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Old July 20, 2018, 10:35   #1
medicmike
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Underwhelming compliance in CA for registration

Estimated compliance to the new registration scheme in CA is somewhere around 3%.


From the article

"California has pushed and pushed and pushed against gun owners, treating them all as criminals, and California gun owners have taken it. They’ve fought, sure, but they’ve generally resigned themselves to following the law, and how does the state show its appreciation for that? They start demanding more.

Well, for some it’s enough. They’re done. If they’re going to be treated like criminals, they might as well get some of the benefits of the title, like not having the state know everything about what they own. I can’t say that I blame them."

https://bearingarms.com/tom-k/2018/0...istration-law/
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Old July 20, 2018, 18:34   #2
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I read something about Massachusetts and Connecticut having massive non compliance as well. IIRC it was way below 30%. One of those states was going to go punitive on those scofflaws until they found that their enforcers/police were equally non compliant. Now their scratchin their heads trying to figure what to do.
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Old July 20, 2018, 19:58   #3
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I read something about Massachusetts and Connecticut having massive non compliance as well. IIRC it was way below 30%. One of those states was going to go punitive on those scofflaws until they found that their enforcers/police were equally non compliant. Now their scratchin their heads trying to figure what to do.
Even Canada gave up trying to register long guns

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielf.../#1cf9f0aa5a1b
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Old July 20, 2018, 21:37   #4
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So what
All non-compliance make you is a criminal. Sooner or later you'll get found out, all guns get confiscated and you'll never be allowed to own another firearm. That is, after you get out of prison.

What if you say they can't put everybody in prison. So what, your guns will get confiscated, you'll never be allowed to own another firearm and you'll have to pay a big fine.

Laws are what matter, the state will get around to enforcement later.
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Old July 20, 2018, 22:53   #5
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Originally Posted by CG&L View Post
So what
All non-compliance make you is a criminal. Sooner or later you'll get found out, all guns get confiscated and you'll never be allowed to own another firearm. That is, after you get out of prison.

What if you say they can't put everybody in prison. So what, your guns will get confiscated, you'll never be allowed to own another firearm and you'll have to pay a big fine.

Laws are what matter, the state will get around to enforcement later.
About sums it up...

It's all about control. 'They' make up all sorts of laws that people don't follow, guaranteeing that everyone is breaking the law.

Then, they selectively enforce them on you when you speak out against 'they'...

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Old July 21, 2018, 11:19   #6
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Originally Posted by CG&L View Post
So what
All non-compliance make you is a criminal. Sooner or later you'll get found out, all guns get confiscated and you'll never be allowed to own another firearm. That is, after you get out of prison.

What if you say they can't put everybody in prison. So what, your guns will get confiscated, you'll never be allowed to own another firearm and you'll have to pay a big fine.

Laws are what matter, the state will get around to enforcement later.
dunno' there are likely over a million Americans who can't own a gun but somehow do CG&L
Even more who own things in jurisdictions they can't
Chicago is packed full of unregistered handguns, just a mess of them sitting in oldsters closets and desks

Still can't lawfully smoke weed in most States
millions do though

Mike brought up Canada
understand that was a pilot project that was initially financed with American Tax dollars by the Clintons. We literally paid for this grand mass of Cray super computers in this test run by the Progressive Left.
Idea was to show America that it could be done
When GW got in office the $$$s stopped flowing to prop that experiment up, eventually even the anti gunners agreed it was a complete money pit and eliminated most of the nonsense.

and that's Canada, a nation that is actually extremely law abiding
America ?
gimme a break.

Years ago it was damn near impossible to get a license to carry in my State
I still carried but only extremely high end sidearms
see how it worked if you were pinched with some saturday night special you went to jail. Now if you were packing a Colt Gold Cup with class A or B engraving and Ivory scales ?
well unless you had a warrant or were a bad guy Mr. Policeman would just take it wagging his finger at you. Happened to me a couple times
If they charged you they couldn't keep the gun
same was true of machineguns
over the years have known a few guys who were pinched shooting dad or grandads unregistered war trophy, know what ?
not a one went to jail over that rather serious "crime"
why ?
again, they charged it out likely the Feds would come take not just the case but the new toy as well

These schemes will never go over well in our nation, they never have.
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Old July 21, 2018, 13:33   #7
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1) The only thing we can do is comply? GIVE ME A F'ING BREAK!
WTF do you think caused the Battle of Lexington (Revolutionary War)? The British soldiers were enroute to confiscate weapons!!!

2) Can never own another gun? LOL!
Felons own guns! AND they don't bother with registration, either!

3) The 2nd Amendment is the ONLY way we can force the government to honor the Constitution.

