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Old June 13, 2018, 09:04   #1
Thorack
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Has SIG gotten too big and lost quality?

Well,

Saw that over on Military Arms Channel they are selling SIG shirts that have Seriously Incompetent Gunmaker.

After seeing and being involved first hand in the M17-M18 MHS testing and seeing the parts issues with the P-365 I know SIG has serious problem with subcontractors.

Have they moved to fast here in the US?

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Old June 13, 2018, 20:30   #2
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Maybe so. They seem to have a lot of fingers in different pies and produce a bazillion variations of guns. Some of their stuff is a hit on the market and they've had some duds too. I guess on one hand they are not afraid to try stuff.
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Old June 13, 2018, 20:38   #3
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I have one of their 556R's (7.62x39)that I would be hard pressed to sell. Boringly accurate out to 350. It's the model with the aluminum quadrails. The only reason I ended up with it is that it is that the Gen I had garnered a horrible reputation for the magwell wearing excessively from the insertion of mags. The Gen II model had the problem corrected (stainless insert) but the model had left a bad taste in folks mouth. Got it for the princely sum of $580 NIB with a factory 4x prism scope. Never have had one failure from it.

Have a 522R (.22LR) had a problem with ejection but they sent a replacement recoil spring assembly and it cured it.

I think they try to rush things into production too quickly to recover their R&D cost and depend on their customers to trouble shoot problems for them.

Last edited by gentlemanjoe; June 13, 2018 at 20:45.
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Old June 13, 2018, 20:53   #4
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Sig moving into polymer pistols like FN. Not impressed Everyone makes an AR too
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Old June 14, 2018, 11:41   #5
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Their MIM parts out of India aren't doing them any favors. Their QA/QC took a shit long ago. SIG is all over the map: some products are brilliant, and some are hit-or-miss. I remember being psyched to get a P226 Legion a couple years ago and immediately quashed that thought after shooting a couple.
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Old June 14, 2018, 16:39   #6
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Well, there really are Two SIGs

One is in Germany, the other in America

The German made products are extremely High Quality
Then you have those manufactured here for the American market

For example if you get a chance look over a 232
German built .380 intended for the European market
They are beautiful quality pistols that will never be imported again thanks to Obama transhipping an assload to Columbia which Germany regards as a conflict zone.

As it stands, all German SIG products are now banned from Export to America, this prohibition includes all parts as well.

SIG America is in no way an equal to SIG Germany
It's more like Taurus versus a true Italian manufactured Beretta
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Old June 14, 2018, 19:51   #7
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Yes
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Old June 14, 2018, 19:51   #8
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I'll buy a Swiss made SIG without hesitation providing I can afford it.
I'll buy a German made SIG IF I can't get it made by the Swiss.

I won't even consider a US made sig.
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Old June 17, 2018, 10:46   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Combloc View Post
I'll buy a Swiss made SIG without hesitation providing I can afford it.
I'll buy a German made SIG IF I can't get it made by the Swiss.

I won't even consider a US made sig.
This sums it up very well.
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Old June 17, 2018, 12:12   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Combloc View Post
I'll buy a Swiss made SIG without hesitation providing I can afford it.
I'll buy a German made SIG IF I can't get it made by the Swiss.

I won't even consider a US made sig.
My sentiments on SIG as well.
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Old June 19, 2018, 09:44   #11
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I'd put my 1988 Sig 220 W. Germany marked Herndon Va imported gun over anything Exeter NH marked. At the LGS where I worked, they took in a bunch of pre owned 226's that were made over the years. The newer they got, the more quality went downhill. The older guns had milled FCG parts. As the guns got newer, the parts went from milled, to cast, to mim. There's no Sig currently made that I would purchase. My only regret was selling the Browning marked 220 I had 15 years ago, but since I had my W. Germany marked 220, I figured I didn't need 2. GARY
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Old June 19, 2018, 16:57   #12
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Same ..They make too much and too fast imop ..Look at the number of "voluntary" recalls etc and issues with the recent run ..The MXC there AR line the 320 and then the 365

I love them but wont touch most of there AR line or the plastic guns ..
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Old June 19, 2018, 20:04   #13
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I have a 2014 vintage Sig 716, can't remember one issue with it.
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Old June 19, 2018, 22:20   #14
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Mine are fine. Have a 320 that is a waste. DA/SA what I like.
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Old June 19, 2018, 23:00   #15
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really three SIGS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riversidesports View Post
Well, there really are Two SIGs

One is in Germany, the other in America

The German made products are extremely High Quality
Then you have those manufactured here for the American market

For example if you get a chance look over a 232
German built .380 intended for the European market
They are beautiful quality pistols that will never be imported again thanks to Obama transhipping an assload to Columbia which Germany regards as a conflict zone.

