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Old April 23, 2018, 08:01   #1
Mebsuta
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We had operators in Vietnam

I wonder who this is, returning from somewhere with a car-15. The caption I could find says this is MAC-V-SOG, 1970-1971.



http://pro-patria-mori.tumblr.com/post/45479181011
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Old April 23, 2018, 08:28   #2
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Yes, yes we did...

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Old April 23, 2018, 08:36   #3
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She's probly VC and tattled on the operator with teh car-15.
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Old April 23, 2018, 08:37   #4
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She's probly VC and tattled on the operator with teh car-15.
HAHA!
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Old April 23, 2018, 15:28   #5
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Old April 23, 2018, 17:11   #6
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Looks more like company man and working in Cambodia/Laos to me, see the fellow that got off the far side.
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Old April 23, 2018, 17:44   #7
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I not sure CIA would use that much US issued equipment. During Operation Ivory Coast they were using red dot sights and chest rigs decades before they were cool:

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Old April 23, 2018, 18:07   #8
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Looks more like company man and working in Cambodia/Laos to me, see the fellow that got off the far side.
That makes sense. Read there was a change in the govt of Cambodia in 1970, which allowed the USA to do something with the NVA/VC that had bases there. Had to be limited though because of opposition to the Vietnam War.

My understanding is the US/ARVN ran the enemy off and captured lots of supplies, but of course everything was compromised, so most of the enemy was not there when the US went looking and returned at a later date.
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Old April 23, 2018, 18:07   #9
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I've always heard that US operators (SEAL teams) used a vast array of armament in addition to M16s and Stoners...S&W Model 76s, G3s, AR-10s, etc. I always enjoy seeing photos of those guys "in country."
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Old April 23, 2018, 18:09   #10
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I not sure CIA would use that much US issued equipment. During Operation Ivory Coast they were using red dot sights and chest rigs decades before they were cool:

Are they CIA or US military?


Where does the CIA get operators? Do they get people from the military and attach them to whatever they're doing?
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Old April 23, 2018, 18:16   #11
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Are they CIA or US military?


Where does the CIA get operators? Do they get people from the military and attach them to whatever they're doing?
YES!
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Old April 23, 2018, 18:22   #12
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LRRP?
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Old April 23, 2018, 18:39   #13
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LRRP?
LRRP's were also known as pack mules are us, and he's awful lite in equipment getting off tha bird.
No ruck.

Where ever he was working, was high and dry and he was not out that long.

Looks like two water bladders in his left hand, and he's wearing old fashioned legging over his boots, which tells me, sharp rocks, dry, high country op.

Also heavy on ammo pouches.
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Old April 23, 2018, 18:51   #14
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I saw the gaiters and wondered if that was WW2 surplus, but I think they were still made close to 1970. I wonder if some form of them is still in use.
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Old April 23, 2018, 18:58   #15
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I saw the gaiters and wondered if that was WW2 surplus, but I think they were still made close to 1970. I wonder if some form of them is still in use.
You need those if traveling/working in dry high rocky areas, to keep your ankles intact, keep from twisting an ankle, snake country, etc..

Mebs, the US Army has warehouses full of still "new" equipment going back decades.
Old does not mean no longer needed for some future use.

I got to tour a few depots in Europe, the amount of wool underwear, over pants,etc all from the 40's, 50's would make a surplus dealer wet his drawers.
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Old April 23, 2018, 20:29   #16
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I wonder who this is, returning from somewhere with a car-15. The caption I could find says this is MAC-V-SOG, 1970-1971.



http://pro-patria-mori.tumblr.com/post/45479181011
He strikes me as a typical LRRP just returning from a mission.

Vietnam LRRPs used the CAR-15 quite a bit.
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Old April 23, 2018, 22:30   #17
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30 round mag so not earlier than 70-71. Not sure of the exact date they started using the 30 rounder. Not sure about the weapon, it isn't an XM-177 with the long flash suppressor. M-14 mag pouches were about all that was available so nothing new there. Web gear suspenders look weird, don't know what those are. What the hell are those leggings or WTF do you call them over the boots? Looks like WW-I. LOL People used all kinds of shit in Vietnam.

