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Old August 11, 2019, 15:58   #1
Jarhead504
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Anyone here shoot a 16" AR-10?

My kid is going to get an upper for his CMMG lower assembly, but he thinks he wants the 16" barrel in .308. I don't know why. I am partial to 20" or > with a .308, but that's because I'm a jarhead and that's all I've ever known. Also, he want one with a chrome-lined chamber and bore and those are even harder to find. That would have to be something he would have to put together for a CMMG lower.

I'm trying to steer him to the 24" CMMG in 6.5 Creedmore as seen on the netweb videos as they have the capability for extreme accuracy. It is very impressive what the shooters are getting from that 24"/6.5 Creedmore combination.

What are the pros and cons of the AR-10 .308 in 16"? I can see quick handling but I'm not sold on the idea of a 16" .308. Is it just another 300 yard rifle? He has a LMT machined DSA Para with a 16" barrel already, so an AR-10 in 16"?

TIA,
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Old August 11, 2019, 16:23   #2
kfranz
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I have one but I only use it to pop balloons at 100 yds. It has a $20 field sport or some such red dot. It was cheap enough that I said wtf not get something different than the FAL's. Wish I could get one cheap like that in 8mm to help blow through that stack of ammo cans...
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Old August 11, 2019, 16:39   #3
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Primary Arms has a few of the 16" fully chrome lined FN made heavy profile AR-10 barrels with M4 type feed ramps for about $260 IIRC.
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Old August 11, 2019, 17:32   #4
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Yes, an ArmaLite AR10 carbine assembled on an A2 carry handle upper.
Outfitted with a 3.5x ACOG and more importantly, for sanity, a Noveske KX3 (pig) to mitigate muzzle blast.
A great shooter out to 500m, but not tried it longer range.
It's my *go-to hell, go-to war, run through the woods* rifle.
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Old August 11, 2019, 17:33   #5
hueyville
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I bought six DPMS Oracle AR 10's with 16" barrels for a super cheap price last Black Friday. Already had two and two more since as LGS gets a shipment. While most are still in the box have two set up with binary triggers and suppressor mounts using the OEM 16" barrels. Also have a 16" FAL and without a suppressor prefer not to shoot any of them. Two of them pulled the barrels and replaced with 20" 6.5 Creedmore tubes and free float forearms which worked out like a dream.

I am in the process of gathering parts and barrels so that have as many M1a/M14's and AR 10's in 6.5 Creedmoore than 7.62◊51. Having a 308 muzzle blast 16" from my face is not enjoyable. I can tolerate 18" and prefer 20". 16" makes a good suppressor host but if don't have a can ready to mount would only buy a 16" AR 10 for the reason I did. They were dirt cheap made with all top quality DPMS parts.

LGS was selling them at $599 out the door but if bought multiples got a further discount and when bought the Black Friday six pack almost ashamed to say what paid and was told to keep it private as didn't want everyone in town to know their margin. Recently saw an online vendor selling them for $559 shipped to your FFL. I can't buy the parts minus a barrel and forearm that cheap usually. May as well buy complete rifles then when want a different barrel length or cartridge just swap the barrel and a couple other parts to please and put the original parts in the spare parts lockers. A kid might like muzzle blast in his face.
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Old August 11, 2019, 17:42   #6
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I have one.

DPMS LR-308-T

Very well-made. Reliable. Accurate. Well-balanced.

And it shoots .308.

If you are regularly shooting distance greater than 300 yards, there are better choices.

If you are shooting greater than 300 yards in the wind, you still need to make a correct wind-call, even if you are shooting the 6.8 Eargeschplittin Loudenboomer
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Old August 11, 2019, 18:55   #7
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I have an Armalite AR-10B carbine with a 16 inch barrel. Very accurate and reliable. I did decide to put a Troy Claymore muzzle device on the barrel to help mitigate the concussive muzzle blast. Made a big difference. Still creates an impressive fireball when shot. I hesitate to run suppressed due to the twist rate Armalite uses. 11 1/2, I believe. People in the next lane don't seem to like it much when it goes off. Can't say I blame them. It will shoot circles around my FAL, but the ergo's fall short what I have with the FAL.
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Old August 11, 2019, 21:34   #8
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How is he intending to shoot with said potential rifle? General-purpose blasting carbine? Yea, 16" is fine. Long-range precision? I wouldn't have a 16" .308 with what what approaches 7.62x39mm ballistics. A 6.5x.308-type cartridge gives you much better ballistics.
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Old August 11, 2019, 21:44   #9
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Nah, my POF P-308 has a 14.5" barrel with a pinned brake. But , I'll only shoot out to 500yds. with it. 1 in 10 " twist.
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Old August 13, 2019, 05:43   #10
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Have a Rock River 16 incher with brake and 1x6 scope. Very accurate if you shoot 168 grains through the 1::10 barrel. Have not had it out past 600 yards, and it be LOUD under a roof. It is set up for suppressor use, and alot handier than long barrelled version. As others say, very good under 300 yds. Much handier than a full size at closer ranges, and rare for me to actually be firing in a line with others.
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Old August 13, 2019, 08:50   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.E.G. View Post
I have one. DPMS LR-308-T. Very well-made. Reliable. Accurate. Well-balanced. And it shoots .308.

