A tough one to call

[DeMilled]

Originally Posted by ronpaulFAL

I said "sounds like", not definitive. And yes, it "sounds like" they are POS if they did indeed beat a middle aged woman at gunpoint and put her in the hospital. That's a bit worse than being off to a bad start.

Nonetheless, I believe that when police have superior numbers, tactics and equipment they also have an obligation to act with even greater discretion and forethought than we would normally expect of them. I highly doubt that kid was running for cover in order to quickly and efficiently kill them all in an area with abundant concealment, using a bolt action 5 shot deer rifle.

Sorry, should have been more clear as to whom I believe was off to a bad start...


27-year old Matthew Hubney and 25-year old Justin Wood are the two shit bags that put a 46 year old lady in the hospital. The should have been shot that night. They were either hiding inside the house or running out the back door while Sam was confronting the police.

18 year old Sam Mullane is the friend of the shit bags who decided to arm himself and tell the cops to F-Off. He, Sam Mullane, is the guy that I believe was off to a bad start, yet not a full blown POS.


As to discretion and forethought...

The SWAT guys were doing recon at 1:30 AM on a house where known armed fugitives were hiding. If Sam had not walked up on them they would have reported what they found and the commander at the command post would have decided their next move. Talking them out, starving them out, trading patchouli oil for the girl inside the house, riding in there on unicorns and rainbow hugging them into passivity would have all been options at that point. That point being before Sam found the SWAT guys trying to hide in the grass.

This is the view from just behind the shed looking towards the spot were the SWAT guys were lying in the grass with night vision equipment looking at the house.


http://www.newslincolncounty.com/?p=54911
"SWAT officers then grabbed the badly wounded Mullane and pulled him around to the side opposite the house for cover, knowing that those inside were armed."

This is the view looking up the drive.



Sam damn near did make it into cover and judging by the fact that they had "vowed not to be taken alive" and Sam was yelling curse words at SWAT guys, who were like, what ten yards away? I'd say that the SWAT guys did indeed have to keep Sam from getting into cover and using the rifle.

In this situation I submit that it would have been a huge lapse in judgment for SWAT to let Sam go any further.


As to obligations; SWAT officers have an obligation to end this bull shit (that Sam's friends started and he jumped right into up to his neck) with minimal loss of life. Shooting Sam before he could get into a position to bring his bolt action into play was the correct move on the part of the officers. Beyond seeing dead officers hit the ground, just WTF else did SWAT need before they took the shot?

And what did the SWAT team do after the guy with a rifle was dead?

From the above cited article "Soon after, the rest of the SWAT Team surrounded the house and yelled for those inside to come out. Beating suspect Matthew Hubeny emerged and was taken into custody."



All Sam had to do was put the damned gun down.

SWAT would have been idiots to let him go back inside and join his armed buddies, when they had him right there and could end the threat to police that Sam was only to happy to, loudly and proudly, make of himself.




My final point here is this.

ronpaulFAL, you said this "I highly doubt that kid was running for cover in order to quickly and efficiently kill them all in an area with abundant concealment, using a bolt action 5 shot deer rifle."

You're statement supposes that Sam was acting like a sane and rational person.

I suggest that a guy who; takes in two people running from the law for robbing and beating a 46 year old woman, vows not to be taken alive, is told that the cops are down the road and reacts by picking up a five shot bolt action rifle and flashlight, goes looking for them at 1:30 am, finds four SWAT officers in the grass and then proceeds to cuss them out is not behaving like a sane and rational person.