I kinda like the "operator" Ten Tea posted a pic of. LOL She is probably living in Orange County, CA. hahaha

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Old April 23, 2018, 22:54   #18
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He strikes me as a typical LRRP just returning from a mission.

Vietnam LRRPs used the CAR-15 quite a bit.
I am with Yellowhand on the opine he is not a LRRP. The guys I knew in LRRP, would have had heavy packs with claymores, batteries for the radios,water, eatables and ammo. Most would have been in a camo of some type. As for as weapons, they carried AK's on up to M60 "bitch" guns and about everything in between.

Oh yeah, they also had to have wheelbarrows......never saw a LRRP with them but they had to have something to carry their cajones in...
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Old April 23, 2018, 23:18   #19
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I am with Yellowhand on the opine he is not a LRRP. The guys I knew in LRRP, would have had heavy packs with claymores, batteries for the radios,water, eatables and ammo. Most would have been in a camo of some type. As for as weapons, they carried AK's on up to M60 "bitch" guns and about everything in between.

Oh yeah, they also had to have wheelbarrows......never saw a LRRP with them but they had to have something to carry their cajones in...
Pack mules are us!!!!!

Ak's, Swedish K's, and pump action shotguns were always in high demand.

Just a wild ass guess, but suspect this one was just returning from a meet and greet, pow wow with locals.

Lack of all markings, and the pilots are wearing black leather boots, Cambodia, Laos, even far northern Thailand.
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Old April 23, 2018, 23:22   #20
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I think he is wearing STABO harness. Not familiar with it, just seems to be what that is from looking at pictures.
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Old April 23, 2018, 23:28   #21
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Well dress and highly educated LRRP's in 69/70 time frame!

Boredom will drive ya nuts!

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Old April 23, 2018, 23:32   #22
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Just a wild ass guess, but suspect this one was just returning from a meet and greet, pow wow with locals.
Do you think the other armed person is the interpreter?
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Old April 23, 2018, 23:56   #23
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Do you think the other armed person is the interpreter?
I only allow myself one wild ass guess per day!

Very well could be.
Or maybe the camp cook.

Its a very interesting photo in many ways, would be nice to know the true facts behind it.

Lack of anyone else with him is very interesting, and showing his full face to the camera?????? folks not in regular units really tended not to ever do that.

I really am just guessing.

Brings back memories long forgotten though of a place far far away and needing now to be forgotten.
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Old April 24, 2018, 00:02   #24
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Btw, I'd much rather be with this superb super soldier than a bunch of smelly ass grunts!

This one is well armed, she is!

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Old April 24, 2018, 01:18   #25
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Mid 70's? 11.5 inch looking barrel. 30 round mags.
Guy behind him has same set up, but XM148 looking GL.
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Old April 24, 2018, 03:17   #26
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Are they CIA or US military? Where does the CIA get operators? Do they get people from the military and attach them to whatever they're doing?
Have a good friend who's dad was a Green Beret in Vietnam and a lifer retiring as Full Bird. He had the sense to register his bring backs during the short time given. Friends grandfather was one of the original Currahee Rangers during WW2 and also a lifer. Greatgrandfather fought in WW1 and did his 30 years. His family can trace most of the males joining the Army back to both sides of War of Northern Aggression and even Revolutionary War. Never not been a person in his family in the Army and usually the sons went in before the father's retired.

Friend said he would do as all his forefathers and make a career out of the Army so went to VMI, went active and did Ranger School, made it into Green Berets, Scout Sniper School, managed to get in a couple minor little incidents then suddenly showed up at the house for a visit to say he had retired his commission to take a private security job based in Europe. Asked who he was working for and contact info and was told not to call him, he would contact me when he could.

