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Old July 06, 2017, 01:18   #1
Dean762
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Sig PE 57 !

Hello fellow board members.

Just thought I would post a pic of my 57. Not many of these were imported and they were comparatively expensive even in the day.

I would appreciate any input or discussion about this rifle. It has had about 2 clips total fired through it. Has original box, accessories, an added mint sling I picked up in CH. The pic just shows the rifle not all the accessories. I might start a thread on the Sig forum, and gun boards also. Quite the attention getter at the range.

Thanks

Dean


Last edited by Dean762; August 19, 2017 at 23:43. Reason: pic
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Old July 06, 2017, 01:26   #2
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You don't see PE-57s changing hands much these days but the last few I've seen seem to have gone for $7-9k, a package like yours may bring slightly more. Nice rifle, good luck
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Old July 06, 2017, 01:51   #3
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You don't see PE-57s changing hands much these days but the last few I've seen seem to have gone for $7-9k, a package like yours may bring slightly more. Nice rifle, good luck

I think 2-3 years back I saw one go on GB for 8K and some change..


A tidbit about them is that they have the same delayed roller blowback system that was the hallmark of both the HK/ G3 and the Mg 42. Fluted chamber and all. When this rifle came out the US was still using the M1 Garand though beginning a transition to the M14.


I will start watching GB too but maybe in the mean time it will make for some interesting discussion.

Last edited by Dean762; July 06, 2017 at 02:02.
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Old July 06, 2017, 02:40   #4
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I owned a SIG-AMT some years back- interesting rifles for sure. You can see the quality in every part.
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Old July 06, 2017, 08:39   #5
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Beautiful rifle, good luck. I haven't the slightest idea what you should ask for it.
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Old July 06, 2017, 10:45   #6
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What caliber?

I collect and love pre ban guns ..Swiss are some of the the ones I dont have as much as I love a Sig 551 I could never swing the 10k or more for a pre ban

Imop I would keep it unless you need the cash ...The firearm market is pretty flat right now I would wait
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Old July 06, 2017, 10:53   #7
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7.5 Swiss would be the caliber. While the market seems flat at the moment, the demand for guns like this (and Russian SVDs, FAMAS, G Series FNs, etc) is always high.
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Old July 06, 2017, 11:52   #8
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Correct it is 7.5 X 55 . Also known by its Swiss military designation as GP11. The Sig Amt was marketed to the Us civilian market in 7.62X51(308). Similar in many ways to the PE but not the same.

Just as a note the Sig PE 57 is the semi auto version of the StGW 57 which was the battle rifle for the Swiss Armee from 1957 till 1990 when it began to be phased out in favor of the STGW 90 or also known as the Sig 550.

The STGW replaced the ever popular with American shooters ,K31.

There was also a Chilean military contract for a 57 variant but the designation escapes me right now I will find out later.

Another side note. When the Swiss soldier retired from service he was awarded his 57 to keep. The main stipulation being that the Weapon was converted from Select fire to semi only. If you notice the white tab on the right side of the receiver it was for quick identification for range masters that the weapon was in semi only mode.

Thank you all for your responses !
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Old July 06, 2017, 13:42   #9
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http://www.gunbroker.com/item/640226591

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/636506737

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/660940683
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Old July 06, 2017, 13:55   #10
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Dean,

No need to post elsewhere--- the last SIG PE-57 sold for $9.4K (excellent condition), without the box--- so, I would valuate at $9.5K- $10.5K!!!
Can you PM me the serial and importer, as I am trying to determine how many are in the United States.

Tony
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Old July 06, 2017, 13:56   #11
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Not factory--- a DSA build!!!

Tony
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Old July 06, 2017, 14:17   #12
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Not factory--- a DSA build!!!

Tony
Everyone take notice, DSA built SIG PE57, sold for $6,126 April 2017 on Gun Broker.
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Old July 06, 2017, 15:06   #13
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Quote:
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Dean,

No need to post elsewhere--- the last SIG PE-57 sold for $9.4K (excellent condition), without the box--- so, I would valuate at $9.5K- $10.5K!!!
Can you PM me the serial and importer, as I am trying to determine how many are in the United States.

Tony


PM sent
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Old July 06, 2017, 15:57   #14
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PM sent
PM/email to you!!!

Tony
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Old July 06, 2017, 17:31   #15
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More pics.





