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Old August 14, 2019, 14:38   #1
Cossack
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Unibody SUV for lightweight off-roading("bad-roading")?

I'm considering getting a lightweight car-chassis 4wd/AWD SUV to use as a daily driver with a secondary role as a mountain and hunting rig -something like a Subaru Forester, RAV4, or Ford Escape.

My wife is trying to balance the monthly budget and cutting gas bills will help. However, we still need to be able to get around rural Montana and hunt a bit!

I'm not looking for true rock-crawling, mud bogging performance, but I need something that can handle rutted forest service roads with jutting rocks, very shallow stream crossings, and busting through our snow drifted driveway in winter.

Looking for:
-Probaby 8-12 years old to fit our budget
-reliable!
-good crash and rollover ratings
-22+ mpg combined town/hwy - I'd rather have 25 or so....
-4 doors
-More space inside preferred (Outback?) - enough for family junk or, with the seats down, a dead animal.
-excellent snow handling

I know this class of vehicle is not truly meant for off road work, but do any stand out as at least good enough for terrible mountain roads? I know there are many other comparable models to the ones I've listed.

I know the Subarus have over 8" of ground clearance. I'd love more, but don't think I'll get it in this class of vehicle. Any ideas?

I like the idea of a Ford Escape Hybrid for fuel economy. Do they sacrifice any reliability or performance vs a non-hybrid?
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Old August 14, 2019, 15:05   #2
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We have an Outback, and love it a lot. (Wifeys car). It's our second one, this one is a 2017. No problems ever, but only put 65k on the first one. I had a Crosstrek and loved it!! Traded on an F150, cause I always wanted a truck. With the right winter tires, any Suby will go amazing places. Saw a crosstrek with winter tires on it up in deep snow, AMAZING. Gas mileage on these would be the best, as far as I know.

YMMV.
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Old August 14, 2019, 15:23   #3
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My wife drives a 2005 Kia Sportage with AWD and a locking viscous coupler at the rear diff (locks under 20-25 mph) that has great ground clearance. Might want to look at those in the year range you are considering and their cousin, the Hyundai Santa Fe. They seem pretty capable to me, but we are just winter driving in SW MI. No dirt roads, but some pretty bad driveways every now and then. This vehicle has the 2.7L V6 and it will get over 20 mpg on the highway. I don't drive it much but the calculated mpg on the display is always around 15-18ish which is 95% local stop-and-go stuff. The newer ones seem to come mostly with the 4 cylinder which will give much better mileage.
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Old August 14, 2019, 16:43   #4
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you're kidding, right?



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Old August 14, 2019, 17:03   #5
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Budget? I've heard the FJ Cruiser is pretty good. But the demand is high, and they no longer make them. 4 Runner may be an option but they seem to be less and less off road
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Old August 14, 2019, 19:35   #6
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Around here-PRK, it seems more and more people are actually lifting the subies a little and running AT KO's some skid plates and other offroad stuff and they are quite capable. Just have to pick your fights with nature.. regarding the subies I hear there can be issues with the ccvt(constant variable ) type trans but the 6 spd(?) manuals seem to be pretty bullet proof.

I have seen some VW touregs do some crazy offroad stuff with stock suspensions but it also comes down to driver also. You can get anything stuck....

The toyota FJ's I hear get actually pretty crap mileage....

4runners are reliable can be pricey and depending on the year,MPG I dont think will meet your needs.

Nissan exterras I know do not get near yuor mileage needs and they are not made either.. no idea on reliability..

You have a bit of a tough niche to fill my friend.....
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Old August 14, 2019, 19:53   #7
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Budget? I've heard the FJ Cruiser is pretty good. But the demand is high, and they no longer make them. 4 Runner may be an option but they seem to be less and less off road
FJ is great offroad, and ******* terrible at everything else. Leave that to the fanboys.

My wife's 4Runner has been great offroad. Comfy, too. Same goes for my brother's Outback. My recommendation would be between those.
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Old August 14, 2019, 20:30   #8
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I have a 2013 Ford Escape and I think this may be my last Ford (a life long Ford owner). 2.0l turbo aka no low end where you want your power for off road. The AWD seems to work ok, never been stuck but never put her up to a good test, 4-6" of snow no problem. I have the SEL with most the electronic crap on it and much of it seems to work second rate. I bought it Certified Pre-owned from Ford and have just recently gone to do brake pads for the first time at 88k mostly highway miles only to figure out that on the front 1 side has FWD brakes and the other has the correct AWD brake set up. Ford has been very frustrating to talk to anyone with a brain let alone in the US but so far 2 weeks into ot I have been told to pound sand.

My girlfriend had an old body style Kia Sorento 4wd. It had suspension mounts rust off that attached the rear differential housing to the body, the Sportage used the same setup and noticed at least one other Sorento with the same issue. That being said GF had over 300k miles when she traded into a newer Sorento 4cyl FWD. A whole nother set of problems with that 4cyl motor but Kia seems to have been top notch in fixing their self inflicted wounds.

