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Old June 11, 2019, 14:40   #1
D P Six
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Are war criminals punished?

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2019/06/...-get-punished/


' ... Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-CA) ... defended Navy SEAL Edward Gallagher, who faces war crimes charges .... . Gallagher is charged with stabbing a 15 year old ISIS member while in custody, of taking photos posing with the corpse of the teen, and with killing several civilians.

Defending Gallagher recently, Hunter put his own record up next to the SEAL to suggest that he’s an elected Congressman who has done worse things in battle than Gallagher.

....by Hunter’s own account he and his fellow soldiers killed hundreds of innocent civilians, including women and children. They fired mortars into the city and killed at random. ...'


War criminals on the winning side are seldom punished ... but things have a way of coming full circle. German General Anton Dostler might suggest not doing such things unless you are 100% certain you are on the winning side.

https://www.thevintagenews.com/2016/...ng-15-oss-men/
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Old June 11, 2019, 19:04   #2
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War is Hell.......sometimes ya gotta break a few heads to make an omelette....
Going forward we should have the balls to eliminate the enemy and walk away.
If you can't manage that don't go in. And we don't send the losers to Amerika like we did in Iraq I....under GHWB....what a bunch a shit.
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Old June 11, 2019, 19:15   #3
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The real criminals are the politicians that sent our troops over there.
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Old June 11, 2019, 19:25   #4
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War is Hell.......sometimes ya gotta break a few heads to make an omelette.......
G
I repeat myself, "........by Hunter’s own account he and his fellow soldiers killed hundreds of innocent civilians, including women and children. ... ". If this is what we have to do 'to make an omelette' we are in very deep shit as a country. This kind of thing saddens me beyond any words.
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Old June 11, 2019, 19:32   #5
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The real criminals are the politicians that sent our troops over there.
While I agree with you it is equally disturbing that critical thinking is almost non existing among the 17-18 year old mush heads who enter the military. They have no idea what they are getting into and can't extricate themselves once they become aware.
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Old June 11, 2019, 19:41   #6
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I repeat myself, "........by Hunter’s own account he and his fellow soldiers killed hundreds of innocent civilians, including women and children. ... ". If this is what we have to do 'to make an omelette' we are in very deep shit as a country. This kind of thing saddens me beyond any words.
Here's the deal, you go to work in Iraq for KBR hauling food or fuel or ice to the bases. The muzzies get their kids to run out in front of the trucks so they can kill you and steal the cargo and the truck. Would you run over the kid to save your life and the other convoy drivers?

Politicians send people over there to die and to kill, will politicians ever receive justice?

Funny we can put the hurt on Iran and never go there.
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Old June 11, 2019, 19:42   #7
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While I agree with you it is equally disturbing that critical thinking is almost non existing among the 17-18 year old mush heads who enter the military. They have no idea what they are getting into and can't extricate themselves once they become aware.
And suicides by our vets are about 20 a day.
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Old June 11, 2019, 19:50   #8
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Yep,

The WW II generation incinerated entire cities full of women and children to ash with both fire bombs and atomic weapons, when are you gonna jump thier butts?

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Old June 11, 2019, 19:52   #9
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I repeat myself, "........by Hunter’s own account he and his fellow soldiers killed hundreds of innocent civilians, including women and children. ... ". If this is what we have to do 'to make an omelette' we are in very deep shit as a country. This kind of thing saddens me beyond any words.
""by Hunter’s own account he and his fellow soldiers killed hundreds of innocent civilians, including women and children. They fired mortars into the city and killed at random. ...'

Last time I was shot at with a mortar round, or watched as our mortars were being fired upon targets,,,,well,,,none of them were precision weapons, and if your targets are surrounded by non combatants, men, women, children, they will get killed right along with the bad guys.

It goes back too,,,,,you're taking fire from a hospital or church, full of civilians and an unknown number of hostiles.

Do you;

Send in your men and try to clear the area room by room, most dangerous missions that exist, and safe guard the civilians, but knowing, your men are very likely to take casualties/deaths?

Or do you call in an air or arty/mortar attack and drop the whole place into a smoking pile of rubble and none of your people are harmed?

Another issue that happens,,, a lot,,,you got to drive through a town,,again, send in your people,,,house to house,,clear the place and take casualties, or simply drop whatever you got onto the place, soften it up, then move through???

Civilians get mixed in with combat troops,,,they always end up dead.

Its called war.
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Old June 11, 2019, 21:18   #10
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Yep,

The WW II generation incinerated entire cities full of women and children to ash with both fire bombs and atomic weapons, when are you gonna jump there butts.

Thorack
Dresden was bombed with flaming white phosphorus aka Willy Pete....they dropped so much on it they were afraid the air would catch fire. BTW they
banned the use of white phosphorus.

