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The FAL Files Forums  »  Weapon Specific Forums » The AR Files » A1 kit Accuracy report???
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Topic: A1 kit Accuracy report???
Ghost
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Old Post November 17, 2009 02:49    Click Here to See the Profile for Ghost   Click here to Send Ghost a Private Message   Click Here to Email Ghost     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #1
Wondering if any one has done an accuracy test on the new A1 kits available with the new US made barrels?

quality impressions of the new barrels?

thanks

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elguapo
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Old Post November 20, 2009 09:50    Click Here to See the Profile for elguapo   Click here to Send elguapo a Private Message   Click Here to Email elguapo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #2
This should be interesting, will follow it.

I myself have a complete A1 upper. I plan on shooting 55gr M193 type ball in it.

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Survey Punk
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Old Post November 20, 2009 15:27    Click Here to See the Profile for Survey Punk   Click here to Send Survey Punk a Private Message   Click Here to Email Survey Punk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #3
Where are these kits, more specifically the barrels, coming from? Chrome lined?

JB

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HarlanNDS
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Old Post November 20, 2009 18:17    Click Here to See the Profile for HarlanNDS   Click here to Send HarlanNDS a Private Message   Click Here to Email HarlanNDS   Visit HarlanNDS's homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #4
quote:
Originally posted by Survey Punk
Where are these kits, more specifically the barrels, coming from? Chrome lined?

JB


The M16A1 kits are being offered by Century Intl Arms, J&G Sales, The Dealer Warehouse, and Sportsmans Guide.
The barrels are U.S. made, and not chrome lined.
The original source of the rifles that became the kits is unknown.

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Barry
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Old Post November 20, 2009 18:18    Click Here to See the Profile for Barry   Click here to Send Barry a Private Message   Click Here to Email Barry     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #5
I can't imagine that these barrels are anything more than unlapped, non-chromed, button rifled cheap commercial barrels good for about 3,000 rounds.

I may be wrong, but I wouldn't bet on it!

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Ghost
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Old Post November 21, 2009 01:49    Click Here to See the Profile for Ghost   Click here to Send Ghost a Private Message   Click Here to Email Ghost     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #6
3,000 rounds? The description does say non chrome, 1/9 twist.
Would all non chrome lined AR barrels only last 3,000 rounds? that just seems excessively short, as I know I will quickly put may more round than that down the tube.

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84SS
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Old Post November 21, 2009 03:10    Click Here to See the Profile for 84SS   Click here to Send 84SS a Private Message   Click Here to Email 84SS     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #7
someone speculated the kits were reimports from Israel.

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Barry
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Old Post November 21, 2009 03:21    Click Here to See the Profile for Barry   Click here to Send Barry a Private Message   Click Here to Email Barry     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #8
quote:
Originally posted by Ghost
3,000 rounds? The description does say non chrome, 1/9 twist.
Would all non chrome lined AR barrels only last 3,000 rounds? that just seems excessively short, as I know I will quickly put may more round than that down the tube.


I shoot NRA Highpower. 3-4,000 rounds is all you can expect out of a button rifled barrel. I burn one up just about every year.

If you want longer barrel life, you have to go to a chrome lined barrel or a hammer forged barrel, both of which are more expensive than these cheap trade barrels. I would expect this barrel to be the same thing you get in a low-end kit gun from any of the usual AR15 kit makers. Most of them are good for 1 to 1 1/2 MOA for about 3,000 rounds. After that, they quickly burn completely.

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Barry
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Old Post November 21, 2009 03:23    Click Here to See the Profile for Barry   Click here to Send Barry a Private Message   Click Here to Email Barry     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #9
quote:
Originally posted by 84SS
someone speculated the kits were reimports from Israel.


Yeah, but that doesn't mean anything as far as the barrels. Barrels are not importable. These are new barrels with the kits.

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Ghost
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Old Post November 21, 2009 05:09    Click Here to See the Profile for Ghost   Click here to Send Ghost a Private Message   Click Here to Email Ghost     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #10
sounds like I'm going to have to save up for a chrome lined one (might take me awhile). problem is I haven't found a manufacture that has A1 profile Chrome lined barrels.

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Sgt_Gold
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Old Post November 30, 2009 02:57    Click Here to See the Profile for Sgt_Gold   Click here to Send Sgt_Gold a Private Message   Click Here to Email Sgt_Gold     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #11
I know numerous high power shooters that use a 'shot out' barrel for the reduced 300 yard course. Chrome molly or chrome lined is better for longevity, but you're nor going to see much of a difference in accuracy sub 300 yards with a regular button barel.

quote:
Originally posted by Barry
I shoot NRA Highpower. 3-4,000 rounds is all you can expect out of a button rifled barrel. I burn one up just about every year.


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Ghost
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Old Post November 30, 2009 03:22    Click Here to See the Profile for Ghost   Click here to Send Ghost a Private Message   Click Here to Email Ghost     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #12
At first I was more worried about accuracy. but now the longevity has me concerned. 3,000 rounds is not allot. I knew that a high velocity small diameter bullet placed more ware on a barrels life but that's almost unacceptable.
what about the original AR15 barrels they were originally non lined, even the early A1s only had a chrome chamber. did they suffer from this short life?
between the short barrel life and having to pin the FSB would I be better off finding a NOS colt 1:12 chrome lined?

