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Topic: Century C93's at AIM surplus for 599.95

FAL GRUNT
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Bronze Contributor
FALaholic # 7561

October 27, 2009 16:43

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Post #51

quote:
Originally posted by gw11
[B]

What I said was this gun should be built with a Bolt Gap of .020" down to a .004" Gap which is the minimum that the gun will wear too before it needs to be redone. That has never changed and will not! If the gun is built correctly it should have a finished gap or .018-.020".

[B]

Got it. I just mis-understood.

If I can get my Colt AR sold, I'll be picking one of these up. Given what Allied Armament has said, I will hopefully get one built by them.

Thanks for the help!

-myers

__________________
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hagar
Will plunder for food!
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October 27, 2009 16:54

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Post #52

Where is the best place to find a bipod? Some sucker on GB is selling them for over $100 each, he can keep them. Found another place selling it for $75 plus $11 shipping. I'm a cheapskate though, don't think they are worth more then $50!

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ThePitbullofLove
Team Motorhead
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October 27, 2009 18:47

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Post #53

quote:
Originally posted by hagar
Where is the best place to find a bipod? Some sucker on GB is selling them for over $100 each, he can keep them. Found another place selling it for $75 plus $11 shipping. I'm a cheapskate though, don't think they are worth more then $50!

Dani, there are bipods out there that are cheaper, but they are not HK. Promag makes a copy of the HK bipod that DSA used to sell for less than $50. It was not reviewed well.

If you want HK quality, you have to (over) pay for it...

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there's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you
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Ssarge
carpe poon
Bronze Contributor
FALaholic # 247

October 28, 2009 00:48

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Post #54

quote:
Originally posted by hagar
Where is the best place to find a bipod? Some sucker on GB is selling them for over $100 each, he can keep them. Found another place selling it for $75 plus $11 shipping. I'm a cheapskate though, don't think they are worth more then $50!

http://www.robertrtg.com/g3.html
Get your bipod here for $75:
DSA has an exact replica for $49:
http://www.dsarms.com/HK91_93_33-St...ductinfo/PM083/

JohnnyReb
Agent Provocateur
Gold Contributor
FALaholic # 12093

October 28, 2009 01:29

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Post #55

quote:
If they are choosing .012 then they are purposely selling an inferior firearm that will wear quickly and require replacement.

Just thinking out loud here.....

Is it possible that they want that bolt gap because it is built with a used bolt & locking piece?

I wonder what the gap would be if you immediately put new parts in it? Maybe .018-.020?

If they started at .018-.020 with the used bolt & locking piece wouldn't you be unable to put in new parts down the road without the gap being way beyond .020?

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Last edited by JohnnyReb on October 28, 2009 at 01:57

allied armament
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October 28, 2009 01:45

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Post #56

You're on the right track, used trunions, used locking piece, used carrier, used bolt. These are not new guns and its safer to set them middle range on a mass production schedule and for the most part its a cheap fix. +2 +4 rollers will greatly increase that gap. Also there is the proposition of buying a new locking piece or having the barrel pressed in further. The first two options obviously are the most cost effective and for $599, who cares

quote:
Originally posted by JohnnyReb

Just thinking out loud here.....

Is it possible that they want that bolt gap because it is built with a used bolt & locking piece?

I wonder what the gap would be if you immediately but in new parts in it? Maybe .018-.020?

If they started at .018-.020 with the used bolt & locking piece wouldn't you be unable to put in new parts down the road without the gap being way beyond .020?