Ask yourself this: if there is a job opening or a construction project to bid how many applicants can be awarded the job? War is no different. There is no second place in the real world. Winning is everything.....if you fail to vanquish your enemy you are screwed.....Look at N. Korea...they still believe they kicked our ass and I'd be certain they teach that to their children. We should have nuked them too. The winner writes the story.....we are all friends
until the shooting starts.
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Old June 11, 2019, 21:36   #11
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Yeah,

They fire bombed Tokyo for a week straight. Most homes were made of wood and paper. Fire got so hot it melted all the bronze used for lanterns and flash ashed people that took refuge in trees. Killed more civilians in Tokyo with fire bombs than both Atomic bombs put together.

Not a soul questions those decisions, but some johnny come lately questions when regular line troops drop Mortars in support of maneuvering infantry.

Sit down and shut up or go enlist and get in a fire fight or two and tell me who you are worried about. Please walk a mile in someones shoes.

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Old June 12, 2019, 06:40   #12
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War criminals can only be found on the losing side; the winners will always justify their actions.
Writers of the accounts of conflict will tell the story they want people to remember, and if the conquered are dead, in prison, or in fear for their life if they speak out on their own behalf - then the children, and the grandchildren will only hear the side from the victors.
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Old June 12, 2019, 07:04   #13
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War is inherently criminal in nature. To talk of 'war crimes' is to imply otherwise. It is not helpful to pretend that war is something that it is not.
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Old June 12, 2019, 07:31   #14
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Yeah,

They fire bombed Tokyo for a week straight. Most homes were made of wood and paper. Fire got so hot it melted all the bronze used for lanterns and flash ashed people that took refuge in trees. Killed more civilians in Tokyo with fire bombs than both Atomic bombs put together.

Not a soul questions those decisions, but some johnny come lately questions when regular line troops drop Mortars in support of maneuvering infantry.

Sit down and shut up or go enlist and get in a fire fight or two and tell me who you are worried about. Please walk a mile in someones shoes.

Thorack
Deliberate targeting of any civilian population is over the top in my opinion. It should be always avoided

Now dropping mortar or artillery shells into a zone with embedded enemy assets ?
situational in my opinion, in short I won't judge what Hunter did in Iraq
Sticking a knife in some captured ISIS fighter ?
I have no shits given on that count either

The only real problem was goofball took pix posing with the dead insurgent and was ratted out by others in his command over it so he collected his personal Stupid Tax.

Myself though, I don't buy into the old adage that I need to have been there done that before I am qualified to have an opinion either
that's saying you need to have had a dick up your ass before commenting one way or the other about faggotry

For the record, yeah I question the Tokyo fire bombings
that was deliberate targeting of residential areas
Dresden was more of the same
both were completely unnessary and in my opinion counter productive acts
I have mixed feelings regarding the nuclear strikes
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Old June 12, 2019, 13:48   #15
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The real criminals are the politicians that sent our troops over there.
Oh, how about the voters that keep sending those criminals back to DC again and again?




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Old June 12, 2019, 17:02   #16
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War is inherently criminal in nature. To talk of 'war crimes' is to imply otherwise. It is not helpful to pretend that war is something that it is not.
War used to be about raping, pillaging and sacking. Now it's more about annihilation from bombs, then raping and pillaging. Same as it ever was. War is just as much about breaking the will of the people in the back lines as the front. Sherman pretty much got that ball rolling in western modern warfare.

I can't remember 1 instance of nation building on foreign soil that we have spilled blood of young Americans after WWII for nation building that has actually turned out well. The military is not a police force. I have respect for the people that sign on the line to give it all if ordered. But there are people in their lands that need to figure it out for themselves. Albeit I see the flip side with Russia and China supplying arms or do I? Seems like a big cabal with the plebes caught in the cross fire.


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Oh, how about the voters that keep sending those criminals back to DC again and again?



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If voting really mattered, they wouldn't let you do it. I didn't coin the phrase but Clemmons was a visionary and a Southerner. Now they view his works as racist. You better damn well believe that your own gub will deprive you of your property as quick as they can if you get on their radar. Ruskies and Chinks aren't even a remote threat to us compared to the confiscation of money=subjugation if you look at the big picture.
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Old June 12, 2019, 17:15   #17
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The real criminals are the banksters that buy the politicians who then manage to start the wars in the first place and then make trillions on theft and profiteering, in my humble opinion.
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Old June 12, 2019, 17:34   #18
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The real criminals are the banksters that buy the politicians who then manage to start the wars in the first place and then make trillions on theft and profiteering, in my humble opinion.
yep. The cabal
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Old June 12, 2019, 17:59   #19
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Deliberate targeting of any civilian population is over the top in my opinion. It should be always avoided

Now dropping mortar or artillery shells into a zone with embedded enemy assets ?
situational in my opinion, in short I won't judge what Hunter did in Iraq
Sticking a knife in some captured ISIS fighter ?
I have no shits given on that count either

The only real problem was goofball took pix posing with the dead insurgent and was ratted out by others in his command over it so he collected his personal Stupid Tax.

