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Old January 25, 2018, 01:14   #1
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Would Rural Areas Be Safer In A SHTF Situation?

Would Rural Areas Be Safer In A SHTF Situation?



Leaving the city when supplies and infrastructure are shut down would work only up to a point. Rural areas are like anywhere else. They have infrastructure designed to service a certain number of people that normally live there. The housing, restaurants, roadways, water systems and grocery stores will only handle a small excess of people even in the best of times. When the city dwellers suddenly evacuate to the rural areas in mass, they will simply be taking many of their big city problems with them. They will likely find no housing, food supplies or other infrastructure they need to live.

Continued: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...shtf-situation
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Old January 25, 2018, 11:31   #2
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What they will find are a bunch of country boys who will happily cull them like coyote or deer eating their crops without remorse. Very few city dwellers are accustomed to shooting something 200 yards away in the corn field, or getting in the chicken house. They will not over run the resources but will mostly die unless bring a real skill set including the negotiating skills to convince farmer Brown from killing them before get in talking distance. Few rural farmers will be friendly long when city folk start over running the family farm been tending five generations disturbing fields and livestock. Be no different than culling varmints, just have to keep a trench dug with the backhoe to roll bodies in and cover with a little dirt as need.
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Old January 25, 2018, 13:08   #3
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What they will find are a bunch of country boys who will happily cull them like coyote or deer eating their crops without remorse. Very few city dwellers are accustomed to shooting something 200 yards away in the corn field, or getting in the chicken house. They will not over run the resources but will mostly die unless bring a real skill set including the negotiating skills to convince farmer Brown from killing them before get in talking distance. Few rural farmers will be friendly long when city folk start over running the family farm been tending five generations disturbing fields and livestock. Be no different than culling varmints, just have to keep a trench dug with the backhoe to roll bodies in and cover with a little dirt as need.
Them city folks have far greater numbers, and I won't be counting on most country folks being able to shoot worth much of a good goddamn at any considerable range, especially when the pressure is on. Being out in the sticks allows one some standoff space and greater potential for unassing the area, but it also nicely isolates.
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Old January 25, 2018, 13:15   #4
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I'm with Huey on this one.
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Old January 25, 2018, 14:33   #5
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Going with Lew on this one, city people will be coming in massive waves, in full panic and chaos mode, anything that gets out in front of that mob will be run over by sheer weight of volume.

Being away from population centers gives all of us a little extra time to get ready, go to ground, take care of protecting our stashes, but taking on a huge mob of starving people with zero hope, is a fools error. There are a lot of guns in cities and they have a lot of stone cold killers who won't hesitate to gun down anyone.

Ya get caught up facing these city mobs, hurt them hard and fast, then get out of their way and allow mother nature to reduce their numbers.

Several million people on the move at one time, in one small location, on a few roads, I'd rather face off on Sir Charles, in the wire face to face at midnight, in a driving rain storm.
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Old January 25, 2018, 14:41   #6
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Going with Lew on this one, city people will be coming in massive waves, in full panic and chaos mode, anything that gets out in front of that mob will be run over by sheer weight of volume.

Being away from population centers gives all of us a little extra time to get ready, go to ground, take care of protecting our stashes, but taking on a huge mob of starving people with zero hope, is a fools error. There are a lot of guns in cities and they have a lot of stone cold killers who won't hesitate to gun down anyone.

Ya get caught up facing these city mobs, hurt them hard and fast, then get out of their way and allow mother nature to reduce their numbers.

Several million people on the move at one time, in one small location, on a few roads, I'd rather face off on Sir Charles, in the wire face to face at midnight, in a driving rain storm.
^^^^ Exactly this
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Old January 25, 2018, 14:46   #7
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It'll start like this:



Then this:

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Old January 25, 2018, 14:49   #8
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The big issue I foresee is the gangs getting organized, and becoming a roving band of brigands. They'll be a real problem for us in the rural areas, as they'll have more men and weapons. The only real solution in such a instance would be ambushing the group to do as much damage as possible, and not waiting for them to arrive at your door.
This brings up the problem of organizing your neighbors into a form of small militia, which in itself would be a real challenge in most areas. Most in my AO are the sort to help each other in times of need, everyone always holds the door for each other at businesses, and says please and thank you. At least the originals do, the California transplants are a bunch of arrogant pricks who move in and promptly begin telling everyone how to live and think. I predict they'll be the first to go under. The rest here are not the sort to become professional killers over night, even to defend their homes and families.
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Old January 25, 2018, 14:58   #9
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questions should be asked from both sides. If raiders were operating out of a rural farm house could you put together a team to wipe them out? Lots of questions to be asked when a scenario is put together. Which big city is closest to the rural area? How much drinking water is available? What are the roads like, can your farm be driven to? Fire protection? Are the walls fortified against 50 cal rounds? Trenches to divert traffic?

