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Old February 11, 2019, 15:11   #1
Whydah
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Don't taze my penis, Bro!

This news article doesn't say who it was driving this vehicle without a license unless I just missed it. But the two Arizona officers were demanding that the passenger show them HIS driver's license. When he refused the cops amped it up, eventually pulling his from the vehicle and then tazering him 11 times. They even pulled his shorts down and threatened to taze his penis after already tazeing his balls! A bit much for a simple traffic stop wouldn't you say? Obviously tazers are not the less that lethal tool as first advertised. Its turned into a compliance tool.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/body-came...7-traffic-stop
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Old February 11, 2019, 15:43   #2
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I bet the dude shows his ID next time.
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Old February 11, 2019, 16:43   #3
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Maybe he wasn't carrying it, I don't carry any ID unless I must drive.

Watched the video, it should cost about a million and the cops jobs.

Last edited by Bawana jim; February 11, 2019 at 16:52.
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Old February 11, 2019, 17:46   #4
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I bet the dude shows his ID next time.
He was under no legal nor constitutional responsibility to 'show his papers"!
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Old February 11, 2019, 17:58   #5
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He was under no legal nor constitutional responsibility to 'show his papers"!
True. It's going to be dicey though if he was wanted. Dude is in prison on burglary charges. Plus he had meth written across his forehead. I'm sorta on the fence. Tweaker burglar off the street, but the tazing crap does piss me off
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Old February 11, 2019, 20:11   #6
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Hmmm,

Surprisingly it wasn't New Mexico cops. Sounds like their MO. They didnt sick the dog on him then shoot him or take him to the hospital to get rectally probed so hes way ahead of being arrested by New Mexico cops.

Probably gonna get a life changing some of money in a few years.

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Old February 11, 2019, 20:24   #7
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Hmmm,

Surprisingly it wasn't New Mexico cops. Sounds like their MO. They didnt sick the dog on him then shoot him or take him to the hospital to get rectally probed so hes way ahead of being arrested by New Mexico cops.

Probably gonna get a life changing some of money in a few years.

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Old February 13, 2019, 08:13   #8
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He will win, then most likely die of a drug over dose.......
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Old February 18, 2019, 08:42   #9
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True. It's going to be dicey though if he was wanted. Dude is in prison on burglary charges. Plus he had meth written across his forehead. I'm sorta on the fence. Tweaker burglar off the street, but the tazing crap does piss me off
I’ve been told by multiple police in Texas that failure to identify I.e. show your papers with a valid ID can get you “detained” until you are identified.
Up to and including being brought in to the station for ID.

Of course I’m no lawyer, but how do you identify without identification?
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Old February 19, 2019, 11:42   #10
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I’ve been told by multiple police in Texas that failure to identify I.e. show your papers with a valid ID can get you “detained” until you are identified.
Up to and including being brought in to the station for ID.

Of course I’m no lawyer, but how do you identify without identification?
"Identity" doesn't always mean show ID. The minimum threshold most places is name and birth date.
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Old February 19, 2019, 12:53   #11
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Originally Posted by johnnycobra View Post
I’ve been told by multiple police in Texas that failure to identify I.e. show your papers with a valid ID can get you “detained” until you are identified.
Up to and including being brought in to the station for ID.

Of course I’m no lawyer, but how do you identify without identification?
if this is done in the state of Tx, it is an illegal detention.
There is no requirement to show ID unless or until an individual is subject to a lawful arrest or traffic stop and that individual IS ENGAGED IN ANY ACTIVITY WHICH REQUIRES A LICENCE, such as driving.
Riding as a passenger requires no license and a traffic stop does not apply to any passenger.
Consequently detaining someone for lawfully refusing to surrender ID cannot be legally done as a primary charge or basis of suspicion of a crime.
Refusal of ID can only be applied as a secondary charge persuant to a different lawful primary charge.

Lawful detention requires specific articulable facts which would lead a reasonable individual to a bonafide conclusion or legitimate suspicion that a crime has been committed, is about to be, or is in the process of being committed.

paraphrased from Terry vrs Ohio ^^^^


In Tx:
Penal code 38.02

part A. ID required in the event of lawful arrest.

part B no requirement to ID in event of detainment for witness purposes, only a crime if an individual gives false ID information .

Add edit: in Tx the above also applies to CCW, CCW is considered ID and lawful concealed carry alone is not considered valid grounds for a Terry stop.

Terry vrs Ohio lawfully applies in AZ but I don't know if AZ has the same law as 38.02.
If so, then that passenger had every right to not surrender ID to that cop. Best or safest thing to do as a passenger? Roll the pass side window up, lock the pass side door and do not say a word to the cops. Under a circumstance such as that, we are not required to consent to any conversation with a cop, that applies to every such interaction with a cop, no requirement to answer any questions, nothing.
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Last edited by Wil-C; February 19, 2019 at 13:04.
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Old February 19, 2019, 13:21   #12
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Originally Posted by Wil-C View Post
if this is done in the state of Tx, it is an illegal detention.
There is no requirement to show ID unless or until an individual is subject to a lawful arrest or traffic stop and that individual IS ENGAGED IN ANY ACTIVITY WHICH REQUIRES A LICENCE, such as driving.
Riding as a passenger requires no license and a traffic stop does not apply to any passenger.
Consequently detaining someone for lawfully refusing to surrender ID cannot be legally done as a primary charge or basis of suspicion of a crime.
Refusal of ID can only be applied as a secondary charge persuant to a different lawful primary charge.