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Old July 06, 2017, 18:39   #16
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Beautiful Rifle!
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Old July 06, 2017, 19:04   #17
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Thanks for the additional pics!!!
Questions:

1. Is "7.5" marked anywhere?
2. Did you check the importer markings and underneath the buttstock (per email)?

Tony
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Old July 06, 2017, 22:54   #18
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SIG-AMT/pe57/550/551

I have been lucky enough to get the PE57 in 1973 and a AMT in 1975 also the STG57 in later years, Than they came out with the 550 and the 551 either of which could be had for under $2000 in the US . The US available version STG57 was originally select fire in Switzerland but they changed one part to the internal trigger pack that converted the rifle to semi only..This what they did to the rifles the Swiss retirees had done to their rifles before they werre transferred to them.along with a additional stamping to the S/n on the receiver only Not to get flameing to turn but that part can be re installed in the AMT/pe57 and you would be out of compliance big time.
In the 1970's their were Swiss Postal Matches but you had to use a PE57 in 7.5 Swiss. In Southern Calif around 1977 the Swiss Embassy made that ammunition available, it was 120 rounds and it might have been free if you signed up for the mail in match. if not free very minimal cost Cant remember it was over 40 years ago, Boy have the times changed
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Old July 07, 2017, 08:43   #19
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If you notice in the pic showing the left side of the receiver there is a lever protruding forward of the pistol grip. That is the winter trigger for use with gloves. Fast and easy deployment and out of the way when not needed. In the pic showing the top of the chamber area you will see a dot above the Swiss crest. That is a loaded chamber indicator which protrudes upwards when there is a round in the chamber.

Another item it took me some notice is that the flash hider is not threaded on it is literally machined from the same steel as the barrel and they are integral.

Last edited by Dean762; July 07, 2017 at 09:08.
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Old July 07, 2017, 10:01   #20
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Well no they did not automatically award these rifles to retirees from national service. You had to apply to keep it and as stated, have it modified to semi auto.

When I was in Switzerland in 1995, these rifles were still in heavy use by reservists and it was cool to see them in action. The STG 90 had not yet taken over completely. At least in the german part of Switzerland I was in, there are ranges everywhere and plenty of shooting going on. It's not uncommon to be driving along and hear pow, pow, pow and look over and see a range right next to the road.

Funny enough present day in Switzerland last I looked at prices at various gun shops you could pick these guns up for $300-350 all day long.
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Old July 07, 2017, 10:32   #21
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Well no they did not automatically award these rifles to retirees from national service. You had to apply to keep it and as stated, have it modified to semi auto.

When I was in Switzerland in 1995, these rifles were still in heavy use by reservists and it was cool to see them in action. The STG 90 had not yet taken over completely. At least in the german part of Switzerland I was in, there are ranges everywhere and plenty of shooting going on. It's not uncommon to be driving along and hear pow, pow, pow and look over and see a range right next to the road.

Funny enough present day in Switzerland last I looked at prices at various gun shops you could pick these guns up for $300-350 all day long.
I was there in 84 and it must have been when the reservists were engaged in maneuver's cause they were everywhere. On the trains they took there weapons on and if memory serves that sometimes they were not in uniform but they had their 57s tucked next to them. They were still wearing Ord 49 uniforms and it looked like a scene from bygone days when European soldiers wore there dress tunics to war. They also had Alpenflage uniforms that were set up specifically for the 57.

Thanks for clarifying the transfer procedure to soldiers upon retirement.

Back then the CH gun shops had a lot of surplus Swiss weapons . a lot of Schmidt Rubins. Retirees that pass on with their service weapons in an estate and the family's often sell them to dealers. I cant remember what the prices were, but I had a BAD case of the wants when I went in one so I pretty much stayed out of them.

I sure got sick of Fondue though.
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Old July 07, 2017, 11:28   #22
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There was also a Chilean military contract for a 57 variant but the designation escapes me right now I will find out later.
The Swiss StGw-57 was the SIG 510-1.

The Chilean and Bolivian rifles were the SIG 510-4, which was in 7.62x51mm NATO. The SIG AMT (510-7) was the semi-auto version of the 510-4 imported into this country, made possible by removing the barrel swells (for launching grenades) and removing the integral muzzle device of the 510-4 and importing them with a threaded muzzle (most of which were shipped into the country with a FN49 type muzzle brake). Also, the bayonet retainer was removed from the bottom of the front sight base. This was all done to work around the stupid importation requirements of the time.