Myself though, I don't buy into the old adage that I need to have been there done that before I am qualified to have an opinion either
that's saying you need to have had a dick up your ass before commenting one way or the other about faggotry

For the record, yeah I question the Tokyo fire bombings
that was deliberate targeting of residential areas
Dresden was more of the same
both were completely unnessary and in my opinion counter productive acts
I have mixed feelings regarding the nuclear strikes
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Old June 12, 2019, 18:11   #20
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War is inherently criminal in nature. To talk of 'war crimes' is to imply otherwise. It is not helpful to pretend that war is something that it is not.
This.

There is violence in furtherance of one's objectives (effective violence)
And violence that does not further one's political objectives (ineffective violence)

Wasting people, time and money on ineffective violence is just that - a waste of people, time and money.

Human life has no special value from a biological perspective. We're common as dirt. Mother nature is a bitch and has been trying to wipe us out for ten thousand years, but we've been rather resilient.

If wiping out an entire city - every man, woman and child - is a rational furtherance of one's goals, one should not be handicapped by any fantasies about "morality". Thus nuking Japan instead of invading.

The only consideration is in second and third order thinking. What is the consequence of wiping out the city for future political objectives? Is hearts and minds going to be more effective in the long term? Will overwhelming destruction of city A put cities B, C, and D in a more favorable mindset, or will it increase their resolve to resist? These are certainly considerations. The "morality" isn't one of a religious or philosophical nature. It is simple one of logistics. It's "immoral" to waste one's own resources in a protracted "civilized" conflict, when one has the means to exterminate one's enemies in a more efficient (albeit "less polite") manner. Unless there is a political objective of greater value than simply exterminating one's foes. Operation Torch and the French, for example.

I have doubts whether Assad used gas on the rebels. Just from a political perspective, he didn't need to - and it generates negative publicity. Personally, I think it was a false flag. But I have no moral objection to it. Only a logistical one - if he did, he did a shit job of it. He caused himself all kinds of problems without accomplishing his objective of exterminating the rebels.

The concept that dropping a 10,000 pound MOAB is good, but shooting someone with a hollow point bullet is a "crime" - is so bizarre as to be downright funny.
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Old June 12, 2019, 18:24   #21
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Duncan Hunter for POTUS, 2024.
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Old June 12, 2019, 20:12   #22
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Well,this is wat you get when you dismiss the notion of fighting like they did in the 1700's,of men standing in ranks,taking gentlemanly turns at blasting each other with 3/4 inch lead balls...
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Old June 12, 2019, 20:19   #23
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If voting really mattered, they wouldn't let you do it.
If you really believe that, why do you vote and why are you on a news and political forum?

That is just a cop out, so voters can vote for more of the same and then pretend they had nothing to do with the outcome,,,, of more of the same.

If voters and the citizenry didn't really support all the wars and warmongering they wouldn't keep voting for more it it, they wouldn't be buying all the bestsellers by those promoting it (usually chickenhawks), they would't volunteer to join, they wouldn't keep watching all the talking heads shows that agitate, promote and cheer it on, they woudn't work in the war industry, they wouldn't invest in the war industry and they wouldn't have booed Ron Paul when he suggested that we start treating our nations as we want to be treated.

But they do all that and more, what they don't want to do is PAY FOR IT, and that is why they are happy to keep voting for the pols that just heap it on the debt and let the next generations pay for it, or default on it.




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Old June 12, 2019, 20:23   #24
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All this talk of morality, protecting non combatants at all costs, with the COST to do that always being in your people getting killed, always gives me a chuckle.

It is immoral, criminal in fact, to line up non combatants and murder them, or to line up POW's and murder them.

If, non combatants, even POW's are situated around a military target, that gets bombed, destroyed, burned to the ground,,that is not immoral and not criminal.

If a city is producing war supplies, then the whole of the city is a legitimate target.

If the goal is to destroy the enemies will to resist, thinking Germany and Japan, then all concentrations of Germans and Japs are legitimate targets.

Germany and Japan were both warned, surrender now, or face ruin from the air never ever seen upon this earth.

Both decided to keep fighting, and both nations took it up the ass.

If the complete destruction of a whole large town/city full of enemy peoples, soldiers or civilians, will save just one of my peoples life's, them folks are all going to die.
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Old June 12, 2019, 22:20   #25
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The concept that dropping a 10,000 pound MOAB is good, but shooting someone with a hollow point bullet is a "crime" - is so bizarre as to be downright funny.
What I find strange is how so many here are outraged, OUTRAGED I tell you when some ghetto rat kills someone to take their money, or whatever else he wants, but find absolutely nothing whatsoever wrong with that when our military does the same on a larger scale.

Strange morals.




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Old June 12, 2019, 22:30   #26
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What I find strange is how so many here are outraged, OUTRAGED I tell you when some ghetto rat kills someone to take their money, or whatever else he wants, but find absolutely nothing whatsoever wrong with that when our military does the same on a larger scale.

