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Old June 10, 2019, 16:09   #1
jtyot
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How well does the FAL bipod work?

How seriously does mounting the bipod directly on the barrel affect accuracy? And is the change in point of impact static so you can fix it with zeroing, or is it more random? I keep reading about the wonders of a free-floating hand guard, but I haven't run into actual numbers on how big of a difference it makes.

I could get a FAL bipod for 90€ from Germany, but I'd like to know beforehand if they're totally useless. Another alternative would be a barrel-mounted picatinny rail that would allow more modern bipods as well as this type of fun foregrip mounting: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...s/DSC00043.jpg
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Old June 10, 2019, 16:25   #2
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The FAL is a Battle Rifle not a sniper rifle.

Yes, the bipod will affect the accuracy and will depend on how much weight you put on the bipod each time. So repeatability is not expected.

Get a bolt action with a free floating barrel if you thinking sub MOA. For minute of man then the FAL is your rifle.
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Old June 10, 2019, 16:30   #3
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They're pretty useless. They have points on the legs that are more for digging into soil. Also they are fairly long.
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Old June 10, 2019, 16:33   #4
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Mounting ANY appurtenance directly to a rifle barrel affects harmonics....period.

Having shot many Fal's with bipod attached I can say this...

The LEAST affected with having a bipod attached was my Stg-58. Which I'm pretty confident had alot to do with the Stolle device.

Using the barrel mounted bipod on a Fal generally turns a 2-3 MOA rifle, into a 3-5 MOA rifle. YMMV
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Old June 10, 2019, 16:35   #5
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Originally Posted by cavegeo View Post
Yes, the bipod will affect the accuracy and will depend on how much weight you put on the bipod each time. So repeatability is not expected.
Thanks, the varying weight didn't occur to me. Here the relevant question becomes, how much does it vary? A MOA or two between the extremes probably won't hurt too much.

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The FAL is a Battle Rifle not a sniper rifle.

Get a bolt action with a free floating barrel if you thinking sub MOA. For minute of man then the FAL is your rifle.
There's no need for this kind of condescending tone. At no point did I say I want sub-moa performance out of my 2-3 moa gun. I'm looking for something to make prone shooting more comfortable, the short mag makes shooting with a fairly high-mounted scope really uncomfortable.

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Originally Posted by 4x401 View Post
Mounting ANY appurtenance directly to a rifle barrel affects harmonics....period.

Having shot many Fal's with bipod attached I can say this...

The LEAST affected with having a bipod attached was my Stg-58. Which I'm pretty confident had alot to do with the Stolle device.

Using the barrel mounted bipod on a Fal generally turns a 2-3 MOA rifle, into a 3-5 MOA rifle. YMMV
Thanks, perhaps it doesn't make sense to waste my money on it then. I'll just stack sandbags under the gun or something instead.

Last edited by jtyot; June 10, 2019 at 16:37. Reason: more quotes
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Old June 10, 2019, 16:51   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtyot View Post
There's no need for this kind of condescending tone. At no point did I say I want sub-moa performance out of my 2-3 moa gun. I'm looking for something to make prone shooting more comfortable, the short mag makes shooting with a fairly high-mounted scope really uncomfortable.
Not being condescending just being honest. Not knowing why you were asking about using a bipod I had to make an assumption. Most who look to use bipod are usually looking for precision which is not what the FAL was designed for.

Shooting prone is not hard with a FAL and a twenty round mag. I usually only use a bag when shooting off a table. Going prone is not difficult just don't try it with those thirty round mags.
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Old June 10, 2019, 16:57   #7
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I would use a free float instead of your current rig with the grip. That's not very ergonomic if you were firing and then having to carry with the barrel exposed. You can then get short little folding bipod and attach to a rail on the free float like you mentioned.
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Old June 10, 2019, 16:57   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtyot View Post
There's no need for this kind of condescending tone. At no point did I say I want sub-moa performance out of my 2-3 moa gn. I'm looking for something to make prone shooting more comfortable, the short mag makes shooting with a fairly high-mounted scope really uncomfortable.

