The FAL Files  

Go Back   The FAL Files > Discussion Forums > The Great Outdoors

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old May 09, 2019, 23:22   #1
Stoney
Former 0311
Contributor
Bronze Contributor
 
Stoney's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 1205
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Brush Prairie, WA USA
Posts: 5,736
Snake Bite Season:

where I live we don't have poisonous snakes, western WA is too wet, so this just FYI

Snake Bite Season: Liquid Benadryl (Children's) 1 mg per Lb body Weight......Teaspoon = 12.5 LBS Body Weight. Keep it on hand if your in Snake Country......almost as fast as injection. (Still get them to the Vet as quickly as possible)
This Article was written with regards:

BENADRYL FOR SNAKE BITES

This article was written by a veterinarian of the United Waterfowlers Forum.

"First, let me say that I have been a vet for 23 years in N Florida. We treat probably an average of 15 snake bites a year. That would translate to over 300 snake bite cases I have treated, or been involved in. So my opinions are not based on what happened to one dog, or my neighbor's dog or even the 2 dogs that have been bitten that I personally owned. So not only have I treated a lot, but since I do treat so many, I stay current with current treatment options and what works best (based on data, not stories).

So, here goes with some absolutes about snakes. The things that follow are facts that I have either observed or read or both.

-There is no magic time for how long until treatment. get them there as soon as you safely can. I have saved dogs that were bitten 24 hours prior and had patients die that I saw within 30 minutes. The exception is if there is a bite to the tongue or inside of mouth that may cause breathing issues. I have never seen a bite to the nose cause life threatening breathing issues.

-You do not need to make any effort whatsoever to "get the snake" to take it to the vet. If it is poisonous and causes swelling, we know what to do. The only other poisonous snake in FL is the coral and it does not cause swelling. Unless it is some released species and we will not have antivenin anyway.

-Antivenin (antivenom) is NOT an antidote (meaning it cures). I rarely give it anymore. There are situations where I think it is best to give it, but I have found very little prediction of survival based on antivenin administration. There are some cases that are so bad, you had better use everything you have (bites to the trunk (body) of small dogs or cats).

-Benadryl (Diphenhydramine) is NEVER wrong to give and almost always, if not always, will help the patient. The liquid is nearly as fast as an injection. 1mg per pound of body weight (or Children's Liquid, generic is fine - 1 tsp for every 12.5 pounds of body weight if they are bitten).

-Treatment by a veterinarian will ALWAYS result in less disease for the patient. Absolutely, many patients will survive without veterinary treatment. But snake venom is a huge protein and huge proteins are deposited on the basement membrane of the kidneys when filtered. This leads to immune related injury to the kidneys from snake bites that may not be clinically relevant, but could lead to permanent kidney damage that could affect them later in life. Intravenous fluids reduces this risk as well as keeps the patient well hydrated to get rid of the venom and reduce the toxins built up from necrotic (dead) tissue resulting from snake bites. Simply put, if you want to increase the dogs chances of survival and less long term disease, take them to the vet.

-Moccasins are the least toxic, copperheads next (we have tons of them around here) and rattlesnakes are the worst. Moccasins may have more tissue toxicity-damage local tissue and pain-but they are the least toxic of the snakes. But they can still kill a dog.

A lot of factors play a role in the odds for the dog:

*Location of bite-nose, face, head, legs, trunk of body (best to worst)
*time of year-fall snakes have been actively feeding and have less stored venom, spring snakes have more likelihood of having stored venom from less recent feeding
*amount of injection - a miss or an oblique bite that does not get full injection
*species of snake
*size of snake (more venom = more serious)
*prior history of bites improves patients odds (more immune response to the venom)

-anyone, vet or otherwise, can NOT predict which dog will live and which will survive by looking at them, or even by running tests. there are just so many variables. I can often tell someone that the odds are bad or that the odds are good, but sometimes I am wrong. I still get surprised.

IV fluids are the single most important factor that we can control in helping a snake bite victim recover with the minimal amount of disease, with benadryl being second. Some patients are going to die, no matter if they were in a veterinary University Teaching Hospital at the time of the bite and there is NOTHING that could have been done to save them. I have had patients die with 30 minutes of the bite (one was a Jack Russel bit in the side of the chest, the other was an American Bulldog bit between 5-10 times all over the body).

If you ask me, "What can I do to make the odds the best in my dog's favor that it will not die from a snake bite?", I would say:

a) keep benadryl in your dog first aid kit - Children's Liquid, generic is fine. Give them 1 tsp for every 12.5 pounds of body weight if they are bitten.

