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Old December 15, 2018, 13:33   #1
s11033
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CAI Sporter Question

Hey guys,

I was handling an L1A1 over the weekend in a New Hampshire shop and decided that I need one in my collection. My FN49 looks too lonely among my Garands and BM59s.

I live in the People's Republic Of Massachusetts, home of Elizabeth Warren and Maura Healey. Our gun laws are, unsurprisingly, out of control. I need to find an L1A1 that has a pre - '94 receiver for an FFL to transfer it to me, because the FAL has been pseudo-banned by name in a statement issued by our attorney general.

I realize that when people talk about "pre-ban" FALs, they're generally referring to the '89 import ban, and I also know that those rifle tend to carry hefty price tags. What's the best way for me to find a pre '94 AWB L1A1 or FAL? Stripped receivers work too, as I enjoy my basement gunsmithing.

I found this one and think it might work. It's a Century with a thumbhole stock and a low serial number. I'm not sure though if it would be pre-AWB.



Thank you,

Steve
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Old December 15, 2018, 13:48   #2
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Here's what you might be in for with that particular receiver.
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=361192
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Old December 15, 2018, 14:13   #3
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Here's what you might be in for with that particular receiver.
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=361192
Wow, sounds scary... Maybe I should just spend some extra money and buy a complete rifle that's already in the state FTF.

Steve
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Old December 16, 2018, 12:12   #4
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4 years ago I left NY stinking state ,, Left a Job I Loved ,Family and friends to move to the free state of WV ! after a short time I found a Fixer upper house and 6 acres of woods in a valley of paradise . with a private shooting range and NO GUN LAWS No ccw needed No Permits to carry . Today I have a New 32x40 shop and a corvette for fun ,and a part time Job at a Major home improvement box store Mixing paint for $14.25.. and Just returned from a month vacation in Thailand - WHY DO I SAY THIS----- You Can do It too =MOVE THE HELL OUT OF THAT SCHITE HOLE STATE NOW !! You will thank me in 2 years -DO IT Freedom awaits you !!
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Old December 16, 2018, 14:00   #5
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4 years ago I left NY stinking state ,, Left a Job I Loved ,Family and friends to move to the free state of WV ! after a short time I found a Fixer upper house and 6 acres of woods in a valley of paradise . with a private shooting range and NO GUN LAWS No ccw needed No Permits to carry . Today I have a New 32x40 shop and a corvette for fun ,and a part time Job at a Major home improvement box store Mixing paint for $14.25.. and Just returned from a month vacation in Thailand - WHY DO I SAY THIS----- You Can do It too =MOVE THE HELL OUT OF THAT SCHITE HOLE STATE NOW !! You will thank me in 2 years -DO IT Freedom awaits you !!
GOOD FOR YOU!
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Old December 17, 2018, 12:25   #6
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4 years ago I left NY stinking state ,, Left a Job I Loved ,Family and friends to move to the free state of WV ! after a short time I found a Fixer upper house and 6 acres of woods in a valley of paradise . with a private shooting range and NO GUN LAWS No ccw needed No Permits to carry . Today I have a New 32x40 shop and a corvette for fun ,and a part time Job at a Major home improvement box store Mixing paint for $14.25.. and Just returned from a month vacation in Thailand - WHY DO I SAY THIS----- You Can do It too =MOVE THE HELL OUT OF THAT SCHITE HOLE STATE NOW !! You will thank me in 2 years -DO IT Freedom awaits you !!
I'm happy to hear! The Army is not very understanding of my desire to be elsewhere. I will certainly move when I can.
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Old December 17, 2018, 12:43   #7
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I'm happy to hear! The Army is not very understanding of my desire to be elsewhere. I will certainly move when I can.
Fort Huachuca is right nice, warm, dry, no gun laws, or damn few.LOL

Call branch and tell them ya need to warm up.
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Old December 17, 2018, 12:59   #8
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Why not a SAR4800 ..Most of them should be pre 1994 AWB ban ..And wont be as much as say a true pre 1989 SAR48 or Fn FAL ..Maybe 1k or so

And they pure factory guns ie no USA parts or monkeing around at least as they came in ..And IMBEL is a good marker of them
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Old December 17, 2018, 21:43   #9
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Why not a SAR4800 ..Most of them should be pre 1994 AWB ban ..And wont be as much as say a true pre 1989 SAR48 or Fn FAL ..Maybe 1k or so

And they pure factory guns ie no USA parts or monkeing around at least as they came in ..And IMBEL is a good marker of them
Cool, that's exactly the input I'm needing! Is there any way to know what their manufacture date is?
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Old December 17, 2018, 21:48   #10
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It will say 4800 not 48

Could be wrong but I think that sums it up
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Old December 17, 2018, 21:52   #11
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It will say 4800 not 48

Could be wrong but I think that sums it up
I was referring to the date with respect to the '94 ban, not the '89.

Also, could a SAR 4800 legally have the thumbhole stock replaced with a standard stock and grip if it had the required number of US-made parts? I've read posts on this forum that go both ways. I'm not too familiar with the intricacies of 922R law.