Does the farm produce 3100 calories a day for each person there? Ponds to raise fish, river as natural barrier? Just opinion but there are lots of ways to measure the survival.
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Old January 25, 2018, 15:56   #10
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Blackblade, did you really feel the need to put this on both forums?

http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=332926
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Old January 25, 2018, 15:58   #11
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The big issue I foresee is the gangs getting organized, and becoming a roving band of brigands. They'll be a real problem for us in the rural areas, as they'll have more men and weapons. The only real solution in such a instance would be ambushing the group to do as much damage as possible, and not waiting for them to arrive at your door.
This brings up the problem of organizing your neighbors into a form of small militia, which in itself would be a real challenge in most areas. Most in my AO are the sort to help each other in times of need, everyone always holds the door for each other at businesses, and says please and thank you. At least the originals do, the California transplants are a bunch of arrogant pricks who move in and promptly begin telling everyone how to live and think. I predict they'll be the first to go under. The rest here are not the sort to become professional killers over night, even to defend their homes and families.
Every situation would be different in my opinion. Mike lives in Florence on the coast which in reality won't have a problem with waves of people because the roads will plug shortly after the ball drops. I worked contracts on the coast and those folks who live there love the money tourist bring in but despise the tourist. I doubt the people who live over there would allow the roads to be open and there are few roads to access the oregon coast.

Same with central oregon, it wouldn't take much to block the roads so waves of people couldn't pass. So imagine if Portland couldn't evacuate, if the valley couldn't get out of the valley. One rock slide up at about Hoodoo and one on Hwy 58 and one bridge plugged at Madras and you could keep hundreds of thousands out.
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Old January 25, 2018, 16:08   #12
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At first the rural areas will be quite safe, then as people get desperate the rural areas will be become much more dangerous. Gangs will become more organized. You only have to look at FERFAL's experiences in Argentina to see how reality played out. You want to fight off organized gangs assemble and train your army today!
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Old January 25, 2018, 16:18   #13
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Just be ready when you see the smoke...



...coming from a metropolis near you!
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Old January 25, 2018, 16:29   #14
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Would Rural Areas Be Safer In A SHTF Situation?

Safer for who those that own property on the rural areas or those that come in from the urban areas seeking refuge and or to plunder those that have established homes in the rural areas ?

I live in a rural area and own firearms and heavy equipment as in earth digging equipment like backhoes.

Yall come on up!!! lol.
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Old January 25, 2018, 16:39   #15
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.....................
Same with central oregon, it wouldn't take much to block the roads so waves of people couldn't pass. So imagine if Portland couldn't evacuate, if the valley couldn't get out of the valley. One rock slide up at about Hoodoo and one on Hwy 58 and one bridge plugged at Madras and you could keep hundreds of thousands out.
Dammit, Jim, you gave away our grand plan !


Missed you at the meetings lately.





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Old January 25, 2018, 17:02   #16
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Dammit, Jim, you gave away our grand plan !


Missed you at the meetings lately.





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I was meeting with the tribe to keep the white man from comming through the reservation. Big trees make wonderful roadblocks..
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Old January 25, 2018, 17:07   #17
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Every situation would be different in my opinion. Mike lives in Florence on the coast which in reality won't have a problem with waves of people because the roads will plug shortly after the ball drops. I worked contracts on the coast and those folks who live there love the money tourist bring in but despise the tourist. I doubt the people who live over there would allow the roads to be open and there are few roads to access the oregon coast.
I thoroughly expect the roads to the coast to go down quickly....even with just the lack of constant maintenance they won't last long. A bit of help from the locals and most of the OR coast will be darned difficult to access. Lots of bridges, tunnels, grades and trees that could cause issues.

