Safari Rifles

[Fleabus]

I've always been a fan of safari lore and stories of past
PH hunters. WDM Bell, Col Patterson, the recent late great P Capstick.
Currently started rereading " Death in the long Grass"..
So a chance came up for me to buy a real deal on a classic style drop box magazine rifle proff built by
Brockmans Rifles..
Its one of their Dangerous game pcs in 300 mag on a CZ
true magnum actions. 5 in the magazine one up the spout.
The rifle looks exactly like the one on Brockmans Rifles
website in their dangerous game category.
I got it for 1/3 of its listed sale price thru a private sale.
Ive added a straight tube vintage Burris 1x4.5 fullfield
for glassing it.
Now when I read Capstick I can stroke my PH style rifle
and dream of African treks far away..
Got lucky on this one.
Best Fleabus...

[MAINER]

What? No pics? There needs to be pics!

Well, Kudo's on you anyway. That's a heck of a coup right there.

Got to ask however, a DBM on a "classic" Safari rifle? I have one Bolt gun with a BDM and while it seemed a good idea at the time, as a reloader it does limit my cartridge OAL which will be a consideration on my next rifle. It is kind of handy to dump the magazine with a push of the button however.

Enjoy your Safari rifle you lucky debil!

[hagar]

I met Capstick at a Safari Convention in Vegas back in the early 90's. He was an interesting character, like his books even though it is probably 75% true, 25% fiction. In one of his books he wrote about a young guy that got attacked by a hippo in Kenya and flown to South Africa for treatment. I was on the plane when they flew him back to the US.

He told me the animal he feared the most was the jaguar, and that was the only dangerous cat that ever bit him.

[VALMET]

Am a big Capstick fan and am currently re-reading “Safari Rifles” by Boddington. Capstick’s “Death in the Silent Places” is also a good read. My German mfg .378 Wby Mag scratches my elephant-bashing itch.

[MACV]

I went thru the safari rifle phase about 15-20 years ago. I think everybody should own at least one. Unless you're sensitive to heavy recoil. I still own a 458 and a 375 H&H. You never know when a rhino might escape from the zoo and terrorize your neighborhood.
It could happen

[gunplumber]

I"ve always wanted a double rifle in .45-70. Although I appreciate the external hammer colt 1878 Style, I also like the single trigger sabatti . Apparently Beretta made one also - GR2? - with double trigger.

Remington has one - the SPR22, but it is rather inelegant. (Really a Baiikal?)

[Bwana John]

I went thru the safari rifle phase about 15-20 years ago. I think everybody should own at least one. Unless you're sensitive to heavy recoil. I still own a 458 and a 375 H&H. You never know when a rhino might escape from the zoo and terrorize your neighborhood.
It could happen

Or when you might have to sort out a Jumbo in the memsahib's vegetable garden.

My African quiver consists of a light 7mm Mauser, a medium 375 H&H, and a heavy 416 Rigby.

[J. Armstrong]

Originally Posted by gunplumber

I"ve always wanted a double rifle in .45-70. Although I appreciate the external hammer colt 1878 Style, I also like the single trigger sabatti . Apparently Beretta made one also - GR2? - with double trigger.

Remington has one - the SPR22, but it is rather inelegant. (Really a Baiikal?)

Amen ! I've always joneses for one, although I have no idea why.

Are the Baikals that bad ?

[VALMET]

My .378 Wby is currently the biggest bore in my collection but I’ve always wanted a .416 Taylor and like an idiot I recently passed on a moderately priced one on a CZ-Brno action.

[bulletslap]

Friends of mine with bigger bank accounts than mine, and who have used heavy rifles recommend Chapuis Double Rifles as a good rifle for the money.

I will have to make do with my old Siamese Mauser Sporter in 45-70.

[gunplumber]

Originally Posted by J. Armstrong

Are the Baikals that bad ?

Just cosmetically - they are promoted as a working man's double. $600 ish. To me they look like a Ruger Red label. Birch stock and drab finish. Serviceable, but for the elegance they lack, they may as well be real-tree camo.

