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Old October 20, 2018, 09:38   #1
paulo
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XM177

Does anybody still make decent XM177 uppers?

Thanks
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Old October 20, 2018, 15:58   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulo View Post
Does anybody still make decent XM177 uppers?

Thanks
''Double Star'' in kentucky ; They hard a few at KCMGS last weekend .

''Tonys'' in ohio also .

https://www.tonyscustomsllc.com
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Old October 20, 2018, 17:21   #3
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Brownell's sells all the parts you need to build one as well as a no-SBR version as a complete unit. The bare uppers and lowers are from Nodak Spud. Brownell's complete rifle comes black instead of the originals grey. However, the bare receivers can be had in grey or black. Can build an XM177 or the GAU-5. Have built up one in 5.56 and 300 BLK. 5.56 barrel is a 1/12 twist. 300 barrel uses 1/7 pistol gas with dummy front sight tower for carbine hand guards. Both came out nice. Had to make my own moderator for the 300. Troy offers complete rifles as either XM177 or GAU-5 and are the more correct of the two.
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Old October 20, 2018, 19:34   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fly2.0 View Post
''Double Star'' in kentucky ; They hard a few at KCMGS last weekend .

''Tonys'' in ohio also .

https://www.tonyscustomsllc.com
I wouldn't touch anything Tony makes with a 10 foot pole. Guy is unhinged and way overpriced not to mention some of the uppers I have examined were built incorrectly. Want to see him lose his shit? Ask him if he uses any parts from Model 1 Sales as its run and owned by his ex-wife...
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Old October 20, 2018, 20:20   #5
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I wouldn't touch anything Tony makes with a 10 foot pole. Guy is unhinged and way overpriced not to mention some of the uppers I have examined were built incorrectly. Want to see him lose his shit? Ask him if he uses any parts from Model 1 Sales as its run and owned by his ex-wife...


Forrest
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Old October 21, 2018, 07:25   #6
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Thanks for the info. Anyone have dealings with the following? Tonys was on the list until I read this. I don't know much about Model 1, didn't they have CC issues awhile back?

https://retrorifles.com/

https://www.tntesales.com/
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Old October 21, 2018, 09:35   #7
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Quote:
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I wouldn't touch anything Tony makes with a 10 foot pole. Guy is unhinged and way overpriced not to mention some of the uppers I have examined were built incorrectly. Want to see him lose his shit? Ask him if he uses any parts from Model 1 Sales as its run and owned by his ex-wife...
That's good to know . I do know he is a mouth peace most of the time . lol..
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Old October 21, 2018, 12:13   #8
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Brownells has my good mates over at PWS machining the forgings they get from Nodak Spud for their line of retro rifles so they are going to be very well made if you wanted to buy parts from them. I have no experience with anyone else listed other than Nodak and they have always been excellent to purchase from.

There is a forum over at ARFCOM devoted to retro rifles and you might glean more information about who is GTG on this subject than here.
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Old October 21, 2018, 15:31   #9
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I’ll have a look over at Arfcom, also give Brownells a looksee.
Thanks for the replies.
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Old October 21, 2018, 15:42   #10
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My two cents from building an an XM177, get a retro grey upper and lower from Nodak spud. You’ll have to wait, but it will be worth it. Next get a carbine retro profile barrel with non-F marked sight tower and send the barrel to John Thomas at retro arms works to remove flashing, bayo lug and chop the barrel. He makes a faux moderator and will pin weld to 16” oal. Then He’ll parkerize to match the nodak grey upper. You can go Brownells but their grey color is a little off. The retro forum at ARFDOTCOM is a great resource.

My builds.



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Old October 21, 2018, 16:19   #11
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Those are.......great looking! Why remove the bayo lug were they not on the Comando version?
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Old October 21, 2018, 18:09   #12
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Great looking rifles, rbgonoles. Beautiful execution right down to the silent slings. Bayonet lugs got milled off to save a little weight because the bayonet wouldn't work with the XM moderator. Often times the front sling swivel was removed as well due to the use of canteen carry straps and para cord to make silent slings. All done without any metal parts to keep things sneaky quiet in the bush.

So many variations used during the early commando days with the XM177 and GAU-5 series that it creates a temptation to keep building just one more.