Really our big threat for refugees here would be from the Eugene /Springfield area, a bit over an hour by car on a good day with no road problems...
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Old January 25, 2018, 17:16   #18
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I would hope so. That's why I moved out to the the middle of nowhere.
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Old January 25, 2018, 17:21   #19
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I thoroughly expect the roads to the coast to go down quickly....even with just the lack of constant maintenance they won't last long. A bit of help from the locals and most of the OR coast will be darned difficult to access. Lots of bridges, tunnels, grades and trees that could cause issues.

Really our big threat for refugees here would be from the Eugene /Springfield area, a bit over an hour by car on a good day with no road problems...
Ya I know some folks from the Coast and they have chain saws once the flow stops there won't be many who could make it on foot. I have repaired roads over there and they wash out on a regular basis. Plus there are communities like Powers that even the women will kick your ass.
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Old January 25, 2018, 17:25   #20
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I would hope so. That's why I moved out to the the middle of nowhere.
Hope you have a plan..
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Old January 25, 2018, 17:32   #21
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Safer for who those that own property on the rural areas or those that come in from the urban areas seeking refuge and or to plunder those that have established homes in the rural areas ?

I live in a rural area and own firearms and heavy equipment as in earth digging equipment like backhoes.

Yall come on up!!! lol.
Yep I live out in the middle of nowhere.Good luck getting thru my browning 1919a4
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Old January 25, 2018, 17:44   #22
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Safer for who those that own property on the rural areas or those that come in from the urban areas seeking refuge and or to plunder those that have established homes in the rural areas ?

I live in a rural area and own firearms and heavy equipment as in earth digging equipment like backhoes.

Yall come on up!!! lol.
A Dozier would be a fine piece of equipment to build with, it moves spoil real quick. Give me a high track D6 and I can build a protecting wall and clear a killing field.
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Old January 25, 2018, 19:54   #23
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One of biggest contributors to mayhem will be more than half the country coming off their meds of all types.
Urban or rural, gonna be brutal.
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Old January 25, 2018, 19:58   #24
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The big issue I foresee is the gangs getting organized, and becoming a roving band of brigands. They'll be a real problem for us in the rural areas, as they'll have more men and weapons. The only real solution in such a instance would be ambushing the group to do as much damage as possible, and not waiting for them to arrive at your door.
This brings up the problem of organizing your neighbors into a form of small militia, which in itself would be a real challenge in most areas. Most in my AO are the sort to help each other in times of need, everyone always holds the door for each other at businesses, and says please and thank you. At least the originals do, the California transplants are a bunch of arrogant pricks who move in and promptly begin telling everyone how to live and think. I predict they'll be the first to go under. The rest here are not the sort to become professional killers over night, even to defend their homes and families.
Find yourself a retired grunt with combat experience, hook your fingers into his belt loops and hang on for dear life until you and the others learn.

Everyone becomes a stone cold killer, some overnight, when its called for.
The newbies are just not that effective at it or very quick on the up take at first, but if they survive for a few weeks or encounters, motivation to survive, protect their families and a no non sense asshole with experience will get a lot of folks through the early learning stages.

IF, people will listen, do exactly what they are told to do, as if a fire is lit up their asses.
The ones that won't will become worm bait, happens every damn time.

I like people, as a rule, I really do like everyone, as a rule of thumb.

This shit kicks off for real, as my wife says, I get that "ugly ass face" in place whenever concerned about safety and security.
My tolerance for any bull shit becomes zero from anyone, and anyone that appears ready to do anything stupid, that could harm me or mine becomes my enemy.
Anyone!

People you know will seek out anyone that appears able to help keep them alive for another day, and it really all comes down to the right mind set and attitude.
People will flock to those that can do this. They always do.

Be able to flip the switch from normal to insane, you'll and many others will be fine.
Tha hard part is turning off the insane self when things calm down.

I had a skinny black SSgt from Chicago keep me alive for a few weeks, until I got my mind right.
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Old January 25, 2018, 20:02   #25
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Would Rural Areas Be Safer In A SHTF Situation?


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Old January 25, 2018, 20:05   #26
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Worst part will be disease control / burial detail.