I think EAA makes a coach gun with .45-70 barrel inserts - slight elliptical mounts for regulation. Review said 6" at 50 yards. That's kindof my fantasy one day is to make a .45-70 double off an old shotgun action.

https://www.gunsamerica.com/UserImag...wm_5171525.jpg

[Mebsuta]

Originally Posted by hagar

He told me the animal he feared the most was the jaguar, and that was the only dangerous cat that ever bit him.

I thought he feared the leopard. I read some of his books a long time ago. I kind of remember him saying the leopard killed and ate more people than it was given credit for, and that they were dangerous and smart and sometimes hunted him.

[easttex]

Originally Posted by gunplumber

I"ve always wanted a double rifle in .45-70. Although I appreciate the external hammer colt 1878 Style, I also like the single trigger sabatti . Apparently Beretta made one also - GR2? - with double trigger.

Remington has one - the SPR22, but it is rather inelegant. (Really a Baiikal?)

I have a Siamese Mauser wearing a Douglas 45-70 barrel squirreled away in the safe that I hope to get around to some time in the future. That'll be a fun blaster if I ever get it finished.

[J. Armstrong]

Originally Posted by Mebsuta

I thought he feared the leopard. I read some of his books a long time ago. I kind of remember him saying the leopard killed and ate more people than it was given credit for, and that they were dangerous and smart and sometimes hunted him.

That's what I remembered as well. IIRC, Ruark felt that way about leopard, might be what I am remembering.

Hard to beat either Capstick or Ruark.

[D P Six]

Chapstick lived the dream! Born in NJ, worked in lower Manhattan and ends up a PH in Africa. That only happens in the movies.

[Story]

[V guy]

Ruger makes some great looking Safari Grade rifles, as does Winchester.

"Garage Art", or rather Gun Room Art.

I love machines.

Recoil is stout with full house loads in a .458 Lott, but not so bad in a .375H&H, and both can be loaded down to impress your friends at the range, with those huge shells.

A light 45-70 Marlin lever action will kick your ass. Light weight and poor stock design is why, but to save your life, nothing beats a heavy bullet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsqTXEM02Mk

[nmcollektor]

Originally Posted by J. Armstrong

Amen ! I've always joneses for one, although I have no idea why.

Are the Baikals that bad ?

I have one and they're fine. The overall quality (including the stock) is better than you would expect for the price point, although the triggers need work out of the box.

Mine groups 2" - 4" at 50 yards consistently. I have been told not to bother shooting it further than that as you wouldn't in a real safari situation.

The good thing is - it's heavier than it looks, so the 45/70 PUSH is very manageable.

The bad thing is - like any double - the accuracy can't really be adjusted without a complete re-welding of the barrels, which explains the high cost of most of the doubles out there.

It is a head turner at the range for sure.

I looked for an SPR-22 in 45/70 for over a year without finding one, so I gave in and got the Baikal.

[frankxtc]

This thread motivated me go and find my 1968 copy of Elmer Keith's "Safari".

I recalled a passage from chapter 7 "Your African Battery, Part 1 - Rifles for dangerous game"

Elmer is explaining to the reader which calibers are best for each type of African game, and for different situations.

Page 84

"Though the lion can be taken with a .375, the big bores are infinitely better under most conditions you will encounter today.
Most of the lion and leopard are baited, or you trail them up on wet ground, and we have even trailed them several miles over hard baked ground.
At any rate you will seldom get but one shot at the lion or leopard and it is imperative that you kill or disable him with your first shot, or he will reach cover.
Then you have trouble in large quantity on your hands.
The lion is an old gentleman and even at close range will usually growl before he charges and let you know his position, not so the leopard.
That spotted cat will hide like a pheasant and won't move until you are in certain reach, then he will jump you.
For these reasons it's best to use a big gun on lion and also a good reason for the use of a powerful small rifle on the leopard.
If you get a wounded leopard in dense bush or grass the shotgun is then the best weapon if loaded with buckshot.

You won't see him until he jumps and you won't have time to either mount the gun or aim and the best you can do is simply ram it at him like a spear and shoot at the same time."