Strange morals.
It is strange. I understand why a ghetto-rat kills someone to take their stuff. It is self-interest. And a belief that the consequences are less than the benefit.

I am totally ok with the US invading some other country to steal their shit. I am opposed to calling it "fighting for our freedoms". I am also opposed to invading other countries for the benefit - not of the American people as a whole - but for a small number of globalist bankers and corporate oligarchs.

Using force to secure resources is not fundamentally different on the subways of New York as in the oil fields of Iraq. The difference is the thug on the subway isn't pretending he's "fighting for our freedoms" or some other claptrap.

Bombing some middle-eastern country to rubble, if it resulted in $0.90/gal gas at the pump, is something most Americans would enthusiastically support.

Except after bombing them to rubble, spending trillions of dollars and thousands of young American lives - we give the oil rights to the Chinese. WTF?
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Old June 12, 2019, 22:43   #27
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I am totally ok with the US invading some other country to steal their shit.
I am not, I am with the founders that believed we should stay out of the affairs of others, engage in trade and lead by example.

Which oddly parallels the principles of most religions.
I am strangely consistent that way.





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Old June 13, 2019, 07:58   #28
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I am not, I am with the founders that believed we should stay out of the affairs of others, engage in trade and lead by example.

Which oddly parallels the principles of most religions.
I am strangely consistent that way.
So a big "NO" to Manifest Destiny? Revert the US to the original 13 colonies (if that) and give back the rest of the land to whatever root-digging indigs we stole it from?

Being consistently foolish is not a virtue.

Avoiding foreign entanglements is not the same thing as remaining neutral in all things.
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Old June 13, 2019, 11:08   #29
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All this talk of morality, protecting non combatants at all costs, with the COST to do that always being in your people getting killed, always gives me a chuckle.

It is immoral, criminal in fact, to line up non combatants and murder them, or to line up POW's and murder them.

If, non combatants, even POW's are situated around a military target, that gets bombed, destroyed, burned to the ground,,that is not immoral and not criminal.

If a city is producing war supplies, then the whole of the city is a legitimate target.

If the goal is to destroy the enemies will to resist, thinking Germany and Japan, then all concentrations of Germans and Japs are legitimate targets.

Germany and Japan were both warned, surrender now, or face ruin from the air never ever seen upon this earth.

Both decided to keep fighting, and both nations took it up the ass.

If the complete destruction of a whole large town/city full of enemy peoples, soldiers or civilians, will save just one of my peoples life's, them folks are all going to die.
yeah well the English tried that shit with the Irish and Scots
it really never turned out to well thinking by brutalizing Men's families you will break their will to fight
most cases you just piss people that may have been on the fence into jumping right off it.

Our Revolution started with a rather small minority of Patriots
Stupid English ended up pissing fence sitters off swelling what started as a minor insurrection.

In the Wars with the Irish the Crown royally shit the bed
here's a great link for you to indulge:

https://quoteinvestigator.com/2016/02/11/nits/

When that failed they doubled down on the cruel barbarity
mind you Scotland was only ever really semi pacified.

Someone brought up Lamay earlier
now there was a real idiot with junk in his trunk
This premise that if you kill enough, they stop fighting is pretty situational
you murder my family that won't really induce me to become compliant
it then runs into the ancient Code of Vendetta
I worry the seeds sown in the Sandbox will reap a truly bitter harvest over the long term.

WWII Japan
our fire bombings did nothing to shatter resolve there
despite popular thought, it wasn't our Nukes either
so why did the Emperor capitulate ?
Stalin, the Bull in the China shop
The Red Army was staging up to invade the Japans, the last thing Hirohito wanted was his islands broken into occupation zones. Read that the Reds were amping up to do a Normandy style invasion in 45'
up to that point America was figuring on just blockading. Truth was the Imperial military intended to give the lives of every Man, woman & child in defense of the Japans

You did know that there was a couple coups staged against the Emperor in 45' right ?
The surrender was purely tactical
sidebar is that it kicked off the Cold War as America broke with the agreements at Yalta in keeping the Soviets out of Japan. We assumed their Pacific Empire and just pissed Uncle Joe off all to hell

I maintain enormous respect for MacArthur in engineering all this
think of how shitty the world would have been otherwise.
While we lost Eastern Europe to the Reds we largely maintained control of the Pacific as an American ocean.

With regards to Mark's comments
I'm of the same mind
I really don't have issues with our going in to take resources, just doing it purely to benefit elites. We war for things everyone in America should see some dubious benefit

We spilled billions into Iraq
we should apply a toll in resources to compensate
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Old June 13, 2019, 12:23   #30
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yeah well the English tried that shit with the Irish and Scots
it really never turned out to well thinking by brutalizing Men's families you will break their will to fight
most cases you just piss people that may have been on the fence into jumping right off it.

Our Revolution started with a rather small minority of Patriots
Stupid English ended up pissing fence sitters off swelling what started as a minor insurrection.

