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Old August 23, 2019, 09:37   #1
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Another Barrel Thread 12.5" to 14.7" Pinned to 16"+

In addition to 18" and 20" tack driving poodle shooters as my favorite overall pattern, also like to build shortest legal length rifles possible and of course now AR pistols for truck guns when travel in states that do not allow loaded rifles. This thread is to discuss best barrels along with quality economical barrels for building rifles which with pinned muzzle device hit the magic 16" OAL from bolt face to front edge of muzzle device. For my personal likely to pick up or carry when in situation where may have to go defensive/offensive my short barrels in the 12.5", 13.7" and 14.5"/14.7" tunes are White Oak Armament, Noveske, Criterion, ARP, FNH hammer forged, Ballistic Advantage Performance Series/Performance Series Hanson, Seekings Precision, Craddock Precision, Spikes Tactical and others but that will start the conversation.

In a short/medium length barrel I want to reach 16" but not over 16.5". Also they have to be accurate cold or hot so that first round cold bore shot is not going to have major shift in point of aim after a three to six magazine high speed dump then require a precision shot. Have 12.5" White Oaks that bought on a unadvertised clearance deal profiled from Shilen blanks that if put a higher power optic on them will shoot 3/4 MOA all day long. Same with Noveske/WOA tubes even as short as 10.5" to 11.5" have 10.5" tubes that will run 1 MOA all day with a little work to find what ammo it likes.

I am having a lot of requests for people who want a single AR to be used as a do all tool for a person who only wants to own a single tactical rifle. I build a lot of uppers as time allows and give more away (often complete rifles) than sell. Have not sold a complete AR 15 since Sandy Hook madness and all that I sold were factory built rifles, not personal builds. Yesterday I gave one of my wife's doctors an AR and last week gave one of my doctors a covert bullet resistant vest. Sometimes giving away a few rifles that dont shoot anymore is cheaper than buying more vaults and makes room to build more.

So my main prerequisites for this thread is a durable barrel with at least 5,000 round minimum accurate life span (10,000 preferred), shoots near or sub MOA at 100 yards and does not exceed 14.7" and is at least 12.5" long as no sense in screwing a five inch muzzle device on a 10.5" tube. If want to discuss using with a pinned suppressor then 10.5" and 11.5" barrel is game on for folks that build single stamp SBR's. When asked wife's doctor what he wanted, short and handy or medium length tack driver he was emphatic about compact and easy to maneuver. Going to describe what I gave him in next post but now realize am going to have to hand out a few more as he tells other doctors who have provided a lot of medical care and asked about rifles in past. One doctor of mine wrote off over $10,000 in his fees when auto and health insurance refused to pay all his bills for first 30 days following an MVA.

I plan on handing out at least four or five as visit some of my docs who have done me right to point of giving me their cell numbers in case need them when practice is closed. Also have two cousins mustering out of infantry and done multiple tours by Christmas so may have to build as many of my AR's are too nice to be used as give aways. ARP has been my primary barrel choice at just under $200 on most barrels and shoot very well unless find sales or out the back door deals from distributors or makers.
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Old August 23, 2019, 09:54   #2
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I gave another AR 15 away yesterday to my wife's bone doctor. She has a new bone medicine which costs $3,500 per month (replaces a $2,400 per month older product) and since it's release in April of 2018 he has given her a sample injection pen every month. Her last visit he handed me several as knows we like to have extra back stock in case some event like collapse of society or the only production plant on earth burns to the ground. After the stack he gave me at that visit count now is up to 21 month supply of this medicine given us free thus far plus we still have four months of the $2,400 per pen version stored in medical refrigerator.

Her previous bone specialist retired from private practice and only does drug research now. Mostly Phase 3 human research after a drug has been FDA approved looking for off label applications in which they can be used for other diseases. We didn't pay for any of the high dollar meds he prescribed from 2011 till he got us hooked up with the new guy in January of 2018. Seven years of a $2,400 per month medicine free every month always making sure we had at least six months in stock in event he died in car wreck or was an interruption in supply chain. While he has a nice AR he will hear soon about rifle gave away yesterday so need to get him a gift asap.

