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Old December 30, 2017, 12:20   #201
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Am I reading this correctly - that one can self-certify for ISO 9001:2015?

----

Certification to ISO 9001:2015

Checking that the system works is a vital part of ISO 9001:2015. It is recommended that an organization performs internal audits to check how its quality management system is working. An organization may decide to invite an independent certification body to verify that it is in conformity to the standard, but there is no requirement for this. Alternatively, it might invite its clients to audit the quality system for themselves. (iso.org)
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Old December 30, 2017, 14:22   #202
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Ok....here is my question....and this is a combination of the Dsa and Coonan threads....

Mark has shown that both receiver companies have receivers with issues....that is a fact not in doubt....

It’s appears that even tho there are issues, it seems that 90%(?) can be made to run with maybe 10% (?) unsafe and unable to be made to function....this also appears to not be in doubt....

I’m pretty sure that Mark is not the only one getting these receivers so the question is:

Where is tbd59/dr.shock/sledgehammer/Glenn riddle in all of this? Are the other smiths running into the same issues and what are they doing about it?

Not trying to stir the pot but just curious that we aren’t hearing from anyone else on this...
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Old December 30, 2017, 14:50   #203
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Good question.
Glenn still builds guns? Haven't heard that name in a while.
Randy is having health problems and is out of action last I heard.
Matt is so far behind he probably won't touch a current made receiver for at least another year.
tbd59, haven't seen him weigh in on any of this yet but he's probably smart enough to screen his customers receivers so he doesn't have to deal with it.
You are very kind, Sir.

I ceased taking on new work for a while, so have not been privy to much of this.

That said, I recently saw a Coonan custom serial that took 7 months for delivery.

All looks good.......

.....except for a LS hole that measures .289........
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Old December 30, 2017, 14:52   #204
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You are very kind, Sir.

I ceased taking on new work for a while, so have not been privy to much of this.

That said, I recently saw a Coonan custom serial that took 7 months for delivery.

All looks good.......

.....except for a LS hole that measures .289........
And the solution is? Are you sending receivers back to the manufacturer and how has that process been going?
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Old December 30, 2017, 15:03   #205
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And the solution is? Are you sending receivers back to the manufacturer and how has that process been going?
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A hole too small is much easier to fix than a hole that two big. Ream to size.
Not my build, just a potential customer asking for a solution when it was discovered.

We will probably use an 'M' carbide reamer, then abrasive finish to final dimension.

The owner would rather not wait for Coonan to create a solution for what they missed the first time.

............
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Old December 30, 2017, 15:18   #206
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So In other words you are going to make it work....
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Old December 30, 2017, 17:42   #207
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Are both sides of the locking shoulder the same size (shank)?
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Old December 31, 2017, 12:29   #208
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I picked up two of these receivers yesterday. Locking shoulder cannot be pressed into either side of receiver using thumb pressure only.
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Old December 31, 2017, 15:16   #209
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Coming up to the finish line. Waiting on the locking shoulder. So far this thing went together without any problems. Fingers cross the. 259 LS doesn't give me any problems.

Hope I didn't blow my load of excitement too soon on this build.
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Old December 31, 2017, 15:27   #210
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I picked up two of these receivers yesterday. Locking shoulder cannot be pressed into either side of receiver using thumb pressure only.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brad8e View Post
Coming up to the finish line. Waiting on the locking shoulder. So far this thing went together without any problems. Fingers cross the. 259 LS doesn't give me any problems.

Hope I didn't blow my load of excitement too soon on this build.

.
Do you guys mind sharing your serial numbers?
Thanks either way.



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Old December 31, 2017, 15:31   #211
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.
Do you guys mind sharing your serial numbers?
Thanks either way.



.
32163

Barrel torqued to about 130 maybe a hair more using Imbel barrel assembly from GP. Imbel lower locks up tight. Mag catch screw isn't completely flush with the receiver. Waiting on the tap to come in the mail. Magazine well is pretty tight on 2 out of the 4 magazines I own. HK cover fits snug but no rubbing from bolt.