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Squint
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Old Post November 30, 2009 23:15    Click Here to See the Profile for Squint   Click here to Send Squint a Private Message   Click Here to Email Squint     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #13
You can probably find an entire surplus upper cheaper than what a NOS Colt 1-12 barrel will cost you if you can find it. I payed $245 for a very nice A-1 upper about 2 years ago.

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Barry
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Old Post December 02, 2009 16:57    Click Here to See the Profile for Barry   Click here to Send Barry a Private Message   Click Here to Email Barry     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #14
quote:
Originally posted by Sgt_Gold
I know numerous high power shooters that use a 'shot out' barrel for the reduced 300 yard course. Chrome molly or chrome lined is better for longevity, but you're nor going to see much of a difference in accuracy sub 300 yards with a regular button barel.



No, I mean shotgun patterns at 300 yards and closer.

Yes, a lot of guys will relegate their #1 barrel to practice/close range status when it hit 3,000 rounds or stops shooting at 600. But then you may only have 1,500 or fewer rounds before it stops shooting even up close.

My last stainless match barrel gave up completely at 4,200 rounds. A cheap kit gun barrel (button rifled, chrome moly) gave up sooner (Hell, it never really shot anyway). Button and cut rifled barrels may give up sooner than these, but they are not likely to last much longer in .223 caliber.

A Colt button rifled and chrome lined barrel will last about 10,000 rounds before it starts to keyhole, depending on how hard you ride and how your luck is. They say hammer forged, chrome lined will last twice as long.

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Sgt_Gold
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Old Post December 02, 2009 17:48    Click Here to See the Profile for Sgt_Gold   Click here to Send Sgt_Gold a Private Message   Click Here to Email Sgt_Gold     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #15
Making a blanket statement on the longevity of a barrel based on how it's rifled is like throwing darts in the dark. I know shooters with Kreiger barrels that didn't last 3k rounds. I know one M-14 shooter who has over 8k rounds through a match barrel and it still hammers at 600 yards. Douglass uses button rifling and I know plenty of AR shoters that get 5k rounds through those barrels. The fact that you're only getting 3k rounds through your match grade barrel is either a bad barrel or an extra hot load.

And yes, I agree that cheap AR kit barrels are going to shoot out sooner.

quote:
Originally posted by Barry


No, I mean shotgun patterns at 300 yards and closer.

Yes, a lot of guys will relegate their #1 barrel to practice/close range status when it hit 3,000 rounds or stops shooting at 600. But then you may only have 1,500 or fewer rounds before it stops shooting even up close.

My last stainless match barrel gave up completely at 4,200 rounds. A cheap kit gun barrel (button rifled, chrome moly) gave up sooner (Hell, it never really shot anyway). Button and cut rifled barrels may give up sooner than these, but they are not likely to last much longer in .223 caliber.

A Colt button rifled and chrome lined barrel will last about 10,000 rounds before it starts to keyhole, depending on how hard you ride and how your luck is. They say hammer forged, chrome lined will last twice as long.


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Ssarge
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Old Post December 02, 2009 19:48    Click Here to See the Profile for Ssarge   Click here to Send Ssarge a Private Message   Click Here to Email Ssarge     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #16
Fulton Armory was producing A1 style barrels for a "retro" AR they had. I don't know if they still produce them. J&T Dist. used to carry FN made 1/7" twist A1 profile barrels that were chrome lined, again don't know if they have any. You can still find nice M16 and M16A1 uppers on gunbroker. Just get a NDS lower and furniture from gunbroker and you'll have a GI barrel on a retro at about the same price as the kit.

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Barry
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Old Post December 03, 2009 15:54    Click Here to See the Profile for Barry   Click here to Send Barry a Private Message   Click Here to Email Barry     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #17
quote:
Originally posted by Sgt_Gold
Making a blanket statement on the longevity of a barrel based on how it's rifled is like throwing darts in the dark. I know shooters with Kreiger barrels that didn't last 3k rounds.

Obviously, there is a wide range of longevity, even among barrels rifled by different methods.
quote:

I know one M-14 shooter who has over 8k rounds through a match barrel and it still hammers at 600 yards.

.30 caliber is not in any way comparable to .223.

quote:

Douglass uses button rifling and I know plenty of AR shoters that get 5k rounds through those barrels. The fact that you're only getting 3k rounds through your match grade barrel is either a bad barrel or an extra hot load.


Forward that proposition over at a place like www.NationalMatch.US and see what kind of consensus you observe.
5k is possible out of a buttoned barrel, but it is by no means typical or even average.

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Sgt_Gold
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Old Post December 03, 2009 16:48    Click Here to See the Profile for Sgt_Gold   Click here to Send Sgt_Gold a Private Message   Click Here to Email Sgt_Gold     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #18
I just checked the NM forum and barrel life is all over the place. Shooters are reporting everything from 2k to 10k, and for numerous different makers. Like I said before, the generic barrels in some of these kits aren't worth the monery, and for a non match barrel chrome is king. As always YMMV.

quote:
Originally posted by Barry
Forward that proposition over at a place like www.NationalMatch.US and see what kind of consensus you observe.
5k is possible out of a buttoned barrel, but it is by no means typical or even average. [/B]


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Ssarge
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Old Post December 14, 2009 07:52    Click Here to See the Profile for Ssarge   Click here to Send Ssarge a Private Message   Click Here to Email Ssarge     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #19
Information is the barrels in the Sarco A1 kits are from DPMS, so quality should be OK, not stellar, but OK.

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