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Old February 12, 2018, 13:04   #151
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Soft plates will likely be NIJ 3a which won't stop much of the modern handgun ammo people carry now. Hard plates or semi-rigid are much higher threat rated in general. It's what your goal is. I mix soft armor with rigid plates as feel the need. If on a budget it's best to save your money and be sure you buy armor you want first try rather than buy something you can't tolerate and have to try again. Most of my customers come to me after buying a set of steel plates.
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Old February 13, 2018, 14:08   #152
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In fourth day of checking all batteries in radios, flashlights and other small devices. So far have topped off eleven handi-talkies and now working on refresh cycles for their spare batteries. Have gathered all flashlights from trucks and packs for checking. If batteries don't test above 70% to 80% reserve capacity they go on refresh. If under 70% they see a full charge, refresh or break-in cycle based on their measured voltage and amperage in relation to rated maximum.

So far have almost every device minus a few strays loaded with fresh batteries. This includes remotes for t.v., stereo and other small devices. Picture below shows charged batteries in basket on right and batteries for service in left basket plus two chargers running not counting chargers on other dresser. While have a couple four packs of AA and AAA's in my backpack, truck console, desks at work etc realize really only have enough batteries to swap every device once and unless able to charge as go would be dead in SHTF scenario of needing batteries fast while grid is down and trying to possibly run silent and conserve my big battery stacks.

In the charged basket as of this picture when swapped out this morning is 44 AA's and 48 AAA's. Have an even dozen rechargeable CR 123's which won't keep night vision running long as run lithium batteries most time in night vision as are full voltage for longer through reserve capacity, last 4 times longer than alkaline, 8 times longer run time than nicads and almost half the weight. Some of my more mission critical AA and AAA equipment that keep batteries in for long periods unchecked the lithium have shelf life up to ten years and seldom corrode or rupture. That said on today's list is swing in Batteries Plus and grab another couple dozen or so AAA's, dozen AA's and CR 123 nicads if have that many in stock. Many of my rechargeable nicads carry pre Y2K dates and it won't hurt to have a fresh supply as want enough to swap every single device twice or high use devices several times before have to charge batteries.

Tag another $200 to $300 in batteries on this week's expenses but as get 20 plus years out of them using quality chargers and proper break-in, refresh, multi-cycle discharge/recharge cycles good nicads and good chargers are a bargain. To know batteries buy today will possibly still be in service after I die is a comfort. More in the system and less stress on each cell plus newer nicads have much longer lifespan than those in the past. If you could not buy fresh batteries for say five years how many could keep their flashlights and radios working? If notice in pile are a few AA and AAA battery packs for my handheld radios. Any Icom, Motorola, Kenwood or Yaesu radio can get a AA/AAA battery housing for or battery box that plugs into power port on side of radio gets at least one, usually two so have to take my OEM radio batteries stopping taking a charge into consideration. Inventory exactly how many batteries you need, bet most need well over 100 total and have double that in rechargeables plus keep them maintained. Gotta be prepped for that EMP, grid collapse, SHTF whatever at all times. Don't get caught with dim lights and dead radios.

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Old March 03, 2018, 20:26   #153
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Have had my PM box filling up daily with questions on two topics. AP that will defeat Level 3 rifle plates including ceramic/Kevlar composites and AR 500 steel. Also a few want ammo that will defeat Level 4 rifle plates. My most asked questions continue to be recommendations about body armor. Had to pull three of my daily wear kits apart today as had begun to reek (winter usually get three or four days before wash carrier but now on two to three day cycle as weather warms) and put three kits together so my minimum of five work kits rule, hanging ready for use is not violated.

Here is a kit that I broke down due to funky smell after sweating in sun yseterday in a DEFCON 2 Kit:



Notice pair of Level 2 Goldshield soft panels with standard profile front and wide profile rear that wrap all the way around body so have at least 2" of overlap to protect from oblique angle shots to the side of torso. There are a pair of Protech/Safariland 6"×9" front and rear (rear is flexible, front is rigid) which will stop most any known handgun round stand alone including special threats but want the soft armor behind to disperse the blunt trauma and provide coverage for majority of torso for threats up to 9mm/357 mag.