[Invictus77]

Originally Posted by gunplumber

I"ve always wanted a double rifle in .45-70.
Remington has one - the SPR22

I've always wanted one as well, but my Google-fu is not pulling up any on Gonebroker or elswehere actually for sale.

Were these a limited run with just a few out there or are my web search skills just lacking?

[nmcollektor]

I have pretty good search skills as well, but never found one available - just those that had sold, mostly on Gunsamerica - where they don't list a price afterwards.

You can find the 30.06 SPR-22 pretty easily, but often overpriced at $1500 or more.

[MajHenryWest]

Over the years I have had the opportunity to
Look at some of the older dangerous game guns,
Has anyone here shot the 2 bore or 4 bore rifles?
Huge black powder metallic cartridges.

How about .600 or .700 Nitro Express?

[yovinny]

Ive shot a Kneghoff 500 nitro express double rifle, just a hand full of years ago.
Used Hornady ammo and It kicked some, but not as bad as I was expecting.
Still, not something I could ever really need or afford myself.

All my 'safari' hunting is limited to when I get a wild hair and use my winny 70 in 375 h&h or a marlin 45-70 on the local white tails...

[V guy]

Regarding Baikals, they are great for hunting.

Try to bring one to a sporting clays, skeet or trap shoot.

You will shortly be embarassed by the expensive guns most shoot. Perazzis's, Kreighoffs, Brownings, Kolars, Remington 3200's, Winchester Diamond Grade, etc.

You CAN get away with a Remington 870 pump, as Remington has them for sporting clays, skeet and trap versions. Same with the Remington 1187 and 1100 models, for those sports too.


Don't be the guy who shows up at a car show........ with a Yugo.

[davedude]

I hadn't ever really thought about a double rifle much, I just assumed they were out of my reach financially. Would love the opportunity.
I have been lusting after a 20 gauge Howdah pistol replica though as I have a couple black powder firearms in the same caliber already. One is a bit of a disappointment-- made in India 1720 French Dragoon horse pistol replica flinter with a 30# trigger pull and very crude lock. I shoot a patched .600 320g round ball behind a mild 30g of FF. The Pedersoli Howdah would be a nice step up and the charge could increase considerably.



These were supposed to be last ditch tiger defense back in the day. No tigers around here but maybe would work fine on a nasty hog.

[idsubgun]

My dad was a huge African safari and Capstick fan so I grew up with his books.
When I went to Africa on safari in 2001, I went with Ruger No. 1's, in .375 H&H and 6mm Rem. It was a great hunt. Three generations, my dad, me and my son. My son shot his first big game animal in Africa so he has that story to tell for the rest of his life. He was 13.
I shot my first Gemsbok with the .375 and then I put it down for the rest of the safari, and used my 6mm, which took everything from Gemsbok to Zebra to Springbok to Blesbok to Greater Kudu.

I asked my PH which rifle he preferred, and he owned a 7mm Mag. He said he hated it when a client showed up with .458 Win Mag's, and other rifles like that because most people flinch too much to make a good shot with them. Too much recoil. He really hated the .458. He said he had to track more animals shot with the .458 then any other caliber.

I did have to convince an Afrikaner in the Namibian Kalahari to allow me to use my 6mm when we hunted his land. He thought it was too small for plains game but my son took a Gemsbok, and I took a Gemsbok, both dropped dead with one round each.

Now, if I was hunting the Big 5, then I would carry a .375 H&H with 300 gr. solids. That round will kill anything in Africa. No need for .458's, .416's, etc, when you hit them in the vitals.

I shot a few deer and one elk with my .375 H&H in Idaho. I liked how it didn't tear up, and bloody the meat around the hole. Plus it dropped them like an invisible truck had hit them!
I sold my .375 but still have a .300 H&H Remington Classic. I was looking for the Remington Classic in .375 H&H so I would have both H&H's but I'm past my big game hunting days and really don't need it. Maybe one will come by for a good price someday..........