We have lots of really good doctors that take good care of us beyond what insurance pays or we can pay out of pocket like the orthopedic surgeon that flew up to Atlanta from Miami as favor to a doctor friend of mine and spent 14.5 hours putting my left leg together when the local on call ortho at hospital and emergency room doc wanted to amputate my left leg just below the knee. I have always given all relatives and friends kids who deployed to Gulf War, Afghanistan, etc a Randall Model 15 Airman combat knife when get their deployment papers and an AR 15 when they muster out.

Asked wife's bone doc if he could pick any AR 15 he wanted off a rack for free what would he want at last appointment. Short and easy to maneuver but still accurate past distance he would likely ever engage a hostile zombie, a 400 yard plus first round cold bore coyote killer or something in between. He said short, easy to maneuver but able to easily hit an exposed zombie out to 250 yards. Before pilfering parts went through my vault of rifles have grown bored with and are just one or two notches below quality of poodle shooters that I would carry as a life or death get it done rifle giving all the bettter choices have to pull from. Have about 18 AR 15's in the "give away" gun safe at present.

Went through the safe and found a poodle shooter with a 13.7" 5.56 BA Hanson melonite performance series barrel and Precision Armament AFAB-556 hybrid brake. (Advanced Flash Arresting Brake) Rifle is built on a SIG upper with Mag Tactical billet magnesium lower and a full length key lock free float forearm that terminates just past flat of device for wrench so all that super cool CNC machining they do on this muzzle device is visible. Not only does the AFB-556 "wow" people that like the tacticool look in its day Truth About Guns blog tested it as doing the second best job of reducing flash while being defined as a muzzle brake of any device in their test of over top six devices which the only device that beat it were NFA suppressors in a 2018 evaluation of premium muzzle devices.

Rifle has a Palmetto Arms M16 bolt carrrier with HPT/MPI Carpenter 158 shot peened premium bolt and measures 16.15" from bolt face to front edge of muzzle device. Has a standard charging handle with extended latch installed to make grabbing the charging a tad easier. Fire control system is a plated milspec trigger group with JP 3.5 Enhanced Reliability spring kit and trip across the Power Custom Hammer and Sear Jig for a 3.9 pound pull. Had a milspec M4 collapsible stock along with the original older Vortex Strike Fire red dot and BUIS sights. Got odd looks walking into docs office with a guitar case and telling check in needed to see doc in his office but she sent me on back as know we have a relationship. This guy owns tens of thousands of dollars in custom over/under scatter guns and garage full of Porsches and a couple Ferraris but acted like handed him the original copy of the Dead Sea Scrolls as explained the features and that it preferred 62 grain ammo for plinking and 69 grain match to 77 grain military ammo. Only thing was he didn't get to keep the custom converted guitar case use for tactical rifles.
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Old August 24, 2019, 02:32   #3
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No fish biting so let's see if anyone wants to discuss gain twist rifling. Notice Bartlein, White Oak Armament, Compass Lake Emgineering and other high end providers are jumping on the progressive twist bandwagon as well as competitors. Will be ordering one soon but looking at a tube that starts as 1:12 twist and finishes at 1:8 at muzzle versus a barrel from same company that starts at 1:14 twist and finishes as 1:6.8 twist at muzzle. Both are cut rifling but interested to see if able to find a gain twist tube in polygonal rifling such as 5R.

Theory is can load rounds much hotter as the lazy twist at beginning of bore allows bullet to slip down bore without excessive pressure giving majority of powder burn while bullet is spinning slower. As pressure spike drops bullet picks up faster spin and allows shooter to stabilize a higher velocity heavy projectile out at longer distances. Apparently people shooting 5.56 service type rifles are able to keep velocity of 77 grain SMKs and 80 to 90 grain VLDs supersonic out past 1,000 yards thus not having them drop through the sound barrier before the 1,000 yard line keeps them more stable and flying more true.