__________________
Allied Armament Firearms Manufacturing and Services. Specializing in Browning Beltfeds and various other weapons. Now manufacturing 50 round drum magazines for the .308 battle rifle.

mp
Government Trained Killer

FALaholic # 654

October 28, 2009 02:41

Post #57

quote:
Originally posted by allied armament
You're on the right track, used trunions, used locking piece, used carrier, used bolt. These are not new guns and its safer to set them middle range on a mass production schedule and for the most part its a cheap fix. +2 +4 rollers will greatly increase that gap. Also there is the proposition of buying a new locking piece or having the barrel pressed in further. The first two options obviously are the most cost effective and for $599, who cares

Gonna have to call BS on this one. I build FAL's with used parts, but I don't try install a locking shoulder that gives me anything but the proper headspace. I know they are not the same weapon system, but I have never heard of any assembly that involves "guessing" the future headspace.

allied armament
Member

FALaholic # 28093

October 28, 2009 05:46

Post #58

Its not guessing the headspace, you have a range from .004-.020 Century keeps it in the middle, for ease of production. Your crazy

quote:
Originally posted by mp

Gonna have to call BS on this one. I build FAL's with used parts, but I don't try install a locking shoulder that gives me anything but the proper headspace. I know they are not the same weapon system, but I have never heard of any assembly that involves "guessing" the future headspace.

tankerfrank
Member

FALaholic # 7360

October 28, 2009 08:57

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Post #59

here is good youtube on bolt gap and how to fix it,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFESb8TK7ZA

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gw11
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October 29, 2009 10:02

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Post #60

mp

You are absolutely correct! And allied armament is absolutely Wong!

allied armament can throw out all the Bull he wants and it will not correct the Fact that these C93 Guns are assembled wrong!

The best quote is this one!

quote:
Originally posted by allied armament
You're on the right track, used trunions, used locking piece, used carrier, used bolt. These are not new guns and its safer to set them middle range on a mass production schedule and for the most part its a cheap fix. +2 +4 rollers will greatly increase that gap. Also there is the proposition of buying a new locking piece or having the barrel pressed in further. The first two options obviously are the most cost effective and for $599, who cares

What a batch of Shit!
Lowering the Guns Life Cycle from 10,000 rounds to [what? 3-4,000 rounds?]

All he knows is he got to build Shit Guns and now he says Who Care's!

Last edited by gw11 on October 29, 2009 at 23:46

allied armament
Member

FALaholic # 28093

October 31, 2009 01:19

Post #61

Listen here "GW" we are set up to build a thousand guns a month, we know what were doing, but Century set a spec and they had a reason for it. These guns go for $599 at Aim right now, if you can build one better than do so, but get off your high horse! The spec can be changed by a competent smith that works with HK's it may cost a little bit, and if I had it my way i'd raise it, not only because thats where it needs to be but because people like you demand it. We only do what Century tells us to our best ability, sorry thats not good enough for you, and its not our product its theirs. I'm just saying its a good product for the money, and if you want to go into production and show us how its done be my guest.

quote:
Originally posted by gw11
mp

You are absolutely correct! And allied armament is absolutely Wong!

allied armament can throw out all the Bull he wants and it will not correct the Fact that these C93 Guns are assembled wrong!

The best quote is this one!

What a batch of Shit!
Lowering the Guns Life Cycle from 10,000 rounds to [what? 3-4,000 rounds?]

All he knows is he got to build Shit Guns and now he says Who Care's!

allied armament
Member

FALaholic # 28093

October 31, 2009 22:07

Post #62

When we originally bid on the contract, we sent in ten guns. 6 in black 2 in park and these 2 color birds.

The goal was to bring a new level of quality to Century. On the sample guns we had refinished every part, and gave a quote for painted guns. We also welded them like the originals, trust me I <3 HK guns like no other and I know what people want. Unfortunately, we had to go very basic with the guns, but it is a smoking deal. I'm working on acquiring some kits and most likely we'll go into building Allied Spec HK 53's.

gw11
Veteran Member
Silver Contributor
FALaholic # 2731

October 31, 2009 22:15

Post #63

allied armament

I am sorry if I offended you.

But if you have the Balls to set up Good Unknowing Fellow Falfiles Members about something that you built and promote, I Sir have the Balls to make light of this intended Sham.
By Century or by You a Sham is what this is.

If anyone still wishes to purchase one of these Rifles I believe I have posted enough info for them to make the necessary corrections to make your Garbage a little Better.

I do offer you One more Option!