The Goldshield with Protech Dyneema special threat plates will actually stop this new wave of cheap steel case lead core bullet 7.62×39 but the good old steel core corrosive military ammo shreds it. Thus if using cheap ×39 in your AK for defensive ammo it's not going to deal with decent armor or barriers well. The Goldshield soft panels are carried in a Second Chance carrier with 6"×9" plate pockets front and back. Always wondered why most covert armor has pocket only in front as I worry about being shot in back more than front and a bullet in the spine seems like suck @$$ deal. Panels and plates are wiped down with non ammonia organic peace freak/hippie health food store all purpose/all surface cleaner. Wet a few paper towels, wipe down and sit to side to dry. The carriers are washed in washing machine on delicate setting with warm wash and cold rinse. Use good quality specialty detergent for high dollar outdoor wear like down, Gore-tex, etc then hang dry instead of machine dry or will cut life of carrier by 40%.

Tearing the others down are basically same deal so here is reversing the process and reassembling my stack outs:



Above right is a DEFCON 1 stack out already assembled. It's a narrow front and rear panel with Level 2 soft armor (standard Kevlar layers) with a single flexible 6"×9" Safariland/Protech Special Threat plate in Paca front carrier. There is no plate rear and panels do not overlap so there is about two inches of gap down side of torso to allow body to get better ventilation on hot days or if want to be ultra covert. Stops up to 9mm/357 mag and front plate covers heart and most of lungs stopping all special threat handgun rounds stand alone.

The vest on left (above and below pics) has pair of Saraland Level Level 2 soft armor plates and has dual trauma pockets front and single pocket rear. Gets a rigid 6"×9" Safariland/Protech plate front and same size/brand flexible panel rear over the soft armor. Based on mood and where am planning to be will sometimes stick a Paca 5"×8" soft plate in pocket between Dyneema plate and soft armor for extra ballistic and bunt force trauma. The carrier is made with an extra layer that stops electronic discharge weapons like Tazers and stun guns. The sharp barbs of Tazor leads can zip through soft armor like the needle that's used to sew it together. Of course my Dyneema Trauma Plates stop them as well as edged weapons. Seldom run stab panels in covert armor except DEFCON 3 use for security at church.
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Not going to get too deep into rifle kits except discuss a few plates. Below photos show a Safariland/Protech ceramic/Kevlar composite with very comfortable soft padding in rear which adds a lot of comfort though a tad heavy. Not near as heavy as dot mil Level 3 ceramic panels but not what I classify as lightweight:





Plate on right is a Hardwire/Safariland Level 3+ plate. It is thicker than the Safariland/Protech and has no soft panel to go against body but can add a pad to your carrier if not using soft armor under panels. Have two pair of the Hardwire plates with rectangular for rear as shown in pictures and shooters cut shaped like the Safariland for front. What I like about the Hardwire is best price point in entry level lightweight rifle plates and has 25 year warranty from Safariland from date of issue. Also it can be dropped with no worries about cracking a ceramic level like military plates and lots of others. These are the best high tech plates for the money without going for name brand Dyneema which is thinner, lighter and stronger but gets deep into your wallet.

Now for the best value plate money can buy go to this guy's fleabay auction. Have shot four of his plates and they stop multiple rounds of 7.62 M80 ball and 5.56 M193 ball ammo and don't hardly notice 7.62×39.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Body-Armor-...UAAOxyUylTUGXy

The guy that makes these is a good egg and at $80 each are a lot of plate for the money. A bit heavy but not near as heavy crappy @$$ steel plates and no spalling when take rounds. Have shot one with three rounds of M80 and four rounds of M193 ball without failure but rounds were well spaced. Will suck up five rounds of 7.62 M80 ball without failure as long as don't stack three on top of each other. He is a really nice guy, knowledgeable engineer and hand lays all panels himself. Look back through this thread and can glean more information then PM if have specific questions not covered in posts.

