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The FAL Files Forums  »  Weapon Specific Forums » The HK Files » Century C93's at AIM surplus for 599.95
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Topic: Century C93's at AIM surplus for 599.95
FAL GRUNT
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Old Post October 27, 2009 16:43    Click Here to See the Profile for FAL GRUNT   Click here to Send FAL GRUNT a Private Message   Click Here to Email FAL GRUNT     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #51
quote:
Originally posted by gw11
[B]

What I said was this gun should be built with a Bolt Gap of .020" down to a .004" Gap which is the minimum that the gun will wear too before it needs to be redone. That has never changed and will not! If the gun is built correctly it should have a finished gap or .018-.020".

[B]


Got it. I just mis-understood.

If I can get my Colt AR sold, I'll be picking one of these up. Given what Allied Armament has said, I will hopefully get one built by them.

Thanks for the help!

-myers

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hagar
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Old Post October 27, 2009 16:54    Click Here to See the Profile for hagar   Click here to Send hagar a Private Message   Click Here to Email hagar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #52
Where is the best place to find a bipod? Some sucker on GB is selling them for over $100 each, he can keep them. Found another place selling it for $75 plus $11 shipping. I'm a cheapskate though, don't think they are worth more then $50!

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ThePitbullofLove
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Old Post October 27, 2009 18:47    Click Here to See the Profile for ThePitbullofLove   Click here to Send ThePitbullofLove a Private Message     Visit ThePitbullofLove's homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #53
quote:
Originally posted by hagar
Where is the best place to find a bipod? Some sucker on GB is selling them for over $100 each, he can keep them. Found another place selling it for $75 plus $11 shipping. I'm a cheapskate though, don't think they are worth more then $50!


Dani, there are bipods out there that are cheaper, but they are not HK. Promag makes a copy of the HK bipod that DSA used to sell for less than $50. It was not reviewed well.

If you want HK quality, you have to (over) pay for it...

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Ssarge
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Old Post October 28, 2009 00:48    Click Here to See the Profile for Ssarge   Click here to Send Ssarge a Private Message   Click Here to Email Ssarge     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #54
quote:
Originally posted by hagar
Where is the best place to find a bipod? Some sucker on GB is selling them for over $100 each, he can keep them. Found another place selling it for $75 plus $11 shipping. I'm a cheapskate though, don't think they are worth more then $50!

http://www.robertrtg.com/g3.html
Get your bipod here for $75:
DSA has an exact replica for $49:
http://www.dsarms.com/HK91_93_33-St...ductinfo/PM083/

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JohnnyReb
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Old Post October 28, 2009 01:29    Click Here to See the Profile for JohnnyReb   Click here to Send JohnnyReb a Private Message   Click Here to Email JohnnyReb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #55
quote:
If they are choosing .012 then they are purposely selling an inferior firearm that will wear quickly and require replacement.


Just thinking out loud here.....

Is it possible that they want that bolt gap because it is built with a used bolt & locking piece?

I wonder what the gap would be if you immediately put new parts in it? Maybe .018-.020?

If they started at .018-.020 with the used bolt & locking piece wouldn't you be unable to put in new parts down the road without the gap being way beyond .020?

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Last edited by JohnnyReb on October 28, 2009 at 01:57

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allied armament
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Old Post October 28, 2009 01:45    Click Here to See the Profile for allied armament   Click here to Send allied armament a Private Message   Click Here to Email allied armament   Visit allied armament's homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #56
You're on the right track, used trunions, used locking piece, used carrier, used bolt. These are not new guns and its safer to set them middle range on a mass production schedule and for the most part its a cheap fix. +2 +4 rollers will greatly increase that gap. Also there is the proposition of buying a new locking piece or having the barrel pressed in further. The first two options obviously are the most cost effective and for $599, who cares


quote:
Originally posted by JohnnyReb


Just thinking out loud here.....

Is it possible that they want that bolt gap because it is built with a used bolt & locking piece?

I wonder what the gap would be if you immediately but in new parts in it? Maybe .018-.020?

If they started at .018-.020 with the used bolt & locking piece wouldn't you be unable to put in new parts down the road without the gap being way beyond .020?