If you are regularly shooting distance greater than 300 yards, there are better choices.

If you are shooting greater than 300 yards in the wind, you still need to make a correct wind-call, even if you are shooting the 6.8 Eargeschplittin Loudenboomer
^^^^^^+1^^^^^^^
To the point, good info and funny. I seldom name guns like some I know do but dropping off a Remington 700 in 308 found used with my riflesmith soon as have time to get by. He retired from gunsmithing a couple years ago then last year his son retired from his lifetime job as a machinist and dad is training son how to build what are some of the finest heavy bench rifles and mid weight field rifles have ever owned or fired. Has some NRA records that have stood over a decade using his favorite wildcat cartridge he designed.

The 700 is going to be ripped apart and only the action, stock and fire control system used after its all blueprinted, massaged, squared, bedded and barreled with a 6.5 Creedmoor tube using his proprietary muzzle brake design that have on several rifles. When I take my big 7mm Practicals and 7mm Mags to the range when crowded by shot three half the folks there are packing up to go home. Try not to do such unless range is crowded with yahoo's doing mag dumps with AK's and other foolish cap which one thing I can say is that the ban on bump fire stocks has made the public range much more tolerable. Believe will have him engrave the tube with "6.5 Eargeschplittin Loudenboomer" (Credmoor)

I will never abandon my 308's but after several million dollars of taxpayear money spent by dot mil folks they released a study that says the 6.5 has 60% greater odds of hooking up with bad guys at ranges of 600 to 1,000 yards than the 7.62◊51 in same weapon. They used precision turn bolts, AR 10's, SCARs and converted M14's. Less recoil, less wind drift and less bullet drop. Much easier to dope a shot whether working the shot out in a range finding reticle or using a laser range finder with annenometer and ballistics app. I still like a good reticle and a range card but for longer shots over a varmint field carry what looks like a NOAA weather study assortment of equipment to dope shots on ground hogs and coyote.

All kinds of trades and balances to consider. Putting a suppressor on a 20" barrel is unweildy. I would prefer a 14.7" with pinned adapter to get my 16" but the $549 Oracles don't ship that way so swap the flash hider for suppressor adapter with muzzle brake and just have to annoy anyone at range (including myself) if don't snap a can on it. A 16" 308 is personal preferance and suggest you find one that someone will let son shoot next to a 20" at same time before he marry a short tubel
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Old August 13, 2019, 18:59   #12
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Thank you my brothers and of course Brother Hueyville. When I get my Harley and go on my BCR and FALaholic tour, I will find you in the Foothills of the Blueridge Mountains and sit around for days talking about everything over some sassafras tea or sumptin'. I have been avoiding corn ssquezzins' since 1980 so I may be somewhat reluctant to imbibe, especially since I 'll be on my Harley on them mountain roads.

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Old August 13, 2019, 20:48   #13
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Thatís what cots and skeeter nets is for. Sleep next to the bike. Fart all you want. Canít smell it over the gas vapors.
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Old August 14, 2019, 14:18   #14
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I will be on a Harley myself and do not drink. Find it a waste of money and last two times had a couple drinks back before quit totally in 2004 had the burglar alarm pop at work. Having to drive knowing was possibly one drink over the limit to meet the cops to disarm alarm and sweep building was a pain in @$$. Seemed like anytime a friend broke down and needed help, etc was the evening decided to have one drink more than should and drive legally so just quit totally.

