The FAL Files  

Go Back   The FAL Files > Weapon Specific Forums > The FN Files

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old October 20, 2018, 22:12   #1
Hebrew Battle Rifle
Horses Ass
Bronze Contributor
 
Hebrew Battle Rifle's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 5777
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 8,336
Why didn't FN standardize F A Ls with

Para recoil systems? Either lower can be used with a Para recoil system, so why not simplify production and just make one type of recoil system?
__________________
THANK YOU JESUS
Hebrew Battle Rifle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 20, 2018, 22:16   #2
embatp
What? Me AR?
Silver Contributor
 
embatp's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 39856
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Behind enemy lines...
Posts: 4,292
They could have but the standard lowers still need a way to attach the stock and the standard spring assembly is probably less prone to breakage than the para setup ...especially the rod the spring assembly fits on....
__________________
"only he is lost who gives himself up for lost"
embatp is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 20, 2018, 22:19   #3
ActionYobbo
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 32542
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Flippin Arky
Posts: 890
Reliability. The long push rod recoil spring system was a proven reliable system. The short spring of the para setup was new and unproven. By the time the para had enough age on it to be trusted the FAL was in its twilight years
__________________
no matter where you are some body is watching
ActionYobbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 21, 2018, 10:54   #4
Lee Carpentieri
Old Fart
Silver Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 4936
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Florida Where it's Hot and Humid
Posts: 6,625
FN Para's

The FN Para was developed as early as 1959 with the Belgium Military adopting it first.Type one upper and lower with a Carry handle and a 18.1 inch barrel, NON bi-pod cut,22mm combo grenade launcher muzzle break.
__________________
Live life to the fullest, Because in the end there's only death and taxs.
Lee Carpentieri is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 21, 2018, 11:04   #5
meltblown
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 34604
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: SA Tx
Posts: 13,405
I view the para recoil setup as marginal at best although they have the most cool factor of all the FALs. I feel better with a railed top cover on mine. That flimsy sheet metal dust cover holding back the recoil package is well let's say not what I would want in a FA battle rifle that was in serious service. I've already worn out the rivet holding the guide rod on an ARMS mount.
__________________
Giving people the benefit of the means itís ok to screw you over.

Expect the worst, and you'll never be disappointed.

Before trying to beat the odds, make sure you can survive the odds beating you.
meltblown is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 21, 2018, 15:11   #6
D. Lehrman
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
D. Lehrman's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 10
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Cowtown, KS - Home of the unhappy Prairie Dog...
Posts: 147
Imagine that....wore out an aftermarket part with some marginal design features and that reflects on a properly setup para in factory configuration? I don't think so.

For all the whine and worry I've never pranged a para in 25 years so that it needed something above a unit level repair kind of thing...and that was MY fault, not the weapon's recoil system or design. I'm not going to war with it; there are better implements for that, and I'm still not going...already had that glorious opportunity.

You worry, I'll keep shooting them. I probably do more time on para by thrice factor, as opposed standard stocked versions.
D. Lehrman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 21, 2018, 17:40   #7
W.E.G.
FAL Files Administrator
Silver Contributor
 
W.E.G.'s Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 1211
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Virginia
Posts: 39,539
I think the opportunity for the average conscript to completely fugk the para recoil assembly during routine maintenance is a thousand percent greater than the piston assembly.

If you can manage to not damage it (bend shit and lose shit) during maintenance, there is nothing undesireable or unreliable about the mechanical *design* of the para.

Bend that rod on the top cover, or kink that crack-pipe-looking thing that joins the two recoil springs, and your done.



Attached Images
File Type: jpg para recoil spring guide tube - hydrotx.jpg (16.4 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg para top cover.jpg (27.5 KB, 26 views)
__________________
.
.
.

Ask me about the Mason-Dixon FAL Collectors Association.

