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Old January 03, 2019, 10:01   #1
Heisser Mann
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good deal on IMR4064

Got a screaming good deal on IMR4064--$15 for 8 lbs, unopened. Already loaded some 8mm Mauser, plan on using it for the larger calibers I shoot, seems kind of big for .223 neck cases though. What's the top powder for .223/5.56 on the market now? I have used these powders in the past--BLC-2, 335, Varget but have never loaded for .223, only 30cal and up (riflewise). I have been using some Varget I had , but it is just 1lb and soon to disappear. I weight it all on my scale, so nothing gets done fast, or in volume.
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Old January 03, 2019, 16:09   #2
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For 223,Tac and XBR 8208 are the bees knees.
Both have multiple caliber uses also, including .30.
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Old January 03, 2019, 18:08   #3
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A very versatile powder! I got 16lbs in the old white 8lb tins from a buddy a while back for $10/lb. can’t beat your deal!

Seems a bit too slow for .223 but may work for the heavier bullets. Expect compressed charges.
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Old January 03, 2019, 18:20   #4
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How old is the powder? May wish to check no degradation before you load. I got some H322 at a good price a year ago, find out the powder is almost 20 yrs old. Still good, but just use it up first.
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Old January 03, 2019, 20:24   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heisser Mann View Post
Got a screaming good deal on IMR4064--$15 for 8 lbs, unopened. Already loaded some 8mm Mauser, plan on using it for the larger calibers I shoot, seems kind of big for .223 neck cases though. What's the top powder for .223/5.56 on the market now? I have used these powders in the past--BLC-2, 335, Varget but have never loaded for .223, only 30cal and up (riflewise). I have been using some Varget I had , but it is just 1lb and soon to disappear. I weight it all on my scale, so nothing gets done fast, or in volume.

Supposed to be a Go to Powder for M1 Garand Match loads.. Plus many more !! Good score !!
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Old January 08, 2019, 12:26   #6
Heisser Mann
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuscan Raider View Post
For 223,Tac and XBR 8208 are the bees knees.
Both have multiple caliber uses also, including .30.
I went to Midway and saw both powders listed. Looks like just what I need! Tac is a bit cheaper, but the XBR 8208 is more insensitive to temp changes (according to what I read). Sound like what I used to read about Varget. I poured the 4064 yesterday for 100 rds of .223, 23.5g and a 62g FMJ bullet, got pretty full but poured decently. Get to the range soon and see how it performs. thanks for the headsup.
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Old January 09, 2019, 12:05   #7
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Tac isn't as temp-sensitive as folks put on. I don't have my data on hand, but I shoot from 40*-110* and the ballistics aren't off by much, no worse than IMR4895. Makes for a super accurate load with Hornady 75 gr. BTHP.
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Old January 09, 2019, 16:09   #8
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Originally Posted by lew View Post
Tac isn't as temp-sensitive as folks put on. I don't have my data on hand, but I shoot from 40*-110* and the ballistics aren't off by much, no worse than IMR4895. Makes for a super accurate load with Hornady 75 gr. BTHP.
Agreed. My temps were even colder.

Ramshot has a great PDF for load data
on all of their powders. Even a 5.56 pressure section.
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Old January 09, 2019, 16:30   #9
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24.2 grains Varget with a 75 or 77 grain bullet loaded to magazine length (2.250").

Always use a MAGNUM small rifle primer.

If you are loading fairly hot rounds, and not using MAGNUM small rifle primers for 5.56, I assure you... You are doing it wrong.

4064 is fine for for 5.56. Generally, the only valid complaint is that folks don't like how it "meters" through the skinny necks. If you are a competent reloader, you will manage this.

I never weigh individual 5.56 powder charges. Use a good volumetric powder measure, and use good discipline when dropping powder charges. Your dropped-charge ammo will be every bit as accurate weighed charges - probably more-so. Benchrest shooters use DROPPED CHARGES almost exclusively. There is probably a reason for that. Use the scale to set-up your powder charge initially, and then put it away. Next time you need to reload ammo, set your power measure to the same volumetric mark as before, lock it down, and drop charges with certainty that it will produce superb ammo.

I don't know where this "trickling" habit got started. But, I can assure you it won't help. Fortunately, it probably won't hurt anything - except your rate of production of good ammo. With rifle ammo, 0.2 grains variation doesn't mean shit as far as accuracy. A good powder measure will reliably produce less variation than that if you operate it properly.

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Old January 09, 2019, 16:39   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heisser Mann View Post
I poured the 4064 yesterday for 100 rds of .223, 23.5g and a 62g FMJ bullet

I'm going to say something here that will probably piss you off when you first read it. But, if you take it to heart, you will eventually appreciate the "suggestion."

