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Old June 08, 2019, 18:21   #201
Bawana jim
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Originally Posted by 2barearms View Post
People today are more concerned about being banned from twitter....more concerned about facebook being offline or the red box not having a favorite
movie.....freedom of speech isn't granted to you by some social media platform.
Freedom of Religion and Political free speech are rights not privilege on a dimmer switch. One thing many fail to recognize is the Declaration of Independence includes Life, Liberty and The Pursuit of Happiness.....maybe not
law but meaningful nonetheless.
Let's use kali as an example. Kali has a history of huge riots due to the division caused by politics. Kali has worked toward taking guns away while they import criminals and give them sanctuary. Joe Average gets no justice, it cost too much to live there and you can't own anything because government and thieves steal all they can from you.

Brown outs in the summer because the infistructure can't keep the power up. Roads so congested you spend hours on them to get to and from work. Communities divided into racial enclaves and prosperity only achieved if you fit in a special group.

Drugs and guns pouring over the border while US citizens are disarmed. The next riots will have a different outcome as kali takes a man's defenses away. The civil war may just be Hispanics taking kali back.
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Old June 08, 2019, 19:19   #202
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Most of us and that includes pretty much everyone that lived thru WW2 forward has never really experienced combat. The ones that did generally didn't talk about it much. So having said that....civil war which no one alive today witnessed would certainly change your drive to work in the morning. I personally believe the stress of wondering when the shit will hit a fan is worse than actually taking out our frustration with fighting the Long March
of the Left. I don't believe it would last long because most would starve to death rather being shot in a wild all out insurgency.

So no matter the circumstances it would be a bloody mess which would certainly drive the final wedge into place and form the basis for a Balkanized Amerika.
ignorance and apathy will always prevail.
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Old June 08, 2019, 19:26   #203
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Originally Posted by Bawana jim View Post
Let's use kali as an example. Kali has a history of huge riots due to the division caused by politics. Kali has worked toward taking guns away while they import criminals and give them sanctuary. Joe Average gets no justice, it cost too much to live there and you can't own anything because government and thieves steal all they can from you.

Brown outs in the summer because the infistructure can't keep the power up. Roads so congested you spend hours on them to get to and from work. Communities divided into racial enclaves and prosperity only achieved if you fit in a special group.

Drugs and guns pouring over the border while US citizens are disarmed. The next riots will have a different outcome as kali takes a man's defenses away. The civil war may just be Hispanics taking kali back.
California and Texas both are suffering Brown Outs......it isn't expensive for Browns to survive there and here because of all the free shit. Whites on the other hand have to support the theft of their property and income to be given
to that segment.
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Old June 08, 2019, 19:40   #204
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.... The civil war may just be Hispanics taking kali back.
why not?
sounds like a good plan to me.
especially since there is no viable alternative being put on the table.
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Old June 08, 2019, 20:37   #205
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Originally Posted by 2barearms View Post
Most of us and that includes pretty much everyone that lived thru WW2 forward has never really experienced combat. The ones that did generally didn't talk about it much. So having said that....civil war which no one alive today witnessed would certainly change your drive to work in the morning. I personally believe the stress of wondering when the shit will hit a fan is worse than actually taking out our frustration with fighting the Long March
of the Left. I don't believe it would last long because most would starve to death rather being shot in a wild all out insurgency.

So no matter the circumstances it would be a bloody mess which would certainly drive the final wedge into place and form the basis for a Balkanized Amerika.
We had 4 or 5 hundred thousand in SEA rotating on a 12 month schedule for a long time, another 500,000 in DS,,,another 500K plus in 2003, and G-D only knows how many rotating in and out of some hell hole since 1973.

The USA I'd offer, has as many combat vets today, alive, as at the end of WWII.

We've been fighting wars/conflicts=little wars forever since 1945.

Which is about stupid, if one thinks about them all.

I disagree, about concerns over war being worst than war itself, but, in this regard, I'm just an old retired combat medic.

Just my opinion, but civil war breaks out here in this country, it will quickly turn into an all out race war, the most deadly type, as well as, just a political war, the second most deadly type of conflict.

My first taste of war, was pulled out of training, assigned for a week, on an amputation ward(s), hundreds upon hundreds, all missing body parts lined up in bed after bed. This was just one hospital, we had dozens working back then, all full.

It only got far worst after that.
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Old June 08, 2019, 21:29   #206
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why not?
sounds like a good plan to me.
especially since there is no viable alternative being put on the table.
Easy enough, right now they are flooding kali and the border states with illegals. They can vote their way to power. All while the state taxes Americans in those states to support the illegals. They take our prosperity and use it to build a voting block that isn't even American. This is a non violent civil war where they rob you so you have no freedom to make choices.

