The FAL Files  

Go Back   The FAL Files > Weapons Discussion > General Firearms Discussion

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old January 07, 2013, 15:33   #1
Thorack
Acquisition Corp Dude
Bronze Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 748
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Fort Sill, Oklahoma, USA
Posts: 8,050
Should excellent refinished parts be considered and sold as NOS??

Well,

I been in the FAL a game a while and every once in awhile I get sucked into something that looks to good to be true.

My question is, do you consider an excellent condition refinished part, New Old Stock (NOS)?

My personnel opinion is no, they are not equivalent. NOS to me means never installed on a rifle, not "looks new". Several sellers of parts do just this, sell refinished parts as NOS. Others like Gunplumber will tell you he has refinished the part or if its NOS he prices commensurately.

Am I getting worked up over nothing? Whats your opinion should excellent condition refinished parts be considered New Old Stock??

Thanks for your consideration.
Thorack
__________________
1. Whenever you are talking to a woman realize this person was born insane and you will never be surprised.

2. Never let Doctors cut on you unless its life or death and ALWAYS get a second opinion.

Last edited by Thorack; January 07, 2013 at 16:15.
Thorack is online now   Reply With Quote
Old January 07, 2013, 15:43   #2
jdmcomp
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 8267
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 749
NO
jdmcomp is online now   Reply With Quote
Old January 07, 2013, 15:52   #3
def90
Dinosaur
Silver Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 50609
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The Peoples' Republic of Boulder, Colorado
Posts: 10,809
NOS should be NOS period.. Imagine selling a re-chromed bumper to a classic car collector as being NOS? The shit would hit the fan.

Refinished parts regardless of the condition should be sold as "refinished".
__________________
There is no theory of evolution, just a list of creatures Chuck Norris allows to live.
def90 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old January 07, 2013, 16:09   #4
bykerhd
Dinosaur
Bronze Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 2798
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Burlington Vermont area
Posts: 13,210
No WAY !

New is NEW, never used.
I suppose fitted, but not used would be ok, as long as the seller is upfront about it.

Refinished NOS would be ok if the parts were new and had been poorly stored,m again, if the seller is upfront about it.
I would think the value would be slightly less than pristine NOS.

Used ? refinished ? Fine to sell as exactly that, but never as NOS.
Even a description of used, refinished to like new would be ok, if the pieces are.
bykerhd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 07, 2013, 16:17   #5
gunplumber
Arrogant Bastard
Gold Contributor
 
gunplumber's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 96
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Surprise, AZ
Posts: 18,605
No - although I understand the quandary. My used parts, refinished, look better than many NOS parts, that suffer various chips and dings from 50 years storage. New Old Stock FAL magazines, that I opened from the wrapper myself, had slight oxidation and significant staining. NOS is meaningless in my opinion, unless it is clarified by what it actually looks like. Some of my NOS German G1 topcovers have a long longitudinal flaw in the paint from where they were stacked in groups of 10 before cheese-cloth wrapping and dunking in Cosmolene.

The condition of the part is not relevant. All that matters is the buyer receive a part in the same condition (or better) that he expected.

This is what I use.


NEW A+. New. Looks and is new.

NOS A. New, Old Stock. Technically new, but may have tiny dings or scratches from handling and long-term storage

EXC A. Excellent. As good as new, but may show evidence of having been installed in a rifle. Many of my EXC parts are actually new, but I refinished them anyway because my finish is usually nicer and more durable than the original military specification.

VG B. Very Good. May have minor cosmetic blemishes or minor pitting prior to refinish.

GOOD C. Good. Good is the lowest condition where the part will safely and reliably perform its intended function. May show moderate pitting before refinish, or factory authorized repairs.

FAIR D. Fair. Heavy pitting, or parts may require repair to perform safely and reliably, but they are repairable.

POOR F. Poor. Parts may be unrepairable. I don't sell parts in poor condition.
__________________
T. Mark Graham
Master Gunsmith
Arizona Response Systems, LLC

Last edited by gunplumber; January 07, 2013 at 16:22.
gunplumber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 07, 2013, 18:39   #6
Mebsuta
Khemi, Stygia
Contributor
 
Mebsuta's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 4143
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Khemi, Stygia
Posts: 7,424
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorack View Post
Well,

I been in the FAL a game a while and every once in awhile I get sucked into something that looks to good to be true.

My question is, do you consider an excellent condition refinished part, New Old Stock (NOS)?

My personnel opinion is no, they are not equivalent. NOS to me means never installed on a rifle, not "looks new". Several sellers of parts do just this, sell refinished parts as NOS. Others like Gunplumber will tell you he has refinished the part or if its NOS he prices commensurately.

Am I getting worked up over nothing? Whats your opinion should excellent condition refinished parts be considered New Old Stock??

Thanks for your consideration.
Thorack
No, excellent refinished is not NOS. If I pull the excellent bbl off Mauser 98/29 and refinish it, do I sell it as NOS to a Mauser guy? No way Jose.
Mebsuta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 07, 2013, 18:48   #7
nwobhm
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
 
nwobhm's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 9580
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 7,538
No.
nwobhm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 07, 2013, 18:49   #8
tywest
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 66761
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: West, GA
Posts: 1,956
No!