Have covered my DEFCON 1 and 2 covert stacks and upping soft armor or adding stab panels to my DEFCON 2 is what my version of DEFCON 3 is. The hard plates above are the basis of my DEFCON 4 stack outs and then use Dyneema or Level 4 ceramic/Kevlar plates (Level 4 ceramic/Kevlar are HEAVY) in conjunction with Level 3a soft armor and stab panels to build out my DEFCON 5 stack outs.

My DEFCON 5 will stop all handgun rounds including special threats from shoulder to groin in front and down to mid butt rear and to elbow if add shoulder and bicep DAPS. Add helmet with face shield and nape protector, forearm armor, elbow armor, armored knee pads, shin guards and chaps along with shrapnel shorts and ballistic boots am level 3a from head to toe except hands and 300 Win Mag chest/back with overlaps to keep oblique angle rounds out. About all can do in the full head to toe kit is sit behind hide and run a rifle, walk from room to room in house or do one fast door kick and sweep few rooms then sit down but put it on and sit behind one of my barriers can sit and snipe while stopping up to 338 Lapua rounds and the spall from them as my barriers are Level 4+ minimum.

Trump is entertaining the idea of banning sales of armor to civilians on recommendations of law enforcement advisors. Cops at department level don't want civilians in armor as levels the playing field or gives us the advantage in many circumstances. Especially locked up in our houses with quality gas masks. Have been continuing to buy armor of all types as believe when day comes that must have LEO or dot gov letter to buy price is going to go through the roof like AR's post Sandy Hook. If Trump doesn't get conned next Dem administration will ban it.
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Old March 18, 2018, 20:27   #154
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So these new indoor shutters have become a new popular design style of HGTV. I saw the advantage of mounting shutters like this as more than decorative and wife has approved a project to do every window on the Ponderosa in a similar fashion.





Instead of just a track above for them to slide my design is going to have a track on bottom as well. Since the backs of the shutters is not seen it's not got to be astetically pleasing so my plan is to use sheets of 9/16" ballistic fiberglass and cover them with rough sawn cedar on inside and put a dual locking system.

Since windows already have NIJ Level 2 rated abrasion resistant polycarbonate on second floor and NIJ Level 3a polycarbonate on first floor windows along front and sides of house and the basemen windows along rear of house have two layears of abrasion resistant polycarbonate (one Level 3a and one Level 2) along with shatterproof hurricane rated storm windows once we slide the shutters closed will have three layers of ballistic material between outside and inside with exterior shutters.

One house we have seen they did similar treatment to exterior doors with interior "barn door sliders" and we will be doing so as well. Already have force rated entry ballistic exterior doors with locking shatterproof hurricane rated storm doors so again, a third redundant layer that we do not have to go outside to impliment. The existing exterior shutters are hinged with ability to lock and have a layer of 1/4" AR XXX steel that when closed will be facing outwards.

Thus if time allows windows will have three to four layers not counting dualike pane windows, one or two of ballistic polycarbonate then a layer of ballistic fiberglass inside to absorb any spall that managed to get through. Expect windows to exceed NIJ Level 3+/4. Exterior doors were obtained from a company that supplies dot gov agencies with force rated ballistic doors and with the new internal sliders and security storm doors will be way in excess of NIJ Level 4 rated.

With masonry exterior, reinforced areas between exterior and interior walls under and to sides of windows and either side of doors once we batton the hatches only way to get us out is burn us out and steps have been taken to make that difficult at best. Metal roof will not burn easily nor the brick. Use a lot of fire retardant paint at work for fire walls and other things code calls for it and whenever have torn out drywall spray the framing inside with it, use fire proof insulation and then replace drywall with water resistant/fire resistant "purple board", fiberglass reinforced concrete board and in some rooms 1/2" ballistic fiberglass. Our master bath shower enclosure design was CNC machined into 5/8" White abrasion resistant polycarbonate around a cast iron tub, force rated entry door as well as master bedroom door weighing over 350 pounds hung on 78" heavy duty piano hinge attached to steel framing.

If a person were to get their wife watching some of the current design shows and talk them into the new indoor shutter and secondary sliding "barn door" fad, even if used mild steel plate as base layer before laminating an attractive wood over then if SHTF even someone in wheelchair could roll around closing the extra shutters and reimforced doors without exposing themselves. With the 2" sandpiper and 2" firefighters hose outside and two fire extinguishers in every room plus automated systems in high threat areas, it will be tough to get this place burning hot enough to run fast. Just passed the 25 year mark in hardening the house.