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mp
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Old Post October 28, 2009 02:41    Click Here to See the Profile for mp   Click here to Send mp a Private Message   Click Here to Email mp     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #57
quote:
Originally posted by allied armament
You're on the right track, used trunions, used locking piece, used carrier, used bolt. These are not new guns and its safer to set them middle range on a mass production schedule and for the most part its a cheap fix. +2 +4 rollers will greatly increase that gap. Also there is the proposition of buying a new locking piece or having the barrel pressed in further. The first two options obviously are the most cost effective and for $599, who cares


Gonna have to call BS on this one. I build FAL's with used parts, but I don't try install a locking shoulder that gives me anything but the proper headspace. I know they are not the same weapon system, but I have never heard of any assembly that involves "guessing" the future headspace.

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allied armament
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Old Post October 28, 2009 05:46    Click Here to See the Profile for allied armament   Click here to Send allied armament a Private Message   Click Here to Email allied armament   Visit allied armament's homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #58
Its not guessing the headspace, you have a range from .004-.020 Century keeps it in the middle, for ease of production. Your crazy

quote:
Originally posted by mp


Gonna have to call BS on this one. I build FAL's with used parts, but I don't try install a locking shoulder that gives me anything but the proper headspace. I know they are not the same weapon system, but I have never heard of any assembly that involves "guessing" the future headspace.


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tankerfrank
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Old Post October 28, 2009 08:57    Click Here to See the Profile for tankerfrank   Click here to Send tankerfrank a Private Message   Click Here to Email tankerfrank     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #59
here is good youtube on bolt gap and how to fix it,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFESb8TK7ZA

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gw11
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Old Post October 29, 2009 10:02    Click Here to See the Profile for gw11   Click here to Send gw11 a Private Message   Click Here to Email gw11     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #60
mp

You are absolutely correct! And allied armament is absolutely Wong!

allied armament can throw out all the Bull he wants and it will not correct the Fact that these C93 Guns are assembled wrong!

The best quote is this one!
quote:
Originally posted by allied armament
You're on the right track, used trunions, used locking piece, used carrier, used bolt. These are not new guns and its safer to set them middle range on a mass production schedule and for the most part its a cheap fix. +2 +4 rollers will greatly increase that gap. Also there is the proposition of buying a new locking piece or having the barrel pressed in further. The first two options obviously are the most cost effective and for $599, who cares


What a batch of Shit!
Lowering the Guns Life Cycle from 10,000 rounds to [what? 3-4,000 rounds?]



All he knows is he got to build Shit Guns and now he says Who Care's!

Last edited by gw11 on October 29, 2009 at 23:46

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allied armament
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Old Post October 31, 2009 01:19    Click Here to See the Profile for allied armament   Click here to Send allied armament a Private Message   Click Here to Email allied armament   Visit allied armament's homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #61
Listen here "GW" we are set up to build a thousand guns a month, we know what were doing, but Century set a spec and they had a reason for it. These guns go for $599 at Aim right now, if you can build one better than do so, but get off your high horse! The spec can be changed by a competent smith that works with HK's it may cost a little bit, and if I had it my way i'd raise it, not only because thats where it needs to be but because people like you demand it. We only do what Century tells us to our best ability, sorry thats not good enough for you, and its not our product its theirs. I'm just saying its a good product for the money, and if you want to go into production and show us how its done be my guest.

quote:
Originally posted by gw11
mp

You are absolutely correct! And allied armament is absolutely Wong!

allied armament can throw out all the Bull he wants and it will not correct the Fact that these C93 Guns are assembled wrong!

The best quote is this one!


What a batch of Shit!
Lowering the Guns Life Cycle from 10,000 rounds to [what? 3-4,000 rounds?]



All he knows is he got to build Shit Guns and now he says Who Care's!


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allied armament
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Old Post October 31, 2009 22:07    Click Here to See the Profile for allied armament   Click here to Send allied armament a Private Message   Click Here to Email allied armament   Visit allied armament's homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #62
When we originally bid on the contract, we sent in ten guns. 6 in black 2 in park and these 2 color birds.




The goal was to bring a new level of quality to Century. On the sample guns we had refinished every part, and gave a quote for painted guns. We also welded them like the originals, trust me I <3 HK guns like no other and I know what people want. Unfortunately, we had to go very basic with the guns, but it is a smoking deal. I'm working on acquiring some kits and most likely we'll go into building Allied Spec HK 53's.

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gw11
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Old Post October 31, 2009 22:15    Click Here to See the Profile for gw11   Click here to Send gw11 a Private Message   Click Here to Email gw11     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #63
allied armament

I am sorry if I offended you.

But if you have the Balls to set up Good Unknowing Fellow Falfiles Members about something that you built and promote, I Sir have the Balls to make light of this intended Sham.
By Century or by You a Sham is what this is.