Seen him for two funerals in past decade of close friends of both of ours. He has missed more funerals than made and last trip would have sworn he was a Muslim Imam with a fresh shower and slight trim but other than a half hour drinking coffee after the funeral and talking about our mutual deceased friends I asked no questions about his job and he volunteered no information but did ask how far he was from retiring. Age 50 he was still hard as a rock. Looked like he could hump a ruck for weeks or months if need. Said he would retire when he could no longer keep up. Keep up with whom was not mentioned and I can only suppose what he does these days but know it had to be special for him to resign his commission right after being promoted to Captain.

My guess is operators come out military, FBI, Secret Service and similar that show a propensity to be able to work alone, have highly honed trade crafts and proper motivation and pedigree. Some day hope he retires, comes home and get a few opportunities to sit around a fire at hunting camp and see what slips out. My guess is there is no shortage of guys with similar roots that are willing and ready to do whatever asked.
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Old April 24, 2018, 10:03   #27
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My Google foo finds MACVSOG Recon Team, 1970/71
http://www.hollilla.com/reader.php?a...161&offset=150 Go down to the bottom, up one set- Dave76, multiple photos, same guy.
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Old April 24, 2018, 10:31   #28
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Followed your link and found this picture, notice caption saying with CAR 15 and Colt scope:



There are a couple other pics of this guy and I see a bubble with red fiber tube resembling the old Weaver quick point which was the first red dot system I ever owned. Say early/mid 1980's when got my hands on first and sone had a mix or them on shot guns and handguns.
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Old April 24, 2018, 11:34   #29
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Followed your link and found this picture, notice caption saying with CAR 15 and Colt scope:



There are a couple other pics of this guy and I see a bubble with red fiber tube resembling the old Weaver quick point which was the first red dot system I ever owned. Say early/mid 1980's when got my hands on first and sone had a mix or them on shot guns and handguns.


Prior to Armson OEG?

http://armsonusa.com/index.html



*photo courtesy of Mr Gunplumber, it appears...
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Old April 24, 2018, 17:21   #30
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In the image from Op Ivory Coast (Son Tay Raid - late 1970) and that Huey posted, the sight is a "SinglePoint" (OEG Type Sight). They were also mounted at different times on FALs/SLRs around the world. They are UK made.
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Old April 24, 2018, 18:11   #31
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LRRP?
Yep
My first team sergeant was LRRP. If he didn't know you as SF he wouldn't even give you the time of day. He told me about some pretty f'd up crap our .gov pulled on our guys. 1 tough bastard!
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Old April 24, 2018, 19:57   #32
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I used to work with a former LRRP in the private sector, a decade or two post-Nam. Interesting individual to say the least. Told me he became a LRRP following a fire fight in which he was his platoon's only survivor: Nothing left to lose, and a deep hatred for the enemy.

He passed away about a decade ago... Good man... R.I.P. Al, R.I.P.
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Old April 24, 2018, 20:03   #33
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Old April 24, 2018, 20:13   #34
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Followed your link and found this picture, notice caption saying with CAR 15 and Colt scope:



There are a couple other pics of this guy and I see a bubble with red fiber tube resembling the old Weaver quick point which was the first red dot system I ever owned. Say early/mid 1980's when got my hands on first and sone had a mix or them on shot guns and handguns.
Finger on the trigger.
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Old April 24, 2018, 22:46   #35
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Finger on the trigger.
That was the style back then.

Guy in OP is MAC-V SOG. I forget which RT.

Quote:
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I've always heard that US operators (SEAL teams) used a vast array of armament in addition to M16s and Stoners...S&W Model 76s, G3s, AR-10s, etc. I always enjoy seeing photos of those guys "in country."
HK33's were well-liked. Their berets were cool, too. Damnit, I want a Stoner!
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Old April 25, 2018, 06:05   #36
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All I know is it wasn't any Colt scope had ever seen and fact it's likely a Sears Roebuck is hilarious. Can see some SpecOps armorer ordering top shelf optics from Sears during Vietnam dot gov political fiasco. Near as I can determine is entire war was fought by French then us over rubber trees for Michelin tire company. Gotta have good tires, eh? Shame we didn't get in it to win it. Still have a couple of Weaver Quick Points and still work decent enough to be on shotguns 30+ years later. Need no batteries and never was able to break one.