DO get your dog to a vet if they are bitten as soon as reasonably possible - do not be over-dramatic and get in a car accident to get there, but do not stop at the dry cleaners on the way either. Proceed with due haste."
__________________
Stoney
“You can take a man out of the Corps, but you can’t take the Corps out of the man.”
The Gunny RIP

GOOD MORNING, WELCOME TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Press "1" for English.
Press "2" to disconnect until you have learned to speak English.

"Some minds are like concrete, thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.”

Has freedom been replaced with Free-Dumb.

Illegitimi non carborundum

A 1911A1 is like a Glock, except it's for grownups.

AMERICA! Designed by geniuses. Now run by idiots.

"The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen." Thank God for the United States Marine Corps!"
Eleanor Roosevelt, 1945

Old Viking saying: Never be more then two steps from your weapon

Flying is a hard way to earn an easy living.

Last edited by Stoney; May 10, 2019 at 16:37.
Stoney is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 09, 2019, 23:53   #2
Right Side Up
Registered
 
Right Side Up's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 43
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,678
Dumb question maybe...but would this apply to people as well?
Right Side Up is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 10, 2019, 13:15   #3
slavicshooter
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
slavicshooter's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 74022
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Hannibal, Mo.
Posts: 3,593
Thanks for the link. About once a year one of my dogs will take a bite to the snout/face from a copperhead. All the other bites are from non-venomous snakes and raccoons. ~ss
__________________
" In truth there is only one freedom - the holy freedom of Christ, whereby He freed us from sin, from evil, from the devil. It binds us to God. All other freedoms are illusory, false, that is to say, they are all, in fact, slavery."~St. Justin Popovitch

" Slavs are fueled by booze. I thought this was common knowledge."~lew

юродивый
slavicshooter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 10, 2019, 20:39   #4
Bigedge
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 82263
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 4
Thanks for the tip
Bigedge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11, 2019, 07:36   #5
yovinny
Old Fart
Silver Contributor
 
yovinny's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 7679
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: NY transplant to central Illinois, Now in Kentucky
Posts: 6,063
We have copperheads by the bushel here,,,great info,,thanks for passing that on..
yovinny is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 16, 2019, 09:56   #6
Atla
Registered
Contributor
 
Atla's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 79587
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Right Side Up View Post
Dumb question maybe...but would this apply to people as well?
That's what I was wondering.
__________________
~Atla.
Gun Powder and Ink.
Atla is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 16, 2019, 11:21   #7
tac-40
Moderator
Armed Curmudgeon
 
tac-40's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 12090
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: SC-Low Country
Posts: 8,260
Prior to retiring, I received some training for snakebite treatment in our area. Because the LEO's are often the first on the scene for the 911 call, somebody decided we needed some learning about what to do instead of standing there and saying the ambulance be a'comin.

The bites of most snakes in the US are hemotoxin and not neurotoxin. Hemotoxin affects the blood and neurotoxin affects the nervous system. The venom does not cause allergic or similar reactions by the human body. The only time an allergic reaction comes into play during a snake bite is during the administration of the horse derived anti-venom. It apparently has a high rate of allergic episodes. A newer anti-venom is derived from another animal, sheep IIRC, and does not have the same allergic episodes present in the horse serum.

The recommended treatment for a human bite is a constricting band near the bite site to prevent blood flow through the lymph system. Use of a tourniquet is no longer recommended. A constriction band is basically a rubber band that slightly compresses the skin. Also not recommended is the use of a blade to cut open the puncture wounds to allow bleeding to flush out the venom. A suction device is the only recommended field treatment other than the constriction bands. Notice I wrote suction device. Your mouth is not a suction device. Not only is the person injured susceptible to infection from the other person's mouth, the person applying the suction could be infected by whatever the bitten person has in their blood. Everybody loses in this instance.

So, put on constricting bands, keep the person calm and seek medical treatment immediately.
__________________
Only 2 defining forces have ever offered to die for you. Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

Schools uses to start with the "three R's". Reading, writing, and arithmetic. Now they start with the "three D's". Dipshitery, Dumbassery, and Douchebaggery-Retired Bum

If you do in fact have a problem, you have the rest of your life to solve it. How long your life lasts only depends on how well you solve it.
tac-40 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 16, 2019, 11:44   #8
hagar
Registered
 
hagar's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 228
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 9,931
If you get bit by a Coral snake, or a Mohave green rattlesnake, put your head between your legs, and kiss your butt goodbye..

Liquid Benadryl has many good uses, I have used it for wasp stings with good results. It surely will not make a snake bite any worse.
hagar is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 18:09.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©1998-2018 The FAL Files