..............
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Old January 25, 2018, 20:06   #27
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A large enough SHTF, no where will be safe.
If you think your farmhouse will be safe, you are wrong.
You may live a little longer but the result will be the same for 80% of the population. Dead.
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Old January 25, 2018, 20:09   #28
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Worst part will be disease control / burial detail.


..............
Heavy equipment is your friend.
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Old January 25, 2018, 20:17   #29
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Local chicken farmer do business with was complaining about coyotes getting in his chicken houses across the lake from his house. From his front porch it's about 250 yards to far end of pond and 600 yards to treeline with rows of chicken houses. One coyote gets in a house and it will kill over 100 chickens just to be doing. Said he was having problem's with them and missing way more than hit.

Went to his place and sat on the porch drinking ice tea and talking bout farming, motorcyles, antique tractors and guns. Three coyote came out during the afternoon and evening, each of which I zapped them with my range finder and based on under or over 400 yards would enter the distance and wind into shooting App, pick up my 22-250 Ackley Improved or 6XC and drop the coyote dead. He has some nice guns, collection of over 100 long guns but no dedicated precision long rifles.

We ordered him a Tikka T3X CTR 6.5 Creed morewith 20" barrel and factory threaded for a suppressor. Set a Vortex Viper PST 5-25x first focal plane scope on top and added a Yankee Hill Titanium Phantom suppressor. We sighted it in at 100 and 200 yards, printed him up some bullet drop and wind drift charts then staked his field of fire. Other side of lake drove a line of color coded stakes at 300, 350, 400, 450 and 500 yards. Also added a T3X CTR 6.5cm 20" barrel. Final addition was an new chair on his porch in the form of a Caldwell Deadshot ChairPod which really helps him concentrate on the shot, rifle is cradled nice and steady so all he has to do is break the trigger cleanly.

Whichever stake coyote is standing closet to or between and the annenometer we bought him he dials up his dope from his charts, takes a seat in his ChairPod and cracks a shot. Between the distance and the can the coyote don't always realize they are being shot at immediately when he misses. He says now he has a few first shot hits and 50% to 60% kill ratio. It's been about a year and gone from seeing coyote trying to get in chicken houses daily to occasionally due to quite a few dead and them learning that his farm is not a safe haven anymore. Turned a redneck deer hunter into a long distance varmint killer with proper equipment and a little training.

I don't think some people have a real appreciation of the hardware some hillbilly/redneck/rural farm boys have. There is a man a few miles north of me on same road that raises cattle. He now owns two Colt 45-70 Gatlin Guns and buys 45-70 by the pallet. Know south Georgia farmers that have learned guiding and leasing land for deer hunting is big business. Good businessmen learn best way to make money or if their soybean fields are being destroyed by deer learn how to eliminate them. Been on more than one south Georgia bean field in an elevated blind with heat and we'll placed shooting rests where custom 7mm Practicals, 338 Lapuas, CheyTac's and more.

A couple of men in such a blind or the right front porch could sit and zap hungry and smelly city dwellers like a couple of good men hunting prarie dogs out west. From rear of my house if leaves are off the trees my 6XC's could take turns so barrely didn't overheat and keep a 600 yard stand off distance with little issue. Unless we're to go up in my 55 foot bucket truck terrain does not allow me a shot more than 600 yards due to terrain. There is a pretty hefty crew of men showing up at local matches down in Swainsboro, Elberton, Rutherfordton, Ferguson, Piedmont plus a host of shoots hosted in Alabama that see enough F-class, heavy and light benchrest competators that come from all over the southeast many from farm country them city folk wouldn't even be able to see where the bullets were coming from to return fire. Sorry, but I know a host of rural farm boys that spend their free time working their 600 and 1,000 yard ranges with deadly accuracy.

Guy one county north has a roll up door in back of his "gun building" that opens up to a 500 yard test range and seen him shoot ten rounds all touching to curse words about going to have to touch up throat as barrel is losing its accuracy. He has about 400 to 800 yards of pasture surrounding his house and nothing wanders through unless he allows it. Know an entire family about 20 minutes up the road with over 50 custom long range rigs and ability to use them. From grandfather down to grand kids they practice regularly out to 1,000 yards and the great grands are shooting rimfire and Hornet's into half MOA groups while still in grade school. Y'all must hang out with a different group of farmers and hillbillies than I do but the herds are going to get culled quickly when get this far north of Atlanta. Crap, we will be calling shots and spotting each other using ham radio to determine who has best angle and arguing over whose turn it is.
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Old January 25, 2018, 20:18   #30
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At first the rural areas will be quite safe, then as people get desperate the rural areas will be become much more dangerous. Gangs will become more organized. You only have to look at FERFAL's experiences in Argentina to see how reality played out. You want to fight off organized gangs assemble and train your army today!
QFT
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Old January 25, 2018, 20:29   #31
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Keep after it (them) Huey!
Two Colt Gatling's is pretty impressive.