Last week's project was installing an electric/propane refrigerator in basement panic room so when electricity goes, it switches automatically to using propane to cool so does not tax our generator or battery stacks. We are shopping for a new camper and have been pulling the propane hot water heater, propane stove and oven, propane/electric refrigerator freezer and installing a working kitchen and all lighting in that room is 12 volt DC LED and basically ripped off the design and components from standard camper technology. Was super cheap not counting the ballistic fiberglass but most came from a freight company auction of unclaimed items. Turned 55 a couple weeks ago and goal is to have house finished by age 60 which will have been 30 years consisting of at least one major hardening and/or security feature added per year. Over the winter began swapping the older polycarbonate out with bronze tinted Lexa MR 10 abrasion resistant. From inside looks like all windows are lightly tinted but from outside unless strongly backlighted from inside all someone trying to look in sees is their reflection in a bronze colored mirrored material. Wife loves being abe to keep blinds open but nobody see in.

If you believe or are even concerned about SHTF need to think about hardening your home. Southwestern adobe structures are tough as are log homes with metal roofs but if live in vinyl siding house or synthetic stucco it's basically a Styrofoam cup with some plaster or plastic covering it. 1950's and 1960's brick homes make the perfect platform to gut and remodel, especially ones with good high ceiling basements. If shop for a house think about how difficult it would be to penetrate walls. A friend was about to have his vinyl siding replaced due to warping, I walked up to his garage, pulled several runs of vinyl off with bare hands, kicked through the foil covered Styrofoam and asked him if needed to bust on through drywall to make my point. He was stunned and had house recovered with Hardiboard instead. Can do the same with synthetic stucco or EIFS, whichever term you want to use. Wife is excited about shutters she can close if I am not home. Win/win.
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Old April 07, 2018, 05:05   #155
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Cruising Craigslist this week and found a vendor selling all the ballistic glass and polycarbonate from a bank decomission. Got the big two piece drive through windows which is blast and ballistic rated in frame, dozens of large, medium and smaller pieces of ballistic polycarbonate for $300 and he met me half way. Have 60"×144" picture window with two layers of 1/2" abrasion resistant polycarbonate that each sheet stops most handgun rounds and combined never punched two sheets with a handgun of any type from 454 Casull Mag with hard cast, hot 38 Super, 40 Smith or 10mm.

The bank drive through window has center support as our big picture window does but is 40"×120" now have to figure out how to center this bank window up in existing and properly support (have masonry and steel to attach it to) then the top 10" which is above head height fill gap with a 12" piece of 1/2" abrasion resistant polycarbonate and the 12" on either end the same. Will give me 33.33 square feet of UL blast and ballistic rated glass behind two sheets of 1/2" polycarbonater and then along top which is above sight line a third layer of 1/2"×12" polycarbonate and same on either end. Be some more framing but all brushed stainless and can make it resonably attractive and know majority of this huge @$$ window which has survived direct strikes of limbs in big storms spawned by hurricanes bring out, downdraft microburts and high winds flinging tree limbs with other debris at least four to six times ballistic ability as current.

Have one more big window of concern on front porch next to front door looking into living room. It's a 60"×60" standard pane glass window with storm window covering outside. Did laminate the storm window with 3M Ultra Prestige Security Film which makes it almost impervious to attack with crowbar, baseball bat or concrete block. Inside have a single layer of 1/2" abrasion resistant polycarbonate that know will stop 9mm, 357 mag, 44 mag along with high pressure rounds like 40 Smith and 38 Super but some of the specialty 357 SIG will slide through with little gas left and 50 caliber copper solid shotgun slugs will defeat it although lose a lot of punch in the process. Turns out is a piece of U.V. stabile U.L. Level 3 (rated 44 Mag 240 grain wadcutter with 12 gauge shotgun 1 ounce slug supplimental rating) piece from the bank lot slightly oversized as need to cut it to 59"×59" to fit frame and go over outside of the big window looking at my recliner.