It's a war by cancer of the culture and theft of prosperity. All of it legal under the law.
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Old June 08, 2019, 22:24   #207
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why not?
sounds like a good plan to me.
especially since there is no viable alternative being put on the table.
Why is that a 'good plan' ?

Despite CA being a leftist shithole now, they still produce a lot of foodstuffs and other items valuable to our economy.

Letting gdamn illegals seize control would be an economic disaster and put a serious hurt on our food supply, since the illegal dregs would quickly ruin everything Americans had built in the last 200 years.
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Old June 08, 2019, 22:59   #208
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Why is that a 'good plan' ?

Despite CA being a leftist shithole now, they still produce a lot of foodstuffs and other items valuable to our economy.

Letting gdamn illegals seize control would be an economic disaster and put a serious hurt on our food supply, since the illegal dregs would quickly ruin everything Americans had built in the last 200 years.
cost/benefit analysis shows that cortez had the right idea.

the yankees, not so much.


and as for your "illegal drugs", should not have been prohibited in the first place.

as is, title 1 prohibited substances are extremely valuable to the current economy-- the blue gang in particular.
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Old June 09, 2019, 01:27   #209
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Originally Posted by Bawana jim View Post
Let's use kali as an example. Kali has a history of huge riots due to the division caused by politics. Kali has worked toward taking guns away while they import criminals and give them sanctuary. Joe Average gets no justice, it cost too much to live there and you can't own anything because government and thieves steal all they can from you.

Brown outs in the summer because the infistructure can't keep the power up. Roads so congested you spend hours on them to get to and from work. Communities divided into racial enclaves and prosperity only achieved if you fit in a special group.

Drugs and guns pouring over the border while US citizens are disarmed. The next riots will have a different outcome as kali takes a man's defenses away. The civil war may just be Hispanics taking kali back.
The way Cali is thumbing it's nose at the US Govt about immigration,
they could try to secede from the USA like the southern states did
in 1860. Slavery was the main issue then and illegal immigration seems to
be the issue now. The problem is that if Cali goes, OR and WA will follow
and I live in OR.
Being retired, the older I get, the more vulnerable.
When the shit hits the fan, I am loading up the car and heading to ID.
Liberalism is not encouraged like it is on the West Coast. The storm
is coming. A Trump re-election in 2020 could be the trigger.

Spambo
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Old June 09, 2019, 05:42   #210
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...

So no matter the circumstances it would be a bloody mess which would certainly drive the final wedge into place and form the basis for a Balkanized Amerika.
The balkanization has already happened, it's here. For what it's worth civil wars do not balkanize anything, they simply affirm, where successful, a balkanization that occurred long ago.
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Old June 09, 2019, 06:32   #211
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We had 4 or 5 hundred thousand in SEA rotating on a 12 month schedule for a long time, another 500,000 in DS,,,another 500K plus in 2003, and G-D only knows how many rotating in and out of some hell hole since 1973.

The USA I'd offer, has as many combat vets today, alive, as at the end of WWII.

We've been fighting wars/conflicts=little wars forever since 1945.

Which is about stupid, if one thinks about them all.

I disagree, about concerns over war being worst than war itself, but, in this regard, I'm just an old retired combat medic.

Just my opinion, but civil war breaks out here in this country, it will quickly turn into an all out race war, the most deadly type, as well as, just a political war, the second most deadly type of conflict.

My first taste of war, was pulled out of training, assigned for a week, on an amputation ward(s), hundreds upon hundreds, all missing body parts lined up in bed after bed. This was just one hospital, we had dozens working back then, all full.

It only got far worst after that.
Well my friend, you bring this up quite a great deal but I hate to break it to you...quite a number of Vets are fringe Left, I'd say it's maybe 50/50 one way or the other.

I don't state this lightly either Paul
this comes from fifty odd years of observation
Some of the characters I schooled with went on to military post graduation and were hard core Obama and Hillary types, couple saw combat

When I was young I knew older folks who were great war or WWII vets that died loving up FDR, campaigned for Carter in the 70s

Most of my male teachers were WWII vets
every last one of them was a raging nutball Democrat in the 70s
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Old June 09, 2019, 08:03   #212
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Correct. I have a lot of vet clients, and half are lefties. My BIL, full bird post Nam, top of the list. Decorated fighter pilot Korea and nam, astronaut corps early on, The Right Stuff clique, total turn hard left.
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Old June 09, 2019, 08:06   #213
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...
Most of my male teachers were WWII vets
every last one of them was a raging nutball Democrat in the 70s
Every single one of 'em were teachers first and foremost, and it's fair to expect that raging nutball demoqueers will self-select into that profession. This is a pretty unique bunch and it's fair to say that they were not representative of the WWII vet population in general.

As to the WWII generation, these were folks who grew up in depression America and learned that food, sustenance, jobs, indeed life itself emanates from FedGov. It's their life experience, who they are.
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Old June 09, 2019, 08:10   #214
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Why is that a 'good plan' ?

