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Old August 17, 2017, 19:00   #1
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UH OH, this can't be good

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Yes… it’s true. Two state of the art nuclear power projects bankrupted the mighty Westinghouse Electric Corporation, a company founded in 1886. Actually, this is old news as Westinghouse filed for bankruptcy back in March 2017. However, the breaking news is that the Westinghouse bankruptcy has now forced two utility companies to stop construction on two nuclear power reactors in South Carolina.
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Old August 17, 2017, 19:43   #2
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Why are they still building those fugging things? Like they've figured out how to neutralizethe waste? Yeah,right. Air conditioning today ,and centuries of dealing with the waste.
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Old August 18, 2017, 10:05   #3
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Why are they still building those fugging things? Like they've figured out how to neutralizethe waste? Yeah,right. Air conditioning today ,and centuries of dealing with the waste.
We still operate oil/gas fired plants. Those just dump waste into the air, you just don't see it pile up. Ever seen the waste from a coal plant? As to waste per KW, nuke beats them all. Most of the problem with nuke waste is excessive fed regulation. Solutions have been identified, but the regulation makes anything impossible.

Renewable? Solar and wind are not dependable and have to be fully backed up by another fully capable fossil fuel plant. Redundant much?

Hydro is the only option that doesn't have outage periods. But, between regulations limiting use and the vast power needs of the country, it can only provide a very small portion of power used.
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Old August 24, 2017, 15:50   #4
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We can deal with coal cinders. Gas plants burn pretty clean. I'd like to see more hydro-electric. And more wind energy,but at individual homes level. I am surrounded by the big turbines,but they pose no benefit for me. That power is sent to points far from me.
Nuke waste is forever.
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Old August 24, 2017, 18:11   #5
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The problem with nuke waste is the State of Nevada doesn't want to house it. We've dumped billions down a deep hole in the Yucca Mountains of Nevada that was supposed to be a repository for all the spent nuclear fuel - but the Nevadians don't want it there.

The Feds need to cut the bullshit and come up with a different location. If they can get out of their own way, we'd have a "solution" to the spent fuel issue.

Threads like this make me wish L Haney was still around.
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Old August 24, 2017, 21:38   #6
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Yeah,

DOE report out this week says that nat gas plants have been the biggest reason nuke and coal plants have been closing. Initial capital investments are cheaper with nat gas and the fuel is cheapest.

Made a big stink about renewables dont help the grid reliability.

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Old August 24, 2017, 21:51   #7
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This is good news for Arizona, Californy buys lots of electricity from AZ

Whats wrong with using more solar energy?

We should learn how to clean up after nuclear plants before more get built
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Old August 24, 2017, 23:51   #8
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Nuclear waste is over hyped. The isotopes with a really long half life aren't very radioactive. Shielding is not hard. If we took our skirts off we could use a lot of the waste in breeder reactors and make a lot of the worst stuff go away.
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Old August 25, 2017, 12:50   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STG_58_guy View Post
Nuclear waste is over hyped. The isotopes with a really long half life aren't very radioactive. Shielding is not hard. If we took our skirts off we could use a lot of the waste in breeder reactors and make a lot of the worst stuff go away.
By and large, true. BTW nice sigline.
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Old August 26, 2017, 00:02   #10
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Nuclear waste is over hyped. The isotopes with a really long half life aren't very radioactive. Shielding is not hard. If we took our skirts off we could use a lot of the waste in breeder reactors and make a lot of the worst stuff go away.
Tell that to Fukushima
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Old August 26, 2017, 08:39   #11
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The problem with nuke waste is the State of Nevada doesn't want to house it. We've dumped billions down a deep hole in the Yucca Mountains of Nevada that was supposed to be a repository for all the spent nuclear fuel - but the Nevadians don't want it there.

The Feds need to cut the bullshit and come up with a different location. If they can get out of their own way, we'd have a "solution" to the spent fuel issue.

Threads like this make me wish L Haney was still around.
That's kinda ironic considering most of the uranium is mined there.
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Old August 26, 2017, 10:00   #12
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Safe and environmentally "friendly" nuclear reactor designs have been around for a long time.

For instance, one type of breeder design uses spent fuel rods from conventional plants to both operate and create new fissionable material for conventional reactors.

Another feature of this type of reactor is that they are self-dampening in case of malfunction - no more nuclear meltdown.

Why isn't this type of design being used? The usual subjects are at play, IMHO.
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Old August 27, 2017, 08:06   #13
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Originally Posted by billdeserthills View Post
Tell that to Fukushima
Not my fault they are using ancient technology nuclear reactors... like everyone else.

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Safe and environmentally "friendly" nuclear reactor designs have been around for a long time.

