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Old September 14, 2018, 12:12   #1
Ethan909
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Genuine L1A1 considered C&R

Is there any reason why a LEO L1A1 imported by century in the 90s are not considered a C&R? I know the rifles are a grey area of legality, but in my mind it’s a semi auto rifle and nothing more. The rifle is over 50 years old so it is by definition a C&R?
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Old September 14, 2018, 12:17   #2
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BATF defines/determines CR status, alas, not you and me...or any other sensible folks...
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Old September 14, 2018, 12:30   #3
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Ok found on the ATF website.
“Firearms automatically attain C&R status when they are 50 years old. Any firearm that is at least 50 years old, and in its original configuration, would qualify as a C&R firearm. It is not necessary for such firearms to be listed in ATF's C&R list.”

So it IS a C&R
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Old September 14, 2018, 12:50   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan909 View Post
Ok found on the ATF website.
“Firearms automatically attain C&R status when they are 50 years old. Any firearm that is at least 50 years old, and in its original configuration, would qualify as a C&R firearm. It is not necessary for such firearms to be listed in ATF's C&R list.”

So it IS a C&R
Not necessarily, by that logic any pre-68 semi FAL is a C&R when in fact only Gs on the list have C&R status (as far as I know).

Best to stick to BATF’s published list.
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Old September 14, 2018, 13:23   #5
Ethan909
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A firearm does not need to be listed to be a C&R. Any FAL in its original configuration is a C&R.
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Old September 14, 2018, 13:25   #6
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A firearm does not need to be listed to be a C&R. Any FAL in its original configuration is a C&R.
You do you then...good luck with that. I hope you’re right just wouldn’t want to be tasked with arguing that in Federal court.
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Old September 14, 2018, 13:43   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VALMET View Post
Not necessarily, by that logic any pre-68 semi FAL is a C&R when in fact only Gs on the list have C&R status (as far as I know).
The sticking point is proving “any pre-68 semi FAL” is over 50 years old.
Does Fabrique Nation have date of production data based on serial number?
However, British and Australian L1A1s have the year of production on the receiver (regulated part). I have no issue acquiring or disposing of an L1A1 that is over 50 years old via type 03 FFL.
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Old September 14, 2018, 13:44   #8
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c&r is weird ..Ie some UZI are on it some are not the Bren 10 is and other not

I am guessing the parts gun are not really counted as orginal guns ..

Most of the more "modern gun" are on the list due to either being from a country that longer is around ie E german or being a rare or curiosity like some Bren 10s and UZI
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Old September 14, 2018, 13:46   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VALMET View Post
Not necessarily, by that logic any pre-68 semi FAL is a C&R when in fact only Gs on the list have C&R status (as far as I know).

Best to stick to BATF’s published list.
"Firearms automatically attain C&R status when they are 50 years old. Any firearm that is at least 50 years old, and in its original configuration, would qualify as a C&R firearm. It is not necessary for such firearms to be listed in ATF's C&R list."


https://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios-relics





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Old September 14, 2018, 13:48   #10
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Still not trying to argue that an LEO CAI L1A1 is a C&R in Federal court. But I’d truly like for OP to be right.

And if sear cut as some of them are that brings up a whole different question.
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Old September 14, 2018, 14:34   #11
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The upper receiver on a FAL / L1A1 is the "regulated" aka "gun" part, so if it was originally made before 1968, then there should not be a problem being a C&R. Most all parts kits are made with later receivers (See # 1 ), so tough luck on that. You could ask a friend that is a Museum Curator to help you (See # 2 ) The gray area is the # 3 reference (Who defines this?).

To be recognized as C&R items, 478.11 specifies that firearms must fall within one of the following categories:

1. Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas of such firearms;

2. Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and

3.Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event.
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Old September 14, 2018, 17:06   #12
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Wink

....and just which FAL receivers made before 1968 would fit your argument as available now in the United States for mythical C&R status??? The G Series listed guns; anything else from that era is a machine gun under other ATF regulation, so far. Now if you want to send your LEO in to ATF Tech Branch I have the address here somewhere. Given that the records and books on the LEO guns went up in the big "fire" at Century, and you can't prove anything other than possession on your LEO, no import provinance; you might have a hard time just hanging onto it altogether. Lesse, the letter goes something to the effect you may abandon to destruction of fight it out in court. That's still something I don't want to finance through a federal court system. Seen enough of the court system myself...I'm still on watch as an urban wild life killer due to the precipitous drop in the squirrel population in our neighborhood - something the judge found unacceptable, and they had video.
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Old September 16, 2018, 14:24   #13
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C & R

Per the ATF as in the people who get to decide ANY firearm over fifty years old is a C&R firearm. That does not mean any firearm over fifty years old is legal to own. A WWII era Thompson machine gun is a C&R weapon but still not legal to own unless it is registered on the NFA list. C&R status does not mean legal to own. The LEO L1A1 battle is a grey area as the original sale was restricted but latter resale was not. Does this make them a loophole firearm and legal to own? I am not convinced either way on this subject but as several have been sold thru major stores that I am aware of it does seem to be legal.
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