If anyone still wishes to purchase one of these Rifles I believe I have posted enough info for them to make the necessary corrections to make your Garbage a little Better.

I do offer you One more Option!

Prove any of my comments about the defects of these guns your building as wrong and I will Willingly go away!


gw11

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allied armament
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Old Post November 01, 2009 17:39    Click Here to See the Profile for allied armament   Click here to Send allied armament a Private Message   Click Here to Email allied armament   Visit allied armament's homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #64
GW11 I believe you are absolutely right about the short sighted thought process Century has taken, but it is still a good deal for the money. The next most comparable rifle in this platform is over a 1000 + Range (like a V93, or actual HK93). For $599 i'd roll the dice all day long. We build the guns, we know what the parts look like and know what condition there in. We also know what kind of tooling it is built on, and even though the guns have the shorter life span from the decreased headspace, we know that the tooling these guns are assembled on are far superior than any small builder or even what Vector had/has. We have over $30,000 in alignment fixtures and barrel press's. Why do you think people are getting such good accuracy and reliability out of the guns. I've only heard 1-2 reports of people having a fussy gun where everyone else has a shooter. The bottom line is, yes they could have made a very nice wall hanger/safe queen, but instead they made a kick ass shooter for a fraction of the price, take it for what it is.


quote:
Originally posted by gw11
allied armament

I am sorry if I offended you.

But if you have the Balls to set up Good Unknowing Fellow Falfiles Members about something that you built and promote, I Sir have the Balls to make light of this intended Sham.
By Century or by You a Sham is what this is.

If anyone still wishes to purchase one of these Rifles I believe I have posted enough info for them to make the necessary corrections to make your Garbage a little Better.

I do offer you One more Option!

Prove any of my comments about the defects of these guns your building as wrong and I will Willingly go away!


gw11


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gw11
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Old Post November 01, 2009 18:12    Click Here to See the Profile for gw11   Click here to Send gw11 a Private Message   Click Here to Email gw11     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #65
I don't know, This took ten minutes! Need more?

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=112901
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111676
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/showthre...t=111676&page=2
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=112827
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=113070
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=9&t=293910 Receiver spreading
http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tp...935/m/986107571
http://militaryfirearm.com/Forum/sh...?t=12104&page=4
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=109680
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=113517
http://www.militaryfirearm.com/Foru...ead.php?t=13983

gw11

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Opie
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Old Post November 01, 2009 18:28    Click Here to See the Profile for Opie   Click here to Send Opie a Private Message   Click Here to Email Opie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #66
quote:
Originally posted by W.E.G.


Put this in your pipe and smoke it.



and




Thanks Gary...That was extremely informative! Alwayse nice to learn something new!

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allied armament
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Old Post November 01, 2009 20:35    Click Here to See the Profile for allied armament   Click here to Send allied armament a Private Message   Click Here to Email allied armament   Visit allied armament's homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #67
Gary

I want you to know I just wrote a huge love letter to Century telling them that they need to raise the headspace on the gun from .006-.012 to .014-.020 and to remove that rediculous weld from the front of the gun. If they listen, you won't ever have to complain again. I used your links below for reinforcement.

Thank You,

James M


quote:
Originally posted by gw11
I don't know, This took ten minutes! Need more?

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=112901
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111676
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/showthre...t=111676&page=2
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=112827
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=113070
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=9&t=293910 Receiver spreading
http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tp...935/m/986107571
http://militaryfirearm.com/Forum/sh...?t=12104&page=4
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=109680
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=113517
http://www.militaryfirearm.com/Foru...ead.php?t=13983

gw11


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countyman
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Old Post November 04, 2009 01:56    Click Here to See the Profile for countyman   Click here to Send countyman a Private Message   Click Here to Email countyman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #68
Allied Armament, PM sent.


quote:
Originally posted by allied armament
You're on the right track, used trunions, used locking piece, used carrier, used bolt. These are not new guns and its safer to set them middle range on a mass production schedule and for the most part its a cheap fix. +2 +4 rollers will greatly increase that gap. Also there is the proposition of buying a new locking piece or having the barrel pressed in further. The first two options obviously are the most cost effective and for $599, who cares




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gw11
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Old Post November 05, 2009 02:08    Click Here to See the Profile for gw11   Click here to Send gw11 a Private Message   Click Here to Email gw11     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #69
Nice to meet you James M.