Prove any of my comments about the defects of these guns your building as wrong and I will Willingly go away!

gw11

allied armament
Member

FALaholic # 28093

November 01, 2009 17:39

Post #64

GW11 I believe you are absolutely right about the short sighted thought process Century has taken, but it is still a good deal for the money. The next most comparable rifle in this platform is over a 1000 + Range (like a V93, or actual HK93). For $599 i'd roll the dice all day long. We build the guns, we know what the parts look like and know what condition there in. We also know what kind of tooling it is built on, and even though the guns have the shorter life span from the decreased headspace, we know that the tooling these guns are assembled on are far superior than any small builder or even what Vector had/has. We have over $30,000 in alignment fixtures and barrel press's. Why do you think people are getting such good accuracy and reliability out of the guns. I've only heard 1-2 reports of people having a fussy gun where everyone else has a shooter. The bottom line is, yes they could have made a very nice wall hanger/safe queen, but instead they made a kick ass shooter for a fraction of the price, take it for what it is.

quote:
Originally posted by gw11
allied armament

I am sorry if I offended you.

But if you have the Balls to set up Good Unknowing Fellow Falfiles Members about something that you built and promote, I Sir have the Balls to make light of this intended Sham.
By Century or by You a Sham is what this is.

If anyone still wishes to purchase one of these Rifles I believe I have posted enough info for them to make the necessary corrections to make your Garbage a little Better.

I do offer you One more Option!

Prove any of my comments about the defects of these guns your building as wrong and I will Willingly go away!

gw11

gw11
Veteran Member
Silver Contributor
FALaholic # 2731

November 01, 2009 18:12

Post #65

I don't know, This took ten minutes! Need more?

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=112901
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111676
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/showthre...t=111676&page=2
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=112827
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=113070
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=9&t=293910 Receiver spreading
http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tp...935/m/986107571
http://militaryfirearm.com/Forum/sh...?t=12104&page=4
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=109680
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=113517
http://www.militaryfirearm.com/Foru...ead.php?t=13983

gw11

Opie
Slayer of Goldfish
Contributor
FALaholic # 11730

November 01, 2009 18:28

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Post #66

quote:
Originally posted by W.E.G.

Put this in your pipe and smoke it.

and

Thanks Gary...That was extremely informative! Alwayse nice to learn something new!

allied armament
Member

FALaholic # 28093

November 01, 2009 20:35

Post #67

Gary

I want you to know I just wrote a huge love letter to Century telling them that they need to raise the headspace on the gun from .006-.012 to .014-.020 and to remove that rediculous weld from the front of the gun. If they listen, you won't ever have to complain again. I used your links below for reinforcement.

Thank You,

James M

quote:
Originally posted by gw11
I don't know, This took ten minutes! Need more?

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=112901
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111676
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/showthre...t=111676&page=2
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=112827
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=113070
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=9&t=293910 Receiver spreading
http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tp...935/m/986107571
http://militaryfirearm.com/Forum/sh...?t=12104&page=4
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=109680
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=113517
http://www.militaryfirearm.com/Foru...ead.php?t=13983

gw11

countyman
New Member

FALaholic # 38976

November 04, 2009 01:56

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Post #68

Allied Armament, PM sent.

quote:
Originally posted by allied armament
You're on the right track, used trunions, used locking piece, used carrier, used bolt. These are not new guns and its safer to set them middle range on a mass production schedule and for the most part its a cheap fix. +2 +4 rollers will greatly increase that gap. Also there is the proposition of buying a new locking piece or having the barrel pressed in further. The first two options obviously are the most cost effective and for $599, who cares

gw11
Veteran Member
Silver Contributor
FALaholic # 2731

November 05, 2009 02:08

Post #69

Nice to meet you James M.

George

allied armament
Member

FALaholic # 28093

November 05, 2009 03:51

Post #70

Its on honor George

. I hope we can get this resolved with Century, they still have not responded to me.

quote:
Originally posted by gw11
Nice to meet you James M.

George

Rudolf
Member

FALaholic # 7

November 11, 2009 17:59

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Post #71

for the money I think its worth it. The only thing needed is the mag flapper and then its good to go.