I personally would not buy another over run receiver even if my LS goes in problem free. Seems like it's a gamble.

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Old December 31, 2017, 16:18   #212
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.
Do you guys mind sharing your serial numbers?
Thanks either way.



.
322xx and 322xx

Last edited by msnyder; December 31, 2017 at 16:40.
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Old December 31, 2017, 16:41   #213
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Thanks guys.
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Old December 31, 2017, 20:47   #214
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.
Do you guys mind sharing your serial numbers?
Thanks either way.



.
DSA-31962
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Old January 13, 2018, 03:08   #215
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I'm about to embark on my first experience with one of these DSA 'over-run' receivers. Will be building an Imbel kit on one during Christmas week for a fellow member; will do my best to take photos and document the build. At first glance, the barrel and receiver threads seem to be a bit tight, and I didn't want to force things (I was leaving for work when I briefly handled the kit and receiver). I'm guessing it's excess phosphating in on the receiver threads, but I'll know for sure once I have a couple hours to fine-tooth-comb things...more to come. -Art
Okay, so here's a pre-build report. Turns out the receiver's barrel threads were just gunked up by phosphate build-up, which I was able to overcome by very gingerly wrenching it on while in the barrel and receiver vices (I don't have the tap to chase the threads). All other parameters were pretty well spot-on. The LS hole and dogleg appear to be in-spec; two different, un-bubba'd LS's fit (or, rather, DIDN'T fit) identically to how they did in every Imbel receiver I've built up. No issues there. The charging handle, bolt & carrier, top cover, EB group, hinge/joint pin, and lower (with standard OEM lug) all fit like a glove. A fully functioning Steyr proofed StG magazine locked in place with no real resistance, and the feed lips appear to flush-up with the receiver rails, so I would surmise it will feed like a champ. I did have to chase the gas tube nut threads, but that was also phosphate build-up...didn't take much effort. The kit being used is one Mark's Imbel kits (belongs to a fellow member who shall remain nameless until he chooses not to), who asked me to assemble into a fully functional riFAL. Lastly, the Imbel barrel did hand-time to about 9:45, so I do have to shave 0.007" from the shoulder (hence my MP request to borrow a Wadman), but fortunately will not bottom out on the breech face once that is done...have had that same issue with an Imbel barrel on an Imbel GL receiver, still unable to figure that one out. Anywho, will report further once I can reduce the shoulder and index the barrel...
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Old January 13, 2018, 11:47   #216
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https://photos.app.goo.gl/umyYVPxLLbD6If6P2

I guess what I meant was it hand-times to where the hour-hand on the clock is pointing when it's 9:45. It also hand tightens to just about the same spot on an unused Imbel GL receiver. I have no other FAL barrels on-hand to try, though. I, too, would prefer to modify the receiver face, rather than the barrel, but I don't have access to the tooling required...
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Old January 13, 2018, 22:04   #217
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That is awesome!

I wish somebody with kits just bought up a whole bunch of these and built them for sale.
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Old January 13, 2018, 22:14   #218
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Am I reading this correctly - that one can self-certify for ISO 9001:2015?
The ISO creates the standards, but is not a certificate authority.

The ISO accredits independent Registrars, who assess compliance and grant certificates.
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Old January 13, 2018, 22:17   #219
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Thats way under thats for sure.
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Old January 14, 2018, 11:28   #220
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Wanted to update you guys on my contract over-run build. The .259 locking shoulder arrived from DSA. At first it seemed like that it wasn't possible for the locking shoulder to fit. It was way to snug. Froze the locking shoulder, applied a bit of lubricant and used a large vice. Took a bit or torque to start it through, slow and steady and a small cheater bar and it went in fine. Nicked the receiver a tad along the way but oh well, I got over it.
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Old January 14, 2018, 11:37   #221
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Wanted to update you guys on my contract over-run build. The .259 locking shoulder arrived from DSA. At first it seemed like that it wasn't possible for the locking shoulder to fit. It was way to snug. Froze the locking shoulder, applied a bit of lubricant and used a large vice. Took a bit or torque to start it through, slow and steady and a small cheater bar and it went in fine. Nicked the receiver a tad along the way but oh well, I got over it.

