Old down ejecting pump shotgun

raubvogel · July 07, 2018, 05:17

Many years ago I had the opportunity, but not the money, to get a very old (think early 20th Century) looking pump shotgun. What made it unique was it ejected to the bottom instead of to the side. With this vague description in mind, does anyone know what it could be or have pictures so i can go "Aha! That's it!"?

akinnepa · July 07, 2018, 05:40

Ithaca model 37?

1769 · July 07, 2018, 06:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by akinnepa

Ithaca model 37?

Yup, and IMHO, one of the best pump shotguns ever made.

Gazz · July 07, 2018, 06:25

The Ithaca 37 is based on a Remington model 17 and 29, also bottom eject. I also seem to recall that it is originally a Browning design. The Remington model 10 is also a bottom eject but has a very different feeding system.

**J. Armstrong** · July 07, 2018, 07:13

And no disconnecter

richbug · July 07, 2018, 07:22

I have a Remington 10 that I would sell if money issues have cleared themselves up for you...

Bought it for my southpaw son, but he has decided he owns one of my 37s.

**gunners** · July 07, 2018, 13:12

Remington bought the patent's in 1917 and Ithaca waited the twenty year's until they ran out then in 1937 introduced the model 37. Carried by the point man on SEAL team's in 'Nam.

**idsubgun** · July 07, 2018, 14:58

I've got one of the first pump shotguns made, but for the life of me I can't recall the manufacturer and I'm not home right now to see what it is.

It was made in the 1890's, I think, and the action is HUGE!! And I'm pretty sure it ejects the shotshells down, out the bottom.

I tried finding a photo of one like it online but can't find one.

**gunners** · July 07, 2018, 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by idsubgun

I've got one of the first pump shotguns made, but for the life of me I can't recall the manufacturer and I'm not home right now to see what it is.

It was made in the 1890's, I think, and the action is HUGE!! And I'm pretty sure it ejects the shotshells down, out the bottom.

I tried finding a photo of one like it online but can't find one.

Sounds very cool! Will you please post picture's when you are home?

Gazz · July 07, 2018, 19:02

Spencer made a pump shotgun. I've never seen one though -
http://www.antiquearmsinc.com/spencer-shotgun.htm
Burgess also made a pump shotgun which folded in half and appears to have bottom ejection. Do a search for early pump shotguns for all kinds of pictures.

raubvogel · July 07, 2018, 21:52

I thought the pump shotgun was invented by Browning

I will look for the pictures of those shotguns you all mentioned to see if any juggles my memory

hokey45 · July 08, 2018, 01:04

If it was an Ithaca you saw then fret not as they can still be had:

https://ithacagun.com/

**idsubgun** · July 08, 2018, 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazz

Spencer made a pump shotgun. I've never seen one though -
http://www.antiquearmsinc.com/spencer-shotgun.htm
Burgess also made a pump shotgun which folded in half and appears to have bottom ejection. Do a search for early pump shotguns for all kinds of pictures.

Yeah, I saw the photos of the Spencer and it looks like it may be it. I'll have to dig it out when I get home.

lew · July 08, 2018, 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunners

Remington bought the patent's in 1917 and Ithaca waited the twenty year's until they ran out then in 1937 introduced the model 37. Carried by the point man on SEAL team's in 'Nam.

Most preferred a Stoner or an M-16 carbine of some flavor.

fal762 · July 09, 2018, 22:55

"Point Man" by James "Patches" Watson is about his time in Vietnam. He would carry a 37 with a duckbill attachment.
The duckbill is nice. I have one on a 500 and at 7yds it makes a nice horizontal pattern. About a foot high an three to four feet horizontal pattern IIRC, been quite a while since I've shot it.

Bawana jim · July 10, 2018, 00:00

I had an Ithaca 37 in the late 70s, it was the Deer Slayer. They got in trouble copying the name and had to change it. Mine had a short barrel and rifle sights and I loved the gun. When it started to fail you would pump the action and one shell would feed and the next shell in the tube would go out on the ground.

A spring problem and once I got it fixed a friend got the gun from me. Great gun, around here some areas in deer season were slug or buckshot only. The 37 fit the area.

TenTea · July 10, 2018, 06:37

Pic of M37, in country.

I know a VN Army vet who recounts carrying a Remington 870, while walking point, on patrol in the jungle. He told me he was more confident in the shotgun's ability to get the job done, under those circumstances, and preferred it over an M16.