It came with steel 20rd straight magazines (unlike the curved 24rd aluminum magazines of the StGw-57. The StGw-57 magazines will fit in the SIG 510-4 (and SIG AMT) and will usually function, holding 26rds of 7.62mm NATO.

To work around Swiss export laws, the Bolivian and Chilean rifles were made in Italy (probably by Breda, I'm thinking, but it's been a while since I've checked that info), but the SIG AMT rifles were made in Switzerland by SIG. There are conflicts in print about how many of the SIG AMT rifles came into the country, one source claiming 550, but that might have been total number manufactured for worldwide distribution. Some sources claim that a second small batch was imported, but it remains unclear.

The SIG AMT that I have was purchased from one of the importers in 1978. It remains LNIB with the crap that came with it, and I picked up several additional parts for it (and magazines too) over the years, including a brand new SIG 510-4 barrel (still in the tube) from DSA when DSA was selling kits and other parts.

The book value (Blue-book) on these rifles is suspect. Recent editions show a 100% gun around $5500 (and the PE-57 in 7.5x55mm at $8000). I took that from the 35th edition, but I don't think that it's changed much these past few years. I wouldn't even consider selling mine for less than $10,000 (of course, I'm not interested in selling it, so take that into account ) and, if I had a PE-57, it would be even more. This for 100% original guns in 100% condition, of course...

I have seen a few of the SIG AMTs and the PE-57s over the years. Generally, the PE-57s are in excellent shape, most shot (or carried) little. The SIG AMT is somewhat of a different story since it was chambered in a 'cheap' and plentiful cartridge in the US. In addition, Mel Tappan pushed the AMT heavily in his survivalist writings (for example, Survival Guns) and many survivalist 'groups' of the time bought them and played soldier (er, I mean trained, of course) with them. Consequently, 100% guns are somewhat rare.

For 'cheap' stamped receiver guns, both the SIG AMT and PE-57 are beautifully made rifles. And, since they were sort of designed to serve a LMG role too, they are heavy...

The PE-57 here looks as beautiful as all do...

Forrest

PS If memory serves, I think that the Bolivian and Chilean contracts for the SIG 510-4 were for a few thousand rifles each.
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Old July 08, 2017, 14:31   #23
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I was there in 84 and it must have been when the reservists were engaged in maneuver's cause they were everywhere. On the trains they took there weapons on and if memory serves that sometimes they were not in uniform but they had their 57s tucked next to them. They were still wearing Ord 49 uniforms and it looked like a scene from bygone days when European soldiers wore there dress tunics to war. They also had Alpenflage uniforms that were set up specifically for the 57.

Thanks for clarifying the transfer procedure to soldiers upon retirement.

Back then the CH gun shops had a lot of surplus Swiss weapons . a lot of Schmidt Rubins. Retirees that pass on with their service weapons in an estate and the family's often sell them to dealers. I cant remember what the prices were, but I had a BAD case of the wants when I went in one so I pretty much stayed out of them.

I sure got sick of Fondue though.
Were you able to determine the import markings, and the marking under the rubber buttstock???

Tony
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Old July 08, 2017, 14:48   #24
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The Swiss StGw-57 was the SIG 510-1.

The Chilean and Bolivian rifles were the SIG 510-4, which was in 7.62x51mm NATO. The SIG AMT (510-7) was the semi-auto version of the 510-4 imported into this country, made possible by removing the barrel swells (for launching grenades) and removing the integral muzzle device of the 510-4 and importing them with a threaded muzzle (most of which were shipped into the country with a FN49 type muzzle brake). Also, the bayonet retainer was removed from the bottom of the front sight base. This was all done to work around the stupid importation requirements of the time.

It came with steel 20rd straight magazines (unlike the curved 24rd aluminum magazines of the StGw-57. The StGw-57 magazines will fit in the SIG 510-4 (and SIG AMT) and will usually function, holding 26rds of 7.62mm NATO.