When I go to look again I will look at the Rav4 from Toyota, the Honda CRV and the Subaru line up. Not sure ypu are going to find what I would consider hunting quality vehicle in this class.
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Old August 14, 2019, 20:32   #9
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Subaru and Toyota get my vote for your budget and requirements. Can't go wrong with either.
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Old August 15, 2019, 09:47   #10
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I have had 2 Subaru Outbacks, a 2000 and a 2014. Both have manual transmissions (no longer available on the Outback since 2014, at least 2016 Forester still had manual transmission available). The first Subie went 285K+ before I sold it to get the last year manual transmission Outback. I have been down some bad-ish gravel and dirt roads / paths in both and have never gotten stuck. I have helped folks stuck in snow (which is icy down here and not real deep) with my Subaru. As long as some of the few issues common to the make have been addressed (leaking head gaskets in some models, excess oil consumption in others) you should be good for a long haul in a Subaru.

Gas mileage in both have been good. I typically get a combined 27-28 currently and got about 25-26 with my previous Outback
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Old August 15, 2019, 13:28   #11
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Interesting. It seems that Subarus from aroun '08 on have better stock ground clearance (8.7") than the '02 Grand Cherokee (8.3") and '99 Chevy Blazer (7.6") I used to drive. I took both of them into some interesting places.
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Old August 15, 2019, 13:42   #12
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Jeep XJ, ZJ or WJ.
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Old August 15, 2019, 20:45   #13
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Jeep XJ, ZJ or WJ.
Those come nowhere close to OP mileage targets. And they arent very good rigs anyhow. And Im a Jeep guy. The XJ are OK but rough, noisy, vibrating gas hogs (I dont mind, but not what OP is looking for, I think).

Toyota things seem pretty good. Wont meet your mileage targets either. You are asking a lot. Saturn Vue AWD? Meets mileage goals but not made for offroad needs. I think you may need to flex on either capability or mileage. In which I still go with Toyota version of the XJ, or an XJ if you dont mind rust and shitty mileage.
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Old August 15, 2019, 22:12   #14
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Those come nowhere close to OP mileage targets. And they arent very good rigs anyhow. And Im a Jeep guy. The XJ are OK but rough, noisy, vibrating gas hogs (I dont mind, but not what OP is looking for, I think).

Toyota things seem pretty good. Wont meet your mileage targets either. You are asking a lot. Saturn Vue AWD? Meets mileage goals but not made for offroad needs. I think you may need to flex on either capability or mileage. In which I still go with Toyota version of the XJ, or an XJ if you dont mind rust and shitty mileage.
I like the XJs myself - and was plenty happy with the ZJ and WJ I had, but as you mention, they're not what I'm looking for.

By "Toyota version of the XJ" I assume you mean the 4runner?

I'm going to have to look more into the Subarus, since they have better stock clearance than any of the above Jeeps. That's not everything, to be sure, but it's something. Like I said, I'm not after full-on off-roading, but I need to be able to get into the mountains.

And yes, I agree I'm asking for a lot. If I can't meet all of my own demands, then of course I'll prioritize (keep my truck).
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Old August 15, 2019, 22:54   #15
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Subarus have a strong presence in the Mountain West, so as long as you're not going in significant mud or rock crawling, just fording an unbridged stream at an established crossing, you'll probably be good. Might help to get dedicated winter tires and some more aggressive pattern SUV tires. They just released a new large SUV, but their new turbo motor and CVT (also in new Outbacks) have teething issues that the older flat-six models and automatic trannies don't so a used Outback with that may be a better bet. They also sell a smaller Impreza with a standard transmission and last gen Forester had the same set-up.
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Old August 15, 2019, 23:03   #16
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We had an Outback for a hot second, and it went EVERYWHERE. Had trouble with the turbo though, and the rear end started to howl. Plus, it was a Subaru, and I just couldn't get over that because I'm shallow. Love my landcruiser, 1994, but it doesn't get anywhere near 20mpg. Still gets better than my old Grand Wagoneer did though.

I hear mid 2000 outbacks aren't as reliable as others. Tow truck drivers said they haul a lot of them.
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Old Yesterday, 07:32   #17
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Just remember this:

If you go OFF-ROAD it’s about the TIRES.

Any dummy can assess ground clearance issues. Factory tires furnished on OFF-ROAD vehicles are designed to perform decently on pavement, and BARELY on wet off-road surfaces.

Good off-road tires will suck on pavement.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

And if you want a CVT transmission, just remember that CVT is the power train concept employed by golf carts. Don’t even get me started about CVT’s.
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Old Yesterday, 09:31   #18
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And if you want a CVT transmission, just remember that CVT is the power train concept employed by golf carts. Don’t even get me started about CVT’s.
I've had three Nissans with the CVT. No problems with any of them but in all fairness, none of those saw over 45K miles while we owned it. It may be a very different story as the mileage climbs. But, put a 300hp V6 in front (or on top, hell, I don't know or care where they put it) of that CVT and it's like a big turbine. Just press that foot-feed and hold on-powerful, smooth acceleration. Up to about 135 mph when the limited kicks in...
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Old Yesterday, 09:41   #19
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Did you change the CVT transmission fluid every 15K miles?