Now can sit in recliner knowing that door is 20 minute force rated entry and NIJ 4 ballistic rated plus that big window will stop most if not all handgun and shotgun threats with first layer then have the coated glass to suck up more energy if first level defeated then the 1/2" abrasion resistant polycarbonate inside that ensures no handgun, shotgun or subgun mag dump gets in and should take most of the sting out of rifle bullets but not all. They should be deformed and moving off path up to 7.62×51 ball and when wife is home alone she should have more time to navigate to panic room if that picture window is attacked. It's ground level and concerned me some time. The really big window in back is second story and anyone walking in back yard with a battle rifle has already set off alarms. In a few weeks house will have its two most vulnerable areas more than doubled in ballistic protection level. Makes me happy to keep hardening the Ponderosa.
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Old April 17, 2018, 14:49   #156
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Beware of huge amount of Chinese armor on fleabay that usually says "has letter of certification from H.P. White laboratories" or something of that nature. Half the helmets for sale on fleabay say that and a lot of folks are also buying the Chinese helmets adding a few pieces of USGI accessories like suspension and padding kits which are dirt cheap, painting with custom pattern usually looks like scales or something really high speed/low drag along with some airsoft N Rails, then dragging through dirt just enough to convince you its lightly used USGI and the advertisement will also usually say "RARE MICH Mid Cut Helmet Ops-Core EOG MARSOC SOF JSOC NSW". Look closely and if vendor seems to always have lightly used special ops gear they are either top notch and have great feedback or crooks.

A one minute video by a former SEAL on how to handle a dog attack.

http://www.businessinsider.com/navy-...-by-dog-2017-6
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Old April 19, 2018, 19:43   #157
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Every overt rifle vest, load carrying vest, backpack, bug out bag, etc now has these two lights in addition to whatever lights they might have as part of their mission.



The upper light is an aluminum body Coast narrow field of view light about the size of a fountain pen with two brightness settings. It's high power is still narrow but will throw it's beam a good 150 feet and on low power it is perfect for map reading of pilfering through a pack without creating so much stray light everyone in eye shot could see you, it's very discreet and runs for months on a pair of rechargeable AAA's even with a lot of use as in daily use.

The small Pellican I.R. light is great for looking at maps, radios, in bags, dark corners, etc when your night vision needs a little help but don't want to create a huge flume of light to alert anyone around using night vision to your presence. Am learning very small low power lights are as important if not more important than a big torch in a lot of applications, are lightweight and take up almost no room. They both will fit in or clip to a free molle loop and the Coast will clip to one and tuck into loop of next row and is very secure.
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Old April 25, 2018, 21:38   #158
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A Little Random Rant

Aussie troops were buying U.S. armor for use in Afganistan out of pocket their TBAS was so uncomfortable. Stuff is said to be so combersome if fall on back can't get up without help like turning over a turtle. Of course U.S. troops were buying armore out of pocket or family was sending then they got IOTV but Colonels and Generals were wearing Pinnacle Dragon Skin because they could afford it and Army banned personal armor as troops didn't trust armor their superior officers would not wear. Funny thing is original Dragon Skin would not stop an oblique shot. Have to send your $2,500 armor set to Stealth Armor Systems for a rebuild that costs $1,500 or just drop $3,000 for their LVAC Hexar 3+ full coverage multi-hit. Want some Hexar flexible plates bad.

Just got a pair of plates today that are absolute edge of my price point. Been assembling a covert and overt full featured kit for member here with helmet and accessories and noticed a pair of plates seller was asking $499 each (retail for $660 and street is $575 each) for and had seen them first time months ago. Did my usual thing and watched them run through three seven day auctions then emailed an offer when saw they were getting no bites. They were offended and told me I didn't know what they were. Said I did but with them not being authorized dealer could they give warranty cards?

Now months later were still for sale, had finally dropped price to $450 each and I sent $700 offer for the pair (8"×10" for covert armor not full size 10"×12" plates) shipped and they came back with big fat no again. Said I had no idea what they were and I in turn educated seller what high end plates sell for from non dealers missing box and papers on fleabay. A week or so later they offered to split it to $400 each plus shipping and told them I made best offer could. Mid week last week got a message asking if I would still give four bills, said yes and arrived early today. Manufacture date Dec 2016 and had never been worn as had the original shrink wrap on them.