Thanks!
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Old December 18, 2018, 06:43   #12
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First, the receiver pictured is post 94. It did not have a thumbhole from CAI. Why someone would have installed one, I dunno, but it would have to be taken off an 89-94 rifle to get it.

There were no thumbholes after 94 because ATF "reinterpreted" the Republican Import Ban to no longer exempt thumbholes. It counted as 2 US parts (if US made) and that is all.

I have a 89-90 Argy receiver available, it's getting refinished now. only marked "CAI - Sporter C 1234"

$800

Also have a 93-94 IMBEL coming in hopefully this week.

Any of the PAC or CAI imports numbered on the mag well will be post 94 and complete rifles had CAI's cheesy plastic furniture.
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Old December 18, 2018, 10:02   #13
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First, the receiver pictured is post 94. It did not have a thumbhole from CAI. Why someone would have installed one, I dunno, but it would have to be taken off an 89-94 rifle to get it.

There were no thumbholes after 94 because ATF "reinterpreted" the Republican Import Ban to no longer exempt thumbholes. It counted as 2 US parts (if US made) and that is all.

I have a 89-90 Argy receiver available, it's getting refinished now. only marked "CAI - Sporter C 1234"

$800

Also have a 93-94 IMBEL coming in hopefully this week.

Any of the PAC or CAI imports numbered on the mag well will be post 94 and complete rifles had CAI's cheesy plastic furniture.
Thank you for the info. Please let me know about the Imbel when you get it. The Argy is out of my budget at this time as a lowly E4.

Steve
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Old December 18, 2018, 15:43   #14
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Old December 18, 2018, 18:24   #15
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Thank you for the info. Please let me know about the Imbel when you get it. The Argy is out of my budget at this time as a lowly E4.

Steve
Speedy four's rule the Army!!!!!
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Old December 19, 2018, 14:46   #16
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Any of the PAC or CAI imports numbered on the mag well will be post 94 and complete rifles had CAI's cheesy plastic furniture.
GP, Is it also true that CAIs from that cheesy plastic furniture period were, at least sometimes, made from Aussie kits? I've got one from around 2002 with a lower and perhaps other parts that supposedly came from an Aussie Army reserve unit once upon a time.

Yes, I know it's a dreaded "unibrow" build. Bore isn't bad but reliability varies, depending which magazine I use. Curious if the Aussie numbering is at all possible - been a while since I researched the number on the lower but that's what I recall finding out.
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Old December 19, 2018, 14:51   #17
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GP, Is it also true that CAIs from that cheesy plastic furniture period were, at least sometimes, made from Aussie kits? I've got one from around 2002 with a lower and perhaps other parts that supposedly came from an Aussie Army reserve unit once upon a time.

Yes, I know it's a dreaded "unibrow" build. Bore isn't bad but reliability varies, depending which magazine I use. Curious if the Aussie numbering is at all possible - been a while since I researched the number on the lower but that's what I recall finding out.
Don't see why not. I just got one in from a customer because of hammer follow.

Aussie lower with CAI plastic stock (no plug, no sling mount)

Why did he have hammer follow? Lets see.

1. Indian hammer (uses FAL hammer axle, not L1A1)
2. Aussie trigger & axle
3. No trigger/sear sleeve because then the
4. FN sear wouldn't fit

So yeah - every part of the FCG was rattling around on incorrect axles.

Not unusual at all to see CAI stuff with any combination - Izzy FALO front ends (cut short) on L1A1 lowers, mix of (often incompatible) Indian, L1A1 and FAL parts.

Also, US made FAL barrels with L1A1 gas blocks on them - yeah it can be done, but I strip the block, solder the slot, and then put Indian gas blocks on them. Because Indian barrels are usually really bad, and it's actually closer to the Indian pattern than L1A1.
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Old December 19, 2018, 16:39   #18
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Don't see why not. I just got one in from a customer because of hammer follow.

Aussie lower with CAI plastic stock (no plug, no sling mount)

Why did he have hammer follow? Lets see.

1. Indian hammer (uses FAL hammer axle, not L1A1)
2. Aussie trigger & axle
3. No trigger/sear sleeve because then the
4. FN sear wouldn't fit

So yeah - every part of the FCG was rattling around on incorrect axles.

Not unusual at all to see CAI stuff with any combination - Izzy FALO front ends (cut short) on L1A1 lowers, mix of (often incompatible) Indian, L1A1 and FAL parts.

Also, US made FAL barrels with L1A1 gas blocks on them - yeah it can be done, but I strip the block, solder the slot, and then put Indian gas blocks on them. Because Indian barrels are usually really bad, and it's actually closer to the Indian pattern than L1A1.
My experience was the pre 94' "Made In Canada" marked guns seem to be much better quality builds
We knew one guy who worked in the Montreal operation, he stated the guys assembling L1s were former Canadian armorers on the C1 guns and that they were building off bagged UK kits. It was a retirement job for him
I may be mistaken but I believe he also related that the stocks were installed Stateside on the exports to America.