Last edited by W.E.G.; October 21, 2018 at 17:46.
W.E.G. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 21, 2018, 17:50   #8
meltblown
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 34604
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: SA Tx
Posts: 13,405
Quote:
Originally Posted by W.E.G. View Post
I think the opportunity for the average conscript to completely fugk the para recoil assembly during routine maintenance is a thousand percent greater than the piston assembly.

If you can manage to not damage it (bend shit and lose shit) during maintenance, there is nothing undesireable or unreliable about the mechanical *design* of the para.

Bend that rod on the top cover, or kink that crack-pipe-looking thing that joins the two recoil springs, and your done.



Good point Gary. That shit will put your eye out like that snake in a can the old folks used pull on you. Gonna break it open and all your stuff is laying in the dirt
__________________
Giving people the benefit of the means itís ok to screw you over.

Expect the worst, and you'll never be disappointed.

Before trying to beat the odds, make sure you can survive the odds beating you.
meltblown is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 21, 2018, 18:30   #9
W.E.G.
FAL Files Administrator
Silver Contributor
 
W.E.G.'s Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 1211
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Virginia
Posts: 39,539
Very first para I actually laid eyes on, the owner cracked it open, and it went all slinky on him.

Then he tried to "fix" it, and he mashed the living shit out of one of the springs and the crack pipe when he spazzed while trying to slam it shut.

If you aren't a spaz, and you know what the fugk you are doing, and you can actually take some caution, that sort of shit probably doesn't happen to you. In that case, the para design will serve you well.

[rant]
I shudder to think though if I let any of my cronies handle one under circumstances where I couldn't grab them by the throat as soon as it looked like they were about to do some dumb shit with my rifle. One bolt-over-base (like that never happens) and there they go breaking and bending shit that a trip to Home Depot isn't going to remedy. I'm too tired of stupids to wipe asses and be range nanny every time I go out. I've got a single-barrel shotgun and a box of 5 slugs they can shoot if they need me to feed them. If it gives them a bloody nose, they can wipe it on their undershirt.
[/rant]
__________________
.
.
.

Ask me about the Mason-Dixon FAL Collectors Association.
W.E.G. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 21, 2018, 18:55   #10
D. Lehrman
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
D. Lehrman's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 10
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Cowtown, KS - Home of the unhappy Prairie Dog...
Posts: 147
Guess I'm just not stupid or ham-fisted enough to fuk up in style. No reason to start today. Don't see a reason for gotta' be one way or the other. I have yet to trash a spring, pin or screw on one.

Would I prefer it as the only club on the fairway in war? No. Would I prefer any FAL as my only club on the same hole? No. I probably wasn't the "average" conscript when I was conscripted, so guess I'll still be O.K. You be scary if you like, and happy too...we don't need to think identically. I simply don't see a reason for fear of the design and good factory components. With average competence and attention they'll likely serve longer than any of me or mine have need.
D. Lehrman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 21, 2018, 20:22   #11
Lee Carpentieri
Old Fart
Silver Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 4936
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Florida Where it's Hot and Humid
Posts: 6,625
Para Recoil systems

I've seen to many FN-FAL/SAR Para's break the factory recoil rods in the past. Even the ARM's Para recoil Rod's have broke in the past. When DSA came out with their Para top cover with the Detachable recoil rod, It was a really good answer to the problem that was finally available. Some people hate it, But I like it,Especially on my La-France type 3 upper receiver-ed in Full-Auto.
__________________
Live life to the fullest, Because in the end there's only death and taxs.
Lee Carpentieri is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 21, 2018, 20:53   #12
D. Lehrman
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
D. Lehrman's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 10
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Cowtown, KS - Home of the unhappy Prairie Dog...
Posts: 147
Mine only go bang once, but under stress and more strenuous use, I can definitely believe it. I'm simply careful with them all, nice tools get good respect here.
D. Lehrman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 22, 2018, 07:30   #13
pistolero1911
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 75616
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 664
Thankfully the Para recoil system ain't rocket science, so even a middling competent incompetent such as myself can get it to work reliably.