Called my Safariland rep, told him what had done then emailed pictures. Before left work had email with pdf file with paperwork to fill out for my 10 year waranty. Have three product reviews on Safariland sites of high end products, one with eight vests with their $250 special threat plates, another for their $1,020 each Hardwire Level 3++ stand alone plates with pictures and review with pictures of their Protech Level 3+ $750 each plates. Far as their concerned have purchased $5,500+ worth of current model plates and reviewed well on their site. They gave me my 25 year factory warranty on my Hardwire plates and 10 year on all the Protechs. Know I bought as dealer samples on the cheap carried around but never removed from shrink wrap so they know will likely get a nice review of their newer top line LEO/military only plates. Cool thing is fit in one of my covert kits and cover huge amount of real estate, weigh 1.5 pounds each and less than inch thick with antimicrobial padding. Only plate have seen rated to stop M855A1 and 300 Win Mag multiple hits other than my Hardwire plates and their Level 4 plates which I have but bought moderately used but after review the new plates going to see if can talk them into recovering the Level 4 plates and putting a warranty on them.

But 8"×10" is biggest plate can wear concealed and never had a rifle plate could wear in back and sit comfortably with rear plate installed. Have both plates in one of my Safariland level 2+ kits now and been sitting on sofa for couple of hours. Plan to wear them tomorrow to funeral between Columbia and Charleston and carry the pair of 10.5" piston drive AR 15's. Told to expect it to be long event with one and half hour reception then three pm service with three preachers and grace side with full military honors including guns and bugle. Wife's great uncle was awarded Legion of Merit, Bronze Star, Purple Heart and more fighting in Europe during WW2. With us being told that still on occasion get protestors at military funerals as the Patriot Guard motorcycle guys will be there and they tend to draw protestors who follow them around but with it being a 90 year old WW2 veteran low odds of issues but now having a covert kit that weighs seven pounds protecting heart, lungs and spine from multiple hits up to 300 Win Mag and M855A1 just have to wear it since be on the road and want to.

Now have five sets of lightweight to moderately lightweight high threat rifle plates, six or more sets of moderate weight Level 3 rifle plates and two Level 4 and more average weight Level 3 plates than can count. Have 14 rifle kits totally set up ready to deploy with radios, IFAK's, mag carriers, communications harnesses for multi radio operation, various add on features based on desire and goals plus one in my truck, one in wife's truck and half dozen at work. Crazy thing is when people contact wanting to buy armor rather than sell my kits find them good kits based on their size/desires/needs as afraid to sell mine and Trump sign the armor ban for civilians all the police agencies have been asking for. Best part of new plates is not supposed to have them and Safariland doesn't care but gave me my warranty. Wife even pulled a covert Level 2 kit for tomorrow with special threat plates.
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Old April 29, 2018, 09:28   #159
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Look at weight and contemplate these are rated to stop six rounds of 7.62 NATO M80 ball and the new 5.56 M855A1 replacement for green tips. Only Level 3 have seen to claim abe to stop the new M855A1.



Don't want to know the price, over a grand for a set of plates at retail.
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Old April 29, 2018, 09:45   #160
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The title of the thread should be:

The Great Wall of Text....no one can get over it.
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Old May 10, 2018, 16:51   #161
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To whom it may concern:
(and for 2 bare arms, here is a wall of test and pics plus extraneous crap to baffle folks as the person post is for will know more about what he is getting, not getting and might want to add to order while is being processed...)

This is your NIJ Level 2 covert kit with Dyneema special threat plate rated to NIJ 3a stand alone plus most know handgun special threats. Keeps majority of torso from being punctured by most threats up to 9mm/357 Mag and lungs/heart area protected from virtually all handgun threats while being trim and easy to hide under a light shirt.



On your trauma plate can choose from any on right or left side, I would choose one on right as will fit your vest well and all are Dyneema, the round top are tad more comfortable with triple compound curve molded in.