As to short/mid length barrels which my inventory was running low on ordered two different tunes today. First was a 12.5" 5.56 with 5R rifling with 1:18 twist. Also ordered a 14" 6.8 spc II in 1:9 twist. Have mostly 1:11.25 twist, several 1:10 twist and one 11.5" along with an 8.5" with 1:8 twist from Bison which is part of their subsonic line. Have almost given up on subsonic 6.8's and use 458 SOCOM (normally 8.5" tubes) and 7.62◊51 for my subsonic work. This is specifically made to run using the Superlative Arms piston drive kit by its maker as have a 13.7" Noveske with Flaming Pig that makes the magic 16" OAL but using the extra 0.30" so can make my 16" length with an AAC 51T brakeout suppressor adapter.

Did include a request with order for 14" 1:9 tube (usually get modifications with small up charge as most of Advanced Armamenf are made to order anyway) if can cut another 0.30" to 13.7" as will make my 16" OAL with 0.025" of extra length rather than over a quarter inch as my goal is 16.01 to 16.15" OAL on my pinned device rifles. Yes a quarter inch is being anal/OCD but learned with 14.5" and 14.7" tunes by time pin device for project have grown to 17" or slightly more. Entire point of pinning a device is to not give the BATFE any more than their rules say. Can build pistols but been there and done that. An extra 3.2" of tube over my 10.5" pistols is useable length for added velocity and accuracy.

Now to see if can get a gain/progressive twist tube in a short barrel. Also want to try a 1:14 to 1:8 twist gain tube in a 20" to 22" length chambered for 22 Nosler. May actually be able to get that tad bit more velocity to bridge the gap to 22-250 velocity with such an animal. In LGS (been working counter during lunch and after 5pm due to two sick employees since Wednesday) today and was scrolling though pics of my custom built rifles and swaged/modified factory bullets which messed with quite a few folks minds. Last projectile project was pulling tips from 110 grain 6.8 Accubonds, drilling press fit hole to insert two flute 0.125" end mill with shank removed and then using tad of Superglue and swaging die to reseat the polymer tips, ensure projectile is still perfectly round and proper diameter but by all appearance looks like factory Accubond. Would have to x-ray to realize they have a suprise in middle.
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Old August 24, 2019, 07:10   #4
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Everything is a system, a chain of parts that, hopefully, add up to a greater whole.

Progressive twist sound great but there's no way it can ever be a 'game changer'. Too many variables to consider in barrel making and the barrel is just one link in the chain.

There is a common, machine shop equipment/process that is a 'game changer' in barrel making. I'm not going to tell you what that process is. It's very important but, like I previously stated, it's only a link in the chain.
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Old August 24, 2019, 08:33   #5
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Gain twist, Sam Colt is laughing from the grave.
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Old August 24, 2019, 12:38   #6
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Originally Posted by MilsurpMonkey View Post
Gain twist, Sam Colt is laughing from the grave.
Gain twist goes back to flintlocks and matchlocks actually. Just now combines with CNC tolerances, Proper rifling and tolerances rifling it can get you another 100 fps without losing accuracy if playing games shooting paper at 1,000 yards with poodle shooters. That is not really a game changer unless the cartridge your shooting has in past dropped through the transonic zone into subsonic speeds before projectile made it to the target.

Some people can leverage that extra 1/8 MOA into a first place finish rather than a third place finish. Its not going to make a difference in battlefield conditions for 99% of the soldiers though there is that one percent of military snipers that can use an extra 100 to 200 yards of bullet staying supersonic to put an enemy soldier dropping mortar or rocket fire on the 11 Bravos out of their misery.