In the Wars with the Irish the Crown royally shit the bed
here's a great link for you to indulge:

https://quoteinvestigator.com/2016/02/11/nits/

When that failed they doubled down on the cruel barbarity
mind you Scotland was only ever really semi pacified.

Someone brought up Lamay earlier
now there was a real idiot with junk in his trunk
This premise that if you kill enough, they stop fighting is pretty situational
you murder my family that won't really induce me to become compliant
it then runs into the ancient Code of Vendetta
I worry the seeds sown in the Sandbox will reap a truly bitter harvest over the long term.

WWII Japan
our fire bombings did nothing to shatter resolve there
despite popular thought, it wasn't our Nukes either
so why did the Emperor capitulate ?
Stalin, the Bull in the China shop
The Red Army was staging up to invade the Japans, the last thing Hirohito wanted was his islands broken into occupation zones. Read that the Reds were amping up to do a Normandy style invasion in 45'
up to that point America was figuring on just blockading. Truth was the Imperial military intended to give the lives of every Man, woman & child in defense of the Japans

You did know that there was a couple coups staged against the Emperor in 45' right ?
The surrender was purely tactical
sidebar is that it kicked off the Cold War as America broke with the agreements at Yalta in keeping the Soviets out of Japan. We assumed their Pacific Empire and just pissed Uncle Joe off all to hell

I maintain enormous respect for MacArthur in engineering all this
think of how shitty the world would have been otherwise.
While we lost Eastern Europe to the Reds we largely maintained control of the Pacific as an American ocean.

With regards to Mark's comments
I'm of the same mind
I really don't have issues with our going in to take resources, just doing it purely to benefit elites. We war for things everyone in America should see some dubious benefit

We spilled billions into Iraq
we should apply a toll in resources to compensate
"""Someone brought up Lamay earlier
now there was a real idiot with junk in his trunk
This premise that if you kill enough, they stop fighting is pretty situational
you murder my family that won't really induce me to become compliant
it then runs into the ancient Code of Vendetta
I worry the seeds sown in the Sandbox will reap a truly bitter harvest over the long term."""

Last time I checked,,,,neither Germany nor Japan have caused any more world wars,,,any wars in fact, since 1945 and their current military strength, is not really capable of even defending their own borders without American help and equipment.

Seems General Lamay was right on all accounts,,,he and others like him, destroyed enough of the enemy, and it was so bad for them, the survivors decided, not to wage war any more with anyone,,, for 75 yrs, now going strong into the foreseeable future.

As for the sand box,,,them people,,,will turn on anyone, for any reason, and if they don't have a current target,,,,will slaughter their own kind without hesitation.

War really is rather simple,,,kill enough of theirs,,they will stop fighting, then seek some form of peace.

If your enemy is still fighting,,,you ain't killed enough of them.

Last week, someone, placed mines on a few ships, blew holes in them, yesterday, someone sunk several ships, Iranian, in their harbors, and then this morning, someone torpedoed a few oil tankers.

Iran said they'd do this many times in the past, and now its being done.
Did they do it??? I don't know.

This escalation, can very well lead to outright war in that area.

At the speed, with which these events are happening,,,folks are most likely going to see first hand,,,how a real shooting war starts.

I'd expect an airstrike happening on a major Iranian oil transfer station shortly,,,if this follows along the normal path of escalation.

War, is the normal condition for human beings, once people accept this, world events are easy to understand.
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Old June 13, 2019, 12:36   #31
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So a big "NO" to Manifest Destiny? Revert the US to the original 13 colonies (if that) and give back the rest of the land to whatever root-digging indigs we stole it from?
A bit late to build some wooden ships from stolen lumber and sail back to where ever we came from.
But that doesn't mean we should keep perpetuating the crimes we did 300 years ago.

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S

Avoiding foreign entanglements is not the same thing as remaining neutral in all things.
No, and avoiding foreign entanglements isn't the same as being pacifists.



Besides all that, I suspect the time tested rape and pillage or conquer and exploit economic models are no longer financially viable in today's world.

When the Vikings, Romans, Spanish, British etc, were doing all that it isn't like the pillaged or conquered could retaliate in any real way.

But now with the world so easily traversed, the vulnerability of American embassies, bases, ships, soldiers, tourists and companies to physical attack or cyber attack, and the costs to defend against such has eliminated the 'profit' from such exploits.

I expect if you summed all the negative costs of maintaining the empire, troops, retirement, medical, weapons, foreign welfare and bribery, the massive anti terrorism organizations, airport security, etc and the effectiveness/costs of the attacks that do occur, 9-11, embassy bombings, domestic muzzies shooting up the discos and offices, US vets shooting up the discos and offices , taking in and supporting with welfare the war refugees and all the rest...... well we could just work and pay the market rate for oil and other resources.

Probably no coincidence that the nation, Switzerland that hasn't been at war for hundreds of years is also one of the most consistently high income, high education, and high tech.