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Old January 25, 2018, 20:36   #32
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Huey, coyotes don't shoot back.
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Old January 26, 2018, 00:19   #33
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Huey, coyotes don't shoot back.
Lol,,,that reminds me of; If deer carried guns, no deer hunters would ever return home...
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Old January 26, 2018, 00:35   #34
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Find this guy below, if things ever fall apart.

Been through hard times, but still up right.LOL

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Old January 26, 2018, 00:47   #35
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A large enough SHTF, no where will be safe.
If you think your farmhouse will be safe, you are wrong.
You may live a little longer but the result will be the same for 80% of the population. Dead.
100% of us will end up dead someday....it's inevitable...all we can do is delay the imminent. I'm not afraid to check out but I sure as hell don't plan on being a victim
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Old January 26, 2018, 01:02   #36
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"Find yourself a retired grunt with combat experience,"
Yeah, that'd be me. Most everyone else about is retired, at least twenty years older, and not about to go on patrol or lay ambush. They'll end up firing from there homes, till they get burned out. There're a few my age and a bit younger that could hold out, likely longer than I can due to my age. Not going to worry about it till things start looking worse than they do now.
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Old January 26, 2018, 02:11   #37
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"Find yourself a retired grunt with combat experience,"
Yeah, that'd be me. Most everyone else about is retired, at least twenty years older, and not about to go on patrol or lay ambush. They'll end up firing from there homes, till they get burned out. There're a few my age and a bit younger that could hold out, likely longer than I can due to my age. Not going to worry about it till things start looking worse than they do now.
I figured you were one of us.
I used to worry about this, but then, hell, decided to leave it up to G-D and his will.
Now I sleep better far at night.
I'm sure the arms are taken care of, lay in a little extra grub. then sit back, those that can survive will find you.
About all we can really do right now.
Ain;t no one going to listen until they have too.
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Old January 26, 2018, 07:47   #38
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Move up north. The first winter will take care of most of the problem.
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Tempus Edax Rerum
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Old January 26, 2018, 07:59   #39
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Just be ready when you see the smoke...

...coming from a metropolis near you!
Avenues of Approach + Choke Points.



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Find this guy below, if things ever fall apart.
Weren't you the one bitching and whining in another thread that heads on pikes were unkosher or somesuch?

This is how you mark the far side of an abatis, kids.

This thread needs music.

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Old January 26, 2018, 11:31   #40
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"Find yourself a retired grunt with combat experience,"
Yeah, that'd be me. Most everyone else about is retired, at least twenty years older, and not about to go on patrol or lay ambush. They'll end up firing from there homes, till they get burned out. There're a few my age and a bit younger that could hold out, likely longer than I can due to my age. Not going to worry about it till things start looking worse than they do now.
Next door neighbors both sons have moved home after multiple tours in Iraq and Afganistan. Two doors up other direction is house where two brothers with multiple tours in Iraq. Four miles north is a Marine Corp Armorer who not only kept M4's and SAW's running built and tested lots of specialty rifles for Force Recon. He did one tour as grunt before reenlisting and changing MOS from grunt to armorer. All of these guys know well and are under 40. Know half a dozen Vietnam Vets within a few miles that still get around o.k. and three Somoli vets. Have three retired Army Rangers within rifle range of house that speak little of missions but have recently retired mostly due to bad backs. One fell out of helicopter in Afganistan and other two was cumulative damage from decades of humping rucksack and staying alive.

Mix these guys with the heavy collectors and regular shooters and hunters around me and it will be a dangerous place for the interlopers. Thanksgiving morning seven different people shot deer within sight of my house around our cove. One friend shot three from my deck and several guys shot two or more that morning. It was a killing spree for about an hour following sunrise. I do not think the gang bangers with Glocks held "movie style" and AK's will hold up under locals that know the terrain and will band together. Not a weekend goes by we don't hear gunfire close to us not counting ours.