If you did, how much did you pay for each service?
If you changed it yourself, please share your experience doing so with us.

CVT is a way for manufacturers to generate contrived MPG numbers based on unrealistic driving behavior, and with the expense of their plot being carried on the backs of the gullible and ignorant buyers.

If you can afford to buy/lease new cars, and replace them before they hit 50K, you are not within the demographic who suffers as a consequence of vehicles hobbled by a CVT.
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Old Yesterday, 09:52   #20
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Did you change the CVT transmission fluid every 15K miles?

If you did, how much did you pay for each service?
If you changed it yourself, please share your experience doing so with us.

CVT is a way for manufacturers to generate contrived MPG numbers based on unrealistic driving behavior, and with the expense of their plot being carried on the backs of the gullible and ignorant buyers.

If you can afford to buy/lease new cars, and replace them before they hit 50K, you are not within the demographic who suffers as a consequence of vehicles hobbled by a CVT.
Nope, I never changed it; perhaps it was changed during some scheduled maintenance visit.

Yes, they were all leased cars and we returned them for another car at lease's end. With a couple, we exchanged them before the lease was up. Currently, we are leasing an Infinity QX50 SUV. Wife's choice this time. I think it's a rather homely little car but with 325 hp and rear-wheel drive, it is a runnin' SOB. No CVT either, 7 or 8 speed auto, can't recall which.
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Old Yesterday, 10:17   #21
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Kudos on the Infinity.

5 gears is all that is needed for performance and fuel economy.

By the time you add a sixth, or more, you are only working for the man.

A lot of newer cars will give you a constant MPG report. At 70 mph, drive the Infinity in 5th gear, and note the MPG. Then drive it on the same course in 6th gear. Report the difference in MPG values for those two respective gears.

In some cases the results may be shocking. At certain speeds, 6th gear may actually yield LOWER MPG numbers. But, of course the manufacturers have figured out what speed to drive to get the maximum MPG in the highest gear for the purpose of reporting to the man.
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Old Yesterday, 10:22   #22
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For the purpose of keeping this thread on topic, OP you are going to spend the least amount of money on gas and maintenance if you can avoid 4WD or AWD. If you can get by with driving on tires that are really street tires, the tires will cost less money, and probably last longer than offroad tires. But, you probably knew that.

Spend a few more dollars up front to avoid spending a lot more dollars on the backside. But you probably knew that too.

An overpriced, but well-maintained, 15-year-old Outback with manual transmission will probably do you well. The trick will be getting the owner to part with it.
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Old Yesterday, 10:23   #23
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Interesting experiment; I'll try that!
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Old Yesterday, 10:25   #24
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WEG,

Don't you drive a crapbox rusted out Cheby Camaro?

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Old Yesterday, 10:34   #25
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WEG,

Don't you drive a crapbox rusted out Cheby Camaro?

Thorack
You mean the ‘88?

I sold the ‘11 yesterday.

I’m kind of partial to the ‘93 S10 motorized wheelbarrow of late.
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Old Yesterday, 12:03   #26
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Yeah,

I guess its the 88 the one you posted pictures of that was 50% rust under the hood? You know like all Cheby's

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Old Yesterday, 16:15   #27
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I’ve owned multiple XJ Cherokees over the years. Fun and capable unibody 4x4s, and reliable (they all have the same easy to remedy quirks). They are getting harder to find in nice condition.

Gas mileage is far from your expectations though..... they said, it is tough to find anything 4x4 that will get 25+ mpg. Wife’s new KIA Sorento gets 25 mpg on the highway, less in town.

I also had a Forester a few years back until it was stolen. I really enjoyed that car, insanely capable in winter... it was fun to drive. Gas mileage was great for my expectations, roughly 20-22 mpg.
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Old Today, 10:32   #28
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Look for a 40 to 05 liberty, they are good offroad, reliable and get good gas mileage. Pre 04 grand cherokee with the 242 transfer case has solis axles and does great offroad, mpg is 20 to 23 depending on speed.
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Old Today, 11:36   #29
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Yeah,

I guess its the 88 the one you posted pictures of that was 50% rust under the hood? You know like all Cheby's

Thorack
Chevy's are noted for their affinity for rusting. Theories abound that GM has a patented process for making even plastic rust. Legend says that on a quiet night you can hear them rust.

General Motors and Fiat/Chrysler are locked in battle now as to who can have the first pickup bumper to rust away and fall off. Ford ain't much better. It's a shame that we have to pay so much for a new vehicle that will rust so quickly. Even the vaunted Toyota line suffered with rusted frames that caused the truck to break into two pieces.

As of late we suffer schemes like stop/start, 10 speed transmissions, and CVT's to fast shuffle mileage figures to appease the Feds and attract gullible buyers. WEG was spot on with his comments.

Restored classics are looking better all the time. (Woodward dream cruise going on today got me thinking along these lines)
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