I had a US Property Stevens 620 during my collecting days. I repaired it and shot it for awhile.
Here are some illustrative shrouds.

**J. Armstrong** · July 10, 2018, 08:10

Were any of the Remingtons available in 20 ga ? I'm thinking the model 10 was 12 ga only, but could easily be misremembering.

I ask because as a small runt my Dad had a bottom eject 20, not an Ithaca, and I've always wondered what it was. Wouldn't mind finding one just for old times' sake.

**idsubgun** · July 12, 2018, 12:26

It turns out to be a Spencer Arms pump shotgun, Model 1896, manufactured by F. Bannermann Manufacturer New York U.S.A.

Weird design and action, for sure. I haven't looked closely at it, and haven't understood exactly how it works. I guess I could load a 3 1/2" goose load in it and give it a try! LOL!! (That's a joke, BTW)

Beautiful swirl in the Damascus barrel! And beautiful wood in the butt stock!! It does have a broken butt plate. Wonder how hard it is to find one of those? lol

There are a bunch of photos in my Imgur album:

https://imgur.com/a/MV28tgG

TenTea · July 12, 2018, 12:43

Anything Bannerman is cool stuff!
It all started by buying up Civil War surplus from the dot gov...and led to a huge powder magazine in Manhattan...which led to an island castle and an empire.

*They* ought to make a movie!

Found some neat pics.

jhend170 · July 12, 2018, 13:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by TenTea

Pic of M37, in country.

I know a VN Army vet who recounts carrying a Remington 870, while walking point, on patrol in the jungle. He told me he was more confident in the shotgun's ability to get the job done, under those circumstances, and preferred it over an M16.

I had a US Property Stevens 620 during my collecting days. I repaired it and shot it for awhile.
Here are some illustrative shrouds.

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but while on the subject of these old SGs if anyone's looking to put a Rem 10 together I have a pretty decent receiver as a starting point. PM me an offer.

To the Ithaca 37 though, it was a Godsend as a lefty. I have a 12 and a 20 that have both killed quite a few geese, dove, and clays. Love that design.

The modern iteration that a lot of folks don't realize though is the Kel-Tec KSG is a very updated version of the design. Again, bottom feeding and ejecting, but from 2 tubes instead of just 1. A simple switch and you have vanilla or chocolate.

fal762 · July 12, 2018, 14:12

There's a Spencer on Gunbroker right now. Penny start auction.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/779264633

**Riversidesports** · July 12, 2018, 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Armstrong

Were any of the Remingtons available in 20 ga ? I'm thinking the model 10 was 12 ga only, but could easily be misremembering.

I ask because as a small runt my Dad had a bottom eject 20, not an Ithaca, and I've always wondered what it was. Wouldn't mind finding one just for old times' sake.

Model 17

Remington's custom shop would make you one with a pistol grip and 10" bbl up into the early 30s.
I will snap a pic of an original grip in a bit

**Riversidesports** · July 12, 2018, 20:07

Okay

couple examples:

Top one is a 1920s M17 Remington grip. These things are quite rare

Bottom is a late 19th century Remington 20 gauge pistol, no barrel. Have a nice chunk of rifled 20 bore barrel. Would make a heck of an American Howdah to ambush murder bambi from a tree stand

both are extremely rare things
sorry on the shitty pix

sniperdoc · July 12, 2018, 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by idsubgun

It turns out to be a Spencer Arms pump shotgun, Model 1896, manufactured by F. Bannermann Manufacturer New York U.S.A.

Weird design and action, for sure. I haven't looked closely at it, and haven't understood exactly how it works. I guess I could load a 3 1/2" goose load in it and give it a try! LOL!! (That's a joke, BTW)

Beautiful swirl in the Damascus barrel! And beautiful wood in the butt stock!! It does have a broken butt plate. Wonder how hard it is to find one of those? lol

There are a bunch of photos in my Imgur album:

https://imgur.com/a/MV28tgG

Try Dixie Gun Works for the buttplate.

sniperdoc · July 12, 2018, 23:04

Back in the early-mid 80s, there was a local hunter that had a bottom ejecting shotgun, new at the time. Browning, IIRC.

ALL FAL · July 26, 2018, 00:13

I'd like to find a beat up 37 for special purpose.

raubvogel · July 26, 2018, 12:40

After looking at all of those pictures, I think it was a Model 10. With that said, that Spencer looked very neat.