I am not the only person in close surrounding area with fair amount of armor, guns, stockpiles of ammo and ham radio. It's actually suprising how many people think the same but there are more working farms and livestock on my road than people. At least half the people I know hunt or are ex military plus we have the lake as a buffer that blocking the bridges and nobody gets near without walking through the debris strewn bridge or navigating water. I choose location of my home with great care along with construction, immediate terrain and neighbors.

There is not a single "subdivision" inside of two miles. Just farms with road frontage and lake frontage dotted with homes but no dense populations really close. Enough people to support each other but hopefully not so many we will be attacking each other though within 24 hours of "event horizon" intend to burn three homes nearby and make sure no occupants survive. Know others with similar plans in other areas to purge the people know will be a problem better dealt with sooner than later. The few "rental" houses with trashy people will get scrubbed fast. I know several others who think the same and we will likely aid each other clean up any problem areas.

In SHTF scenario some people will take the skills they learned shooting coyote and deer and switch it up. So coyote don't shoot back. How many people running from urban areas can engage people behind good cover from over 200 yards effectively? I sometimes wonder if any will make it the five miles from closest big road all the way to my house. May be pretty quiet around here. Know people either side of me that intend to block roads and bridges immediately as feel we are safer without easy ingress.

Hanging out behind the gunsmith counter and sales counter of LGS it's amazing the number of people who put addresses in general vicinity of my house on their 4473's. Make it a point to strike up conversation, especially power buyers of top line equipment. Two weeks ago new guy came in, purchased two $900 Vortex scopes (sold at deal with military discount) and two turnbolts with suppressor adaptor to fit threads. Turned out recently retired Army with 20 years in, age 39 and was sniper with tours in Iraq and Afganistan. Trying to best duplicate rigs used inside his budget. His address put him 3.5 miles from my house and again, networked and invited him to use my farm to sight in his rifles.
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Old January 26, 2018, 12:53   #41
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Again, if you think you can't be beaten put yourself in the bad guys shoes and think about how you would assault the farm. Just because folks live in town it doesn't mean they can't shoot and it certianly doesn't mean they are stupid. An attack by stealth will slowly whittle down un replaceable defenders. Add in mechanized attacks by bringing in armour from some of that given to our cops by the government and it doesn't matter how good you can shoot.

Not saying there is no chance of survival but any defensive plan better cover a number of threats.
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Old January 26, 2018, 14:14   #42
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[QUOTE=Story;4531530]Avenues of Approach + Choke Points.

Weren't you the one bitching and whining in another thread that heads on pikes were unkosher or somesuch?


Oh hell no, just that they stink and mama's don;t like stink and if mama ain;t happy, you won;t be happy and you won;t eat good!

What's tha fun in there being in war here at home, if ya ain;t eating good and getting some every night???

If heads need posting, post them suckers, just check wind direction and maybe move them out a bit from mama. tha kids, and old people.

Now if ya really want to have a fashion statement, an old X frame and a very sharp knife sends one hell of a message, and might takes days to stop wailing, that verbal component of don;t fug up around here, for all the auditory learners in the crowd, works well too.

So long as the dogs have been feed recently!
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Old January 26, 2018, 14:14   #43
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And keep in mind the city people will be ransacking every gun shop and sporting goods store ASAP as soon as things hit the critical loot and burn stage.

They will be well armed and supplied with ammo, and will have great numbers.

Now, whether they will stay where they know they can rule (burned out cities) or try to push into rural areas is up for debate. But they have to pass through the suburbs first, and suburbs are going to be house to house fighting scenarios that should really thin their numbers greatly. On both sides really.

All tolled, you are better off out in the boonies. Especially in thick/rugged country.

open plains...not so much.
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Old January 26, 2018, 14:31   #44
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If folks really wish to survive damn near anything, just dig a hole, load the bottom with enough food and water for 2 or three weeks, crawl into the hole, pull a poncho over the top of the hole and take a nap.

Place your hole out a couple hundred yards away from normal foot traffic, city or otherwise, and just keep ya head down.

The chances of being seen, found are all about zero.