Once again, I thank James for bringing another .223 option into the market for cheap.

maxhush
Member

FALaholic # 42143

November 11, 2009 18:44

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Post #72

quote:
Originally posted by allied armament
Its on honor George . I hope we can get this resolved with Century, they still have not responded to me.

Do you have a non-compete agreement with Century? What's to keep you from making and marketing your own made the right way?

Last edited by maxhush on November 16, 2009 at 22:11

allied armament
Member

FALaholic # 28093

November 11, 2009 20:01

Post #73

We are on a non compete agreement, and at the prices they can sell them for I wouldn't want to compete. I truly believe for the money you can't find a better deal. All the range reports i've been reading lately have been nothing but positive. However, we are going to make and sell our own HK53. Most likely this will be in pistol form and sold through Atlantic Firearms. Keep your eyes peeled for it. It should be very affordable and a top notch weapon

andresere
Master of Gunnery
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FALaholic # 6598

November 19, 2009 02:41

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Post #74

quote:
Originally posted by mp

Gonna have to call BS on this one. I build FAL's with used parts, but I don't try install a locking shoulder that gives me anything but the proper headspace. I know they are not the same weapon system, but I have never heard of any assembly that involves "guessing" the future headspace.

mp, correct me if I am wrong, but it would seem that comparing the two rifles in the aspect of how you get correct headspace is apples and oranges. FAL- 3 gauges, G3-CETME-C93...a set of feeler guages. Does this make sense to you, because it does to me. I guess BLUF is with the FAL, it's either right or it's wrong. With the other rifles, there is a whole lot more wiggle room. I can understand that if you were to put NIW parts into a used parts kit you could very well exceed the .020 threshold.

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gw11
Veteran Member
Silver Contributor
FALaholic # 2731

November 19, 2009 10:00

Post #75

andresere

Or you could pay additional funds for and install all new parts and change the Bolt Gap by .005" or Less? So what have you gained?

If you had a New Bolt [$280.00 -$295.00] to replace a used bolt with .001" to .003" wear at the forward contact surface of the Rollers [which is common] you may gain .0035"-.0095" is gap.
If you replace a worn Locking Piece [$80.00- $95.00] you may gain [usually] .003" - .005" Gap.

And if you happen go over .020" you could always use "Minus 2 or Minus 4 Rollers for another $14.00 ea.

So if purchasing a "Used Parts" New Build 93 for $599.00 with an intended Gap of .005" - .008" that will lower after a hundred rounds too .004" or Less in an attempt to duplicate a Used Gun, that also [by chance] duplicates a Worn out gun that has already Fired 18,000-20,000 rounds, on the premise that you can always spend another $400 or so on to make it right, is what you need to do to float Your Boat, then by all means go there!.

Don't forget to have Fun!

gw11

andresere
Master of Gunnery
Bronze Contributor
FALaholic # 6598

November 19, 2009 13:39

Post #76

I don't have a dog in this fight, I was just asking a question. The only weapon I have like this is a CETME, and it took some work to undo what Century did. It works great now.

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84SS
Member

FALaholic # 7640

December 14, 2009 23:23

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Post #77

''Century spec'' a load of BS. I watched the threads and thought the quality was good and maybe Century was having someone build a gun correctly for a change. C930026x was bought from Classic arms a month ago and what a letdown.Finish is a black parkerizing.Mag well was wavy and had small stress cracks in the front corners from forming/expanding and numerous sharp edges which required file dressing . Headspace was initially .007 .a set of + 4 rollers have it up to .012. that is the only fix for the headspace I forsee. It functions but you cannot have the trunion and barrel reset because someone specified the trunion be welded to the receiver lip. I am the owner of a $800 dollar disposable rifle.Century built guns are a gamble , I shot craps and got a turd.I would prefer to have a chance to hand pick my turd if they can get it right.(Headspace& non welded trunion to receiver)

frtyfivsevnty
Stuck in NY

FALaholic # 6367

December 15, 2009 14:54

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Post #78

Personally I'd spend the extra$ for a quality built gun.