As said, its a system, keep tweaking every part of the system for a small increase the cumulative effect combined with a well trained shooter could men the difference between dead bogey on first or second shot vs bogey dropping his entire load of mortar rounds and walking away with his tube to do it again when gets a resupply of rounds. I will take every tenth of an inch I can get at 100 yards as it goes exponential as range extends.
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Old August 25, 2019, 08:45   #7
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Gain twist goes back to flintlocks and matchlocks actually. Just now combines with CNC tolerances, Proper rifling and tolerances rifling it can get you another 100 fps without losing accuracy if playing games shooting paper at 1,000 yards with poodle shooters. That is not really a game changer unless the cartridge your shooting has in past dropped through the transonic zone into subsonic speeds before projectile made it to the target.

Some people can leverage that extra 1/8 MOA into a first place finish rather than a third place finish. Its not going to make a difference in battlefield conditions for 99% of the soldiers though there is that one percent of military snipers that can use an extra 100 to 200 yards of bullet staying supersonic to put an enemy soldier dropping mortar or rocket fire on the 11 Bravos out of their misery.

As said, its a system, keep tweaking every part of the system for a small increase the cumulative effect combined with a well trained shooter could men the difference between dead bogey on first or second shot vs bogey dropping his entire load of mortar rounds and walking away with his tube to do it again when gets a resupply of rounds. I will take every tenth of an inch I can get at 100 yards as it goes exponential as range extends.

True, the reason I find it funny was a bit more nuanced. Originally gain twist was used as a means of allowing soft lead to obturate before trying to spin it, and it was a great theory. Unfortunately the results were never anything over what constant rate rifling would give you. Early gain twist in muzzle loaders donít exactly go back to matchlocks by intention. The ďgain twistĒ seen in a very few rare examples has been deemed to be poor quality by the builder, often with several grooves in the same barrel having a slightly different rate from each other. It wasnít really played with in a serious manner until the early 1800s and still offered no advantage. The US ordnance department played with it when going over to the Minnie ball and found that the change in rifling rate was actually smearing the skirts of the ammunition and causing a ďfish taleĒ to appear, along with lead fouling the bore. The first large scale production gain twist arm was then Sam Colts revolver line post Patterson. Canít remember if the walkers used it, but by 1849 it was in the dragoon, through the 1860 army, and I believe the open top 1872, but I donít know if it ever showed up in the SAA. Just from my personal use of them, I canít get an original 1860 to shoot any better than a current Uberti for accuracy (the original is much better in other ways however) with the Uberti having constant rate.

Iím not a player in accuracy games on paper past a few hundred yards, so I canít comment on it with any personal authority. I have to rely on good friends that play those games, a few tried playing with gain twist back when Lija was cutting it, neither were consistently impressed. They seem to have more stock in the 3R barrels they are playing with now. Apparently velocity is up with less of a charge, thin jacket failure is down, and accuracy is consistent and tight.
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Old August 26, 2019, 03:46   #8
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I have several 3R polygonal rifled barrels now while he were bought mainly as experiments. Have a 5R polygonal and/or a six groove button plus four groove cut rifling to run beside each of the 3R barrels. For each 3R tube the comparison barrel is same length, same cartridge, similar if not same profile and except for a couple the 3R were done by same barrel company using same reamers, crowns, etc to match whether 4 groove cut, six groove button rifling and 5R. I haven't had the luxury aka available funds to get all 3R versus rifling style x, y or z always from same lot of blanks or even exact same steel but on a few was able to match even the blanks from same lot before rifling was cut.

Also have a lot of input on the subject from my riflesmith who builds hundreds of light, heavy and F Class rifles. The only thing that seems to really show as a lesser tube is button rifling seems to wear quicker than the others. If barrel is cut by a top notch company from quality blanks the actual type of rifling seems to have little to no influence on accuracy. The old adage "you get what you pay for" seems to hold true when comparing one rifling type to another if as many of the other variables are kept the same as possible.