Thanks, perhaps it doesn't make sense to waste my money on it then. I'll just stack sandbags under the gun or something instead.
I don't see cavego's response as being condescending. He/we have no way of knowing your level of knowledge or expertise, nor did you in your initial post, state what your perceived need or purpose would be.

FWIW, I and many others hate the FAL bipod if the rifle is to be used for its intended purpose. The bipod is heavy, clunky, and noisy. It has a non-adjustable command height, which affects how comfortable it will be to use depending on the environment. VERY few countries opted for the bipod, presumably because of these issues. On the flip side, it was designed to be used by European troops in prepared defensive positions in a defensive mode, with the FAL utilized in full auto as an ersatz light machine gun ( a role in which it has very limited ability or utility ).. For that purpose it would possibly be useful within the overall limitations.

Is it comfortable off the bench ? For me personally, the answer is, yes, somewhat. However, I find it ending up a bit like a "crutch" and promotes bad shooting habits ( perhaps I should say it interferes with developing more important and useful basic shooting skills ). May I say that while much of my shooting is benchrested, it is really not a good way to develop adequate rifleman skills. JMHO, YMMV.

Regarding the scope. I have no idea of what set up you have or are considering, but I have some thoughts that I have found useful to me which I will share for your consideration. For me, the key to scoping a FAL is to select a scope which has enough eye relief to place the ocular lens AHEAD of the rear sigh. This, with proper ring and mount selection, allows the scope to be mounted quite low - for most foks a cheekpiece will not be necessary, a good cheek weld can be obtained without one. A common fault, as evidenced by most of the military scoping options, is to have the scope mounted high to clear the rear sight. This may have been necessary with the optics available at the time, but there really isn't much excuse for it if you choose a scope as mentioned above. I might add that I personally see no need for a high power scope with large lenses on a FAL - such large lenses also require mounting the scope higher. Most of my scoped battle rifles have had 1-4x variable scopes, and these come pretty close to co-witnessing with the iron sights. I have no issue with those folks who like high power scopes and very long range shooting , although to me I don't see the FAL as being a good choice for that sort of shooting. To each his own !
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Last edited by J. Armstrong; June 10, 2019 at 17:10.
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Old June 10, 2019, 16:59   #9
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Originally Posted by cavegeo View Post
Shooting prone is not hard with a FAL and a twenty round mag. I usually only use a bag when shooting off a table. Going prone is not difficult just don't try it with those thirty round mags.
The low prone due to short mag, short length of pull and chin weld due to high scope mount makes for a really difficult controtion problem that makes hitting anything really difficult for me. With irons it's a lot easier but still not that great.
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Old June 10, 2019, 17:08   #10
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IIRC moses beat every ones azz at a shoot one year using his bipod so .. there .. ya'll don't know everything ..

I use my bipod to keep my riFAL off the damn ground .. and it looks cool .. and I can shoot it one handed like moses .. and

Actually the riFAL I shoot has no bipod on it .. .. It screws up my harmonica ..
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Old June 10, 2019, 17:17   #11
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Thanks, perhaps it doesn't make sense to waste my money on it then. I'll just stack sandbags under the gun or something instead.
I'd send you one to play with, but I'm sure the shipping would be a killer...
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Old June 10, 2019, 17:36   #12
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Originally Posted by meltblown View Post
I would use a free float instead of your current rig with the grip. That's not very ergonomic if you were firing and then having to carry with the barrel exposed. You can then get short little folding bipod and attach to a rail on the free float like you mentioned.
That would be ideal, but those would likely be too expensive for me, plus finding one that ships to Finland would likely be a nightmare.

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Originally Posted by J. Armstrong View Post
FWIW, I and many others hate the FAL bipod if the rifle is to be used for its intended purpose. The bipod is heavy, clunky, and noisy. It has a non-adjustable command height, which affects how comfortable it will be to use depending on the environment.
Yeah, it doesn't sound all that appealing to me after this :v
Thanks for the warning!

Quote:
Is it comfortable off the bench ? For me personally, the answer is, yes, somewhat. However, I find it ending up a bit like a "crutch" and promotes bad shooting habits ( perhaps I should say it interferes with developing more important and useful basic shooting skills ). May I say that while much of my shooting is benchrested, it is really not a good way to develop adequate rifleman skills. JMHO, YMMV.
I don't even have ready access to a range that has a bench so it's not a priority for me. I'm interested in more IPSC style shooting.