Quote:
Prior to Armson OEG?
Unsure but had my Quick Points years before ever saw an Armson OEG. Who was first have no idea, Weaver is known for cheap copies, innovation and some nice stuff as well. Like Nikon can't buy based on company reputation but price point and reviews of actual model. Have had more of each die than any other brand but had good in both now.
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Old April 25, 2018, 08:21   #37
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My Google foo finds MACVSOG Recon Team, 1970/71
http://www.hollilla.com/reader.php?a...161&offset=150 Go down to the bottom, up one set- Dave76, multiple photos, same guy.
That's a good find, thanks.
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Old April 25, 2018, 10:13   #38
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Mac V Sog CCC

Recon teams from CCC, Command Control Central, All had XM177-E2's Commando's 11 1/2 inch barrels and some even had the sound moderators. The photo of the red head with the white dress is Isreali IDF. The Israeli's are known for carrying there M16's low slung with the front sling around the delta ring and through the back of the butt stock loop.
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Old April 25, 2018, 14:38   #39
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Recon teams from CCC, Command Control Central, All had XM177-E2's Commando's 11 1/2 inch barrels and some even had the sound moderators. The photo of the red head with the white dress is Isreali IDF. The Israeli's are known for carrying there M16's low slung with the front sling around the delta ring and through the back of the butt stock loop.
Almost every one of my AR's have an attachment plate with holes both sides that replaces or is part of the build instead of receiver end plate. Darn handy way to carry as can have hanging behind me at hip at about handgun height like pistol in holster or at almost ready with hand on forearm and pistol grip but sling still supporting some of the weight.







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Old April 25, 2018, 16:24   #40
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Sorry this has drifted from the OP, but it looks like the original question was answered. On the secondary topic that seems to be the Son Tay raid and the Single Point sight,.....yes, it pre-dates the Armson and any other red dot. I had an original back in the 70's that was sitting at my LGS completely unloved. Mounted it on an M1 Carbine and stupidly let it go a few years later. It took me 40yrs to track down another but I finally found this one at a local show last year. These scopes aren't horribly rare, but every time you find one on ebay the StarWars dufi bid them up to over $400 for their Imperial Blaster mock-ups. This one was in the box for $30 so my Son Tay Blaster mock-up project is back on track.



Far from a perfect clone, it's built on an A2 lower and whatever pencil barrel I had laying around. Stock and grip are original A1 and the upper is a 601 slick side, but still fussing over the forearm. I could just throw a carbine handguard on it but I have some cut-down delta guards I want to use,...but that would require tearing off the gas block to replace the tapered HG retainer and replacing the round fe cap with the triangle cap. Too much work for something that still wouldn't be even close to correct.
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Old April 25, 2018, 19:19   #41
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Sorry this has drifted from the OP, but it looks like the original question was answered. On the secondary topic that seems to be the Son Tay raid and the Single Point sight,.....yes, it pre-dates the Armson and any other red dot. I had an original back in the 70's that was sitting at my LGS completely unloved. Mounted it on an M1 Carbine and stupidly let it go a few years later. It took me 40yrs to track down another but I finally found this one at a local show last year. These scopes aren't horribly rare, but every time you find one on ebay the StarWars dufi bid them up to over $400 for their Imperial Blaster mock-ups. This one was in the box for $30 so my Son Tay Blaster mock-up project is back on track.
Thread drift is inevitable, otherwise we would have to start a fresh thread every five minutes when someone had a synapse fire due to a comment in the O.P.'s subject matter. The Star Wars numbskulls do the same thing with 1950/1960's Civil Defense radiation dosimiters. It's like airsoft crowd has the cheap people or ones with sense buying chinese repop plate carriers then the rich/stupid ones that bid up a real dot mil plate carrier with no soft or hard armor to $500.
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Old April 25, 2018, 19:35   #42
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Anyone who has flicked through 'Nog and The Sheep Tamperer's book on the FAL will note they covered the Single Point as it saw enough use on the FAL/SLR to warrant it. I remember seeing a Single Point (with a green element) laying in a box of junk in an armoury less than 10yrs ago. It was destine for the trash and I didn't even know what I was looking at...

