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Old May 09, 2019, 22:10   #1
KoKodog
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latest twist on forming blackout brass

my latest twist on forming blackout brass, a toolhead & 2 form/trim dies from GSI w/ a Titian adapter and a Bosch 25,000 rpm 2 1/4 HP router w/ a carbide end mill, you can barely hear it work

this setup is the cats nuts, GSI tried to do single pass but had too much spinning of cases w/ the Dillon trimmer, not sure if it would spin cases w/ the router

note that you must use case lube, I had a zipper bag w/ 80 cases, sprayed 6 pumps of Dillon case lube that I cut w/ equal parts 93% alcohol and they just glide thru

what you see is the first pass in the roughing die, rough forms and trims case to 1.500”, I’ll tumble w/ SS pins to clean up burrs and remove case lube, then anneal before final forming of the shoulder to prevent spring back





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Old May 09, 2019, 22:22   #2
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Looks like a big investment!

I get by with a Harbor Freight "precision*" mini cut off saw....from there I lube then size and form in a RCBS die. Check the cases for length and sort. Most will come out at 1.365... +/- .003. They get tumbled in SS pins to take the edge off and shine. Any long ones get trimmed on a trimmer when I get around to them....I hate to trim.

"precision*" is all in your use of the saw...if your pull down on the blade is not perfect you can cause the saw to cut short or long...depending on your "english" of the pull.
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Old May 10, 2019, 18:14   #3
KoKodog
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Originally Posted by Sig220 View Post
Looks like a big investment!

I get by with a Harbor Freight "precision*" mini cut off saw....from there I lube then size and form in a RCBS die. Check the cases for length and sort. Most will come out at 1.365... +/- .003. They get tumbled in SS pins to take the edge off and shine. Any long ones get trimmed on a trimmer when I get around to them....I hate to trim.

"precision*" is all in your use of the saw...if your pull down on the blade is not perfect you can cause the saw to cut short or long...depending on your "english" of the pull.

my previous process spent too much time and effort handling cases way too many times to get to a point where I could realize some kind of achievement
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Old May 10, 2019, 19:04   #4
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WOW!











































People still shoot the Blackout?
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Old May 10, 2019, 20:42   #5
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yeah, you're a real comodian .......


but back to topic, heres a promo video GSI did on a XL650, pretty sure they used a Dillon trimmer

I still think brass could be formed in a single step but based on the physical constraints of the die to fit into 7/8" x14 threads the dies just would not last, if they could be larger in diameter there would be enough material to take the extra stress of full forming in a single pass, still a sweet setup for sure

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Last edited by KoKodog; May 10, 2019 at 20:57.
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Old May 11, 2019, 09:10   #6
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I use a harbor freight chop saw and a jig. I don't recall who I bought the jig from, but it works well.

After the cases are cut, I put them through my die and form them.

Then I use a WFT case trimmer. I like it because you can adjust the depth of the trim, but trimming is the part that I hate the most because my hand cramps up after a while.
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Old May 12, 2019, 07:10   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x401 View Post
People still shoot the Blackout?
I for one enjoy the hell out of my blackouts and consider them the new improved more usefull and powerfull M1 carbine for the 21st century......

I only mess with supersonic loadings, use mostly home cast bullets and shoot about as cheap as 9mm,,,which is important to me being a cheap bassturd.

Which is also why Ive never messed with making brass....
When I can buy once fired LC 5.56 brass, roll sized, trimmed, primer pocket reamed, formed to BO, chamfered, annealed, pin tumbled and shipped for like .10-.12 a round, I just cant see the point to messing with it....
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Old May 12, 2019, 18:15   #8
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WOW!











































People still shoot the Blackout?
Yeah, highly overrated niche round. When I reloaded
for it briefly, I found the “approved” brass had troubles
just like the others.

Having to gage a piece of brass after sizing, then again
after loading was a PITA. Bulged necks happened in a lot
of different cases.
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Old May 12, 2019, 20:54   #9
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Yeah, highly overrated niche round. When I reloaded
for it briefly, I found the “approved” brass had troubles
just like the others.