4) Don't stand up. Turn your guns in. Then cry about the "good old days, when you were a free man! Ask the English, Australians, Californians,etc. how well that works
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Old July 21, 2018, 13:48   #8
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What you guys say is certainly true...

But that doesn't change the truth of CG&L's post...

Be pissed off at the 'right' people.

Just sayin'...

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Old July 21, 2018, 14:26   #9
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Riverside
Lots of prohibited persons have firearms. OK, that's just ups the fines and jail time when they're caught. I don't get what your point is

sniperdoc
I don't have any idea what no idea what your argument is.

There will be California type laws everywhere soon. No ambulance personal allowed in a house or apartment until all guns are secured by law enforcement. What if a previous resident was a gun owner? Computer records are updated to reflect such? Not to my knowledge has this ever been done.
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Old July 21, 2018, 14:44   #10
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Originally Posted by CG&L View Post
Riverside
Lots of prohibited persons have firearms. OK, that's just ups the fines and jail time when they're caught. I don't get what your point is

sniperdoc
I don't have any idea what no idea what your argument is.

There will be California type laws everywhere soon. No ambulance personal allowed in a house or apartment until all guns are secured by law enforcement. What if a previous resident was a gun owner? Computer records are updated to reflect such? Not to my knowledge has this ever been done.
If you read all posts previous to mine, you will understand.
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Old July 21, 2018, 16:02   #11
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What you guys say is certainly true...

But that doesn't change the truth of CG&L's post...

Be pissed off at the 'right' people.

Just sayin'...

Forrest
Not pissed at all but this notion the government has shock collars round' folks necks to prevent them from doing things is kinda silly
Heck in some places the cops openly refuse to disarm former bad guys

I mean seriously, do you really want to take guns away from someone in the wild country of Alaska ?
I mean someone raised there with a family...

Outside subsistance hunting you have predators...Brown Bear, Wolves, what not.
Been a number of very unsuccessful prosecutions on gun violations in that State due to this. Juries usually refuse to convict, a few folks have even gotten off on unregistered machineguns in that State
but again, everything is situational.

I do understand CG&Ls stance. He's obviously a very law abiding sort of guy & props to him on that. Thing is that's really not representiaive of greater America.

time for one of my typical sidebars:

Think in terms of vehicle regulations...
back in the 70s and 80s probably a third of folks buying new ones immediately de smogged them
Knew a few guys who bought rubber bumpered MGBs and immediately swapped on the lighter chrome ones and lowered ride height
same with disabling air bags today
not one bit of this was lawful but millions did it

The situation in California stinks but you can only force folks into respective corners so many times before they just say Fukk this stupidity. At that point Code & regulation turn meaningless. California has reached that point. Folks just don't care what Sacremento does

Does it take a degree of bravery to resist ?
damn straight it does

think about this a bit
machineguns have required registration since 1935 yet every damn year more climb out of the woodwork either as seizures, turn ins or parts kits, not many years ago I saw cut a 1921AC Colt Thompson. One family gun, was bought in the 20s by the great grandfather through his local hardware store. Damn' shame it was however there was no other lawful alternative. Family still made well over 10K. It was sold to an SOT who welded it back up as a postie.

H&R Handy Gun actions regularly surface at action
those too were regulated in 1935
they even turn up cash and carry still at gunshows along with Stevens Autoshot .410 pistols
still scads of this crap in circulation after 80 odd years

now add to that NFA parts kits
I have been in that business since the late 70s
nobody built semi clones until very recently
nope most of the STEN kits that were built have been unregistered NFA
same with other tube based guns.
think, the only difference between a M16 or a milspec AK and a civilian semi model is one hole and some parts. That's reality my friend and there are thousands of home built unregistered MGs in this nation

and some still think registration is a viable scheme ?
incredible

As far as the good guys with guns always finding the bad guys with guns
gimme a break already
again there is already metric tons of unregistered NFA, some has been with famlies since the Great War or earlier.
Ran into one Colt 1895 Potato Digger in 6mm USN, a Marine Corps beltfed from the 1st contract. Completely unregistered. Saved that one, set up a donation to a military museum, that was in 1999. Those things are nearly unknown.

Thing is some fine folks live on Fantasy Island just how much of this crap is still in circulation. I have seen Lewis and Maxim "dummy guns" at farm auctions. Old pre 68' dewats sold cash and carry

Again, I am hardly pissed at anyone who desires to remain extra legal
I will debate many of their blanket assertions that are very easily factually disproven.

pay attention, I am mostly using the 1935 National Firearms Act to show how deeply flawed the group think really is on registration
Up here you can almost count on 1 out of 2 homes being armed
generally a .22 rifle, a shotgun and a deer rifle
handguns used to be rare, these days I see them at local yard sales
Gun crime is almost unheard of, no home invasions, etc
good chance playing that Rolette someone will shoot you dead in the head sooner rather than later.