If anyone is interested, I used PH Fred Burchell, a descendant of British explorer and naturalist William John Burchell, who actually named many of the species he found in the mid 1800's.
Fred's web site. I went on the Namibian hunt, at the northern and southern farms. http://frontiersafaris.com/
I highly suggest if you can swing the money, you should really go on safari in Africa. You'll love it!!


Some of my trophies.
My Zebra was a huge mare. The rug is 11 feet long! When my wife and I searched for our retirement home, we had a list of items we wanted, but at the top of the list was a house with a wall big enough for this rug.





This one was my dad's Springbok. We went out on a meat hunt one morning, and dad shot this one.

[skeeterbay]

idsubgun wrote: "I shot a few deer and one elk with my .375 H&H in Idaho. I liked how it didn't tear up, and bloody the meat around the hole. Plus it dropped them like an invisible truck had hit them!"

I have been using a 9.3X62 for deer the last few years. I get less meat damage with it then I do with a 308 or 06.

[Andy the Aussie]

This thread needs more pics..!!!!

My @1972 Winchester M70 .375H&H, bought it @1983 as a 14yo

[Mebsuta]

IIRC Capstick was not that wild about crocodiles. He stopped short of saying they should be hunted into extinction. I think he said those things and the leopards were bad news and ate the most people.

I think we only have salt water crocodiles in USA.

[Jarhead504]

I read somewhere years ago that some African countries will not let you hunt big game with anything less than a .40 caliber rifle, no matter what manufacturer.

Jarhead

[idsubgun]

Originally Posted by Jarhead504

I read somewhere years ago that some African countries will not let you hunt big game with anything less than a .40 caliber rifle, no matter what manufacturer.

Jarhead

Never seen that, but may be truth. It'd be a stupid rule!

Some countries won't let you in-country with military ammo. So you might not be able to take your favorite .308 custom bolt gun.

[Jarhead504]

Originally Posted by idsubgun

Never seen that, but may be truth. It'd be a stupid rule!

Some countries won't let you in-country with military ammo. So you might not be able to take your favorite .308 custom bolt gun.

I think that was in "Soldier of Fortune" magazine. They used to cover a lot of stories and adventures of African game hunters.

Jarhead

[grumpy1]

I believe that most countries won’t allow a hunter to hunt the big 5 with anything less than a .375 caliber. I do remember reading in one of the outdoor magazines a story about 10 years ago where the writer was allowed to use a 30-06 to take a Cape buffalo.

I’ve wanted a 375 H&H since I was kid but I’m not sure I’ll ever own one, even if I make it to the dark continent. I have dreams of making it there one day but I think I’ll just take my Weatherby Mark V in 338-06. I think it will be able to take all the game I’d want to hunt. I’ve got a supply of original Bearclaw bullets as well as some Barns bullets just for the trip.

[Andy the Aussie]

I have a dirty little secret....I do love hunting all manner of critters with my .375. I accept that it is a bit much gun for rabbits but that certainly does not stop me. As a kid (remember I got it at 14) many bunnies got cratered, but that turned into pigs and goats (we have LOTS of feral goats) and then in my late teens off into the far north hunting Asiatic Buffalo. I don't need an excuse to hunt with it.... When I was getting ready to go to Africa I used it for much of my hunting here (mostly pigs and Fallow Deer.....but a good number of bunnies as well) for the 18 months before I went. Offhand/field shooting it is not at all punishing and does bring a smile to my face...

[SWOHFAL]

Originally Posted by grumpy1

I believe that most countries won’t allow a hunter to hunt the big 5 with anything less than a .375 caliber. I do remember reading in one of the outdoor magazines a story about 10 years ago where the writer was allowed to use a 30-06 to take a Cape buffalo.

I’ve wanted a 375 H&H since I was kid but I’m not sure I’ll ever own one, even if I make it to the dark continent. I have dreams of making it there one day but I think I’ll just take my Weatherby Mark V in 338-06. I think it will be able to take all the game I’d want to hunt. I’ve got a supply of original Bearclaw bullets as well as some Barns bullets just for the trip.

9.3 x 62 is given an exception many places, as would be 9.3 x 74R.

