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Old December 22, 2018, 13:13   #1
BarnOwlLover
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Could L1A1/C1A1 fire rifle grenades?

It has to be remembered that the Brits, Auzzies and Canadians adopted these rifles during early post-Korean War NATO standardization. One of the first was adapters/muzzle devices to fire rifle grenades. There were several variations, but they were all of 22mm diameter and had rings to support the grenade tube.

From what I can tell, the Inch Pattern FALs may not have been intended to launch rifle grenades based on the shape and design of the flash hiders. Is there truth to this vs most other FAL variants that had flash hiders?

I know that (though very rarely used) that the C7 and C8 can fire rifle grenades based on the fact that the M16 and M4 can, the C7 and C8 being improved Canadian versions of the M16 and M4 respectively (CHF barrels, reinforced receivers, etc).
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Old December 22, 2018, 13:23   #2
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Ignore Blondzilla's eye-rolling as she recites her coached lines. Yes this is an L1A1

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Old December 22, 2018, 14:18   #3
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It looks like it needed an adapter rather than just being able to use the flash hider as a spigot. So that means that it's like any FAL before FN adopted the 22mm muzzle brake/flash hider. Capable of firing rifle grenades, but requires an adapter.

Actually, is that an adapter or just a sight?

I knew that mechanically it was capable of it, aside from the muzzle device.
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Old December 22, 2018, 14:28   #4
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Many grenade launcher devices are covered in The FN FAL Primer.

You can also check ARS https://arizonaresponsesystems.com/p...nade-launcher/
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Old December 22, 2018, 15:33   #5
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Looks like the one pictured clamps onto the bayonet lug. M1 Garands had something similar in World War II and Korea as far as the concept.
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Old December 22, 2018, 15:40   #6
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Currently Colt Canada, have the 40 mm Eagle grenade launcher could be installed under the C7 handguard or mounted on a stand-alone adapter. See attached Colt Canada Catalog 2018: http://www.coltcanada.com/assets/cc-cat-web-2018.pdf
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Old December 22, 2018, 16:08   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarnOwlLover View Post
Actually, is that an adapter or just a sight?
Both.

Locks on the bayo lug.
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Old December 23, 2018, 13:21   #8
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I noted that in post #5 after seeing Arizona Response Systems' version. M1s had something similar starting in World War II.

Of course, it seems that the only ones who went hog wild for rifle grenades in NATO were the French, and the even insisted that the HK416F have the ability to launch them.
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Old December 23, 2018, 21:22   #9
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The launch in the video seemed to have a lot less recoil than what I experienced launching parachute flares from an M1 rifle.
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Old December 26, 2018, 10:39   #10
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I know nobody is interested but I do have a copy of the British army manual for launching grenades off the L1A1.
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Old December 26, 2018, 11:36   #11
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Quote:
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The launch in the video seemed to have a lot less recoil than what I experienced launching parachute flares from an M1 rifle.
Iím sure he used a lighter blank load.
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Old December 26, 2018, 12:00   #12
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Iím sure he used a lighter blank load.
Yup. The L13A1 blanks will throw it about 100 yards and not beat the crap out of you like the standard grenade launching cartridge.
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Old December 26, 2018, 17:14   #13
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The usual local procedure was to put the Buttstock a beside hip or even one knee the deck with Buttstock beside the leg and fire from there. Certainly not from the shoulder.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Invictus77 View Post
Yup. The L13A1 blanks will throw it about 100 yards and not beat the crap out of you like the standard grenade launching cartridge.

Last edited by y18376; December 26, 2018 at 22:45.
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Old December 26, 2018, 21:07   #14
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The usual local procedure was to put the Buttstock a beside hip or even on the deck beside leg and fire from there. Certainly not from the shoulder.
I thought if direct fire you would have buttstock under the shoulder
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Old December 26, 2018, 21:21   #15
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Quote:
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I thought if direct fire you would have buttstock under the shoulder
The Belgium manual says "under the shoulder" and is pretty explicit about not holding it ON the shoulder.