Quote:
Regarding the scope. I have no idea of what set up you have or are considering, but I have some thoughts that I have found useful to me which I will share for your consideration. For me, the key to scoping a FAL is to select a scope which has enough eye relief to place the ocular lens AHEAD of the rear sigh. This, with proper ring and mount selection, allows the scope to be mounted quite low - for most foks a cheekpiece will not be necessary, a good cheek weld can be obtained without one. A common fault, as evidenced by most of the military scoping options, is to have the scope mounted high to clear the rear sight. This may have been necessary with the optics available at the time, but there really isn't much excuse for it if you choose a scope as mentioned above. I might add that I personally see no need for a high power scope with large lenses on a FAL - such large lenses also require mounting the scope higher. Most of my scoped battle rifles have had 1-4x variable scopes, and these come pretty close to co-witnessing with the iron sights. I have no issue with those folks who like high power scopes and very long range shooting , although to me I don't see the FAL as being a good choice for that sort of shooting. To each his own !
The fault lies mostly in my high rail and a mount that is too high, due to the fact that I had to eyeball the mount and scope dimensions. I only realized after having both that I could mount the scope a bit lower ahead of the sight. Right now it looks like this:

(scope is a 2-7x Leupold)

Leatherman for scale, it's about one inch above the iron line of sight, and 3-4" eye relief. The higher mount is very nice when standing or kneeling, only prone is problematic. Adding a cheek pad and maybe a short stock extender would probably fix most of my issues with it. I don't want to invest too much into the gun in the form of hand guards since I probably have to sell it due to full auto conversions getting banned soon.
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Old June 10, 2019, 17:41   #13
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Nice rig and scope. Yes it's very high. Is there anyway that you can get the railed dust cover like we have here? I don't think they would be all that hard to have shipped over. They run about $80 and a set of low mounted rings would get you what you want with a cheek weld.
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Old June 10, 2019, 18:00   #14
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Nice rig and scope. Yes it's very high. Is there anyway that you can get the railed dust cover like we have here? I don't think they would be all that hard to have shipped over. They run about $80 and a set of low mounted rings would get you what you want with a cheek weld.
Brownells imports the ones made by ARMS here at least, but they're out of stock right now, and they cost 215 € so I'm not really interested. Very few US-based stores ship internationally, so getting one from over there also seems difficult.
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Old June 10, 2019, 18:07   #15
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There are a few folks who can manage the FAL bipod and not have it completely screw up accuracy. I mean, I could probably ride a unicycle if I practiced enough.

For the most part, I think the FAL bipod serves the purpose of keeping the soldier's rifle from just lying in the mud. If you have to babysit it 24/7 in the field, you either gotta stow it, or hold it, or let it sit on the bipod. So, glorified gun rack. Its sturdy, if nothing else. That's my take on it.
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Old June 10, 2019, 18:12   #16
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I think the bipods are for troops that expected to be firing full auto prone in the face of the oncoming Russian hordes. Weight wouldn't matter. Germans and Austrians mostly I guess. I have a couple of the QD ones that look great on StG type rifles but don't seem really necessary if you have a rucksack to shoot off of.
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Old June 10, 2019, 19:11   #17
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Can you unbolt and remove that large scope mount from the dust cover mount? If so, you could probably replace that mount with a picatinny or weaver rail section and then obtain some weaver or picatinny low scope rings. Doing so would probably drop you scope height about 1˝ - 2 cm. For IPSC, you definitely need to get rid of that scope you currently have, although Leupold is a good scope, and replace it with a 1X4X24 or similar scope. IPSC requires quick shots and low powered magnification helps in this area. The 4 power magnification will enable you to hit IPSC targets out to 200-300 meters with no problem.
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Old June 10, 2019, 19:11   #18
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I agree with the general consensus that the original bipod as supplied on a 50.00 variant looks gawd-awful cool but screws up barrel harmonics as well as weight distribution. I, and I suppose most Falfilers, keep our bipods well oiled, and in our parts bin, rather than mounted on our rifles. Not having the bipod mounted makes for better off-hand and kneeling shooting, IMO.
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Old June 10, 2019, 19:35   #19
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Plus the scope mounts that are adapted from the sheet metal top cover aren't the most durable or consistent solution. If we canfind you a decent cover and set of rings, we could certainly bring your scope down to a more user friendly height. As far as I know there is no reason a private individual couldn't ship one to you. I throw that out there since I've never done it and there may be some regulation I'm not aware of. Let me research a litlle .......
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Old June 10, 2019, 19:42   #20
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Brownells imports the ones made by ARMS here at least, but they're out of stock right now, and they cost 215 € so I'm not really interested. Very few US-based stores ship internationally, so getting one from over there also seems difficult.
Sure you can find someone to ship for you with a decent set of rings if you pay the ride. Expect to spend $200 before shipping. If 215 euro makes you squeak, then I'd quit looking for other options that you're not going to find. At least you will save money.
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Old June 10, 2019, 20:00   #21
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There's no need for this kind of condescending tone. At no point did I say I want sub-moa performance out of my 2-3 moa gun. I'm looking for something to make prone shooting more comfortable, the short mag makes shooting with a fairly high-mounted scope really uncomfortable.
Lighten up, Francis. You ain't seen $hit for condescension around here if that got your panties in a wad.