Having to gage a piece of brass after sizing, then again
after loading was a PITA. Bulged necks happened in a lot
of different cases.
Got to realize that some brass is thicker then others. If you use brass that is too thick it will not chamber and some will look bulged.

There is a good list of brass to use in conversion. It is a fun cartridge to load for and a blast to shoot.
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Old May 13, 2019, 01:24   #10
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Got to realize that some brass is thicker then others. If you use brass that is too thick it will not chamber and some will look bulged.

There is a good list of brass to use in conversion. It is a fun cartridge to load for and a blast to shoot.
Like I said, the “approved” brass on the list sometimes
didn’t work.
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Old May 13, 2019, 02:08   #11
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300BO thru a good suppressor is amazing.

Looks like a killer setup KoKoDog!
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Old May 13, 2019, 06:36   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuscan Raider View Post
Yeah, highly overrated niche round. When I reloaded
for it briefly, I found the “approved” brass had troubles
just like the others.

Having to gage a piece of brass after sizing, then again
after loading was a PITA. Bulged necks happened in a lot
of different cases.
Sorry to hear of your issues,,,but I cant lend any input, because Ive never had one.
Never 'bulged' a neck, never 'gauged' a case or loaded round, dont even own any 'gauge' for it.

It is a niche cartridge though, and fits a few different niches pretty well.
In my case the niche is shooting cast bullets at full power really cheap.
Shooting 160gr home cast at the same velocity the m1 carbine can manage with 110gr jacketed bullets fits my 'cheap bassturd' niche very well,,,
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Old May 13, 2019, 06:52   #13
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Back in 2011 when I got started doing specialty ammo there were numerous discussions about the best way to do it since there was little to no ‘new’ brass on the market. Then we had 2012.....completely reordered the ammo world into survival mode. There was almost nothing to work with over nite.

We had some sources for 223brass but it was a pain. Almost all of the euro third world brass had thicker shoulders and caused numerous problems. Ive still got the very first 223 machine head GSI built for the 1050......if you don’t have a stock pile of supplies it matters not how stuff you have.....

Your set up would have been a dream come true during our darkest hours in 2012. Keep you powder dry. Good job.

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Old May 13, 2019, 09:44   #14
KoKodog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuscan Raider View Post
Yeah, highly overrated niche round. When I reloaded
for it briefly, I found the “approved” brass had troubles
just like the others.

Having to gage a piece of brass after sizing, then again
after loading was a PITA. Bulged necks happened in a lot
of different cases.

sorry to hear you have had such problems

here is the thread on "better" choices of brass, "most of the time" LC brass is a safe choice for forming blackout brass

http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/view...?f=141&t=88599

if your brass was not annealed before being formed there is a very good chance that you have springback at the shoulder creating several issues

among these are thicker necks because of "brass flow", under heat and pressure brass flows, just like excess pressure makes a primer cup flow around a firing pin and bolt face

you might need to turn the outside of the necks on your brass due to there being too much material and when you have necks that are thicker than 0.013" and a 0.308" bullet ( 0.013" + 0.013" + 0.308" = 0.334" or greater given your brass measurements ) and that becomes too much for some dies and many chambers ....... this can lead to deformed bullets during seating and can be much worse w/ cast bullets

it is very easy to bulge cases when seating bullets due to the mechanical advantage of the arm & ram on most presses today
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Old May 14, 2019, 10:59   #15
KoKodog
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300BO thru a good suppressor is amazing.

Looks like a killer setup KoKoDog!

oh man its slicker than owl shit !
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Old May 17, 2019, 05:51   #16
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It is a fun cartridge to load for and a blast to shoot.
I am late to the 300 BO game. I have seven grandchildren and while the older ones shoot 308, 270 and 300 win mags for big game. I was looking for something for my youngest 6 year old grandson to hunt deer and bear with. That was the age his mom, my daughter in law and I agreed he should start deer and bear hunting. He's small yet and I figured it would be a good choice for him with super sonic ammo. I have been having a great time doing load development with this little cartridge. It is a fun round to experiment with. We are at the point now where I almost have as many 300 BO chambered rifles as 223's and it happened quickly.
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Old May 18, 2019, 07:35   #17
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I built three BO's ran for a few months and traded off the barrels. Later tried again when Lehigh and others came out with high performance subsonic projectiles but cost to keep enough on hand if really needed just didn't make sense the second go around.