SmokeEater2 · July 26, 2018, 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by hokey45

If it was an Ithaca you saw then fret not as they can still be had:

https://ithacagun.com/

Used model 37's can be found fairly cheap on GB sometimes. I picked up a 20 gauge a few years ago and they are very nice handling shotguns.

I've been tempted by the new offerings too.

July 07, 2018, 05:17	#1
raubvogel Registered Contributor FALaholic #: 64403 Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: North Carolina Posts: 2,322	Old down ejecting pump shotgun Many years ago I had the opportunity, but not the money, to get a very old (think early 20th Century) looking pump shotgun. What made it unique was it ejected to the bottom instead of to the side. With this vague description in mind, does anyone know what it could be or have pictures so i can go "Aha! That's it!"? __________________ All I'm really asking for here is a knife that will not jam and a unicorn that doesn't need sharpening. Will_Power It's been my experience that all you really need to harvest a deer is a car. They come right through the windshield just fine. 357ross That poop is priceless. MFC

July 07, 2018, 05:40	#2
akinnepa Registered FALaholic #: 63099 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: PA Posts: 124	Ithaca model 37? __________________ The same akinnepa from everywhere else.

July 07, 2018, 06:25	#4
Gazz Registered FALaholic #: 15159 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,613	The Ithaca 37 is based on a Remington model 17 and 29, also bottom eject. I also seem to recall that it is originally a Browning design. The Remington model 10 is also a bottom eject but has a very different feeding system. __________________ Gazz

July 07, 2018, 07:13	#5
J. Armstrong Minister of Amusement Platinum Contributor FALaholic #: 13629 Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Montgomery County, PA Posts: 15,157	And no disconnecter __________________ "The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools" Herbert Spenser “I respect the government only in the sense that I respect any other dangerous predator who views me as food.” “The consolidation of the states into one vast empire, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of ruin which has overwhelmed all that preceded it.” Robert E. Lee

July 07, 2018, 19:02	#10
Gazz Registered FALaholic #: 15159 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,613	Spencer made a pump shotgun. I've never seen one though - http://www.antiquearmsinc.com/spencer-shotgun.htm Burgess also made a pump shotgun which folded in half and appears to have bottom ejection. Do a search for early pump shotguns for all kinds of pictures. __________________ Gazz

July 07, 2018, 07:22	#6
richbug Registered FALaholic #: 10484 Join Date: May 2003 Location: Western PA Posts: 4,692	I have a Remington 10 that I would sell if money issues have cleared themselves up for you... Bought it for my southpaw son, but he has decided he owns one of my 37s.

July 07, 2018, 13:12	#7
gunners Member Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 55824 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Seattle, Washington Posts: 314	Remington bought the patent's in 1917 and Ithaca waited the twenty year's until they ran out then in 1937 introduced the model 37. Carried by the point man on SEAL team's in 'Nam.

July 07, 2018, 14:58	#8
idsubgun "Comfortably Numb" Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 3100 Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: In the woods of Missouri Posts: 10,470	I've got one of the first pump shotguns made, but for the life of me I can't recall the manufacturer and I'm not home right now to see what it is. It was made in the 1890's, I think, and the action is HUGE!! And I'm pretty sure it ejects the shotshells down, out the bottom. I tried finding a photo of one like it online but can't find one.

July 07, 2018, 21:52	#11
raubvogel Registered Contributor FALaholic #: 64403 Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: North Carolina Posts: 2,322	I thought the pump shotgun was invented by Browning I will look for the pictures of those shotguns you all mentioned to see if any juggles my memory __________________ All I'm really asking for here is a knife that will not jam and a unicorn that doesn't need sharpening. Will_Power It's been my experience that all you really need to harvest a deer is a car. They come right through the windshield just fine. 357ross That poop is priceless. MFC

July 08, 2018, 01:04	#12
hokey45 Registered Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 41407 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Cartersville Georgia Posts: 393	If it was an Ithaca you saw then fret not as they can still be had: https://ithacagun.com/

July 10, 2018, 00:00	#16
Bawana jim Registered FALaholic #: 17482 Join Date: May 2005 Location: west coast Posts: 21,017	I had an Ithaca 37 in the late 70s, it was the Deer Slayer. They got in trouble copying the name and had to change it. Mine had a short barrel and rifle sights and I loved the gun. When it started to fail you would pump the action and one shell would feed and the next shell in the tube would go out on the ground. A spring problem and once I got it fixed a friend got the gun from me. Great gun, around here some areas in deer season were slug or buckshot only. The 37 fit the area.