(((Cringing!)))
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Old January 14, 2018, 13:48   #222
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(((Cringing!)))
I didn't want to have to use a vise. Punch wasn't doing it. I cleaned the area up and removed some heavy parkerizing. Once it went through the first hole it went in which minimal resistance. Didn't notice the marring from the vise on the charging handle slide until the end , doesn't interfere with function. Checked headspace once more time, it passed go/no go.

Going to get out to the range next week to work out the bugs.

Just frustrating that the whole build went together very smoothly up until the damn installation of the locking shoulder.
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Old January 15, 2018, 08:01   #223
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I didn't want to have to use a vise. Punch wasn't doing it. I cleaned the area up and removed some heavy parkerizing. Once it went through the first hole it went in which minimal resistance. Didn't notice the marring from the vise on the charging handle slide until the end , doesn't interfere with function. Checked headspace once more time, it passed go/no go.

Going to get out to the range next week to work out the bugs.

Just frustrating that the whole build went together very smoothly up until the damn installation of the locking shoulder.
Did it ever occur to you that if you needed to
FREEZE IT, LUBE IT, use a LARGE VISE, and a CHEATER BAR, with QUITE A BIT OF TORQUE, that something just might be wrong? And therefore maybe you should stop?

No. Apparently not. It sounds like you forced that shoulder in - lets hope it's the right size.
It's your stuff, and I have no interest other than a general one to the community. But I frequently see the results of uneducated enthusiasm. And the expense of not stopping and seeking guidance.
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Old January 15, 2018, 08:12   #224
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My update:

DSA issued an RMA and sent a prepaid UPS tag for my defective receiver. It went back about two weeks ago so their "master" gunsmith could inspect it. I have not heard anything back yet.

The receiver never transferred to me--I discovered the LS issue during an inspection at my FFL, so DSA is working with that FFL directly on the return and hopefully swap.
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Old January 15, 2018, 14:31   #225
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Why on earth will they not test the basic on these reciever before selling them ? good grief/
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Old January 15, 2018, 14:45   #226
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Why on earth will they not test the basic on these reciever before selling them ? good grief/
Because "It's the Chicago way!"
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Old January 15, 2018, 20:39   #227
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Did it ever occur to you that if you needed to
FREEZE IT, LUBE IT, use a LARGE VISE, and a CHEATER BAR, with QUITE A BIT OF TORQUE, that something just might be wrong? And therefore maybe you should stop?

No. Apparently not. It sounds like you forced that shoulder in - lets hope it's the right size.
It's your stuff, and I have no interest other than a general one to the community. But I frequently see the results of uneducated enthusiasm. And the expense of not stopping and seeking guidance.
I may not have been too clear, I never said quite a bit. I should have said a little bit. The cheater bar was used to get through the left side of the receiver its only a 10 inch pipe I used it to push the locking shoulder in slowly. At no point did I go at it like an Ape. Before I used the vise I researched how others have done it on this website. I know ideally one would use a punch and mallet but it just wasn't happening.

Believe me, if I had to put a lot muscle behind it I would have stopped and sent it back to DSA or a gunsmith such as yourself.

I'm confident that a majority of the resistance initially was parkerizing, no way possible I put enough force on the vise to alter the shape of the hole or locking shoulder piece.

I'll edit my last post to mention that I'm not a professional gunsmith and don't do what I did so you don't think I'm giving out bad advice to others if that makes you feel any better Mark.