To work around Swiss export laws, the Bolivian and Chilean rifles were made in Italy (probably by Breda, I'm thinking, but it's been a while since I've checked that info), but the SIG AMT rifles were made in Switzerland by SIG. There are conflicts in print about how many of the SIG AMT rifles came into the country, one source claiming 550, but that might have been total number manufactured for worldwide distribution. Some sources claim that a second small batch was imported, but it remains unclear.

The SIG AMT that I have was purchased from one of the importers in 1978. It remains LNIB with the crap that came with it, and I picked up several additional parts for it (and magazines too) over the years, including a brand new SIG 510-4 barrel (still in the tube) from DSA when DSA was selling kits and other parts.

The book value (Blue-book) on these rifles is suspect. Recent editions show a 100% gun around $5500 (and the PE-57 in 7.5x55mm at $8000). I took that from the 35th edition, but I don't think that it's changed much these past few years. I wouldn't even consider selling mine for less than $10,000 (of course, I'm not interested in selling it, so take that into account ) and, if I had a PE-57, it would be even more. This for 100% original guns in 100% condition, of course...

I have seen a few of the SIG AMTs and the PE-57s over the years. Generally, the PE-57s are in excellent shape, most shot (or carried) little. The SIG AMT is somewhat of a different story since it was chambered in a 'cheap' and plentiful cartridge in the US. In addition, Mel Tappan pushed the AMT heavily in his survivalist writings (for example, Survival Guns) and many survivalist 'groups' of the time bought them and played soldier (er, I mean trained, of course) with them. Consequently, 100% guns are somewhat rare.

For 'cheap' stamped receiver guns, both the SIG AMT and PE-57 are beautifully made rifles. And, since they were sort of designed to serve a LMG role too, they are heavy...

The PE-57 here looks as beautiful as all do...

Forrest

PS If memory serves, I think that the Bolivian and Chilean contracts for the SIG 510-4 were for a few thousand rifles each.
Beretta manufactured the SIG 510-4 for Chile and Bolivia!!!
On the numbering, I believe the following to be more accurate:

510-0 (submitted to Swiss Federal Council in 1956; approved in 1957; officially designated the Stgw 57 in 7.5);
510-1 (commercial variant, same as Stgw 57, but in different calibers);
510-2 (commercial variant, same as Stgw 57, but lighter and in different calibers);
510-3 (commercial variant, shortened Stgw 57 in 7,62x39, and submitted in Finnish trials);
510-4 (commercial variant, produced by Beretta for Chile/Bolivia in 7.62x51);
510-5 (commercial variant , Mexican Army prototype in .30-06);
510-6 (test batch, based on 510-4, to replace the Stgw 57, but never went into production, as the Stgw 90 was chosen);
510-7 T (export variant in 7,62x51 to Italy; semi-automatic only).

Tony
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Old July 11, 2017, 11:31   #25
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Thanks for the additional pics!!!
Questions:

1. Is "7.5" marked anywhere?
2. Did you check the importer markings and underneath the buttstock (per email)?

Tony
Tony this picture should answer your question. Took a while to get a clear one. Let me know if you have any other questions.

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Old July 11, 2017, 14:05   #26
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Dean,

That is it--- thank you very much!!!

Tony
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Old July 11, 2017, 14:16   #27
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Dean,

That is it--- thank you very much!!!

Tony
You are welcome Sir. Happy to help out a fellow traveler.
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Old July 12, 2017, 21:15   #28
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PE57 my Grail rifle.

If I'm gonna get one, I'll have to get on a plane and go to Switzerland and send a few of them home in parts, would be worth it, Boy, would have a lot of swiss Telescope parts................
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Old July 13, 2017, 06:26   #29
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That Swiss Miss is dreamy... I swear.
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Old July 23, 2017, 10:53   #30
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Dean,

Did you ever place this on the market???

Tony
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Old August 08, 2017, 16:48   #31
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PE57

Very interested in buying. Is this for sale or not. Thanks,
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Old August 08, 2017, 17:52   #32
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Currently not .
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Old August 11, 2017, 11:58   #33
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Anyone else have any PE57 pictures that they would like to share???

Tony
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Old August 20, 2017, 17:52   #34
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Need more PE57 (or AMT) pics!!!

Tony
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Old August 20, 2017, 18:39   #35
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Here's an AMT that was for sale on GB awhile back. This is probably as close to owning one as I'll get.



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Old August 20, 2017, 18:55   #36
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Here's an AMT that was for sale on GB awhile back. This is probably as close to owning one as I'll get.