The way your scope is mounted and adding the bipod will give you a whole new meaning to ain't shootin' fer shit with that combo. Unless you wanna be shooting at a 15 to 25 degree upward angle depending on your build.

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Old June 11, 2019, 07:51   #22
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The G1, StG58, Dutch, Danish and other FAL folding bipods work well during automatic firing and are likely more accurate in the elimination of enemy personnel than shoulder and hip automatic firing.
I find the best results is firing with a bipod prone is in a similar US 1918A1 BAR position.
I don't recommend using a scope with a FAL in bipod firing.
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Old June 11, 2019, 10:23   #23
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I've modified the AIM foregrip to fit my Izzy HB. They come with M-LOK slots that allow mounting of rail sections or whatever you like. I keep a rail section on the bottom that serves several purposes. I've mounted flashlights on it, forward grips, and occasionally a bipod if doing some prone work.

As others have said I think the factory bipod was meant for an impromptu LMG scenario from a dug-in position on a line and the use of tracer ammo. It's not very realistic from an accuracy standpoint, especially on lighter barrels and rather far out on the barrel creating flex. If you're watching where your tracers go compensation is easy, but not through glass.

The bipod I use is about 6 inches (15-16cm) tall and has adjustable length legs. Because it's on the handguard, which is bridged between the receiver and the gas block on a heavy barrel (which has been fluted and shortened to 42cm), it seems that it has minimal affect on point of impact. On a light barrel though I'm sure this would still be more significant, but likely not as pronounced as the factory bipod. My bipod also weighs less than a single leg of the factory steel version, which does matter when the barrel weighs so bloody much.

So not sure what you can change on your FAL if you plan to compete, but if you can get your hands on the AIM handguard is opens up a lot of options due the flexibility of the M-LOK design. Also, as others have stated, the railed top covers are far superior from both mounting and flexibility standpoints. It locks better to the receiver so it doesn't flex, and you can use a variety of scope mounting methods to get it exactly where it needs to be for eye height and relief.

Finally, your glass, while of great quality, isn't realistic from a run-and-gun standpoint (again as others have pointed out). While I don't compete in any way with mine I wanted to match my glass to the capabilities of the rifle. I've mounted a 1-8x on it. It lets me get hits on man-size targets to 500+ meters, as well as under 25m very quickly on 1x. My thinking is a 2moa rifle (mine has proven to be on the better side of FAL accuracy) will get likely hits to a 30cm circle at 500m, and the 8x lets me see that well enough to get the job done with a high hit probability. A 1-4x will certainly function to 300m pretty well, and there are a lot of them on the market from various makers at reasonable (here in the states, at least) prices.
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Old June 11, 2019, 11:09   #24
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Lighten up, Francis. You ain't seen $hit for condescension around here if that got your panties in a wad.

The way your scope is mounted and adding the bipod will give you a whole new meaning to ain't shootin' fer shit with that combo. Unless you wanna be shooting at a 15 to 25 degree upward angle depending on your build.