As to sleeping while riding bikes, Hampton Inn. Run business off a Delta Skymiles card and household off a Hilton/Hampton Honors card. Have accumulated so many points have not paid for an airline ticket or hotel room in CONUS since before Y2k. If pay them off end of month and have good rewards cards then it's a great thing. Nothing better after a long days ride than that premium bedding that Hampton Inn uses. Always clean and let us park bikes under awning so counter person watching even with alarms and seats are dry in the morning.

Edit: After spending the day visiting doctors (like to stack as many of my clinical visits possible same day) had time to visit my favorite local gun shops. Noticed a 16" DPMS Oracle 308 on the rack and assumed LGS had found another dealer clearance. The three LGS I tend to visit when have time buy Oracles, Smith M&P 15's and similar baseline name brand rifles in bulk when find deals as us cheap jerks want to walk out the door at $599 or less for an AR 10 and $399 for an AR 15.

Turned out to be one of the $599 Black Friday rifles a guy who thought he wanted an entry level AR 10. Had he bought a nicer AR 10 he may have been happier but his chief complaints were excessive muzzle blast and muzzle climb if tried to fire rapidly. Claimed less than 100 rounds through it since purchased and after LGS cleaned it well it looked almost new except for a few minor handling marks plus obvious signs magazine had been in and out of mag well at least a few times. He traded it for an 18" DPMS 3Gun MK12 5.56 and I know the game on trade ins. Many will buy a rifle from Buds or similar if LGS does not have new in stock and pay LGS to handle 4473 rather than scoop up a bargain on a used rifle. Either way they will usually deal on a trade in.

Thus now the owner of another 16" DPMS Oracle 308 out the door for $499. Guy who traded said was 100% reliable but just more rifle than he wanted after a few trips to the range. Also think price of 7.62 ammo versus 5.56 may have been a contributing factor. He brought it in with original box, papers and had not even lost the chamber flag yet. Said he only had the one factory magazine which means even if did a few mag dumps had to let it cool while restuffed the magazine. They moved the scope to his new Mk 12 AR 15 but left both front and rear BUIS sights on it. Now that I have a new to me but used rifle means it will have to be put in service. Came home to do a little Web scrounging and found a "6.5 Eargeschplittin Loudenboomer" (Credmoor) upper minus the BCG which do not need for $329.

This will be my first 18" length 6.5 as normally swap 20" tubes on. Upper is a new build (assume by seller or distributor) around a stainless Ballistic Advantage Premium Series 18" Heavy Contour 1:8 mid length barrel on DPMS upper with M Lock free float forearm, standard birdcage flash hider and had "only one left" on clearance for $339. That is a $290ish barrel with $100 handguard and $100 upper receiver. If not their last unit would have bought at least two. When find built cheaper than able to build on bargain parts means buy it, rip apart and put back together correctly. Have a 5/8"◊24 AAC 51T Brakeout muzzle brake since will be my shortest 6.5. When use at range without a suppressor people will just have to get over it or buy good hearing protection. Amazes me the people who use pistol bullets, cigarette filters or share muffs and whoever is not shooting uses the finger in ear method. I would like to know how many dB a cigarette butt or 9mm bullet is rated to attenuate. I will pay double sometimes to get an extra two to four dB rating on similar feature muffs.

My quandary is do I rip apart the 16" used upper and square the used DPMS receiver or just rip apart the 18" upper and square the new DPMS upper receiver. Eventually both will need it so likely will be putting the new DPMS upper in a box for now and the 16" barrel in locker tagged as lightly used along with a pile of others. While not a true premium barrel by my definition the stainless Ballistic Advantage tube deserves to be put on a squared upper and all torque values be confirmed. Only two complete Palmetto uppers bought in past tore them down then reassembled along with a passed of problem Palmetto uppers belonging to others. Have torn enough uppers apart now find it easier to do before first trip to range than after unless luck into a complete White Oak, Daniel Defense, SIG, Colt (collector purposes) or other upper from companies known to do things right.

Have AR 15's in lengths from 7.5" up to 26" with 14.7" and 18" being my favorites am really excited to have my first 18" 6.5 inbound. When Springfield released the M1a SOCOM in 16" was bothered as was unwilling to spend that much money on a rifle knew would upset me and had to wait what seemed like twenty years before they offered it in 18". If the 18" "6.5 Eargeschplittin Loudenboomer" shoots well will likely soon have another 18" barrel incoming. Also need to find a deal in some 22" and/or 24" tubes but a pair of nice 20" is all found thus far. If going to shoot 6.5 not going to cut corners or try to save too much money and in 22" to 26" seems decent tube start at $375 and go up to $750 quickly with best selection in the mid $400's. Did find a 22" for $99 and 24" for $111 that were sold as "perfect for NRA across course" use. Not putting a $99 barrel on a rim fire unless it's a heavily clearanced item.