NOS is NOS

Not

Refinished used part or even refinished new part, some people really like the idea of using unused old stock parts in original finish.

Me for one appreciates being able to assemble an almost entirely new rifle right down to the spring and screws........but for a beater i wouldnt care either way but accurate descriptions mean alot.....especially when youve bought NOS and you get it and can tell its been refinished.
tywest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 07, 2013, 18:52   #9
007
Senior Member
Bronze Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 14403
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 870
NO!
__________________
When it comes down to Steel Case 308/7.62x51 Ammo, Brain food for thought IMHO, The few cents you may save will certainly not outweigh the life you may sacrifice.
007 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old January 07, 2013, 20:03   #10
rool_303
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 39758
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 250
In my opinion, NOS tells you nothing about the condition of the part, other than it is "not used". I once purchased a lot of NOS BM59 magazines that I WISH had been refinished. They were still in the original wrap and mostly covered with cosmo. Unfortunately, the non-greased areas were thick with rust and pitting but, they were NOS...

To answer Thorack's original question, no, refinished is not NOS!

Last edited by rool_303; January 07, 2013 at 20:08.
rool_303 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 07, 2013, 20:20   #11
rochte
Veteran Member
Contributor
Bronze Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 16305
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Grosse Pointe, MI
Posts: 1,408
"Used is new?"

This is like one of those questions that makes smoke start coming out of the robot's head in a cheezy sci-fi flick... "Does not compute! Does not compute!"

rochte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 07, 2013, 20:33   #12
phillyray
Veteran Member
Contributor
 
phillyray's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 43105
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 1,551
No, even though when I buy a used car I call it my new car...
phillyray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 07, 2013, 22:26   #13
ftierson
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 13827
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 12,427
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyray View Post
No, even though when I buy a used car I call it my new car...
As do I ...

But, to the original question, NO...

Forrest
ftierson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 08, 2013, 12:28   #14
ramiller
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 3674
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: pennsylvania
Posts: 1,382
Kind of like marrying a divorced woman with a child, if she put on makeup and a new dress would you call her a virgin?

Last edited by ramiller; January 09, 2013 at 06:50.
ramiller is online now   Reply With Quote
Old January 08, 2013, 12:48   #15
gunnutt
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 14732
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 151
Old is the new NEW! Get on board man!
gunnutt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 09, 2013, 10:18   #16
Bug Tussell
Curio & Relic
Silver Contributor
 
Bug Tussell's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 2872
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Bug Tussell Farm
Posts: 3,082
Quote:
Originally Posted by rool_303 View Post
In my opinion, NOS tells you nothing about the condition of the part, other than it is "not used". I once purchased a lot of NOS BM59 magazines that I WISH had been refinished. They were still in the original wrap and mostly covered with cosmo. Unfortunately, the non-greased areas were thick with rust and pitting but, they were NOS...

To answer Thorack's original question, no, refinished is not NOS!
h

I would not call those BM59 mags NOS. NOS to me is as NEW though OLD STOCK. I don't think labeling something NOS should allow for rust. That's just my opinion and I'm no expert.
__________________
Make your time
Bug Tussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 09, 2013, 18:39   #17
bykerhd
Dinosaur
Bronze Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 2798
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Burlington Vermont area
Posts: 13,210
I've seen NOS gun, motorcycle and car parts that would be unusable as-is.

Technically new, but poor storage, in some cases, banging around loose in parts bins for years ?, rough handling can give new parts more than their fair share of that "used" look sometimes.

Quite a bit rougher that gunplumber's description would allow for I'm afraid.
Still, TECHNICALLY correct.
Unless one has very good communication and actual pictures from a seller, NOS should be accepted as accurate, with caution.
bykerhd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 09, 2013, 19:23   #18
4x401
Guy-Epics conscience...
Silver Contributor
 
4x401's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 31978
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Preparing in earnest for the 4th blood moon...
Posts: 5,309
HELL NO!!!!
__________________
Just plain tired of the Bullshit...
4x401 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 11, 2013, 21:11   #19
masman
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 781
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 5,791
no any NOS parts should be in orignal packaging and if that packaging has been comprimised the seller should tell the buyer that
__________________
somethings wrong with the world when the best rapper is white.the best golfer is black.the french think that the us is arrogant and the germans don't want to go to war
masman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old January 11, 2013, 21:32   #20
ExCdnSoldierInTx
DaneBramage
Gold Contributor
 
ExCdnSoldierInTx's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 65552
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Anna, Tx
Posts: 3,405
NOS is exactly that.

If it's refinished,.. It's refinished or restored. Period.

If it's repro, it's repro.

There are no exceptions...
__________________
"Am I the only one that thinks ExCdnSoldierInTx might be a woman???"
EricCartmanR1, Sept 02, 2014
ExCdnSoldierInTx is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:51.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©1998-2012 The FAL Files