July 10, 2018, 06:37	#17
TenTea Registered Contributor FALaholic #: 72247 Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Wisco Posts: 5,018	Pic of M37, in country. I know a VN Army vet who recounts carrying a Remington 870, while walking point, on patrol in the jungle. He told me he was more confident in the shotgun's ability to get the job done, under those circumstances, and preferred it over an M16. I had a US Property Stevens 620 during my collecting days. I repaired it and shot it for awhile. Here are some illustrative shrouds. __________________ The trick is in what one emphasizes. We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same. Carlos Castenada

July 10, 2018, 08:10	#18
J. Armstrong Minister of Amusement Platinum Contributor FALaholic #: 13629 Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Montgomery County, PA Posts: 15,157	Were any of the Remingtons available in 20 ga ? I'm thinking the model 10 was 12 ga only, but could easily be misremembering. I ask because as a small runt my Dad had a bottom eject 20, not an Ithaca, and I've always wondered what it was. Wouldn't mind finding one just for old times' sake. __________________ "The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools" Herbert Spenser “I respect the government only in the sense that I respect any other dangerous predator who views me as food.” “The consolidation of the states into one vast empire, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of ruin which has overwhelmed all that preceded it.” Robert E. Lee Last edited by J. Armstrong; July 10, 2018 at 21:05.

July 12, 2018, 12:26	#19
idsubgun "Comfortably Numb" Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 3100 Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: In the woods of Missouri Posts: 10,470	It turns out to be a Spencer Arms pump shotgun, Model 1896, manufactured by F. Bannermann Manufacturer New York U.S.A. Weird design and action, for sure. I haven't looked closely at it, and haven't understood exactly how it works. I guess I could load a 3 1/2" goose load in it and give it a try! LOL!! (That's a joke, BTW) Beautiful swirl in the Damascus barrel! And beautiful wood in the butt stock!! It does have a broken butt plate. Wonder how hard it is to find one of those? lol There are a bunch of photos in my Imgur album: https://imgur.com/a/MV28tgG

July 12, 2018, 12:43	#20
TenTea Registered Contributor FALaholic #: 72247 Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Wisco Posts: 5,018	Anything Bannerman is cool stuff! It all started by buying up Civil War surplus from the dot gov...and led to a huge powder magazine in Manhattan...which led to an island castle and an empire. They ought to make a movie! Found some neat pics. __________________ The trick is in what one emphasizes. We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same. Carlos Castenada

July 12, 2018, 14:12	#22
fal762 Registered FALaholic #: 66358 Join Date: May 2012 Location: Pacific, Missouri Posts: 182	There's a Spencer on Gunbroker right now. Penny start auction. https://www.gunbroker.com/item/779264633

July 12, 2018, 20:07	#24
Riversidesports keeping it cool Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 36091 Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 5,637	Okay couple examples: Top one is a 1920s M17 Remington grip. These things are quite rare Bottom is a late 19th century Remington 20 gauge pistol, no barrel. Have a nice chunk of rifled 20 bore barrel. Would make a heck of an American Howdah to ambush murder bambi from a tree stand both are extremely rare things sorry on the shitty pix

July 12, 2018, 23:04	#26
sniperdoc Registered FALaholic #: 80483 Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: TN Posts: 626	Back in the early-mid 80s, there was a local hunter that had a bottom ejecting shotgun, new at the time. Browning, IIRC.

July 26, 2018, 00:13	#27
ALL FAL Registered Contributor FALaholic #: 24447 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Oregon Posts: 9,461	Model 37 Ithica is one favorite and Win Model 12's I'd like to find a beat up 37 for special purpose. __________________ COBC #1- That's all Folks.

July 26, 2018, 12:40	#28
raubvogel Registered Contributor FALaholic #: 64403 Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: North Carolina Posts: 2,322	After looking at all of those pictures, I think it was a Model 10. With that said, that Spencer looked very neat. __________________ All I'm really asking for here is a knife that will not jam and a unicorn that doesn't need sharpening. Will_Power It's been my experience that all you really need to harvest a deer is a car. They come right through the windshield just fine. 357ross That poop is priceless. MFC

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