No SBRs here in Michigan means mine had to be a wee bit longer in the barrel and get pinned and welded to be legal. Still looks bad assed.
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Old October 21, 2018, 18:21   #13
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Thanks, that makes sense the bayo lug thing. They do look bad ass.
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Old October 21, 2018, 18:35   #14
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Another good resource

http://www.retroblackrifle.com
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Old October 21, 2018, 21:16   #15
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Check these guys.

http://https://www.tntesales.com/5-5...l-style-upper/
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Old October 21, 2018, 22:39   #16
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I just put the flash suppressor/grenade ring on my Commando. There are many differences compared to an XM177E2 but the basic look is there.
When I take that stuff off the muzzle I still have a 733.

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Old October 22, 2018, 09:05   #17
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Poor picture but first clone I ever did was a XM177 done on an Oly lower with Colt upper and Colt 1:12 barrel chopped as short as possible for the fake Moderator to bring it up to 16". Need to drag it out and take a better picture and swap barrel at least to 1:9 or faster twist as will not shoot 62 grain bullets straight. 55's will hold up for 100 yards before begin the tumbling tumble weed deal but 62's are tumbling at 25 yards. It likes Black Hills 52 grain factory loads fairly well and why have left it alone. Did this in the late 1980's with help from a Vietnam Get that carried one in the field.

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Old October 22, 2018, 09:19   #18
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Easily my favorite AR configuration and there are some sweet looking clones in this thread!
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Old October 22, 2018, 09:54   #19
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I also built a 727 clone which is a handy light rifle.

upload photo
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Old October 22, 2018, 21:07   #20
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Gave mine a look-see after work (didn't get home till 8:00 pm and 11+ hour work days in the field kick my @$$) but didn't fool with pics just surveyed it and what it really needs and doesn't. It has an old military issue upper receiver which is pretty correct but need to change out the Delta Ring. It has the correct Colt two position CAR stock, teardrop forward release, Colt barrel from correct vintage but is either shot out, crown needs repair or be happy shooting 55 grain and under projectiles. The Olympic lower has no fence around to magazine release and except for some light electro-pencil scribbling is fairly darn close to what it's supposed to look like.

If leave serial number alone since the machining is rough could a person legally scrub the Oly elecro-pencil engraving off while cleaning up the machine marks or at least smooth it out that a squirting of Cerakote be applied in a manner to virtually make it look like some pre refinish wear marks? So many people are having Nodak lowers stamped or laser engraved down to the Colt logo how far can one go before they cross any legal lines as my Oly lower would only take a single very shallow pass to clean up their markings or are these original early Oly lowers worth more as an Oly? Bet it could be taken down just by block sanding it enough that a clone stamp or laser engraving followed by refinish would wipe it.

The pistol grip is old, SP1 vintage at the latest and possibly early militry as the guy who helped me had boat loads of military parts he said were left over from his later years as an armorer before finished up his 20 and retired. Have the original bolt carrier group in a bag. What I would like to do is scrub anything legal, have a little engraving or stamping done, swap to Delta Ring along with the barrel to 1:7 so no worries about ammo and then Form 1 a Moderator using one of the longer versions like I have that brings it to 16" but bore it and see if a baffle stack can be dropped in that reduces sound signature better than the original enough to almost call it a real suppressor. With my top end being Colt milspec from correct generation along with stock and pistol grip it's a darn good start. Find me an 11.5" Colt 1:7 barrel and Form 1 a slightly fatter and longer than original Moderator, restamp the upper, swap out for correct charging handle and might be a super fun re-clone of my clone.
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Old October 23, 2018, 17:35   #21
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Have a flat Delta Ring along with the most authentic charging handle could find to drop in my Moderator clone. Currently has a nickle chrome plated bolt carrier group while original was located in my box of OEM parts marked "not to be lost". Ordered a 5.5" fake Moderator flash hider with largest O.D. could find along with a 6" slimline flash can just to monkey with. Want to try and wrap my head around some form of device that will appear somewhat correct but to anyone with a clue be instantly obvious is not but has the look of a proper Moderator but can Form 1 it and get more sound signature reduction than a real Moderator. Found a Form 4 Moderator true clone for $270 but add $200 stamp and not worth $500 for almost no real sound suppresson.