I don't want an anemic supersonic round as have 7.62×39 covering that already and loading 160 grain cast is cheap as handgun loading. Now have a few 458 SOCOM's and a 500 grain 45 caliber cast bullet will thump cap out of anything I need to shoot subsonic. I do shoot a top of Aguila 22 LR Sniper Subsonic round work and the house. Squirrels, ground hogs and coyote just fall DRT when the 60 grain soft lead bullet hits them and it's fairly economical plus match accurate to 100 yards. Doubt I will try the 300 BO again unless someone gives me a truckload of loaded ammo ready to run.
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Old May 18, 2019, 07:53   #18
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Huey, you can get 500 of 220gr cast bullets from leatherhead for about $65 I think.

It's as cheap to load as 223 is. Granted that is more of a plinking round for me because it doesn't expand. Though at subsonic levels, neither do the jacketed commercial bullets either.

Of course, I do know what you mean about the Lehigh bullets.

Maker bullets (brand) has another expanding subsonic bullet too. Though they're not what I would call cheap either.

Regardless, my integrally suppressed upper that I designed and built is my primary HD long gun and would be perfectly suited for hunting anything in my woods.
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Old May 18, 2019, 14:57   #19
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Not knocking the 300 BO per se, just for me the 458 SOCOM has over double the energy on target. If I need to be slippery quiet do not want to have to shoot twice or worse have my zombie get an unsupressed round off before their heart quits. That said, have considered a 300 BO with binary trigger and glue it in binary mode so everything gets double tapped without thought.

I have built more 6.8's in past four years than any bother cartridge in an AR 15. Sucks for subsonic but hits like a train considering the size chassis its in. Have a six pack of 458 SOCOM's so always have a subsonic gun close and running. Have a six pack of AR 15's in 22 Nosler for those edge of or just beyond 5.56 range then do most of my plinking with 5.56 due to economy.

I just built another 10/22 today on Tactical Innovations receiver with 16.25" threaded Kidd barrel. This gives me four dedicated rimfire set up for the 60 grain Aguila Sniper Subsonic. Its amazing the difference in performance on game when step up from a 40 grain bullet to 60 grains when locked your velocity down to 1,050 fps. 50% more mass is turning a 10/22 into a 5.56 in subsonic role.

Just need a pile of teenage girls to run all the suppressed rimfires am piling around the house. The one finished today held rifle offhand at 50 feet after bore sighting and popped off three rounds. Walked down to target and was puzzled as to where other two rounds went. Did rifle hit with first and something cause it to go so loopy the second two went off target? Looked closer and realized offhand all three basically went in a single hole but had to iron it out to see was slightly over 0.22". Got it sighted and at 25 yards from a rest only rounds that don't follow each other though same hole are where operator screwed up the shot.

If I was relegated to limited number of AR 15's wife would let in the house and didn't reload would have to own a 300 BO. Luckily when have to buy another vault to house the recent builds wife does not complain. Am on a rimfire building rampage currently then plan to start into M14's in 6.5 Creedmore. Have a pair of AR 10's in 338 Federal which if adjust them and run my subsonic loads they work very well and if need full power they become thumpers.

Wife didn't feel good today but when saw the new 10/22 she ran a BX25 mag full and loves it. Like Walther PK 380's, tricked out 30 Carbines and massaged SKS's may have to hide a few as she steals guns she likes and won't give them back. First pair of 5.7x28 AR's she took day they came home and I have never gotten to do anything but clean them and re-stuff magazines for her.

She can shoot more 160 grain cast in 7.62x39 than is easy for me to keep up with at the reloading bench. She knows how cheap it is to shoot and thus trains with it more than anything. IMO 300 BO has no advantage over 7.62x39 when look at cost to operate. easy to stick a 200 grain bullet in the combloc and run it subsonic.
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