Is that a factory flash hider ?
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Old August 20, 2017, 18:56   #37
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Need more PE57 (or AMT) pics!!!

Tony
Give me another week or 2 and maybe I can help with this. We will see.
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Old August 20, 2017, 19:32   #38
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Is that a factory flash hider ?
Most were imported with no flash hider, just the threaded barrel. The flash hiders were added by the importers. AGG can expand on this.
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Old August 20, 2017, 19:48   #39
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Oldmanpbk is correct regarding importation without flashiders. As for AMTs- I've noticed that most of the Benet guns (who began importing them in 1969 IIRC) have gilled-type flashiders like the ones pictured above. SIGARMS guns (last of the importers) had the birdcage type. Unsure about Devco, Fed Ordnance, or Mandall guns...or the 5-10 AMTs Katsenes brought in. I moved to Richmond in summer 2009 and was between jobs so I sold mine which was an I fired SIGARMS import. Really regret it now as I was only without a job for a month and could've financially kept it!
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Old August 20, 2017, 20:49   #40
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Most were imported with no flash hider, just the threaded barrel. The flash hiders were added by the importers. AGG can expand on this.
The one that I have (an Ed Klein gun) has this same muzzle device (sort of a knock-off of the Venezuelan FN49 muzzle brake)...

Just sayin'...

Forrest
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Old August 20, 2017, 21:25   #41
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I don't know if these can still be had but this would be my choice for an AMT muzzle attachment.


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File Type: jpg estes adams.jpg (100.7 KB, 38 views)
File Type: jpg amt 1.jpg (57.7 KB, 39 views)
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Old August 20, 2017, 21:38   #42
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I believe the one pictured above is correct to the Swiss military export version.
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Old August 20, 2017, 21:41   #43
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Originally Posted by OLDMANPBK View Post
I don't know if these can still be had but this would be my choice for an AMT muzzle attachment.


If I could find one, I would...

Actually, I have a new SIG 510-4 barrel (DSA used to sell them ), but I've never gotten to the point of rebarreling mine.

This sleeve would make it (the AMT) look like the original SIG 510-4 barrel.

Actually, for 35+ years, my AMT has been wearing one of the Choate devices originally sold as a FAL-type device (five rows of five holes equally spaced, with the holes about 3/16" each). Looks better than the FN49-type device to my eye...

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Old August 20, 2017, 21:45   #44
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A guy by the name of Estes Adams makes or made that brake so you can give your AMT the right look. It seems to be a sleeve that threads onto the barrel.
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Old August 20, 2017, 21:59   #45
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I have seen them before but never had cause to use one since the 57 came in loaded for Bear, but maybe in the near future for an AMT. Is Adams still in the market? Bought some items from him some time ago (a scope mount for the PE) but not recently. I just live a Crows fly away but don't know him personally.

Still no bayonet lug but very cool looking.
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Old August 20, 2017, 22:12   #46
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Originally Posted by OLDMANPBK View Post
A guy by the name of Estes Adams makes or made that brake so you can give your AMT the right look. It seems to be a sleeve that threads onto the barrel.
It's a sleeve that covers the barrel from the front sight base to the muzzle, rendering a barrel that looks like the original SIG 510-4 barrel.

I have tried to turn one up with no luck. If anyone has a current source, please let me know.

The original SIG 510-4 also has a bayonet attachment on the bottom of the front sight base which was milled off on the SIG 510-7 (AMT) to comply with the US importation laws of the time...

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Old August 20, 2017, 22:15   #47
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He sells on GB under the name fg42man.
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Old August 20, 2017, 23:40   #48
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He sells on GB under the name fg42man.
Thanks.

There is a Bill Steele as fg42man too. I'm guessing that this isn't Estes Adams...

I've tried estesadams@hotmail.com (his listed email address in several different places), and that is an undeliverable address. I tried several ways to get in touch with him a few years ago with the same lack of luck.

Is there a way to contact sellers on GB separate from specific items for sale? Nothing came quickly to the eye.

I probably should just go back to GB and try to pick up one of his 'auctions.'

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Old August 20, 2017, 23:42   #49
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And Dean762, sorry for the hijack...

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Old August 21, 2017, 00:18   #50
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Try: sigman@runbox.com and or fg42man@runbox.com.
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