In mid grade barrels then sometimes can find a rifling type and length that seems to do better. I have found in cartridges like 22 Nosler a $200 3R barrel will shoot better than many other type rifled 22 Noslers but this is when not able to match steel or finish, much less use blanks from same lot. If building a budget long barrel hot rod have had good luck from 3R tubes. Even in 5.56 and 6.8 if shooting 22" or longer barrels with maximum powder charge 3R seems to not complain with fouling or wear quickly. All of this is irrelevant to question posed in OP.

Am looking for mid/lower price barrels to build semi budget and budget short barrel rifles with and pin to 16" with a variety of devices. Noveske and White Oak profile very consistent 12.5" to 14.5"/14.7" tubes but are not budget barrels when using my pocketbook. ARP has a lot of $175 to $225 barrels where abe to get 3R, 5R and other options at times where cartridge, length, finish and other factors are the same except for rifling pattern. Personally with these have grown to prefer their 5R for shot tubes and 3R for long tubes.

I doubt will be buying 12.5" and 13.7" barrels in gain/progressive twist. A handy fighting length rifle is not going to likely benefit from such tricks. My question is still what short barrels people are pinning devices to get 16" with acceptable results to make mid length (out to say 250 to 400 yard) shots when need and do it with a cold or hot bore. Want to build more 16" without it turning into an 18" with muzzle device rifles for myself and as give aways. Handy rifles that will shoot under varied conditions withour breaking the bank. ARP is one of my go to barrels for this if can't find a deal on a quote "premium" blem/mismarked/slightly used/bought but sat a year and never built so sold off bargain. I find a lot of nice barrels in marketplaces of different groups but not a consistent source can order any time or any day just luck of the day barrels. Has to be some consistent $200 tubes other than ARP running around.
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Old August 26, 2019, 09:05   #9
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well there wasnít a single question posed in your initial post. Simply a few anecdotes and a list of demands for barrel characteristics. I wasnít sure if you were asking a question or taking bids for trials.
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Old August 26, 2019, 13:35   #10
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well there wasnít a single question posed in your initial post. Simply a few anecdotes and a list of demands for barrel characteristics. I wasnít sure if you were asking a question or taking bids for trials.
From OP:
Quote:
my main prerequisites for this thread is a durable barrel with at least 5,000 round minimum accurate life span (10,000 preferred), shoots near or sub MOA at 100 yards and does not exceed 14.7" and is at least 12.5" long as no sense in screwing a five inch muzzle device on a 10.5" tube. If want to discuss using with a pinned suppressor then 10.5" and 11.5" barrel is game on for folks that build single stamp SBR's.
Did not pose as a specific question but laid out parameters of what type barrel trying to find and assumed folks would throw out opinions based on results of experience and testing of mid priced barrels that would get the job done. APP is the best $200ish barrel have found but their inventory is never complete. They order a group of barrel x and when run out do not order more till get enough requests to warrant it. If I want barrel x do not want to wait for ARP to order a production run then months for them to be made and shipped.

I can fulfill my requirements any day going to the White Oak Armament or Noveske Web stores but $400 barrels for steel bangers and give away rifles is a bit much. Trying to find a 12.5" barrel that multiple people or one person has built a half dozen of that shoots well for $175 to $225. Same with a 13.7" and a 14.5"/14.7" barrel. Durability, accuracy and average street price in the $200 range without waiting for a clearance sale.