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allied armament
Member

FALaholic # 28093

December 15, 2009 16:29

Post #79

You paid $800, why didn't you buy it from Aim 599$ plus $7 shipping. The trunion is truly the issue, in my opinion. I really hate how they specified to have it welded the way they did, but in all honesty how many times have you seen someone remove and replace a trunion?? I'd say its about as rare as getting bit by a shark or struck by lightning. Are you really going to blow 20,000 rounds through your gun? if so than you will have spent $7000 on ammo, at that point the cost of $606 is almost irrelevant. Trust me on this if you really wanted to remove and replace the trunion, a person could do it with a small grinder and welder.

quote:
Originally posted by 84SS
''Century spec'' a load of BS. I watched the threads and thought the quality was good and maybe Century was having someone build a gun correctly for a change. C930026x was bought from Classic arms a month ago and what a letdown.Finish is a black parkerizing.Mag well was wavy and had small stress cracks in the front corners from forming/expanding and numerous sharp edges which required file dressing . Headspace was initially .007 .a set of + 4 rollers have it up to .012. that is the only fix for the headspace I forsee. It functions but you cannot have the trunion and barrel reset because someone specified the trunion be welded to the receiver lip. I am the owner of a $800 dollar disposable rifle.Century built guns are a gamble , I shot craps and got a turd.I would prefer to have a chance to hand pick my turd if they can get it right.(Headspace& non welded trunion to receiver)

Last edited by allied armament on December 15, 2009 at 16:34

FranzLiebkind
Member

FALaholic # 6825

December 16, 2009 21:27

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Post #80

Just so everyone knows, how do we KNOW we're getting one of your builds? Do you have serial number ranges etc. that will tip us off?

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B Wood
Crusty Old Fart
Contributor
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December 17, 2009 01:37

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Post #81

I WAS ready to buy a 93 Century until I read this thread. They had a few at my local store.....but cannot stand Century specifying BS specs. They screwed up their galils in a similar fashion.

Will have to pass.

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allied armament
Member

FALaholic # 28093

December 17, 2009 02:38

Post #82

Check with Aim surplus or Atlantic, Atlantic firearms can verify with me if it is one of our serials.

quote:
Originally posted by FranzLiebkind
Just so everyone knows, how do we KNOW we're getting one of your builds? Do you have serial number ranges etc. that will tip us off?

mp
Government Trained Killer

FALaholic # 654

December 17, 2009 03:51

Post #83

Atlantic will not remove one from the package. Can you divulge your SN series?

allied armament
Member

FALaholic # 28093

December 17, 2009 07:23

Post #84

i really can't, plus the list is quite large.

Roger Nuss
New Member

FALaholic # 30215

December 18, 2009 00:09

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Post #85

I'm hearing there are two companies producing the C93s for Century. Allied I'm aware of but anyone know the other?

Old Sarge
Senior Member
Contributor
FALaholic # 3030

December 18, 2009 00:12

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Post #86

I rolled the dice and bought one from Aim. It was one of the Allied built ones.

Old Sarge

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Timber Wolf
Veteran Member

FALaholic # 805

December 22, 2009 21:16

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Post #87

quote:
Originally posted by Old Sarge
I rolled the dice and bought one from Aim. It was one of the Allied built ones.

Old Sarge

How is it marked?

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allied armament
Member

FALaholic # 28093

December 22, 2009 23:32

Post #88

Century, Allied and one other that I don't know who it is.

quote:
Originally posted by Roger Nuss
I'm hearing there are two companies producing the C93s for Century. Allied I'm aware of but anyone know the other?

Old Sarge
Senior Member
Contributor
FALaholic # 3030

December 23, 2009 00:05

Post #89

quote:
Originally posted by Timber Wolf

How is it marked?

Standard markings. I sent the Sn# off in an E-mail to them. They confirmed that its one they built.

I will post up a full report once I get it cleaned and out to the range.

Old Sarge

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