[Uriah Lee]

I had at one time one of those Baiikal double rifles in 30/06. Should have gotten the 45/70 though. Fair gun for the price point. Not at all pretty, but built like a tank. Barrels were fitted so close it was that after having removed for cleaning, they were a challenge fitting back together again. Regulated well at 50 yards. After that hits got cross eyed.

Was ostracized for hunting deer with a 375. When I pointed out the damage done with my hits compared to others with their 30/06's and 7mm's, it became very clear who was over gunned. Those heavy walled bullets passed through without that explosive tissue damage, yet still took em down. One of the best all around calibers.

[the gman]

Originally Posted by V guy

Regarding Baikals, they are great for hunting.

Try to bring one to a sporting clays, skeet or trap shoot.

You will shortly be embarassed by the expensive guns most shoot. Perazzis's, Kreighoffs, Brownings, Kolars, Remington 3200's, Winchester Diamond Grade, etc.

You CAN get away with a Remington 870 pump, as Remington has them for sporting clays, skeet and trap versions. Same with the Remington 1187 and 1100 models, for those sports too.


Don't be the guy who shows up at a car show........ with a Yugo.

That might be the way at some rich, east coast snob clubs but my first shotgun I bought on my own was a Baikal O/U with 2 sets of barrels, one for trap and the other for skeet in a factory case. I used that gun to kill more game and win more trap, skeet and sporting clays competitions in the UK than I care to think about. Was great to see the faces of the ass holes shooting high dollar Beretta and Browning shotguns get whipped by an 18 year old kid with a Russian shotgun that was ugly to start with but was made more ugly by my half assed attempt to fit a recoil pad to it with an orbital sander then refinish the stock with polyurethane furniture finish.

I grew up with a shotgun in my hands, shot every weekend with my dad at live game like rabbits, pigeons, hares, magpies, crows and other vermin. Live game doesn't follow a predictable path like clays do so it was a damn sight easier to hit them than a pigeon flitting thru the trees in a wood while you were standing sideways on a hill... Unfortunately, wing shooting is a perishable skill and I think I'd have trouble hitting flying game these days.

[V guy]

I get your experience.

All those high dollar guns make you wince, but most are owned by middle class older people who just have to have the best.
Damn few lawyers shoot guns. Guys who own legal MG's are usually middle class guys who just have to have them.

A Remington 3200 Skeet is still coveted.

I limited myself mostly to Remington (3200) and Winchester (101) brands, now obsolete for many many years.
I did use a BT99 for some time however, and that took a Handicap match......shot 177 straight without a miss.

My buddies all bought Kolars, Perazzis, Brownings, Krieghoffs, etc. I would buy a Remington 90T if I could find one.

I find the same thing goes on in drag racing and SCCA racing and most gun sports.
Track night in America, has guys running all sorts of fast, $$$$ iron.
Pick you poison, life is short.

[Brother Wayne]

Originally Posted by davedude

I hadn't ever really thought about a double rifle much, I just assumed they were out of my reach financially. Would love the opportunity.
I have been lusting after a 20 gauge Howdah pistol replica though as I have a couple black powder firearms in the same caliber already. One is a bit of a disappointment-- made in India 1720 French Dragoon horse pistol replica flinter with a 30# trigger pull and very crude lock. I shoot a patched .600 320g round ball behind a mild 30g of FF. The Pedersoli Howdah would be a nice step up and the charge could increase considerably.



These were supposed to be last ditch tiger defense back in the day. No tigers around here but maybe would work fine on a nasty hog.

I have an Indian made Howdah and a brass barreled(sea service) Ketland .62 caliber flintlock pistol. Mine also has a precision trigger pull like yours. I picked them up for fun and a purpose. I load both of them with 20 gauge components and carry them on the 4-wheeler when changing waters on the farm or when I'm on an open cab tractor in the fields. This is for Rock Chucks and Skunks. When loaded with #6 shot or even #4 these will pole axe said varmints. I have also carried one or the other when scouting fields in areas known to have Rattlesnakes. Is this practical? Don't I have a modern pistol that I can shoot shot capsules in? Well yes. But sometimes you have to be fun and impractical.
BW