I have purchased a lot in this price range from Palmetto and other similar retailers with mixed results. If pull a muzzle device that's 2.25", 2.75", 3.25", 3.75", etc know exactly which $200 commonly available barrel will shoot 1 MOA and allow me to exceed 16.01" but not exceed 16.5". Have 14.7" barrels that came up to past 17" once added a suppressor adapter or flash can. An extra inch moving through a house or trying to maneuver in the cab of a truck can make a difference. Have a 17" rifle that always hits windshield of truck if try to get from passenger seat to resting on drivers side window sill to snipe a coyote but a 16.10" OAL rifle that swings nicely across top of dash without hitting windshield or A Pillar as go to rest it in window sill. And yes, it's legal to shoot varmints from vehicle where I work like this and keep a sandbag designed to cradle over a vehicle window sill.
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Old August 26, 2019, 14:37   #11
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So Huey, to your OP, if it legally needs to be a rifle I just never saw a reason to go short on barrel but long on muzzle device. Energy is all about barrel length, and a short barrel with a long MD just makes no sense to me. Also, ESPECIALLY if 5.56, a brake is brutal on a barrel that short, and will concussively disable the shooter as much as the target indoors, so something to redirect the blast forward (i.e. a Flashcan) is better, and for all a can is best to me. Of course a can is probably worth giving up some barrel length for, but I'm not a fan of permanently attached types.

As to qualities, I'm a big fan of poly barrels, but see little need for a differing spin rate. It was a thing some years ago, but if it were the bees knees everyone would be doing it. I think a 1:8 poly barrel in about 14.5" with nitriding is about as handy as it gets in 5.56, and would serve your purpose well.

Personally though, if "handy" is the preferred feature, I'm coming down to legal pistol in a shorter barrel still in a caliber that doesn't require a lot of length, so a pistol caliber, or my preference, the BO. My BO pistol is 25" long with a 10.5" barrel, a QD FH for a YHM can, and a tailhook. I have a Redfield Counterstrike Red/Green dot sight with built-in red laser, and a PA 6x magnifier in a swing-away mount. I have taken pigs out to 150yds with it, but it's an excellent room-clearing tool if it needs to be. It stays locked under the back seat of the truck with a 40 rounder in it and 2 30 rounders with it for a nice 101 rounds of "NOT TODAY YOU TERRORIST MOTHER #&%$@*#&()!!!!!!!!!" Those rounds happen to be 125gr Remington Hog Hammers. Excellent on 4-legged vermin, believe to be just as effective on 2-legged types.
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Old August 26, 2019, 15:12   #12
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From OP:


Did not pose as a specific question but laid out parameters of what type barrel trying to find and assumed folks would throw out opinions based on results of experience and testing of mid priced barrels that would get the job done. APP is the best $200ish barrel have found but their inventory is never complete. They order a group of barrel x and when run out do not order more till get enough requests to warrant it. If I want barrel x do not want to wait for ARP to order a production run then months for them to be made and shipped.

I can fulfill my requirements any day going to the White Oak Armament or Noveske Web stores but $400 barrels for steel bangers and give away rifles is a bit much. Trying to find a 12.5" barrel that multiple people or one person has built a half dozen of that shoots well for $175 to $225. Same with a 13.7" and a 14.5"/14.7" barrel. Durability, accuracy and average street price in the $200 range without waiting for a clearance sale.

I have purchased a lot in this price range from Palmetto and other similar retailers with mixed results. If pull a muzzle device that's 2.25", 2.75", 3.25", 3.75", etc know exactly which $200 commonly available barrel will shoot 1 MOA and allow me to exceed 16.01" but not exceed 16.5". Have 14.7" barrels that came up to past 17" once added a suppressor adapter or flash can. An extra inch moving through a house or trying to maneuver in the cab of a truck can make a difference. Have a 17" rifle that always hits windshield of truck if try to get from passenger seat to resting on drivers side window sill to snipe a coyote but a 16.10" OAL rifle that swings nicely across top of dash without hitting windshield or A Pillar as go to rest it in window sill. And yes, it's legal to shoot varmints from vehicle where I work like this and keep a sandbag designed to cradle over a vehicle window sill.