For instance, one type of breeder design uses spent fuel rods from conventional plants to both operate and create new fissionable material for conventional reactors.

Another feature of this type of reactor is that they are self-dampening in case of malfunction - no more nuclear meltdown.

Why isn't this type of design being used? The usual subjects are at play, IMHO.
If I do remember, they tested that reactor by going full power then disabling all the safety systems and then cutting the cooling. And the reactor went to safe mode. Which led to, if I am not wrong, to the DOE to cancel/outlaw any further research in that design.

Meanwhile we are using a reactor design from the dark ages that everyone knows is inherently unsafe but some navy guy lobbied to have that as the standard design. Sounds like a winner!

Fun fact: most of the electricity in France is still nuclear. I think the last accident they had was some protester who decided to do a sit-in on the railroad tracks for the train hauling the waste away. Let's say train won.

On the same note, does anyone have a link to the Nuke bad Sun Good posters and handouts from the 70s that were sponsored (as in you could see it in small letters) by the oil/coal industry? I've seen it online once but never found it again; all I remember is the cute happy sun on it.
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Old August 27, 2017, 09:45   #14
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(Reuters) - Toshiba Corp has agreed to pay $2.168 billion to walk away from two unfinished nuclear reactors in South Carolina being built by its Westinghouse subsidiary, according to a statement by the owners of project.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-t...-idUSKBN1AC3DN

Westinghouse is owned by Toshiba. These two projects are enough to cause great pain to Toshiba. As in poof 6 billion gone. One of the results mentioned in the article is that Toshiba is looking to sell a profitable semiconductor company to raise funds.

I have even seen effects personally - Toshiba was not invited to bid on three large 4160V VFDs for a plant we are expanding.
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Old August 27, 2017, 13:49   #15
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IIRC, the official reason for shutting down research on safe breeders was that the fuel they created contained "too much" radionuclide material that could potentially be weaponized. Forget the fact that the complex chemistry needed to separate the "weapon" grade fissiles from the non-weapon grade would likely keep purity concerns above all others.
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Old August 29, 2017, 19:22   #16
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Drove by the huge Westinghouse Campus in Pittsburgh recently.

Vacant, devoid of activity; closed down.
Research for the Manhattan project was done there many years ago.
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Old August 30, 2017, 20:00   #17
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Tell that to Fukushima
I was thinking the same thing. Nuclear power is great as long as nothing goes wrong.
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Old August 30, 2017, 21:55   #18
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That's kinda ironic considering most of the uranium is mined there.
It might be ironic.... Except that it is most of the urainium mined in the US does not come from Nevada
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Old August 31, 2017, 05:42   #19
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I get the arguments against Yucca Mountain. Then again the question isn't so much 'is there risk involved with the YM repository', the question is 'is the YM repository a better option than leaving the crap in places like San Luis Obispo, Tacoma, Oswego, Philadelpia, etc etc in above ground swimming pools?

It's worth noting that these 'locals' have been all for the billions of construction dollars that have been spent to date on the repository and have only turned on this when the time has come to open the doors.
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Old September 15, 2017, 01:47   #20
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Nuclear is the future

People seem to forget that all of the Fukushima reactors withstood a 9.1 earthquake for 5 minutes, it withstood the largest tsunami in recorded history. The reason for it's failure is due to the emergency generators being placed where the tsunami flooded and disabled them. Once the plants were without power for a few hours, that's when the fun began. The Fukashima design was validated as reliable, safe and robust.

Carter banned breeder reactors thereby causing the spent nuke fuel problem we enjoy today. Coal is cheap but the emissions are huge in CO2 and mercury. The CO2 issue is the darling of the leftists who hate coal, but the downwind mercury contamination is horrific.

Don't forget that Clinton turned the largest bituminous coal reserve in the USA into a national park, WITHOUT even consulting with the Park Service. Two days after creating a new National Park, he signed a $10 billion dollar deal to import bituminous coal from Indonesia.

Renewable energy is nice as a side supply and more should be encouraged in local areas with wind, solar, hydro, but it will never supply an industrial nation. Everytime you hear some leftist talk about electric or hydrogen cars being the future, you know they're stupid or have an agenda to push their product. There is no such thing as a zero emission vehicle, it takes fossil fuel to power electric generation and it takes a tremendous amount of energy to produce hydrogen fuel. So you're trading local emissions for ones produced farther away.

Programs like Ethanol should be closed because it's a zero sum gain. It actually costs more energy to grow the corn and convert it to a crappy fuel, than energy we get out of the finished product. It should have been sugar beets instead of corn, it offers a 90% higher yield in usable energy than corn, with 1/4 of the water, but the farmers lobby wanted corn.