If prefer, top of this stack has Kevlar lined AR250 steel plates for overt, its old technology but many old timers wont use anything else.



Plenty of name brand Kevlar trauma panels as well.



Here is your IOTV overt woodland camo kit with soft armor rated to stop a "burst from 9mm submachinegun" which in my testing is a solid NIJ 3a multi-hit. Has three magazine pouches that hold two 30 round 5.56 mags each, If want to rearrange you can, I would use the upper one next to universal medium/large frame pistol holster for radio if need comms, can add another mag pouch if you want, have them in stock. Dang if both woodland IFAK's ordered were not back-ordered but can supply contents for IFAK in ACU, black or send a woodland when find it. Just in looking back at pics of my kits looks like only one has a woodland IFAK, I seem to use digital woodland or multicam most often. Hmmm.



Here is the first of your two plate choices. One is NIJ Level 3 stand alone and other is NIJ Level 3 ICW soft arnor whic of course is in the IOTV carrier. Pair conbined are pushing nine pounds which is just a tad over the weight of a single steel plate without spall guard panel.



Here is your second plate choice adds a few pounds, just shy of 13 pounds combined with one plate being Level IV stand alone and other being NIJ 3 stand alone and NIJ IV ICW soft armor.



The level four adds a few pounds and a few dollars but since odds are will not be used unless SHTF or hear a bump in the night and need to patrol the yard its the difference between stopping the Level 3 stopping 7.62 M80 ball and 5.56 M193 ball compared to the Level 4 stopping 30-06 black tip AP and 5.56 M855 green tip. As common as green tip is now and fact my next doo neighbor and across the street neighbor both hunt and defend their homes with 30-06 bolt rifles my protect the Pondeorsa kits are Level 4.

My might have to lace up the boots to run around possibly go for a hike would grab a kit with the lighter plates hoping I didn't get shot with anything more than M80 or M193 and know that if I am the Level 3 kit takes a huge amount of lethality away from the hit. I do have a set of Level 4 lightweight plates but paid $400 each for the privilege which stung the wallet but I have a broken back and broken neck so need the weight savings but will only risk getting them damaged if SHTF and have to live in full armor long term.

If just slip out in the yard my Level 4 kit is exact same plates have proposed for you as are my primary Level 3 plates because came in group power buy. Pulled these NIJ 4 plates out of my spare kit which normally do not do for folks but need to recoup the hit I took buying a set of Level 3+ covert plates found while shopping for your kits.

Have your helmet and NOS U.S. issue woodland cover to swap for the ACU on it currently and is real milspec, not crappy chinese copy that lights up under I.R. night vision like a torch on your head. Your helmet will be very similar to front and center unit in below pic.



Plan on dropping a repair kit for vest in the IFAK contents as any small tears need to be fixed before they get stressed.



If want throat protector have them, I seldom use but adds $15.

If want gloves have cut/needle/fire resistant that still have enough feel to pick up a dime off flat surface.



All the folks trying to cheap out using chinese airsoft carriers with steel armor wil suffer till thier kits fall apart i matter of days or weeks. Past two months have had two people (one car repo acquaintance and one bail bond skip tracer) both showed up with fleabay carriers and steel armor with truck bed liner for spall coating which does not work to see if I could help them. both of their carriers had blown seams and said before the seams blew the kits were so uncomfortable they could barely stand wearing them.

Dont buy cheap steel in cheap carriers in the fleabay kits that some are doing a fine job marketing to look like a cool setup for fair price. To date have now had six people buy my cast off milspec ceramic plates that I no longer use or sell to friends with money in Condor carriers which are decent but not low I.R. signature materials and dyes if in situation where opposing person is using night vision. The Condor and chinese materials and dyes light up especially if use standard detergents to wash with U.V. brighteners.

So for the Files member soon to be a new daddy need to decide if want to save just a few dollars and a few pounds and be Level 3 or spend a tad more and carry a bit more weight to be Level 4. That's the difference between the SWAT guys in the van, backup stations and rooftop (level 3) versus the door kickers and actual entry team (Level 4) who may get their @$$ shot. Helmet will get cover on and going to dig at home and see if can find a spare woodland IFAK can pull off one of my kits as will find one soon and want to get your kit in the mail. Just PM and let me know which plates to stick in the IOTV vest. For those who night want to know what a nice covert and overt setup costs here is the breakdown.