I know I am just setting myself up as a target here but for some reason I feel the need to weigh in on this. I felt like the OP asked pretty specific questions that could have been given specific answers from people who have had experience using bipods or free floated handguards on FALs. Instead he was given some good answers and at least one that was condescending. Not mean, but condescending none the less. Maybe we grade on the curve here and it was not as condescending as the normal responses that we have come to expect; but it was condescending. It is disappointing to me that we as a community find this standard acceptable.

The OP's response to the condescending answer was to simply call it out as condescending. I do not view calling something what it is as getting one's panties in a bunch. Rather, I define getting one's panties in a bunch when one accuses someone of getting his panties in a bunch when all he did was call something what it is.

Ultimately, I think this discussion was able to provide some useful information to the OP to help him make his decision. He just had to put up with a little bit of $hit along the way.

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Old June 12, 2019, 07:01   #25
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Rather, I define getting one's panties in a bunch when one accuses someone of getting his panties in a bunch when all he did was call something what it is.

Ultimately, I think this discussion was able to provide some useful information to the OP to help him make his decision. He just had to put up with a little bit of $hit along the way.
So what you are saying is that my reply made your panties get in a bunch too? So much condescension here. The good news is that you two will both live to another day.

I then gave my honest opinion regarding the scope and bipod combo. I am my moniker, perhaps you should be yours.

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Old June 12, 2019, 07:25   #26
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Old June 12, 2019, 12:14   #27
DakTo
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Seems ex-communicado Sourly Surly strikes once again.
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Old June 15, 2019, 20:47   #28
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So what you are saying is that my reply made your panties get in a bunch too? So much condescension here. The good news is that you two will both live to another day.

I then gave my honest opinion regarding the scope and bipod combo. I am my moniker, perhaps you should be yours.

Please re-read my post again. Ask an adult to help if you need to, I think you can eventually get it if you keep trying.
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Old June 15, 2019, 22:01   #29
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Please re-read my post again. Ask an adult to help if you need to, I think you can eventually get it if you keep trying.
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I know I am just setting myself up as a target here but for some reason I feel the need to weigh in on this. I felt like the OP asked pretty specific questions that could have been given specific answers from people who have had experience using bipods or free floated handguards on FALs. Instead he was given some good answers and at least one that was condescending. Not mean, but condescending none the less. Maybe we grade on the curve here and it was not as condescending as the normal responses that we have come to expect; but it was condescending. It is disappointing to me that we as a community find this standard acceptable.

The OP's response to the condescending answer was to simply call it out as condescending. I do not view calling something what it is as getting one's panties in a bunch. Rather, I define getting one's panties in a bunch when one accuses someone of getting his panties in a bunch when all he did was call something what it is.

Ultimately, I think this discussion was able to provide some useful information to the OP to help him make his decision. He just had to put up with a little bit of $hit along the way.
So which part of be your moniker don't you understand? You called me back and here you go. Reread and pointed out in red that your panties are in a bunch...AGAIN. I'm calling it what it is. Which word that you wrote are you not understanding?

BTW, this is NOT a fukn community...commies are part of communities. We're not fukn commies here...well maybe you are. Better you than me.

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Old June 16, 2019, 01:18   #30
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1st off, welcome to the FF.

AS Tac40 mentioned above, pull off the top mount piece, replace with a weaver rail, cheap, then add Weaver type rings for the scope.

Is it a 30 mm scope?

https://www.eurooptic.com/TRL-Vortex...t=Brands%20New

Weaver bases

http://www.weaveroptics.com/rings_ba...lti-slot_base/

Pick up the base, a little larger than your lower mount, drill and tap a couple of screws, a little JB weld, trim to final length with a hack saw, and now,, all solid, then add new rings for scope, all done, go shooting.

If you want to try a bi-pod, try one of these, scissor type, snaps on and off.

https://www.centerfiresystems.com/p-...ght-bipod.aspx
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Old June 16, 2019, 06:58   #31
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So which part of be your moniker don't you understand? You called me back and here you go. Reread and pointed out in red that your panties are in a bunch...AGAIN. I'm calling it what it is. Which word that you wrote are you not understanding?