If ya ain't moving, making noise, damn near impossible to find anyone.

2 or 3 weeks, most of the bad shit will be over and done with, get out of hole, wash off, and move out to sunny ventures and find an old woman that cooks good and speaks little.
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Old January 26, 2018, 15:15   #45
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2 or 3 weeks, most of the bad shit will be over and done with, get out of hole, wash off, and move out to sunny ventures and find an old woman that cooks good and speaks little.

Where you gonna find that unicorn?
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Old January 26, 2018, 15:41   #46
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I don't have any idea how long it will take to start or how long it will last. There will be a culling at every time change and by the time the last culling comes around the survivors will be the most dangerous threat out there in my opinion. They will be smart practiced killers with little humanity left in them, kinda like the Mexican drug cartells. That's the worse case scenario.

Depends of course on what the drivers of the event are, the timing of everything will be about what brought on the event. If we are nuked and emp hits then it will be far different timing than an economical collapse, it's the amount of time people will have to think about their condition.

I was at the gunshow and a survivalist had some warning devices that set up with trip wire and fire a shotgun shell. At $30 each they were spendy but I could see many uses for them. I also saw the same device on some YouTube videos.
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Old January 26, 2018, 17:25   #47
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Move up north. The first winter will take care of most of the problem.
That’s what I’m talking ‘bout. We’re up at 6,500’ asl. Let’s see ‘em get up here.
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Old January 26, 2018, 18:21   #48
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Where you gonna find that unicorn?
True, so true, that one might just be a bridge tooooo far!
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Old January 26, 2018, 22:58   #49
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Rural areas will be better off for the first few weeks. Once the supplies are exhausted in the urban zones, they will come. First, refugees fleeing the violence. Hungry and sick. Next, organized and hardened groups of raiders. These will be packing everything they scavenged and wont have much regard for whomever gets in their way. Bad times. But rural folks will have more options.
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Old January 26, 2018, 23:00   #50
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I'll take rural as being overall safer on a full-on grid down scenario for two main reasons.

1. "intelligence drives the fight."

2. "amateurs think tactics, professionals think logistics."

Intel drives the fight, logistics sustains it. Rural inherently creates challenges for the both of those.

Still has hazards, isolation or distance from neighbors makes it easier for being overrun or home invasion. This danger can be mitigated. Too much of Ferfels scenarios seem to be people who underestimated this danger and didn't act accordingly.

Those who will kill to steal, they have to find you out there in the boonies. Where are they going to start looking? Find the target? Lots of logistics involved. Just run around the countryside in a wave of killing or run around at random attacking homes & so forth? "live by the gun, die by the gun"
Word will get out, they'll meet theirs soon enough.

Moving around the woods at night isn't nearly as easy as people think it is.
Gonna scout by daylight? How much time do they have? How good is thier navigational ability and scouting ability?
Again, logistics means people have to be supported to do scout work, raid teams, etc. Then the folks doing that still have to eat, sleep, crap, bathe, etc. A 50 person raiding group? That's 100 meals a day at the bare minimum, every day..... to keep everyone happy. do the math on how much that adds up to.

The criminals nowadays have one major advantage, time. Full-on grid down and that works both ways and this time the average joe doesn't have to spend the vast majority of his time working a job. Now the average joe has time for dealing with other things.

Rural means raiders have to travel to the rural areas. They're coming through the woods on foot? How much experience do they have at such things?
I work out in the woods at night, very damned dark out there. Takes a LOT of time to move quietly, and 'mr no-shoulders' is not your friend under any circumstances....thats just for starters as to whats out there in the woods.

They're gonna use roads & vehicles? A lot of assumptions, no dead vehicles blocking the roads? nobody watching the roads? etc.

Right now people can be complacent and not suffer for it. Under those circumstances people will be forced to change thier mentality.
Culturally rural areas have a much better initial mindset, it won't take long for people to adapt to a situation such as this. No radios? Bicycles and riders to carry warning. the chinese did it during WW2 and were able to get word moved fast enough to give advance warning of japanese air raids to the flying tigers. No reason that can't be duplicated.
Raiding parties? It only takes on person to get out in front of them and get word out of who, where, how many, etc. Raiders will depend on element of surprise & ambush, or hostages. Lose that element of surprise or worse it's reversed on them, they lose.
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