The Britt manual says butted to the ground and the Izzy manual says to hold it "firmly" ON the shoulder, although without looking I may have those two backwards.

Nonetheless, for fun & games, use the L13A1 loads. It throws the grenade about 100 yards with no real, severe kick. The ceremonial blanks won't push it 30 feet and the real grenade blanks are A=expensive, B=kick the crap out of you, and C=throw it 250 yards which is way to far to walk back and forth to retrieve the practice grenade for a fat old fugger like me
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Old December 27, 2018, 08:12   #16
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Quote:
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Yup. The L13A1 blanks will throw it about 100 yards and not beat the crap out of you like the standard grenade launching cartridge.
DO NOT use normal "Sound and Flash" Blanks for Grenade Launching of any type (either Real grenades/Inert Dummies or other Substitutes.)

The Proper Grenade Launching Cartridge uses a medium to slow burning Powder, usually similar to the original Ball Load, to get the proper pressure Curve and Propulsive effect. Remember the pressure impulse has to Fill the empty Bore, and propel the "grenade" with just sufficient "Push" not to shatter or detonate it prematurely, nor Bulge the Barrel.("HI-pressure-Lo-Pressure Effect" used in all "bomb throwing" devices, such as Mortars, Shotgun-type GLs (M79, M203 etc.), and rifle grenades.)

Fast Pistol type (or Shotgun) Powders are used for "Maneuver" Blanks for the Flash and sound, and are loaded to operate the Auto mechanism sufficiently for "Functional" Use. Hence they are High pressure (or specifically "High Port Pressure") to replicate the Gas pressures in Ball rounds, with a pressure curve that maintains the Port pressure at around 10,000 to 15,000 PSI for correct Gas/Recoil System operation. I won't go into the physics of the WW I "Bullet Trap" Grenade launching system, only to say it was a variation of the "Hi-P-Lo-P" system, allowing the use of Ball ammo to launch the grenade.

So, again, don't mess with normal "salute and maneuvered" blanks if you want to launch something, whether it is a tennis ball or a proper rifle grenade, or even a "Line Thrower" weight. Use the correct cartridge for the job, and be safe.

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Doc AV
AV Ballistics Film Ordnance Services.
Brisbane Australia.
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Old December 27, 2018, 18:45   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y18376 View Post
The usual local procedure was to put the Buttstock a beside hip or even one knee the deck with Buttstock beside the leg and fire from there. Certainly not from the shoulder.
Please find attached some pages from the Canadian Armed Forces manual on the grenade launcher use on the FN C1A1 and the firing positions to use it.





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Old December 28, 2018, 17:03   #18
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The manual wasn't always slavishly followed any way because a ship holding station 150 - 200 metres away is a big target anyway


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Originally Posted by Airforce1 View Post
Please find attached some pages from the Canadian Armed Forces manual on the grenade launcher use on the FN C1A1 and the firing positions to use it.





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Old December 31, 2018, 07:59   #19
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Quote:
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Please find attached some pages from the Canadian Armed Forces manual on the grenade launcher use on the FN C1A1 and the firing positions to use it.





Interesting that the manual makes no mention of anti-tank grenades. The British manual only cover anti-tank grenades and the U. S. Army manual covers both.

Also a couple of corrections need to be made in this version of the manual: 1) reference to launching the M67 hand grenade should be delete. The M67 is the "baseball grenade" and cannot be fitted to the grenade projection adapter; 2) Section 4, paragraph 409.2 change 1,600 mils to read 800 mils.
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The application of the proper amount of high explosives can solve any problem.

Last edited by Douglas Wozny; December 31, 2018 at 10:01.
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Old December 31, 2018, 15:13   #20
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[QUOTE=Also a couple of corrections need to be made in this version of the manual: 1) reference to launching the M67 hand grenade should be delete. The M67 is the "baseball grenade" and cannot be fitted to the grenade projection adapter; 2) Section 4, paragraph 409.2 change 1,600 mils to read 800 mils.[/QUOTE]

I have never notice the two errors.
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