Iím just razzing you. You arenít going to like my recommendation though. To preface it I will say that I donít own the shorter barrels, but do own a 16Ē and have shot the shorter ones a bit through friends. The Faxon gunner stuff is on the lower end of the price with quality spectrum, and the worst shooting one Iíve personally played with was under a 2moa gun. Both the shorts Iíve shot were their factory pinned and welded setups (of those the flash hider version was the most pleasant) but savings can be had by doing the pin and weld yourself as the barrel alone is much more reasonable in price. They shoot well and seem to hold up well to most abuse. Definitely not a barrel for a FA application, but with a standard semi auto trigger setup and actual purpose to your shooting other than mag dumps, I doubt a good trigger finger will ever get one hot enough to affect it when used with a handguard offering decent ventilation. Just my .02
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Old August 26, 2019, 15:43   #13
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I never have seen the supposed accuracy one can get from a 223 AR. And I have a lot of ARs. Having a custom gun shop, I build ARs and still have never seen what I would call accuracy

I do have a bolt gun in 223 that'll do 3/4" at 300yds. This sounds good but it's largely bullshit. The least amount of wind and that little bullet blows all over the place.

I do have a 14.5" with pinned and welded FH to avoid the SBR crap. It's a 300 BLK and will honestly group less than 1" at 100yds, Actually, 5/8 to 3/4 is what it'll do

Accuracy might happen in an AR but I've never seen it with anything other than 300 BLK
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Old August 27, 2019, 00:04   #14
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Don’t know about ballistics or accuracy but I saw a gunbroker ad where they put a stoll device on a short barrel AR to bring it up to length and it looked badass....
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Old August 27, 2019, 14:18   #15
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Originally Posted by CG&L View Post
Huey

I never have seen the supposed accuracy one can get from a 223 AR. And I have a lot of ARs. Having a custom gun shop, I build ARs and still have never seen what I would call accuracy

I do have a bolt gun in 223 that'll do 3/4" at 300yds. This sounds good but it's largely bullshit. The least amount of wind and that little bullet blows all over the place.

I do have a 14.5" with pinned and welded FH to avoid the SBR crap. It's a 300 BLK and will honestly group less than 1" at 100yds, Actually, 5/8 to 3/4 is what it'll do

Accuracy might happen in an AR but I've never seen it with anything other than 300 BLK
My 12.5", 13.7" and 14.5/14.7" White Oak Armament and Noveske barreled rifles pinned up to 16" with a myriad of devices will all shoot 1 MOA or better. Purchased four 12" White Oaks in 1:8 twist they had on an overstock clearance for 1/4 or their normal price. All were profiled from Shilen blanks and the three have built shoot 3/4" to 7/8" five shot groups from the magazine with 69 grain SMK's. Of course all three have 3.0 to 3.5 pound triggers, receivers were matched and line bored together plus uppers were squared.

To bring the 12.5" tubes up to 16" and because had an abundance of Noveske KX5 Flaming Pigs in 5/8"◊24 used a 1/2"◊28 to 5/8"◊24 adapter tack welded to the Pigs and then pinned to the barrels which gave me 16.015" from bolt face to end of device. WhIle all currently run 1x or 3x red dot optics before mounting to CQB optics mounted my Vortex 6.5-24x test scope and was surprised to get sub 1 MOA groups out of all three of the 12.5" Shilen/White Oak barrels built thus far.

Have two 13.7" 5.56 Noveske barrels and two 13.7" 6.8 Noveske barrels on builds with one of each cartridge using an AAC 51T Brakeout which comes up to 16.025" from bolt face to end of device. One the other pair of 5.56 and 6.8 13.7" Noveske barrels have Flaming Pigs pinned that measure 16.15" from bolt face to front edge of device. All four shoot sub 1 MOA groups and with properly matched ammo 1/2" to 5/8" five shot groups from the magazine with the high power test scope.

Have probably more 14.7" and 18" barrels than any other lengths. Have so many in each of those lengths can't get all the 14.7's or 18's in a single vault. Have one vault of 14.7 builds, second with 18" builds then a third with rest of thowe lengths that don't have out of vault duties. I was building and pinning 14.7's before realized how easy it was to get 16" with minimal extra length and sub MOA accuracy out of good 13.7's. Now I am always on the hunt for deals on quality 13.7" barrels. With 14.5"/14.7" realized I was not gaining real accuracy but usually having a 17" or slightly longer barrel and it can be very noticeable maneuvering a a rifle that's 1.3" longer than legal requirements in a vehicle or kill house with narrow hallways and doors.