George

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allied armament
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Old Post November 05, 2009 03:51    Click Here to See the Profile for allied armament   Click here to Send allied armament a Private Message   Click Here to Email allied armament   Visit allied armament's homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #70
Its on honor George . I hope we can get this resolved with Century, they still have not responded to me.

quote:
Originally posted by gw11
Nice to meet you James M.

George


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Rudolf
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Old Post November 11, 2009 17:59    Click Here to See the Profile for Rudolf   Click here to Send Rudolf a Private Message   Click Here to Email Rudolf     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #71
for the money I think its worth it. The only thing needed is the mag flapper and then its good to go.

Once again, I thank James for bringing another .223 option into the market for cheap.

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maxhush
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Old Post November 11, 2009 18:44    Click Here to See the Profile for maxhush   Click here to Send maxhush a Private Message   Click Here to Email maxhush     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #72
quote:
Originally posted by allied armament
Its on honor George . I hope we can get this resolved with Century, they still have not responded to me.


Do you have a non-compete agreement with Century? What's to keep you from making and marketing your own made the right way?

Last edited by maxhush on November 16, 2009 at 22:11

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allied armament
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Old Post November 11, 2009 20:01    Click Here to See the Profile for allied armament   Click here to Send allied armament a Private Message   Click Here to Email allied armament   Visit allied armament's homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #73
We are on a non compete agreement, and at the prices they can sell them for I wouldn't want to compete. I truly believe for the money you can't find a better deal. All the range reports i've been reading lately have been nothing but positive. However, we are going to make and sell our own HK53. Most likely this will be in pistol form and sold through Atlantic Firearms. Keep your eyes peeled for it. It should be very affordable and a top notch weapon

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andresere
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Old Post November 19, 2009 02:41    Click Here to See the Profile for andresere   Click here to Send andresere a Private Message   Click Here to Email andresere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #74
quote:
Originally posted by mp


Gonna have to call BS on this one. I build FAL's with used parts, but I don't try install a locking shoulder that gives me anything but the proper headspace. I know they are not the same weapon system, but I have never heard of any assembly that involves "guessing" the future headspace.


mp, correct me if I am wrong, but it would seem that comparing the two rifles in the aspect of how you get correct headspace is apples and oranges. FAL- 3 gauges, G3-CETME-C93...a set of feeler guages. Does this make sense to you, because it does to me. I guess BLUF is with the FAL, it's either right or it's wrong. With the other rifles, there is a whole lot more wiggle room. I can understand that if you were to put NIW parts into a used parts kit you could very well exceed the .020 threshold.

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gw11
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Old Post November 19, 2009 10:00    Click Here to See the Profile for gw11   Click here to Send gw11 a Private Message   Click Here to Email gw11     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #75
andresere

Or you could pay additional funds for and install all new parts and change the Bolt Gap by .005" or Less? So what have you gained?

If you had a New Bolt [$280.00 -$295.00] to replace a used bolt with .001" to .003" wear at the forward contact surface of the Rollers [which is common] you may gain .0035"-.0095" is gap.
If you replace a worn Locking Piece [$80.00- $95.00] you may gain [usually] .003" - .005" Gap.

And if you happen go over .020" you could always use "Minus 2 or Minus 4 Rollers for another $14.00 ea.

So if purchasing a "Used Parts" New Build 93 for $599.00 with an intended Gap of .005" - .008" that will lower after a hundred rounds too .004" or Less in an attempt to duplicate a Used Gun, that also [by chance] duplicates a Worn out gun that has already Fired 18,000-20,000 rounds, on the premise that you can always spend another $400 or so on to make it right, is what you need to do to float Your Boat, then by all means go there!.

Don't forget to have Fun!

gw11

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andresere
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Old Post November 19, 2009 13:39    Click Here to See the Profile for andresere   Click here to Send andresere a Private Message   Click Here to Email andresere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #76
I don't have a dog in this fight, I was just asking a question. The only weapon I have like this is a CETME, and it took some work to undo what Century did. It works great now.

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The Opinions, Views and Comments expressed by the members of this forum are their own and do not necessarily state or reflect those of The FAL Files or any of it's agents. the FAL Files does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity or quality of these messages and opinions, and does not perform an independent investigation to verify their truth or accuracy. All posted messages are the sole responsibility of the person from which such post originated. The FAL Files assumes no liability in any way for the content of any posted message or opinion, including, but not limited to, any errors or ommissions in any posted message.
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