Some twin cities idjits have tried to run registration in this State, not even most Democrats will support it and fewer yet here would comply

I have managed to sit wacko leftys down and after explaining all this, they were like "Well What Can We Do ?"
sadly and very seriously Not Very Much

1st Registration is really just a make work project. It does not stop crime PERIOD. It's all after the fact of bad shit happening with a registered piece.

2nd Background checks really don't do shit all either. It's a feel good pile of steaming feces and again a huge make work project were it to be implimented on a national scale on all transfers...cost would be billions
Every weekend you have multiple shows in most States, think in terms of the number of folks you need on hand over Saturday and Sunday to process checks nationally

How about a Federal Gun License then ?
I'm a slight bit in favor so long as it's not a mandate and expands the basic C&R license to everything.

Thing is if I desire I can photoshop up a bogus FFL and print it out in maybe twenty minutes
so now what ?
did exactly that in front of several Progressives a few years ago, they about shit

Then make it a card damn you they say...
I can if wanted create cards, holograms, yada yada
they won't pass getting called in but they would as basic ID

back in the 90s a couple of very young teen hackers did exactly this
they found an 01 FFL template on line, created an FFL sending it in to SOG and AIM among others then using a hacked CC# started ordering a pile of guns & ammo. Sticks in my mind they were 13 and 15 years old.
How did they get busted ?
UPS delivery man was concerned over all the gun packages being delivered to low income apartments. Seem to recall those boys had over 30 new guns stacked up in their "fort"

Another example was the huge HK Virgina theft
Truck rolls up, presents military documentation for a delivery to Fort Bragg
Warehouse unloads 100s of MGs, Grenade launchers, etc
took nearly a year for the bill to hit DoD and filter down to Bragg
well guess what, they never ordered them
old DIA chum still snickers about when the Navy got the bill for two semi loads of Sidewinders they never ordered
G-d knows where they ended up.
Same deal military lookin' trucks, proper orders

No talkin' to the Beltway Right or the Left though really
both seem hell bent on a totalarian State.
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Old July 21, 2018, 16:03   #12
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I read 'em
Not really much to any of them. Canada gave up on it but do you think the US will? It's foolish to think California or the NorthEast will. Why would they?

Does anyone think Gov Moonbeam, Schumer, Bloomberg or anyones else will just throw up their hands and quit?

I read the post, they just don't make any sense.
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Old July 21, 2018, 16:33   #13
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I read 'em
Not really much to any of them. Canada gave up on it but do you think the US will? It's foolish to think California or the NorthEast will. Why would they?

Does anyone think Gov Moonbeam, Schumer, Bloomberg or anyones else will just throw up their hands and quit?

I read the post, they just don't make any sense.

Like I posted, IF it comes down to it, we have choices besides blind compliance.
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Old July 21, 2018, 17:07   #14
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Like I posted, IF it comes down to it, we have choices besides blind compliance.
True, but best not to make violating the law known to all, eh...

Forrest
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Old July 21, 2018, 18:06   #15
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It has already 'come down to it' and people chose to hide. You can call it non-compliance but it's only hiding.

All these people are magically going to come out of hiding at sometime in the future and fight the government?
What will be the triggering event? When they've 'had enough'?

Funny stuff
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Old July 21, 2018, 18:32   #16
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Well, some did in 1775, and others did in 1861 !
Almost happened in the 1960s.
So yes, when people "have enough".
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Old July 21, 2018, 18:36   #17
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Riverside
Lots of prohibited persons have firearms. OK, that's just ups the fines and jail time when they're caught. I don't get what your point is

sniperdoc
I don't have any idea what no idea what your argument is.

There will be California type laws everywhere soon. No ambulance personal allowed in a house or apartment until all guns are secured by law enforcement. What if a previous resident was a gun owner? Computer records are updated to reflect such? Not to my knowledge has this ever been done.
Sorry my brother, you really have not a solitary clue

Here's how it works in the aftermath of public attention:

The Gun Violations are often pled away if the dirtbag has a makable dope case.

Typically even in gun violations perps usually negotiate a 5K1 departure from sentencing guidelines, they do fractional if any time CG
again, it's situational

Case in point was one of Subguns favorite children
Tripp Whitlowe
that clown promoted himself as a SOT
nope, no license
Guys from all over were sending him their registered treasures up past the 90s, heck ole tripp was a recognized regular at KCR
everything he brought were unregistered home builds

anyways a crew of East St Louis Negros break into his rented storage locker, make off with dozens of MGs !
Negros get pinched, it all goes back to Whitlowe
Great dude, not a dirtbag but a straight resistor.
anyways he did a few years inside over it.