New Old Stock (still an issue item) Woodland IOTV carrier with soft armor, new neck yoke and neck armor, $250, new groin protector $20. Holster $18. three double 5.56 mag pouches $36, genuine U.S. issue woodland helmet cover $36, nice U.S. Gentex made MICH helmet $90.

Set of name brand U.S. Level 3 plates (mix of ICW and stand alone) $150. Set of name brand U.S. Level 4 plates (mix of ICW and stand alone) $200.

Second Chance NIJ Level 2 covert vest in very clean condition, $75. Dyneema special threat plate $29. That's $104 for a very clean covert vest looks like worn only a few times. I did buy four more while shopping, paid more for some, less for others while shopping and picked best option for Files members needs. the others will stockpile and use as body armor is hot item locally after our international news event highway sniper attack in Mayberry.

New overt vest with accessories minus IFAK and plates $324. which is half what Uncle Sugar pays. Level 3 plates will bump it to $474 and Level 4 plates to $524. Current issue MICH helmet with cover $126 thus upper body Level 3 with helmet and all nice new matching accessories and covers $600. Same kit in Level 4 with matching accessories and helmet $650. Covert kit $104 with latest top line ultra light trauma plate $104.

IFAK is $59 plus $20 for latest generation tourniquet for $79 total.

All has been inspected by myself and having shot over 100 separate pieces of armor would bet my life all will perform to rated standards. If want used covers and accessories, willing to risk buying some cheap stuff and possibly have to throw in the "to be shot for testing pile" can do it all cheaper. I bought over $2,000 worth of armor while picking out this kit for a member here but I like buying armor and don't mind the pieces that came in and didn't look as clean as wanted to represent myself kept for myself. He needed a medium IOTV vest and purchased three woodland IOTV kits varying in price from $199 to $250 one with neck yoke other without, let the one with the neck yoke go as have lots of neck yokes and don't care if mine match. if look back through this thread will see a bunch of nice matching kits where look like stinking salesman display models trying to close a multi-million dollar deal with Uncle Sugar. A lot of my kits are Salesman samples and most overt armor I sell is new, never issued.

A personal kit of mine, woodland IOTV carrier, groin protector, throat protector ACU neck yoke and IFAK wih Multicam mag pouch, O.D. Green holster and radio pouch plus digital woodland accessory pouch. Looks odd and has same Level 3 plate set giving Files member option of owning. I don't like the faded ACU IFAK and plan on replacing soon as dig though all the crap am filtering right now for three total people.



Part of what am having to pilfer though to make no money off a Files member that has been decent to me in the past. Will make money off some chump with plenty. Like my free AR upper repair service, blows a lot of folks minds but I enjoy it so don't need to make money everything I do but need to break even on armor.







See kits that look like these in my house can be sure are top notch everything, batteries in radios are charged, magazines rotated regular, flashlights bright, totally ready to rock. Can tell I do like IOTV and especially woodland as its easy to get in with front entry and woodland works great in southeast.















These be some burly Level 3++ hard plates that wrap around torso and almost give full coverage.



Level 3++ plate carrier that goes in whichever truck I drive on any particular day in case it turns to crap.



The seat cover in my little work truck.



Don't know if I an a hoarder, paranoid, or just looney tunes but every room of our house when close door there is a vest hanging at ready with rifle its set up to support. When wife and I both leave the house locking up the rifles is a chore and then getting them back out another but its our routine. All trucks are set up with armor and rifle for one, if we travel together kit for the other has to be moved in. Recently the new guy at the LGS had to ask me if I really had ballistic underwear. When showed him the pics and said it was fireproof ballistic underwear he had to fin over some cash to the folks he called B.S. on and made a bet thinking they were messing with his head...







This pic has all the info need if want to order your own underwear, protecting that femoral artery is a big deal. Most docs go for this in their kits.



My personal at the house redundant backups.









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