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Old June 13, 2019, 12:55   #32
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A bit late to build some wooden ships from stolen lumber and sail back to where ever we came from.
But that doesn't mean we should keep perpetuating the crimes we did 300 years ago.



No, and avoiding foreign entanglements isn't as being pacifists.



Besides all that, I suspect the time tested rape and pillage or conquer and exploit economic models are no longer financially viable in today's world.

When the Vikings, Romans, Spanish, British etc, were doing all that it isn't like the pillaged or conquered could retaliate in any real way.

But now with the world so easily traversed, the vulnerability of American embassies, bases, ships, soldiers, tourists and companies to physical attack or cyber attack, and the costs to defend against such has eliminated the 'profit' from such exploits.

I expect if you summed all the negative costs of maintaining the empire, troops, retirement, medical, weapons, foreign welfare and bribery, the massive anti terrorism organizations, airport security, etc and the effectiveness/costs of the attacks that do occur, 9-11, embassy bombings, domestic muzzies shooting up the discos and offices, US vets shooting up the discos and offices , taking in and supporting with welfare the war refugees and all the rest...... well we could just work and pay the market rate for oil and other resources.

Probably no coincidence that the nation, Switzerland that hasn't been at war for hundreds of years is also one of the most consistently high income, high education, and high tech.






.................juanni

With less the population of NYC,,, Switzerland,,which can only feed about 35% of its 7.5 total population, had better not get out over their skies and start or be part of any war,,,in that they would cease to exist in about ten minutes.

And your constant use of Switzerland,,, as a role country model,,,well,,last time I checked,,New York City,,,has more money, more educated people, and ain't gone to war with anyone either.

Switzerland can't feed its tiny population, has no real use for anyone in Europe,,except for a place to hide stolen funds, fiance wars, and produce chocolate.
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Old June 13, 2019, 13:16   #33
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Old June 13, 2019, 13:16   #34
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Switzerland,,which can only feed about 35% of its 7.5 total population
And NYC can feed ZERO of it's population. So what is the point?


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And your constant use of Switzerland,,, as a role country model,,,well,,last time I checked,,New York City,,,has more money, more educated people, and ain't gone to war with anyone either.
New York city is directly at the source of all that newly printed debt, And the closer you are to the source the better the benefit, the farther away and you get destitute rural america.

I am not sure I would brag about how many 'educated' people there are in NYC which has one of the poorest performing standards of education and where if you show up and can fog a mirror they give you a degree.

But at least you apparently have figured out the before and after brain twister.



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Old June 13, 2019, 13:48   #35
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And NYC can feed ZERO of it's population. So what is the point?




New York city is directly at the source of all that newly printed debt, And the closer you are to the source the better the benefit, the farther away and you get destitute rural america.

I am not sure I would brag about how many 'educated' people there are in NYC which has one of the poorest performing standards of education and where if you show up and can fog a mirror they give you a degree.

But at least you apparently have figured out the before and after brain twister.



..............juanni.

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No other answer fits.
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Old June 13, 2019, 17:19   #36
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"""Someone brought up Lamay earlier
now there was a real idiot with junk in his trunk
This premise that if you kill enough, they stop fighting is pretty situational
you murder my family that won't really induce me to become compliant
it then runs into the ancient Code of Vendetta
I worry the seeds sown in the Sandbox will reap a truly bitter harvest over the long term."""

Last time I checked,,,,neither Germany nor Japan have caused any more world wars,,,any wars in fact, since 1945 and their current military strength, is not really capable of even defending their own borders without American help and equipment.

Seems General Lamay was right on all accounts,,,he and others like him, destroyed enough of the enemy, and it was so bad for them, the survivors decided, not to wage war any more with anyone,,, for 75 yrs, now going strong into the foreseeable future.

As for the sand box,,,them people,,,will turn on anyone, for any reason, and if they don't have a current target,,,,will slaughter their own kind without hesitation.

War really is rather simple,,,kill enough of theirs,,they will stop fighting, then seek some form of peace.

If your enemy is still fighting,,,you ain't killed enough of them.

Last week, someone, placed mines on a few ships, blew holes in them, yesterday, someone sunk several ships, Iranian, in their harbors, and then this morning, someone torpedoed a few oil tankers.

Iran said they'd do this many times in the past, and now its being done.
Did they do it??? I don't know.

This escalation, can very well lead to outright war in that area.

At the speed, with which these events are happening,,,folks are most likely going to see first hand,,,how a real shooting war starts.

I'd expect an airstrike happening on a major Iranian oil transfer station shortly,,,if this follows along the normal path of escalation.

War, is the normal condition for human beings, once people accept this, world events are easy to understand.
HYPOCRITE


let's see now...
How often have you defended Israel's right to lay waste to Earth ?
number of times
You blather NEVER AGAIN but yet miss this is not some Jewish thing, it's purely Human and when you persecute folks enough like our own people they get the ole' back up

what is so hard to understand here ?