Despite CA being a leftist shithole now, they still produce a lot of foodstuffs and other items valuable to our economy.

Letting gdamn illegals seize control would be an economic disaster and put a serious hurt on our food supply, since the illegal dregs would quickly ruin everything Americans had built in the last 200 years.
Yeah. Personally I think a better plan is to recolonize it. Shouldn't be too hard once the existing population is given ample time to starve themselves to death. Step one is gonna be to fence 'em in though, we don't need whatever disease it is that causes that sort of behavior to leak any further than it already has.
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Old June 09, 2019, 08:41   #215
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It wasn’t all that long ago, several elections, IIRC, where military absentee ballots got on the slow boat and didn’t make it stateside in time to get counted. It was feared at the time the massive conservative vote swing they would cause might damage the chances for a win for the “D”.

And I hate to sound like Juanni, but it didn’t really make that much difference in the grand scheme of things.
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Old June 09, 2019, 08:56   #216
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It wasn’t all that long ago, several elections, IIRC, where military absentee ballots got on the slow boat and didn’t make it stateside in time to get counted. It was feared at the time the massive conservative vote swing they would cause might damage the chances for a win for the “D”.

And I hate to sound like Juanni, but it didn’t really make that much difference in the grand scheme of things.
In the grand scheme of things it's the unelected beaurcrats that run the government. They know elections change the top but they will run the country the way they want. Things won't change just because we vote, it's the swamp that needs draining.
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Old June 09, 2019, 10:16   #217
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In the grand scheme of things it's the unelected beaurcrats that run the government. They know elections change the top but they will run the country the way they want. Things won't change just because we vote, it's the swamp that needs draining.
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Old June 09, 2019, 12:14   #218
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In the grand scheme of things it's the unelected beaurcrats that run the government. They know elections change the top but they will run the country the way they want. Things won't change just because we vote, it's the swamp that needs draining.
the pond scum also knows that there is no voting a way out of this.

and they know that most of the populace are oblivious to that reality,
either due to head up ass stupid, or else due to ignorance/apathy.

end result is the same either way.
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Old June 09, 2019, 12:17   #219
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the pond scum also knows that there is no voting a way out of this.

and they know that most of the populace are oblivious to that reality,
either due to head up ass stupid, or else due to ignorance/apathy.

end result is the same either way.
Most. But not as many as there were a short time ago. And more importantly the trend is not in their favor.
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Old June 09, 2019, 12:38   #220
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Well my friend, you bring this up quite a great deal but I hate to break it to you...quite a number of Vets are fringe Left, I'd say it's maybe 50/50 one way or the other.

I don't state this lightly either Paul
this comes from fifty odd years of observation
Some of the characters I schooled with went on to military post graduation and were hard core Obama and Hillary types, couple saw combat

When I was young I knew older folks who were great war or WWII vets that died loving up FDR, campaigned for Carter in the 70s

Most of my male teachers were WWII vets
every last one of them was a raging nutball Democrat in the 70s
Brother Jim, I bring up, often, that we have a lot of combat vets living today in this country,,,that's a very true statement.

I'm not aware though, where I ever offered an opinion on their political leaning, one direction nor the other.

Is it 50/50 as you state above?? I got no real data to support that one way or the other, none that I've read anywhere, might be correct, might be wrong, just have no real idea of the true polling/numbers/percentages of left or right leaning of combat vets.

If its true, your 50% assertion, then folks thinking a civil war breaking out inside this country might be a good thing, on any level,, might just wish to re-think that position,,,a lot.

Going up against "gun people",,folks that hit the range once a month, shoot at paper, run around in camy's, conduct drive by's, compete in three gun matches,, with no combat experience is one thing, going up against trained combat proven personnel is a whole other situation.

If, as you say, 50% of all combat vets in this country will be fighting on the "other side",,,me, I'd sue for peace terms before the first shot was fired in anger.

Anything breaks out in this country, in our streets, combat vets will be banning together quickly, why, to survive another day, protect their families, and they KNOW what in the hell they are doing.

And from personal experience, these vets won't be putting up with any shit either from anyone that's not fully trained and experienced.