Lawful detention requires specific articulable facts which would lead a reasonable individual to a bonafide conclusion or legitimate suspicion that a crime has been committed, is about to be, or is in the process of being committed.

paraphrased from Terry vrs Ohio ^^^^


In Tx:
Penal code 38.02

part A. ID required in the event of lawful arrest.

part B no requirement to ID in event of detainment for witness purposes, only a crime if an individual gives false ID information .

Add edit: in Tx the above also applies to CCW, CCW is considered ID and lawful concealed carry alone is not considered valid grounds for a Terry stop.

Terry vrs Ohio lawfully applies in AZ but I don't know if AZ has the same law as 38.02.
If so, then that passenger had every right to not surrender ID to that cop. Best or safest thing to do as a passenger? Roll the pass side window up, lock the pass side door and do not say a word to the cops. Under a circumstance such as that, we are not required to consent to any conversation with a cop, that applies to every such interaction with a cop, no requirement to answer any questions, nothing.
Thanks for that clarification

It used to be common practice here with county sheriff/constables 25+ years ago. I distinctly remember getting “let off easy this time” when I was a passenger in a vehicle with an aquaintance that apparently had a history of doing dumb things. I didn’t have a wallet and was told I could be taken in until they verified my Identity.

Happened again a few years later, same story - gave my name and DL#, was told that isn’t good enough and that they’d need to search our car and possibly take me in to verify ID.

Funny I don’t have any current experience now that I have a decent haircut, a functional set of mufflers and respectable friends

In the age of body cameras and cell phones, I’m sure the locals have toned down the insistence on state issued ID.
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Old February 19, 2019, 21:48   #13
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Originally Posted by Randall View Post
I bet the dude shows his ID next time.
Wonder how you would feel about this if the Man gave you a tuneup maybe because you didn’t say “Yes Sir” with enough reverence?
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Old February 20, 2019, 00:37   #14
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Originally Posted by johnnycobra View Post
Thanks for that clarification

It used to be common practice here with county sheriff/constables 25+ years ago. I distinctly remember getting “let off easy this time” when I was a passenger in a vehicle with an aquaintance that apparently had a history of doing dumb things. I didn’t have a wallet and was told I could be taken in until they verified my Identity.

Happened again a few years later, same story - gave my name and DL#, was told that isn’t good enough and that they’d need to search our car and possibly take me in to verify ID.

Funny I don’t have any current experience now that I have a decent haircut, a functional set of mufflers and respectable friends

In the age of body cameras and cell phones, I’m sure the locals have toned down the insistence on state issued ID.
Your experience is the difference between the lawful excercise of authority, vrs the excercise of power.
The law doesn't give the cops the legitimate authority to do what you've described, however they have the power to get away with it, especially back then.
It also depends on peoples ignorance (lack of knowledge) of the law for the cops to get away with such excercise of power.
If people don't know they have the right to say "no" they won't do it or back down in the face of the false threats the cops will throw at them.

I got threatened with going 'downtown' because I refused to surrender ID,
I stated to the cop what I previously posted and then asked him if he still thinks he's going to arrest me for failure to ID.
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Old February 20, 2019, 08:09   #15
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Originally Posted by Wil-C View Post
Your experience is the difference between the lawful excercise of authority, vrs the excercise of power.
The law doesn't give the cops the legitimate authority to do what you've described, however they have the power to get away with it, especially back then.
It also depends on peoples ignorance (lack of knowledge) of the law for the cops to get away with such excercise of power.
If people don't know they have the right to say "no" they won't do it or back down in the face of the false threats the cops will throw at them.

I got threatened with going 'downtown' because I refused to surrender ID,
I stated to the cop what I previously posted and then asked him if he still thinks he's going to arrest me for failure to ID.
Unfortunately the threats are too often not false.
When police do behave illegally, there's often no consequences to them. They can shoot and kill an unarmed man on the floor begging for his life in Arizona and get off scott free.
The actions of the officers in this video aren't random, this is part of a pattern. Nobody acts like this right out of the gate. I believe the phrase I've heard law enforcement use is "totality of the situation" to describe criminal behavior, I see a lot going on in this footage that looks like a systemic problem.
Isn't it funny that only a few years ago as body cams were getting popular, all the officers on the news said the footage would prove the claims of police brutality to be lies. Here we are, many departments are now claiming that cameras are "too expensive". Coincidence?
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Old February 20, 2019, 11:24   #16
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Originally Posted by WESOMATIC View Post
Unfortunately the threats are too often not false.
When police do behave illegally, there's often no consequences to them. They can shoot and kill an unarmed man on the floor begging for his life in Arizona and get off scott free.
The actions of the officers in this video aren't random, this is part of a pattern. Nobody acts like this right out of the gate. I believe the phrase I've heard law enforcement use is "totality of the situation" to describe criminal behavior, I see a lot going on in this footage that looks like a systemic problem.
Isn't it funny that only a few years ago as body cams were getting popular, all the officers on the news said the footage would prove the claims of police brutality to be lies. Here we are, many departments are now claiming that cameras are "too expensive". Coincidence?
Concur: standing up to the cops or standing up for your rights is sometimes literally taking your life into your hands. And even if you sue, who pays for that? Not the cops, insurance pays the settlement, who ultimately pays that? We the public. Odds are long the individual officer will be held personally accountable.
Look at Houston, my suspicion is there'll be much ado about nothing for a while, then that cop will quietly go on his way after this fades out of public view.
And yes, it is a pattern and the mentality behind it is becoming very widespread. there are literally an uncountable number of videos on youtube with this kind've behavior and the mentality behind it.

It is a mentality of arrogance, they hate anyone standing up to them or standing up for their rights under just about any circumstance.

the reaction I got in my situation was the same, they wanted to retaliate the worst way but I knew enough about the law and how to phrase things where they couldn't retaliate without putting themselves in personal legal peril.
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