Do you think you will make subjects of people by murdering their families ?
myself, I will just murder yours back times two, three or four
That's the true human condition and we have done it to each other for thousands of years

I love the Bigot speak about "them" & "those" Paul
post WWII we transformed the Axis into client States and continue to occupy them to a degree
To prevent Germany from being German some, maybe you support flooding it with "others"
Japan was awarded a far different peace though
we culturally weakened them greatly via westernization, that too will some day reap the whirlwind Paul

As far as Lemay's insanity just how well did all that pan out in your War...
bombing the shit out of folks

my opinion much of the reason we lost in Vietnam had much to do with the Lemay solution to conflict
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Old June 13, 2019, 17:40   #37
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Not many here can say that they considered voting for Wallace and LeMay; most of us who did vote, cowed out and voted for Nixon.

Up close and personal killing, is hard on soldiers, so many just use suicide bombs.
Drones are similarly hard on their operators.

The best ez killing comes from arty and B-52's. Snipers have a shelf life too.

If we did not talk the talk, no one would walk the walk, even if it ain't us.
It is all the same as it has been for 10,000 years.

The Romans and Normans who survived battles were not quite right either. Up close and personal, changes a man.
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Old June 13, 2019, 18:22   #38
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A bit late to build some wooden ships from stolen lumber and sail back to where ever we came from.
But that doesn't mean we should keep perpetuating the crimes we did 300 years ago.
Well, therein lies the disagreement. I don't think one group supplanting another is a "crime". That's kindof the point of this discussion. Who says it's a crime? It's just the nature of the world. Crime involves some agreed standard that another has violated. I submit that there is no agreed standard. We want, we try to take. By hook or crook. If we succeed, we then write the history and they don't matter.

As in modern war. The only crime is having your people defeated, because you were too wrapped up in "rules" to adopt a level of ruthlessness necessary to accomplish your goals.
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Old June 13, 2019, 18:36   #39
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Not many here can say that they considered voting for Wallace and LeMay; most of us who did vote, cowed out and voted for Nixon.

Up close and personal killing, is hard on soldiers, so many just use suicide bombs.
Drones are similarly hard on their operators.

The best ez killing comes from arty and B-52's. Snipers have a shelf life too.

If we did not talk the talk, no one would walk the walk, even if it ain't us.
It is all the same as it has been for 10,000 years.

The Romans and Normans who survived battles were not quite right either. Up close and personal, changes a man.
I refer to it as levels of madness V

Dropping shit from the air is one thing
Ground combat totally different

On the ground there are different levels as well
Shooting a Man many yards away with a rifle is one thing
doing the same mere feet away with a sidearm is totally different
when you deal it, that leaves an indelible mark on you always

killing a Man barehanded again is one thing
cutting his throat, smelling the gore as it's stench fills your lungs quite different

Many shit themselves in death as well
death is never pretty

unlike some here, I detest the odors of Human death
loathe Hospitals and nursing homes too for scents of demise
no stories to share, punks here have never bathed in blood. They are simply Virgins who watch too much boob tube and imagine into that sterile setting
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Old June 13, 2019, 19:00   #40
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Well, therein lies the disagreement. I don't think one group supplanting another is a "crime". That's kindof the point of this discussion. Who says it's a crime? It's just the nature of the world. Crime involves some agreed standard that another has violated.
Well certainly the 'international standard of rights of conquest of the past have evolved to international agreements against wars of aggression.

In the judgment of the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg, which followed World War II, "War is essentially an evil thing. Its consequences are not confined to the belligerent states alone, but affect the whole world. To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."

I would argue almost all of our recent wars were wars of aggression initiated by us, because they certainly not wars of defence or petty border disputes..




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Old June 13, 2019, 20:08   #41
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The real criminals are the banksters that buy the politicians who then manage to start the wars in the first place and then make trillions on theft and profiteering, in my humble opinion.
Like grandpa Bush? And other US industrialists who supplied Nazis during the war?

https://www.amazon.com/Traitors-Aust...s+frank+walker
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Old June 13, 2019, 21:07   #42
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HYPOCRITE


let's see now...
How often have you defended Israel's right to lay waste to Earth ?
number of times
You blather NEVER AGAIN but yet miss this is not some Jewish thing, it's purely Human and when you persecute folks enough like our own people they get the ole' back up

what is so hard to understand here ?

Do you think you will make subjects of people by murdering their families ?
myself, I will just murder yours back times two, three or four
That's the true human condition and we have done it to each other for thousands of years

I love the Bigot speak about "them" & "those" Paul
post WWII we transformed the Axis into client States and continue to occupy them to a degree
To prevent Germany from being German some, maybe you support flooding it with "others"
Japan was awarded a far different peace though
we culturally weakened them greatly via westernization, that too will some day reap the whirlwind Paul

As far as Lemay's insanity just how well did all that pan out in your War...
bombing the shit out of folks

my opinion much of the reason we lost in Vietnam had much to do with the Lemay solution to conflict
The discussion is total war,,,,but it does not surprise me at all when you fall back on bringing in Israel and the Jews into the conversation when all else fails you.