Its my face and fingers on the line.
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Old January 22, 2018, 22:37   #228
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1/22/2018 update-

Received an email from DSA today. They have determined my receiver is non repairable, however they have already "sold out" of the Mexican over run receivers. However they had an unmachined batch which they finished up and are now at "heat treating." Should have my replacement "in a few weeks."
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Old January 23, 2018, 06:47   #229
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I know ideally one would use a punch and mallet but it just wasn't happening.
Not sure if "Ideally" is the right word. While it works for many, did my first that way, I have a small Dake arbor press set up just for installing and removing LS's. I try never to beat on thing unless as a last resort. I like how the press lets you "feel" it working...if thats the right word. It never mars the receiver either. Gives a bit of control the mallet method can't. It works very well and was inexpensive. I have also used it on various bearing and such for vehicles....well worth the investment.
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Old January 23, 2018, 12:08   #230
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...they have already "sold out" of the Mexican over run receivers... Should have my replacement "in a few weeks."
So I wonder what they will send you.
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Old January 23, 2018, 19:44   #231
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I too received a RA number and return shipping label and I return shipped it last week. Today I received confirmation that the receiver was delivered to DSA. The confirmation came from UPS not DSA. I will be interested to see what they have to say about my receiver.

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Old January 25, 2018, 16:23   #232
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The DSA site shows these back in stock now. Did they get you guys taken care of that had sent receivers back?


I don't know why but I am oddly tempted by these receivers for some reason and I need another FAL receiver about as much as I need a 3 pound sledgehammer to the nutz.
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Old January 25, 2018, 16:33   #233
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Gee, wonder if those are the returns from us, or maybe even Mexico? Wouldn't surprise me in the least. I suppose they may've just done another run of them, but I really doubt that.

Come to think of it, why on earth would dsa do another run of these, with the same Mexican markings, if the first batch was a contract over-run? Especially when the last batch had so many issues? Seems it'd be more logical to do a run without the markings, so as to have a chance of selling them to anyone, rather than those who'll "accept" the Mexican markings?
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Old January 25, 2018, 16:57   #234
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Holy crap! I just now went back and read this thread from the beginning and it cured me of wanting a Mexico marked DSA receiver!


I really feel for you guys that got the oversized LS paperweights and I hope DSA takes care of you.
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Old January 25, 2018, 22:31   #235
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The DSA site shows these back in stock now. Did they get you guys taken care of that had sent receivers back?

...


That is very odd that they went out of stock and then are back in again. Now I would really like to believe they just pulled all of them to do some QC work when the complaints started, culled the bad ones, and started reselling them again, but that would be almost to good to be true.......
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Old January 26, 2018, 09:36   #236
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I sent my defective receiver back to DSA in late December. I asked for it to be replaced with a non-Mexican receiver and authorized an up-charge to the full price of a regular one. I did not hear anything from them, so I inquired on Monday. I was told the defective receiver had been "checked in and inspected" and my replacement was "being processed and would ship in a few days." I think a month is pretty slow to up-charge me and send me a new one. I still have not received a shipment notice. I hope they get the replacement out the door soon.
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Old January 26, 2018, 12:25   #237
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1/22/2018 update-

Received an email from DSA today. They have determined my receiver is non repairable, however they have already "sold out" of the Mexican over run receivers. However they had an unmachined batch which they finished up and are now at "heat treating." Should have my replacement "in a few weeks."

Still show it in stock on DSA site.

Mark
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Old February 01, 2018, 10:41   #238
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I ordered one two weeks ago. Haven't got it yet. Sent them a message and yesterday they replied they are finishing this batch right now and they are at heat treat. How can they be over runs if they are still making them? Probably just rejects from the start.
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Old February 01, 2018, 11:58   #239
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I ordered one two weeks ago. Haven't got it yet. Sent them a message and yesterday they replied they are finishing this batch right now and they are at heat treat. How can they be over runs if they are still making them? Probably just rejects from the start.

Does seem a bit odd that they would still be making an overrun product. Please update us when you receive yours.
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Old February 01, 2018, 12:34   #240
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First of all, from vast experience, never take DSA website's in stock/out of stock inventory as an accuracy measure.

What was once possibly overstock, has now become a marketing scheme.
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Old February 01, 2018, 15:39   #241
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What was once possibly overstock, has now become a marketing scheme.
Nailed it...
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Old February 01, 2018, 15:56   #242
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...............