Plaster's book (Secret Commands) on MACV SOG mentions them pooling $s and ordering 30 round magazines from a commercial source back home as the system were not supplying them at the time. Same as having a go a visiting General to have more CAR15s supplied.
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You could do some searching and find a nice TLC and do the same thing, still saving a bunch of $$ and end up with a nice, comfortable CAPABLE rig...
(Jiminy Christmas, did I just recommend a 'yota?!!??)

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Old April 25, 2018, 20:35   #43
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There was a magazine drive here on the FAL Files, it seems like 15 years ago. Was the US really short of magazines at the time, or just forgot where they put them during the 90s? I don't know.
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Old April 25, 2018, 21:16   #44
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That was the style back then.
I remember hearing the Marines had a lot of accidental shootings around Danang early on. The night before we made a landing, the amphib I was on had a Marine cleaning a 1911 shoot two guys sitting next to him.
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Old April 25, 2018, 22:46   #45
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There was a magazine drive here on the FAL Files, it seems like 15 years ago. Was the US really short of magazines at the time, or just forgot where they put them during the 90s? I don't know.

We had all we could hump in 90 and 91!

Damn, I've been retired a looooooooooong time, fall of 91, when they FINALLY let me retire, the second time!LOL

"You have been recalled to AD for the duration of the conflict!"

Them words sure pissed off my southern belle it did!
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Old April 25, 2018, 23:22   #46
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OP PHOTO ................
HE is "MAC V SOG" . . . they used to work alot with RVN/SF, mountain yards, and or kit carson's. Snoop and poop & hit teams.
Notice the harness he has on and where the 2ea D rings are . . . . . fast rope extractions !

The m14 mag pouch advantage was that it opened simply by pulling upward on the green canvas tab, remember !
The m16 pouch required you to find the release and then squeeze the tabs to release....... more +++time !!!

Based on the event you were going out on dictated the load out. You rarely loaded the same way for each event.

LRRPs usually carried more, thus the name LONG RANGE. But depending on how far out, for how long they went.

The helmet on the pilot is green, the newer style for the time(based on his flight suit). Black helmets were very early and removed from inventory
there for the newer green ones with better hearing protection, mike, strap, fit, and alledged protection.

The leather boots on aircrews are a form of additional fire protection.
The jungle boots had nylon uppers, which in a "fire" of JP4 fuel would melt to your skin and keep burning.
The leather boots gave you additional time to GTFO if you could..... sold!

we occasionally provided services for Mac-V-SOG, LRRP, Rangers, Sniper's.

(majority of LRRP people were folded into the Ranger companies,
as the first Ranger Company in RVN, " K " stood up in very early 1969.

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Old April 26, 2018, 04:37   #47
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Nephew was first to go to middle east and is a Blackhawk driver. Gave him a Randall 15 Airman as going to war gift. Figured it would better as knife grandaddy's carried to war than knife cazy uncle kept in safe. Had it on his flight gear first month in when a crusty old General saw it, asked him some questions and said when he got back from his mission to come to the brass tent for dinner. Gave him the knife in case he needed to cut himself out of helicopter but instead made him a friend with rank which moved his promotions up. Since then every relative or friends kid that deploys, give them a Randall knife to take. Actually ran out and having to buy more as they deploy.
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