But since you did,,,,Israel has never waged total war, and never will,,,against our faith,,,,me on the other hand,,,being an American citizen, retired soldier,,,I'd not hesitate to lay waste to my enemy's and just be done with it.

Your opinions on the war in South East Asia,,,well,,,you were never there,,,so there's that.
We should have never been there in the first place, my opinion, but we were, and now we ain't.

My opinions on Germany are very well known.
After the shit they pulled, twice,, place would be a parking lot today. if I had my way.
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Old June 13, 2019, 22:09   #43
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The discussion is total war,,,,but it does not surprise me at all when you fall back on bringing in Israel and the Jews into the conversation when all else fails you.

But since you did,,,,Israel has never waged total war, and never will,,,against our faith,,,,me on the other hand,,,being an American citizen, retired soldier,,,I'd not hesitate to lay waste to my enemy's and just be done with it.

Your opinions on the war in South East Asia,,,well,,,you were never there,,,so there's that.
We should have never been there in the first place, my opinion, but we were, and now we ain't.

My opinions on Germany are very well known.
After the shit they pulled, twice,, place would be a parking lot today. if I had my way.
aw Shit, spare me

What was done at Jericho ya stubborn ole' fool
so you were stating it's against the faith ?
Bullshit
1st thing after leaving Moses behind that the Israelites did was wage absolute TOTAL WAR

Don't ply this Hippy Sippy version of history at me Paul. Israelites were tremendous warrior peoples
you want to make them up as just bobbing heads spinning dreidels. Get over that bullshit, read damn' Torah
what they did not murder they enslaved which has always been what people do Paul. I'm not slamming those ancients over that either. My opinion you want to just pussy up that history
Just Quit all that and embrace what the fuk we are

yeah I staged all this again, done it to you a couple times before Paul
you are very predictable

figured you would have to run with that ole' moral superiority line of jewyness. Clue on brother, it don't exist
the Laws of Moses only applied within the tribes so stop all that trash painting the people up as historical limp wristers
that shit appalls me
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Old June 13, 2019, 22:23   #44
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oh and by the way
WWI was started by the Austrian Hungarian Empire

At it's root was in applying huge tariffs on Serbian pigs

look into it a bit more than you apparently have
The Great War was not German inspired

the assassination of the arch Duke was merely the end of a long windy road leading to the conflict
but yeah, I get it...all you see are Germans
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Old June 13, 2019, 22:45   #45
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oh and by the way
WWI was started by the Austrian Hungarian Empire

At it's root was in applying huge tariffs on Serbian pigs

look into it a bit more than you apparently have
The Great War was not German inspired

the assassination of the arch Duke was merely the end of a long windy road leading to the conflict
but yeah, I get it...all you see are Germans
Yep, but far fewer at the end of WWII than in 1933.,,,
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Old June 14, 2019, 01:44   #46
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Yep, but far fewer at the end of WWII than in 1933.,,,
You just really don't get it do you

For every German supporting the Shoah there were likely three or four other Europeans clapping hands too
You want to depict as purely a German event, that's what you been taught & obviously believe when in fact the reality was greatly different.

Anti Jewish sentiment was rampant largely because they refused to integrate much
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Old June 14, 2019, 07:08   #47
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Don't forget - Le May also said "if we'd lost WE would have been tried as war criminals."

Funny stuff - Trump just pardoned a soldier for killing a naked POW...and everyone's clapping.

Not saying he should or shouldn't have....but the double standard is quite evident.
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Old June 14, 2019, 07:49   #48
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Well certainly the 'international standard of rights of conquest of the past have evolved to international agreements against wars of aggression. . .. I would argue almost all of our recent wars were wars of aggression initiated by us, because they certainly not wars of defence or petty border disputes.
Yes, conquest evolved to "don't take away what we've conquested"

Wars (and proxy wars) are primarily fought today, for access to resources (US, Russia, China); or because Islam is incompatible with a modern civilized world.

Rights to Lithium deposits in Afghanistan mean the same as rights to farmland in the Sudetenland. The resource has changed, but not the ultimate means to acquire.

China is using infiltration and manipulation, while Russia uses invasion, and US uses invasion while pretending we are the good guys.
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Old June 14, 2019, 08:01   #49
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...

Not saying he should or shouldn't have....but the double standard is quite evident.
Which begs the question as to why anyone but a five-star raging idiot pays any attention to this whole fiction of 'war crimes' ...
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Old June 14, 2019, 08:17   #50
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LeMay, Marshall, et al actually had the plan to in incinerate Axis cities prior to Pearl Harbor. LeMay was the mastermind behind this.

To their defense, they believed the populations would be demoralized sufficiently to overthrow the respective governments. In fact, in most cases it made people more committed to the national cause.
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