BTW, this is NOT a fukn community...commies are part of communities. We're not fukn commies here...well maybe you are. Better you than me.

You are confusing commune with community:
Commune: a group of people living together and sharing possessions and responsibilities.
Community: a feeling of fellowship with others, as a result of sharing common attitudes, interests, and goals.

Asking me to be my moniker and then getting you panties in a bunch when I decline reminds me of the tactics that all the lefty libtards use; since you cannot articulate a reasonable response just get the other side to shut up. (Ironically that was a tactic of the communists as well, so ... gotta call a spade a spade). Personally I am a fan of dialogue, even if it requires me to sink down to the level you brought us to in this conversation.

If you choose to continue to make a fool of yourself at least try to use the correct words to describe your thoughts. As stupid as the points are that you are attempting to make, they become even more incoherent when your lack of vocabulary further obfuscates them. The dictionary is your friend, especially for big words. Again, if you need help ask an adult to show you how to use it.
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Old June 16, 2019, 09:05   #32
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You are confusing commune with community:
Commune: a group of people living together and sharing possessions and responsibilities.
Community: a feeling of fellowship with others, as a result of sharing common attitudes, interests, and goals.

Blah blah blah...
Root word of community is commune, commie. I have no feelings for or feelings of fellowship with commies, commie.

BTW, I still say the scope mount and bipod would be an elsucko combo if you were to actually shot it that way in the prone.

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Old June 16, 2019, 13:40   #33
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Root word of community is commune, commie. I have no feelings for or feelings of fellowship with commies, commie.

BTW, I still say the scope mount and bipod would be an elsucko combo if you were to actually shot it that way in the prone.

I will chase whatever rabbit you want to throw out there to distract from the fact that you have no idea what you are saying but you are only digging a deeper hole. Commune is not the root of community. They both share the same word origin which is the Latin communitas or communis meaning common. Obviously there is broad use of the idea of “common” in the English language and most of them, including community, have nothing to do with communism. The communists hijacked that word to attempt to provide a legitimate cover for their nefarious actions. You comparing community to communism only gives legitimacy to their lies. Name calling as a substitute for intelligent ideas is much closer to communism than the idea of a community.
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Old June 16, 2019, 20:53   #34
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Okay, commie. Whatever you say.

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Old June 21, 2019, 21:17   #35
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Axioms.

A bipod is the best bet for showing off yer FAL at a gun show.

The crowd here can be so rough it will take the hard chrome off a gas piston...

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Old June 22, 2019, 07:32   #36
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A minute of man rifle off a bag is still a minute of man rifle off a bipod. All the same weights and pressures are being applied to the barrel in both scenarios, it's just spread out a little more with a bag, depending on placement. These rifles don't suddenly and magically become free floating because the bipod is removed and they don't suddenly become 12 moa because the bipod is attached.

Personally, I leave them on, being a fan of historic accuracy. I don't use them on a bench because I consider them too tall, I use my range bag. If I have to lay on the ground and shoot prone, I'll use the factory bipod just fine.
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Old June 22, 2019, 11:05   #37
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A minute of man rifle off a bag is still a minute of man rifle off a bipod. All the same weights and pressures are being applied to the barrel in both scenarios, it's just spread out a little more with a bag, depending on placement. These rifles don't suddenly and magically become free floating because the bipod is removed and they don't suddenly become 12 moa because the bipod is attached.

Personally, I leave them on, being a fan of historic accuracy. I don't use them on a bench because I consider them too tall, I use my range bag. If I have to lay on the ground and shoot prone, I'll use the factory bipod just fine.
I see your point, but i wonder if there isn't also the issue of how "hard" or "soft"the support is. In other words, does the "soft" support hand or even a range bag absorb or buffer the barrel harmonics versus the "hard" bipod ? Don't claim to know the answer, just wondering if it is possible. I rather doubt that even if there is some difference that it would be significant.

I, too, left them on my G1s and, and I StGs back in the day for historical accuracy. Like you, I also find the lack of height adjustment to often be problematic
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Old June 23, 2019, 14:54   #38
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To me the bipod on one of my FALs in not totally useless as it acts as a good display tool. I never fired anything off of a bipod.

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