Have been testing the new 1.1-10x FSO combat scope and have had it on an AR 10 to abuse it as much as possible as was told to hammer on it. Am really loving the scope and it works so well for CQB at 1.1x it's reticle looks almost exactly like an ACOG. Until you zoom out to about 5x or above do the hash marks for doping long shots after ranging them in the scope (can range with the FSO faster than with my Leupolds with Horus reticles) use the hash marks to dope the distance and lead marks for walking or running targets. Easiest scope to use when consider can use for CQB at 1.1x to 3x or dead on hits at ranges to 800 yards when crank it up to 10x. When able to earmark some money to more glass plan is to buy a half dozen of the FSO's and scatter them across my 13.7", 14.7" and some 18" combat AR's.

Yes, another Segway but check this site:

https://grscinc.com/

Make sure to watch the video on how the ranging system works then ignore fact it's made in china. That's a big statement from me as hate chinese rifle parts and accessories but ignoring this scope due to where it's assembled is a mistake. Showed it to LGS owner today and he said will discuss finances with wife tonight to see how many he can order right now and he is a China hater too. When he was ranging with my demo, using reticle without illumination or at different illumination settings in red or green said it's the most impressive scope he has used in its price range in years. He goes to SHOT show for entire duration every year but didn't see the FSO till today and is ready to stock his display case.

Back on topic it's easy to find very good shooting barrels in the 12.5" to 14.7" range if spending $350 per tube and up. At $400 there are a half dozen companies with good shooting short barrels. But as mentioned before, at $200 ARP is only decent shooting short barrel have found and their website is "out of stock" on the barrel(s) I need at least half the time with a lead time for restock being months. Have a locker of nice 18" tubes I could part with for such builds but when ask long or short 90% want short.

Looking for other companies with short tubes in the $200 range that will be consistent from batch to batch and "in stock" when need to build a couple of give away rifles quickly if have a couple friends mustering out and know I give away AR's so don't want hurt feelings if say "can't order a barrel right now" for a give away or if helping a friend source parts for a build he will not regret buying especially if on my recommendation. I can't afford to give away White Oak and Noveske tubes and can't wait on ARP at times so have to be some folks here building pinned rifles and getting MOA accuracy at a fair price. If nothing else name the barrels have tried and didn't shoot to your satisfaction so if go ordering and testing have some culled before I try them myself.
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Old August 27, 2019, 20:02   #16
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Have you tried the Faxon or Ballistic Advantage barrels? They seem to be the best liked in the price bracket you are looking at.
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Old August 28, 2019, 09:01   #17
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Have you tried the Faxon or Ballistic Advantage barrels? They seem to be the best liked in the price bracket you are looking at.
Have used the Ballistic Advantage, B.A. Premium Series/Hanson Series. On occasion find their Premium & Hanson blems on deep clearance and mop up when able as meet my quality, accuracy and performance preferences. Have tried Faxon and found them to be hit or miss. All were decent shooters but few were good shooters off the bench at distance and if won't group off a rest making a critical longer shot in the field is going to be tough.

Have seen three Faxon barrels that literally split along one of the rifling grooves and totally failed under heavy abuse before the gas tube failed. In an AR 15 the gas tube is supposed to be the fuse that fails first as its easiest part other than maybe a bolt for an armored to replace and also cheapest. Two were on uTube where someone had unlimited ammo and goal of test was to run rifle hard as could till it broke and both were suprised to see barrel bust before gas tube, bolt, carrier or buffer came unglued. Other was in real life and unsure what owner did to bust it but do know he was also new to reloading which always makes me suspect when see a failure,
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