Think the slimline flash can with a grenade ring added, baffle stack made and then figure out a way to machine some faux flash hider slots will be a workable solution and beauty of a Form 1 device is pretty much just have to stick to external dimensions and serial number on form and if have to chop up a couple of attempts at baffles before come up with a design that works best it's just scrap metal and time. Also looking at different 5.56 rated suppresors could just order based on smallest outside diameter and then add grenade ring and print a wrap that gives it the appearance in photos or from ten feet or more of a Moderator.

Either do a Form 1 faux a Form 4 slimline suppressor or get over it and not worry about sound suppression then add flats and grenade ring to what I have or use the 5.5" fake Moderator on the way and order appropriate 1:7 barrel to reach 16.01"+ as not happy with current clone not stabilizing 62 grain projectiles. Could just as easily cut tack welds on upper have currently while on pistol lower or near one, machine flats, add $10 grenade ring, put it all back together and weld it back up but if going to effort want to not worry about which ammo picked up. Tired of only shooting 52 grain projectiles when it's out of the vault and still not as correct as could be.
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Old October 23, 2018, 18:18   #22
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1:7 with fake moderator is what I’d do (did).
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Old October 23, 2018, 19:09   #23
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Thanks for all the responses, leads, tips, photos and insperation. Time to gather parts. These are addicating too.😈
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Old October 24, 2018, 08:21   #24
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Just in time...

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Old October 24, 2018, 09:59   #25
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Why does the Forgotten Weapons picture above have a fence around the magazine release? Thought a proper XM177 clone didn't have a fence around the mag release...
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Old October 24, 2018, 10:24   #26
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Its an XM177E2
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Old October 24, 2018, 11:51   #27
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It's actually a 639. Per Ian "The Colt Model 639 was the export version of the Colt Model 629, which was type classified by the US military as the XM177E2 and issued to MACVSOG special operations units in 1967 and 1968. Improved from the Model 609 carbine"

Here's the Morphy Auctions page https://auctions.morphyauctions.com/...LOT452816.aspx

Last edited by fal762; October 24, 2018 at 11:52. Reason: add auction page
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Old October 24, 2018, 13:24   #28
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Yes, you are right. All XM177E2s are Model 629s; but not all Model 629s are XM177E2s.
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Old October 24, 2018, 14:51   #29
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The 639 in the video looks to be diddled with. The front sling swivel should be roll pinned in place and not set with a rivet. Here is my 639 for a comparison:





My 639 upper is on the bottom while a Rick Kuehl .22lr conversion upper on the top.





As an aside, here is how my 639 was shipped to the original owner from Aeromarine. At the time, the original owner was the Sheriff of an east Texas county.











My 639 was manufactured by Colt in 1972. Recall letters for the XM177 moderators (which had been ruled as suppressors by ATF) went out from Colt in February 1975 to all previous non-military purchasers of XM177s. The moderator for this weapon was registered in October 1975.
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Old October 24, 2018, 15:45   #30
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Thanks for sharing. That's impressive!
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Old October 24, 2018, 17:24   #31
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Thanks for sharing. That's impressive!
On a final note; The magazine that came with my 639 was a 20 rounder having a .223 marked floor plate.

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Old October 24, 2018, 18:53   #32
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If going to clone, I am going as early as possible but with parts have coming would not be hard to do an XM177 and XM177E2 as well so have my bases covered as did with Mk 12 Mod 0, Mod 1, Mod H and working on a Mod H in 6.8 just to be doing.

None of these have fences though some be fuzzy & hard to tell:







Early Air Force CAR-15 not XM177:



Have boxes of Colt marked .223 magazines squirrelled away to go with my SP1 collection.
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Old November 09, 2018, 14:59   #33
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Crummy pics, but examples of stuff left in vn. Lower one in top pic is a partial fenced gun.
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Old November 10, 2018, 17:11   #34
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Those old picture's bring back many memory's .
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Old November 10, 2018, 20:33   #35
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Quote:
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No SBRs here in Michigan means mine had to be a wee bit longer in the barrel and get pinned and welded to be legal. Still looks bad assed.
???

It's been a few years since I lived there, but I remember SBR's being fine there. Of course, there's the whole "Michigan pistol" concept, but nothing specifically against SBR's.