Being a barrel snob sucks, want to be a scope snob but usually by time finish a build am hunting through parts locker, seeing if a low use rifle in safe could sacrifice its glass for a scope not quite as nice, clearance and sale items online, etc to scope my builds. My theory is its easy to upgrade the glass when have spare cash or find a deal. Thus Vortex scopes seem to be finding their way onto more builds than the Leupolds had grown accustomed to and the pre-Asia all USA Burris.

In talking to my smith about the upcoming 6.5 turn bolt build he will be doing asked me if wanted him to go ahead and order in a March (his preferred glass) and had to say no. He was telling me how the March 2.5-25x 52mm was perfect for what I am building but at $3,500 not happening. Told him had a 6-24x 50mm Nikon Black FX1000 (much as I dislike Nikon scopes not had issues with the Black line yet) sitting on the glass shelf bought at a steal and not had any issues with the other that lives on a 6.5 AR 10. The turn bolt 6.5 won't see near the abuse but likely won't do his build justice and be a place holder till find a good scope can afford to swap on it. Will admit it's not as nice as my Vortex Viper*PST*GEN II 5-25X50 FFP but can buy three of the Nikon Blacks for cost of two Viper PST's with enough money left for a decent barrel. Three or four weeks ago we installed four of the Vortex PST 5-25x scopes on rifles for same guy. Had bought one a couple weeks earlier, used it twice and ordered in four to go on appropriate rifles. Some day if Art ever comes home to discover all his rifles are safely where he left them but 3/4 are missing their scopes and mounts he might not have to guess who borrowed them...

If Nightforce, March, Leupold, US Optics, Zeiss, Steiner, etc wanted to send me about three dozen assorted upper tier scopes have rifles that deserve them. Would also take lots of pictures and find really nice things to say about them. Losing my $19 billet AR receivers and $100 Lothar barrel hookup has not helped.
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Last edited by hueyville; August 14, 2019 at 20:57.
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Old Yesterday, 06:51   #15
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What does he want to do with it?

I had a psa 10 build with a 16 inch barrel from criterion, chrome lined in .308 win. My friend shot it a bunch when I was in new mexico. He rang an 8 inch gong 10 for 10,at 800yds with m118lr ammo.

The wind was in our face and obviously our dope had some pretty serious elevation adjustments. I probably wouldn't attempt to take game at that distance, but steel is another story.
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Old Yesterday, 17:08   #16
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I have a build on a Mega receiver set with a Criterion 16" rifle gas system. Sweet shooter, I generally don't shoot past 400 or 500 with it.
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Old Yesterday, 21:34   #17
bfoosh006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarhead504 View Post
My kid is going to get an upper for his CMMG lower assembly, but he thinks he wants the 16" barrel in .308. I don't know why. I am partial to 20" or > with a .308, but that's because I'm a jarhead and that's all I've ever known. Also, he want one with a chrome-lined chamber and bore and those are even harder to find. That would have to be something he would have to put together for a CMMG lower.

I'm trying to steer him to the 24" CMMG in 6.5 Creedmore as seen on the netweb videos as they have the capability for extreme accuracy. It is very impressive what the shooters are getting from that 24"/6.5 Creedmore combination.

What are the pros and cons of the AR-10 .308 in 16"? I can see quick handling but I'm not sold on the idea of a 16" .308. Is it just another 300 yard rifle? He has a LMT machined DSA Para with a 16" barrel already, so an AR-10 in 16"?

TIA,
Jarhead
If he already has a 16" DSA, then he is aware of the muzzle blast from it.

I have a 18" FN 1n12 barreled PSA PA10 upper, and it can shoot great groups.
I lapped the upper receiver face, and Loctited in the barrel.

Best group yet, 10rds Hornady AG 155gr, 100yds, bagged, benched, scoped.. ( guess who flubbed the flyer )




Here is a link to a FN CHF CL 16" 1n12 twist ( same twist as mine ) not cheap... but...

And I can't quite tell the gas system length. Mid-Length ?... it is clear out on the smaller journal portion of the barrel.
https://www.pmarmory.com/ar-308-barr...achfcl762b.htm

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