So now Trump has his foot on the gas (pun intended) encouraging the gas and oil industries to produce more for export. Natural gas is the best fossil fuel, followed by coal conversion to liquid gas but if anyone is serious, we should all be driving energy efficent cars that get 40-50 miles to the gallon.

Unfortunately the utilities are driven by shareholders to increase profits every year, so they have no reason to encourage saving a finite resource for future generations.
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Old September 15, 2017, 09:15   #21
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Not my fault they are using ancient technology nuclear reactors... like everyone else.



If I do remember, they tested that reactor by going full power then disabling all the safety systems and then cutting the cooling. And the reactor went to safe mode. Which led to, if I am not wrong, to the DOE to cancel/outlaw any further research in that design.

Meanwhile we are using a reactor design from the dark ages that everyone knows is inherently unsafe but some navy guy lobbied to have that as the standard design. Sounds like a winner!

Fun fact: most of the electricity in France is still nuclear. I think the last accident they had was some protester who decided to do a sit-in on the railroad tracks for the train hauling the waste away. Let's say train won.

On the same note, does anyone have a link to the Nuke bad Sun Good posters and handouts from the 70s that were sponsored (as in you could see it in small letters) by the oil/coal industry? I've seen it online once but never found it again; all I remember is the cute happy sun on it.
Many strange bedfellows out there...

Why has America actively tried to kill much of our rail infrastructure
think about it
it's by FAR the cheapest method to move shit.

Main reason is heavy pressure by certain lobbies, in particular the Teamsters
used to be near every little town had a train station. These days most of the spurs have been ripped up and the former rail beds turned into ATV trails.

Rail was superior to over the road trucking so rail had to go

I have a copy of one of the small posters you brought up. Not sure where it is. Junior High School teacher gave it to me, he knew I was a member of Green Peace. Seem to recall that fine print was some council on petroleum resources.

This all really came to a head when Carter was in the Whitehouse
Jimmy was rabid against Nuclear. I'm sure a few guys will remember how he covered the roof of the Whitehouse with solar electric panels...huge project.

Within days of his inaguration Reagan had them removed.

The "safe" reactors are known as "Pebble Bed" and they are in use. Germany, France, China, etc.
We just refuse to use them here.

Their greatest advocate in America was Lyndon LaRouche. Used to be technical articles in nearly every issue of his 21st Century Science & Technology magazine.

As far as renewable most folks just don't get it at all...those enormous wind plants we have scattered across the Midwest ?
When the blades ARE slowly turning, each of them still doesn't produce enough energy to power the typical American home.

and it gets far worse...
see in Minnesota the legislature mandated the a certain percentage of grid juice MUST be Green. That's why North Dakota is now covered with idiot Wind Farms
My Rural Electric bill used to be around $50+ a month
These days it's around $200.00
the cost of the Wind Farms was just passed down to consumers
I don't even have electric heating
a few friends who do have staggering electric bills during the heating season, some pay over a grand a month

One of the "solutions" was so-called Off Peak Heating
here's what happens...
When the power is at greatest demand they shut down your electric furnace
and when is it at Peak Demand ?
Why when it's the Coldest

This led to a few buddies having to install Pellet Stoves.

Me ?
I use LP and fill my huge tanks in the late summer. Come winter I shut most of my home down and keep the house around 50 degrees. Others are unable to do that with a Wife and youngsters in the house.

I'd say around a third of my County receives Cold Weather Assistance, basically a welfare grant to help cover winter heating costs. I don't bother with that however I qualify, most folks do. Some of my friends have a great income but couldn't make it through the winter without County assistance anymore all thanks to having to pay for North Dakota wind farms.

Idiot part is we have high lines bringing down cheap power from Canada just a few miles from me. That juice now gets redistributed to other States
Yeah I'm pissed and I'm not the only one. I am honestly damn close to taking Cold Weather assistance this year to get at least some of my money back from the State.

I figure State level political crap on energy costs me a couple grand a year over what it should be.
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Old September 28, 2017, 10:12   #22
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v

It might be ironic.... Except that it is most of the urainium mined in the US does not come from Nevada
oops...was reading an article a while back about Hillary selling the mining rights to Russians for Uranium in Arizona. Looks like Colorado/Wyo are king.

There are other sources that reactors can be built to exploit like Thorium.
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Old September 28, 2017, 21:17   #23
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The future of nuclear reactors will be using Thorium or maybe Pebble Bed reactors. The days of big nukes seem to be nearly at an end thanks to some accidents and recently the Fukushima tsunami mess in Japan.
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Old September 29, 2017, 18:50   #24
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Nuclear power is great .... but not in my backyard!
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