As it stands, all German SIG products are now banned from Export to America, this prohibition includes all parts as well.

SIG America is in no way an equal to SIG Germany
It's more like Taurus versus a true Italian manufactured Beretta
For those of us who are old enough or still can afford them the Real SIGS are Swiss From the STG57, PE56, AMT, 550 and 551 Et all and all the P210 variants Got um over the years and will die with them going to my son Those are the real SIGS The Pistol line that came out of Germany is almost flawless Having and shooting several 220 and using one as my daily carry i just would not buy a US made sig product My 2 cents FWIW
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Old June 20, 2018, 17:14   #16
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Real Swiss is mmmm mmm good!!




German and Swiss mix like Rum and Coke:



You can't mix oil and water so I don't have any pictures of US and Swiss, If that sounds, elitist, I'm not saying US made sigs are junk, only that there is no comparison between the two. For, example, I had a chance to compare the Swiss made 553 shown above to a US made 551. It was like comparing an HK91 to a century Cetme. The Cetme will work but it just lacks all sophistication. It's much the same with the SIG's. One rattles and shows obvious cost cutting methods because it's built for the commercial market while the other is tight and is obviously built with no thought of cost in mind because it's built for the Swiss military.
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Last edited by Combloc; June 20, 2018 at 17:26.
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Old June 20, 2018, 21:15   #17
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Nice ^^^
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Old June 27, 2018, 14:44   #18
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Guess I am lucky, no issues with my sigs. Still find my favorite is a w. German 229.
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Old June 28, 2018, 08:58   #19
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I can echo Combloc. There is no comparison to the quality of Swiss manufacture. At least none that I've found. That said, I've only ever had one issue where I had to send one of my US produced Sig 556s back. It took a few months to get back (this was during the MCX anc MPX recall). But it came back functioning like a top. All have been very accurate. Even the gen 2 556R. They are all without a doubt my absolute favorite rifles. It's just a shame that the US market never really caught on to the design. And, Sig USA ended production for more AR clones...
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Old July 18, 2018, 05:01   #20
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I have two German Sigs 228 and 226 both are awesome both I have owned since 1991 I have no complaints and I have just recently purchased a Sig 226 elite stainless shoots great the reset is kick ass again no complaints. I wish Sig would at least be able to sell parts they are not firearms but parts or does German law have something to play in parts too?
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Old July 18, 2018, 13:24   #21
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Like any company that makes a lot of products to jump into various niche markets you're going to have jewels and lemons.

My daily carry is a P320c. I have tried limp-wristing it and every other way I can think of to make it jam with basic WWB and even my lightest personal loads, and it just runs. I love that the disassembly is stupid easy with the module coming out making cleaning all the moving parts as simple as possible. I've got an old Winny 37 single-shot shotgun that's more difficult to clean and oil than this thing. I carry it hot or cold, with days of sweat on it, with no signs of oxidation. Only mod was an Apex trigger, which just made for a nice short takeup and reset, compared to the factory, which was decent itself. Is it perfect? No, but it is very good at the job it's carried for and I trust my life to it.
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Old July 21, 2018, 08:20   #22
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Have been buying U.S. made SIG trade-ins and a few new then running 500 to 1,000 rounds through them to figure out what like and dislike. Then call my SIG custom shop rep and explain concerns, desires and requirements. In less than an hour have a shipping label emailed in pdf format, box it and take to FedEx. 10 to 21 days no matter rifle or pistol it returns absolutely slap perfect after their custom shop follows the personal letter include in box explaining scope of work requested to smith.

They say won't do less than four pound trigger on 1911 and have over a half dozen that fall right at 3.25 pounds. Buying used and then applying the savings to custom shop work seems to be working out well for me and have a pile of really nice guns. I swore would never buy a polymer frame pistol till purchased a SIG 2022 and now own six. Stainless slide in stainless rails embedded in polymer frame purchased on a fluke due to price point and love them for utility pistols.
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