62-grain FMJ bullets are SHIT bullets for handloading. You will get SHIT accuracy from them, and you will be generally wasting your time at the range if you make a habit of shooting them. There is very little point in spending all that time handloading SHIT ammo.

If you want to shoot SHIT ammo, you can buy alreayd loaded, brand-new, SHIT ammo rather inexpensively. In fact, if your time is worth anything you actually save money buy just buying ready-to-spew SHIT ammo, versus wasting your valuable time building it in your shed.

Seriously, do yourself a favor. If you are going to build ammunition, at least build ammunition that is worthy of the value of your time in the shed, and your time on the range.

You will be glad you did.
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Old January 10, 2019, 06:15   #11
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^^^ He has a way with words.
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Old January 15, 2019, 13:18   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.E.G. View Post

62-grain FMJ bullets are SHIT bullets for handloading. You will get SHIT accuracy from them, and you will be generally wasting your time at the range if you make a habit of shooting them. There is very little point in spending all that time handloading SHIT ammo.
It's curious but some of the best shooting 556 ammo I have come across was Santa Barbara 62gr Green tip I bought back in late 90s. Would shoot close to MOA from my ARs.
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Old January 15, 2019, 16:08   #13
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Originally Posted by nvcdl View Post
It's curious but some of the best shooting 556 ammo I have come across was Santa Barbara 62gr Green tip I bought back in late 90s. Would shoot close to MOA from my ARs.

OK.

I'll make you a bet.

I say you cannot make that green-tip ammo shoot "close to" minute of angle.

I have $100 that says you can't.

Here is the test:

Fairfax Rod and Gun Club.
Benson Range.
200 yards.
10-shot group.
You said "close to minute of angle" - not sure what you mean by that, but to pin it down, lets say group size no larger than 2.5" at 200 yards.
You can use any rifle you want.
You can pull the bullets out of the factory ammo and load them into any cartridge you wish. Or you can buy the bullets alone, and load them into whatever cartridge fits your rifle.
Tip of bullet must attract a magnet.
You can use any support you want.
You have two hours to do it.
You can re-do the test as many times as you like.

If you accomplish it, I pay you $100 on the spot, and I buy you lunch at Red Robin or Buffalo Wild Wings.

If you don't accomplish it, you pay me nothing, but you have to buy me lunch.

I don't spend much time working, so my schedule is good for most days.

Fair?
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Old January 15, 2019, 16:36   #14
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Originally Posted by nvcdl View Post
It's curious but some of the best shooting 556 ammo I have come across was Santa Barbara 62gr Green tip I bought back in late 90s. Would shoot close to MOA from my ARs.
Will need a pic of target.

Believe it or not, green tip is 2MOA at best.
Couldn’t even get reloads much better.

It truly is a crappy bullet.

You’d have better accuracy with M193’s.
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March 30, 1912
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Old January 15, 2019, 17:42   #15
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I'll extend the offer to any open-base 55 with a cannelure.
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Old January 15, 2019, 19:43   #16
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Originally Posted by W.E.G. View Post
OK.

I'll make you a bet.

I say you cannot make that green-tip ammo shoot "close to" minute of angle.

I have $100 that says you can't.

Here is the test:

Fairfax Rod and Gun Club.
Benson Range.
200 yards.
10-shot group.
You said "close to minute of angle" - not sure what you mean by that, but to pin it down, lets say group size no larger than 2.5" at 200 yards.
You can use any rifle you want.
You can pull the bullets out of the factory ammo and load them into any cartridge you wish. Or you can buy the bullets alone, and load them into whatever cartridge fits your rifle.
Tip of bullet must attract a magnet.
You can use any support you want.
You have two hours to do it.
You can re-do the test as many times as you like.

If you accomplish it, I pay you $100 on the spot, and I buy you lunch at Red Robin or Buffalo Wild Wings.

If you don't accomplish it, you pay me nothing, but you have to buy me lunch.

I don't spend much time working, so my schedule is good for most days.

Fair?
Might take you up on this as I think I have I still have some of this ammo stashed. I would qualify that the groups I was getting were about 1" at 100 yards - never really checked them at 200 tho I did use the ammo in action matches.
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Old January 15, 2019, 20:25   #17
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Me and Pony-Tail Jim will be at the gate tomorrow at noon.

I'm shooting mostly offhand, so my groups should be minute of washing-machine.

We plan to be there at least two hours. If you meet us at the gate at 1150 hrs, it should be loads of fun. Aint no reason to go if it aint fun.

Gotta be 200 yards. 10-shot groups at 100 are just too "busy."

I'll bring my appetite!
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