Retro AR's are a rat hole I've been desperately trying to resist, mostly because my wallet and wife would hate me something fierce.
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Old November 11, 2018, 02:50   #36
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RO629 and RO635

The only difference between the Colt RO629 Commando and a the Colt RO639 at the time was the addition of the Delta ring and the model number of MOD 639.
I own a RO629 Commando and a RO635 9mm and the RO635 didn't come with a brass brass deflector, It was only the fourth one off the assembly in 01/04/1986 according to Colt.
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Old November 17, 2018, 08:05   #37
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Some awesome pics and great info. I've settled on the XM177E2 version.
retrorifles.com has their version upper on sale for $567.00. Seems like a decent price? I have looked around some and by the time I gather all the parts I would be close to that price.

These thing are addictive.
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Old December 04, 2018, 14:01   #38
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The 639 that Ian showed went on auction for $27k.
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Old December 05, 2018, 08:22   #39
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Quote:
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(Trim)
Retro AR's are a rat hole I've been desperately trying to resist, mostly because my wallet and wife would hate me something fierce.
Wallet already hates me and wife likes poodle shooters as battle rifles are too heavy and she can't take the recoil without a sandbag between stock and shoulder or Leadsled with her bone issues. That said she surprisingly traded her 14.7" 5.7x28 AR in lock under the rear seat of her truck for my 10.5" Noveske 6.8. when she saw a video of 5.56 and 6.8 going through a car door and hitting a steel popper, the 5.56 would just ring the plate and rock it a couple inches on its springs and the 6.8 was going through door then laying the popper almost flat and she knew the 5.7 was more anemic than the 5.56 she stole my favorite 6.8 truck rifle. Had to build another 10.5" piston drive 6.8 for my truck.
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Old December 05, 2018, 10:14   #40
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I would discourage any Filers from ordering with TNTE (top notch top ends) in Darien, WI based on personal experience with them.
Shady and dishonest are adjectives I would use to describe.
They sell on GB, too.

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Quote:
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Thanks for the info. Anyone have dealings with the following? Tonys was on the list until I read this. I don't know much about Model 1, didn't they have CC issues awhile back?

https://www.tntesales.com/
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Old December 05, 2018, 18:10   #41
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Ten Tea,
I have heard/read similar experiences. Thanks for the heads up.
Going with retro rifles.
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Old December 05, 2018, 18:15   #42
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Troy still builds the XM177E2 and the Air Force GAU 5
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Old December 05, 2018, 18:29   #43
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I’d like someone to mfg a 639 clone, short bbl and all as an SBR. The non-NFA clones are cool but I’d be willing to go thru the steps/paperwork/fees to acquire a true clone. I realize that I could go thru everything required and build one myself but I’d rather buy an as-is NFA, complete SBR.
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Old December 05, 2018, 19:45   #44
paulo
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So, the retro rifle build has the removable moderator, does that make it an SBR iffin you mate it to your lower?
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Old December 06, 2018, 21:09   #45
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Not hawking services as always helped with uppers for Files members for free but have decided to start selling AR 15 and AR 10 uppers on my website. Feel I am now building better uppers than most vendors until start spending White Oak Armament or Compass Lake Engineering kind of money so may as well see if I can subsidize my hobby a bit and help those that visit my site then decide want a better upper but not buy $500 in specialized tools to do the job meticulously. Also might help thin all the extra 5.56 barrels if build will have to also build a lower and then top with glass before putting in a vault with all the others.
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Old December 07, 2018, 05:36   #46
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hueyville, what is your web site addy?
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Old December 07, 2018, 21:50   #47
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www.CoolAR15.com

www.ChurchSecurityVolunteers.com

Two currently working on then have a half dozen or more to fix then another dozen URL's to build content for.
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A time will come when people will not listen to accurate teachings. Instead, they will follow their own desires and surround themselves with teachers who tell them what they want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3 G.W.T.
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Old December 08, 2018, 20:36   #48
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I did the brownells 11.5 barrel found a moderator on gun broker. Used a colt a1 kit and a nodak lower.
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Old December 09, 2018, 12:11   #49
Uriah Lee
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Is your 11.5 inch Brownell's barrel a one in twelve twist? It's what my unit worked out to be. Ideal for launching 55gr bullets as well as for when the CMMG .22 conversion adapter is used. Not so good with the heavies with that slower twist rate. They tend to get end over end and wander a bit.
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