Later when operations moved across the border to the US it's like they were just picking whatever out of bins thus the hodgepodge of inch, metric and Indian bits

This is of course conjecture but seems to follow others observations as well as your own

Canucks did a decent job
Americans not so much
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Old December 19, 2018, 17:07   #19
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My experience was the pre 94' "Made In Canada" marked guns seem to be much better quality builds
I agree - timing is usually spot on. My only complaint - and I am not positive which era these were - were bolt locking surfaces ground (poorly) for headspace, or horribly cut locking shoulders.

The locking shoulders are usually not salvageable, as they are sub .250 by the time they are true and at the correct angle.

This one was among the worst, but most look like they were hit with a very dull end mill (or a lawnmower)






The ones that really have me baffled are ones that look like the LS hole had a drill run through it with the bolt in place.

Again, I can usually true .005-.008" on the surface grinder and stay under .265 for LS.



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Old December 19, 2018, 18:41   #20
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I agree - timing is usually spot on. My only complaint - and I am not positive which era these were - were bolt locking surfaces ground (poorly) for headspace, or horribly cut locking shoulders.

The locking shoulders are usually not salvageable, as they are sub .250 by the time they are true and at the correct angle.

This one was among the worst, but most look like they were hit with a very dull end mill (or a lawnmower)






The ones that really have me baffled are ones that look like the LS hole had a drill run through it with the bolt in place.

Again, I can usually true .005-.008" on the surface grinder and stay under .265 for LS.
Again, just my experience, those were Century Stateside builds

A good share of the Century Canada builds were done up with NOS C1 locking shoulders, pin gauged to size
Back in the day I knocked apart a fair share of the Century Canada builds on Argie and Imbels. Can't recall any ground up LS

The latter American builds were awful with just crappoala US receivers
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Old December 19, 2018, 19:34   #21
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Are all of the Canadian Century rifles pre-94?
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Old December 19, 2018, 21:28   #22
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CA did some really whack stuff to not only the FAL’s, but literally anything they got their hands on from this era including AK’s. To this day, I refuse to buy anything with their namesake after fixing (or ditching) much of their terrible work over their years.

Case in point, I just picked up a Frankenfal that headspaced beyond my Forster gauge set of 1.638 (Field).....glad I didn’t test fire it. -Scary. And the locking shoulder looked much like GP’s photo of being run over by a lawnmower. The LS came out with little resistance with a punch, cannot imagine firing one like this and it walking out......talk about exciting.

To call what CA did as “Gunsmithing” is literally offensive to all men that actually are real gunsmiths and pride themselves on their quality of work.
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Old December 19, 2018, 21:30   #23
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Are all of the Canadian Century rifles pre-94?
Mark can speak better to this but to my understanding most all Canadian marked guns were pre 95'
Around 95' everything came south of the border
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Old December 19, 2018, 21:50   #24
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Thanks for the input. I'll await further comments on the other questions.

Any idea when the Pacific Armament Corp - imported Imbels came in?

Thanks!

Steve
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Old December 19, 2018, 22:56   #25
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Thanks for the input. I'll await further comments on the other questions.

Any idea when the Pacific Armament Corp - imported Imbels came in?

Thanks!

Steve
early 2000s I think
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Old December 20, 2018, 09:31   #26
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1996. First one I can find in my records is # 0453 in Sept of 97.

I bought PAC 1971-1980 in Jan of 99. If the pattern of serial numbers and dates has any consistency, then PAC probably got first delivery in late 1995 or early 1996.
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Old December 20, 2018, 11:54   #27
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4 years ago I left NY stinking state ,, Left a Job I Loved ,Family and friends to move to the free state of WV ! after a short time I found a Fixer upper house and 6 acres of woods in a valley of paradise . with a private shooting range and NO GUN LAWS No ccw needed No Permits to carry . Today I have a New 32x40 shop and a corvette for fun ,and a part time Job at a Major home improvement box store Mixing paint for $14.25.. and Just returned from a month vacation in Thailand - WHY DO I SAY THIS----- You Can do It too =MOVE THE HELL OUT OF THAT SCHITE HOLE STATE NOW !! You will thank me in 2 years -DO IT Freedom awaits you !!
good on you
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Old December 20, 2018, 12:15   #28
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Awesome, thanks again for all the helpful info guys!

Steve
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Old December 20, 2018, 14:27   #29
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Don't see why not. I just got one in from a customer because of hammer follow.

Aussie lower with CAI plastic stock (no plug, no sling mount)

Why did he have hammer follow? Lets see.

1. Indian hammer (uses FAL hammer axle, not L1A1)
2. Aussie trigger & axle
3. No trigger/sear sleeve because then the
4. FN sear wouldn't fit

So yeah - every part of the FCG was rattling around on incorrect axles.

Not unusual at all to see CAI stuff with any combination - Izzy FALO front ends (cut short) on L1A1 lowers, mix of (often incompatible) Indian, L1A1 and FAL parts.

Also, US made FAL barrels with L1A1 gas blocks on them - yeah it can be done, but I strip the block, solder the slot, and then put Indian gas blocks on them. Because Indian barrels are usually really bad, and it's actually closer to the Indian pattern than L1A1.
Thanks. I don't know enough about the Indian variants to tell if those parts are on it, but the rest looks inch pattern along with the Aussie lower.
Maybe that'll help sell her
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