If you want to convert your 50.00 into a 50.64, it really is a straight forward operation. Get yourself the following:

1) DSA no-nose top cover [either with or without the removable spring retention rod];
2) a set of Milsurp Monkey's Para springs [these are a key component];
3) a "dingus tube" - IIRC I got mine from Numrich, it was for the SAFN 49;
4) an Argie Para bolt carrier from Sarco;
5) a DSA Para lower, go used as there have been some issues with the new ones.

Disassembly / assembly took me a couple of hours, no bloody knuckles, no unwanted expletives [you will blurt out an expletive shout or two when you test fire your Para and it performs flawlessly]. Take this time to add a folding charging handle, a two point sling, etc.

The system has been 100% reliable, and stripping/cleaning is nearly as easy as with the 50.00.
__________________
Three kinds of men exist: Those who wish they owned a FAL; those who own a FAL but wish it was a Para; and those who own a Para = Nirvana.
pistolero1911 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 22, 2018, 11:19   #14
Impala_Guy
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 55819
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Gamecock Country
Posts: 3,063
I've heard the FAL will continue to run even with one of the springs broken. I dont know how much truth there is to this but since its completely captured in a tube and there is more spring travel available than the bolt actually needs, that sounds reasonable. Your broken spring becomes two compression springs, one of top of the other.

If the para spring breaks you might be screwed though, it looks like a spring design that is having a lot asked if it. Other designs that capture the spring in the receiver like the G3 and the SCAR allow for a longer spring with more coils than the FAL para....IE greater spring life.
__________________
Don't spread our wealth around, spread our work ethic.........
Impala_Guy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 22, 2018, 11:47   #15
lew
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
lew's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 16727
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 8,127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Impala_Guy View Post
IE greater spring life.
There ya go. That, the maintenance "issue", and the fact that no one was asking for the Para arrangement as standard. All of my 50.00 FALs use/used surplus recoil springs. Can't recall ever coming across a standard inner or outer return spring that was not serviceable.

If the FAL had somehow remained commercially viable up until recently, I can see the Para spring arrangement becoming mandatory due to modularity requirements and the like.
__________________
Statism: Ideas so great, they're mandatory.

"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." -Christopher Hitchens
lew is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 22, 2018, 11:58   #16
Impala_Guy
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 55819
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Gamecock Country
Posts: 3,063
Quote:
Originally Posted by lew View Post
There ya go. That, the maintenance "issue", and the fact that no one was asking for the Para arrangement as standard. All of my 50.00 FALs use/used surplus recoil springs. Can't recall ever coming across a standard inner or outer return spring that was not serviceable.

If the FAL had somehow remained commercially viable up until recently, I can see the Para spring arrangement becoming mandatory due to modularity requirements and the like.

Spring design is something I do occasionally. Without going into too much detail, a "good" spring design made of common spring wire should last at least 50,000 cycles over its range of travel, and more likely 100,000 or more. Since thats beyond receiver life I doubt there are many FAL springs that have seen that much use. That doesn't mean that once in a blue moon a FAL spring cant break due to material variances, no lube in da tube, etc.

Most automatic pistol main springs are a good example of a spring thats exceeded "normal" operating parameters...primarily its large amount of pre-load and final compression height. Theres nothing wrong with this and its quite common in engineering to make springs a normal wear and maintenance item. There is a reason you are supposed to change a 1911 pistol spring every few thousand rounds and almost noone has had to change a spring on a 50.00 FAL.

When you have springs like those in your engines lifters that go billions of cycles, you are talking about relatively small amounts of spring travel and special spring steels and heat treats.
__________________
Don't spread our wealth around, spread our work ethic.........

Last edited by Impala_Guy; October 22, 2018 at 12:13.
Impala_Guy is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:27.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©1998-2018 The FAL Files