Know another character
busted with suppressors, MGs, 40mm Grenade launchers and other crap. Dude had multiple felonies, Ended Up 5 Years

Here's something to think on friend
years ago a russian dissident commented that it's only when the State takes everything away that you truly become FREE
that once the State wipes your rights away that, well, it really does not matter anymore.

RKBA is held roughly similar across America primarily among the male gender. We are bringing more ladies in but us Men need to work harder to welcome both gals and other cultures into the gun thing.
anyways I don't see nationwide idiocy in the near future, another twenty years maybe...quite possbly

Look all of you
been in the biz since the 70s
America is currently at it's post pro RKBA stance since the early 60s
as always we have prophets of doom and gloom

America is changing a bit in different directions but some are inter mixed and shared.
Weed legalization is one, shit like CCW is another
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Old July 21, 2018, 20:49   #18
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You can call it non-compliance but it's only hiding.
Exactly. Hiding is just that. So one hides one's firearms for some years until one dies or goes to the nursing home. And then one's progeny turns in the hidden cache or deep sixes it in a river.

How F'N heroic. No one is resisting openly. There will be no second Lexington and Concord (Hell, Massachusetts has already capitulated, the 2nd is dead there). They are going after the 2nd state-by-state: NY,NJ, CT, CO, etc.,etc., ad nauseam. There is no uprising. Celebrating "non-compliance" is purporting to have a victory that is in reality a complete defeat.

So.....they take away a right that has heretofore been recognized by the Bill of Rights for over 200 years and some can say: "We are non-compliant! We win!"?

Horseshit! You lost! We lost!

We have to beat them in the courts and re-affirm the guarantees of the Second before all states capitulate and it is too late.

Win in the courts or give up the Second. Those are the choices. Claims of an uprising after the Second has been gutted and laid to rest are just worthless internet posturing.
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Old July 21, 2018, 21:30   #19
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Exactly. Hiding is just that. So one hides one's firearms for some years until one dies or goes to the nursing home. And then one's progeny turns in the hidden cache or deep sixes it in a river.

How F'N heroic. No one is resisting openly. There will be no second Lexington and Concord (Hell, Massachusetts has already capitulated, the 2nd is dead there). They are going after the 2nd state-by-state: NY,NJ, CT, CO, etc.,etc., ad nauseam. There is no uprising. Celebrating "non-compliance" is purporting to have a victory that is in reality a complete defeat.

So.....they take away a right that has heretofore been recognized by the Bill of Rights for over 200 years and some can say: "We are non-compliant! We win!"?

Horseshit! You lost! We lost!

We have to beat them in the courts and re-affirm the guarantees of the Second before all states capitulate and it is too late.

Win in the courts or give up the Second. Those are the choices. Claims of an uprising after the Second has been gutted and laid to rest are just worthless internet posturing.
About sums it up...

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Old July 21, 2018, 23:18   #20
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Exactly. Hiding is just that. So one hides one's firearms for some years until one dies or goes to the nursing home. And then one's progeny turns in the hidden cache or deep sixes it in a river.

How F'N heroic. No one is resisting openly. There will be no second Lexington and Concord (Hell, Massachusetts has already capitulated, the 2nd is dead there). They are going after the 2nd state-by-state: NY,NJ, CT, CO, etc.,etc., ad nauseam. There is no uprising. Celebrating "non-compliance" is purporting to have a victory that is in reality a complete defeat.

So.....they take away a right that has heretofore been recognized by the Bill of Rights for over 200 years and some can say: "We are non-compliant! We win!"?

Horseshit! You lost! We lost!

We have to beat them in the courts and re-affirm the guarantees of the Second before all states capitulate and it is too late.

Win in the courts or give up the Second. Those are the choices. Claims of an uprising after the Second has been gutted and laid to rest are just worthless internet posturing.
LOL...will be no uprising...

most just wouldn't comply
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Old July 22, 2018, 00:07   #21
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No to all registration and sure as hell, no voluntary turn in of firearms.

Registration of firearms is only for one purpose, to come back later and confiscate them.

Anyone that goes along with registration of their firearms, just go jump into the cattle cars and be done with it.

If or when they come for you and your firearms, hold to the Constitution, stand and fight.

The reason the founders made sure your G-D given right to own firearms was written down in the Constitution/Bill of Rights, was to prevent this type shit, not to shoot beer bottles, go hunting, target shoot.