What was once possibly overstock, has now become a marketing scheme.
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Old February 01, 2018, 23:32   #243
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Got a tracking number today from DSA for my replacement Mexico receiver. The anticipation is killing me.
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Old February 02, 2018, 00:20   #244
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Hope we get something good. Maybe this batch isn't rejects?
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Old February 02, 2018, 00:27   #245
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Hope we get something good. Maybe this batch isn't rejects?


What colors the sky in your world Skippy,,,Really??

You don't get it do you???

They're ALL fugging rejects!
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Old February 02, 2018, 00:41   #246
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What colors the sky in your world Skippy,,,Really??

You don't get it do you???

They're ALL fugging rejects!

LMAO, I hate to think this but it does appear they are now in the business of marketing and producing more of their mistakes............ Like they say, When in Rome...
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Old February 02, 2018, 00:46   #247
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LMAO, I hate to think this but it does appear they are now in the business of marketing and producing more of their mistakes............ Like they say, When in Chicago...
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Old February 02, 2018, 18:57   #248
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Holy crap! I just now went back and read this thread from the beginning and it cured me of wanting a Mexico marked DSA receiver!
I almost insta-purchased one of these, and came here to get the consensus first... damn that was a smart decision!

Knowing the DSA-way, I inquired via email if they could build me up a Voyager using one of these receivers (knowing that they wouldn't screw themselves with an un-buildable receiver).

I told the rep I had owned a DSA MCR carbine that flat out sucked ($1700), a Para kit that was total garbage, and a truly fantastic 16" Voyager Carbine ($1K).

He told me he could only build one of their standard models on the Mexico receiver at $100 off MSRP, and the only rifle in their catalog with a fixed BOM was the Voyager series- because they always had to be built on a Type III.

I was like, Ummmm... thanks, my Voyager is built on a Type I... HA!!!
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Old February 03, 2018, 18:31   #249
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https://photos.app.goo.gl/umyYVPxLLbD6If6P2

I guess what I meant was it hand-times to where the hour-hand on the clock is pointing when it's 9:45. It also hand tightens to just about the same spot on an unused Imbel GL receiver. I have no other FAL barrels on-hand to try, though. I, too, would prefer to modify the receiver face, rather than the barrel, but I don't have access to the tooling required...
Update to my last update:
So I got the barrel timed (turns out the gas block was not in-line with the flats, so the receiver was not to blame for under-timing). It indexed and installed perfectly, both at the shoulder and the breech-face. Literally ALL dimensions were spot on, from the charging handle slide, EB group, carrier raceway, mag well...everything went together like butter and function checked perfectly. Seriously. No bullshit. I did have to chase the excess phosphate from the gas tube nut threads, but that was a quick fix. Checked headspace, .257 LS needed, owner had included a few with the kit when he sent it to me and one of them was 'it'. I thought I had the best luck in the world for this build. Lil bit o' FrogLube on the LS to smooth install and set to task...went in with what felt like the perfect amount of interference...UNTIL(!) the last 1/4". The LEFT side of the locking shoulder hole was misaligned by 3/32". That was the ONLY issue...I was so close to being able to assemble and test fire. As has been stated, DSA is pretty spot on with the customer service, so we'll see if this ends up with a replacement, or what they decide to do. More to come...
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Old February 07, 2018, 19:34   #250
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Replacement receiver has arrived. Alleged to be from the "new batch. SN is DSA32235.

Locking shoulder will not push in with thumb like last side--both sides are good. LS dogleg pocket needs a clean up as I have come to expect from DSA recently vets of late. Don't have a barrel to twist on at the moment.

Got a note in the box stating "The dimension for the LS hole in inches is .2961 inches +/- 0.0006 tenths. So the blueprint range is .2955 to .2967 max hole diameter. We finishe team this hole to .2960. This dimension is selected due to movement or shrinkage during heat treatment. We use a precision ground reamer of .2960 due to this. This is a pin gauge size .2967".

DSA also included three locking shoulders--have not had a chance to mic them. The free LS takes the sting away a bit, and was a nice gesture.
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