Is there really anyone here, going to allow the likes of maxine watters, schemer, bernie, fienstien, and the rest of these nut cases to pass any law, that you are going to follow, that takes away your G-D granted right to firearms???
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Old July 22, 2018, 00:38   #22
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It's about marginalization...it's generarational....it's feel good for the progs.

They drive it underground...guns are gone in a couple generations.

Make them difficult to own? It make anything that goes bang like a full auto weapon....if you have the bucks...you can have one.....if you are a peasant you are boned....I used to be a C-III, have owned some toys that rattle....no frigging way I could afford one now. THAT is what they want with ALL firearms.

Make 'em illegal they become like stolen art....you might be able to own it...but you can't take it out in public...you better be damned careful who you show it to.

This is the goal of these mothef#cking anti gun pieces of sh*t....these $hits don't like my kind....I don't like theirs.....
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Old July 22, 2018, 00:40   #23
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Is there really anyone here, going to allow the likes of maxine watters, schemer, bernie, fienstien, and the rest of these nut cases to pass any law, that you are going to follow, that takes away your G-D granted right to firearms???
I have my line in the sand...as I am sure you do yours.
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Old July 22, 2018, 00:45   #24
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Dont live there so I really dont know, but what I read was 65,000 were registered. I also read that the process was difficult requiring photo's and so on that not all could provide? I wonder what you are supposed to do if you dont own a computer?

The Cali mag ban fell so folks might be thinking this will fall too? Whatever happened with that farmer that had a short barreled action with a suppressor on it? Is he up to his eye balls in trouble? It may cost him his farm to fight that to the Supreme Ct.
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Old July 22, 2018, 01:19   #25
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Originally Posted by medicmike View Post
I have my line in the sand...as I am sure you do yours.
Yep, simple non compliance, actually I will ignore them, if they are ever successful, until such time as they lay hands on me or my property.

I, and most everyone here, stop at stop signs, not because there is a LEO behind hiding them or because its a law, but because it makes good sense too.

The "king" cannot make us peasants do a damn thing we don't wish to do.
We have the kings men outnumbered what, 10,000 to one?

I like those odds.
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Old July 22, 2018, 13:05   #26
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Like Bob Dylan sang, you don't have to be a weatherman to know which way the wind blows. As long as the rulers want the public disarmed there will continue to be creep with more and more draconian gun laws to make ownership more arduous and a threat of sever punishment for possession of certain types of firearms. Latest I heard was the involvement of insurance companies in denying coverage for dealing in or possessing firearms. Before that it was the bankers. Hell, we are all just criminals to the elites, anyway. So many laws now I bet most of us break one or more on a daily basis whether we know it or not, including felonies! Throughout human history is there any evidence to show compliance to a totalitarian state has ever been to the citizen's benefit? No!

All of us will soon have some decisions to make, all of which could have dire consequences. It will be up to each of us to determine which is more dire.
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Old July 22, 2018, 14:59   #27
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You're exactly right

And it's just not insurance. In California, ambulance guys can't go into a residence unless firearms are secured by the police. Right now it's NFA items but it'll be everything soon. Right now there's now system to take NFA owners out of the computer base. New residents are screwed if thy need an ambulance.

Yep, with new resident, that means there are no firearms to secure. Doesn't matter, the police won't let in medics until everything is sorted out. It has happened.
I think something similar happened to a member here on the files quite recently.
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Old July 22, 2018, 15:15   #28
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Elephants and small chains!
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Old July 22, 2018, 15:41   #29
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saw an article ??? that the Calif registration system was to be done ONLY on
line, that it was overwhelmed and failed. And that peoples vital information
even S/N's were being displayed to wrong / other people on line!

Not surprised of non compliance . . . they have to provide an avenue to
compliance . . . first ? ? ?
or was the system failure a plan, to start confiscation based on NON-compliance??
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Old July 22, 2018, 15:48   #30
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Time for a new revolution ...
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Old July 22, 2018, 16:18   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Blade View Post
Time for a new revolution ...
You say you want a revolution...

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Old July 22, 2018, 17:50   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Blade View Post
Time for a new revolution ...
Not until the elephant learns the chain around its ankle is BS!
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Old July 23, 2018, 01:28   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medicmike View Post
Even Canada gave up trying to register long guns

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielf.../#1cf9f0aa5a1b


When was it they passed their new gun laws - Oh, yeah 1995

vs American rates



Let's see we had the "Assualt Weapons Ban" from 1994 to 2004 - hmmm
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Last edited by Artful; July 23, 2018 at 01:33. Reason: added American for comparison
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