Said another way,,2 yr olds make a lot of noise, talk a lot of shit, but when it comes time to ruck up and go kill some sob, well, lets just say, the 2 yr olds will be sent packing back to their bedrooms.
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Old June 09, 2019, 13:16   #221
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I must run in strange circles. I don't know a single combat vet that runs with the dems. I know some that voted for Obama but not a single one for Hillary. Most of the folks I know are SF types and they are fairly quite but when they do talk it isn't for the current crop of Demos.
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Old June 09, 2019, 23:01   #222
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Most. But not as many as there were a short time ago. And more importantly the trend is not in their favor.
yes and it rightly ought not be in their favor;

this comes down to use of force/counterforce--
the bolshie operating program is to take what they want by force;
they are not ever going to stop, their operating program will continue until ultimately stopped by counterforce.
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Old June 10, 2019, 02:46   #223
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yes and it rightly ought not be in their favor;

this comes down to use of force/counterforce--
the bolshie operating program is to take what they want by force;
they are not ever going to stop, their operating program will continue until ultimately stopped by counterforce.
The importance of this cannot be overstated. And it is the reason that trying to negotiate a path through this is a fool's errand. No deal is ever final with these creatures and no agreement can ever be made that will be kept. Indeed they view agreements as part of a strategy to win instead of a vehicle to allow coexistence. It is madness to even entertain such delusions once this truth is recognized.

You don't talk to rats. You leave rats alone as long as they stay outside. But when they get in the house you wipe 'em out to the last one. And you don't give it any more thought than that right there.
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Old June 10, 2019, 02:53   #224
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The importance of this cannot be overstated. And it is the reason that trying to negotiate a path through this is a fool's errand. No deal is ever final with these creatures and no agreement can ever be made that will be kept. Indeed they view agreements as part of a strategy to win instead of a vehicle to allow coexistence. It is madness to even entertain such delusions once this truth is recognized.

You don't talk to rats. You leave rats alone as long as they stay outside. But when they get in the house you wipe 'em out to the last one. And you don't give it any more thought than that right there.
These people will never leave the rest of us alone, that's for damn sure.

But, as listed below with the latest leftist to pass crazy shit,,,people,, normal folks simply are not complying, here in the USA and abroad,, and,there really is not a damned thing the leftist progressives can do, except cry crox tears.

https://www.libertynation.com/kiwis-...no-to-gun-ban/
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Old June 10, 2019, 06:50   #225
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These people will never leave the rest of us alone, that's for damn sure.

But, as listed below with the latest leftist to pass crazy shit,,,people,, normal folks simply are not complying, here in the USA and abroad,, and,there really is not a damned thing the leftist progressives can do, except cry crox tears.

https://www.libertynation.com/kiwis-...no-to-gun-ban/
So just like those folks in the NE that never registered their guns the NZ bunch are all criminals that have not been charged yet........
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Old June 10, 2019, 07:36   #226
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These people will never leave the rest of us alone, that's for damn sure.

But, as listed below with the latest leftist to pass crazy shit,,,people,, normal folks simply are not complying, here in the USA and abroad,, and,there really is not a damned thing the leftist progressives can do, except cry crox tears.

https://www.libertynation.com/kiwis-...no-to-gun-ban/
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So just like those folks in the NE that never registered their guns the NZ bunch are all criminals that have not been charged yet........
Yep. This way they can apply 'selective' enforcement, charge the people they want to. Ayn Rand wrote this into 'Atlas Shrugged' when Dr. Ferris famously stated, and I quote: " ...Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with.”

It's an old tactic. When you can define everyone as a criminal the laws become meaningless. This is what criminals do when they maneuver themselves into positions of power and it should surprise no one who pays attention.
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Old June 10, 2019, 08:22   #227
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I read a little on the Kali budget yesterday. They are taxing the folks billions for Healthcare for illegals. They are taxing the folks billions to have an emergency fund yet don't consider hundreds of thousands of Americans living in the streets as an emergency. Third world shit filled cities and the help goes to illegals. That might just lead to violence some day.
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Old June 10, 2019, 10:20   #228
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So just like those folks in the NE that never registered their guns the NZ bunch are all criminals that have not been charged yet........
Yes, but again,,,,with the police, sheriffs saying they will not enforce, and millions in non compliance,,,what will be done,,nothing, except as you noted, maybe an add on charge for booking on some other criminal offense.

"Selective charging" gets thrown out of court often by judges, as in,,if not enforced, judges, many of them, won't go down that route.

WE "gun nuts" "Constitutional people" will not be the driving force in making all this right, we simply don't have the numbers, it will be public driven by the general population at large, starting with simple non compliance.

Non compliance by the general population, is a very good step, but still a single step.

This "conflict" we find our selves in today, won't be resolved in any single event, will simmer, with small gains and small set backs before it blows up.
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Old June 10, 2019, 13:21   #229
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Yes, but again,,,,with the police, sheriffs saying they will not enforce, and millions in non compliance,,,what will be done,,nothing, except as you noted, maybe an add on charge for booking on some other criminal offense.

"Selective charging" gets thrown out of court often by judges, as in,,if not enforced, judges, many of them, won't go down that route.

WE "gun nuts" "Constitutional people" will not be the driving force in making all this right, we simply don't have the numbers, it will be public driven by the general population at large, starting with simple non compliance.

Non compliance by the general population, is a very good step, but still a single step.

This "conflict" we find our selves in today, won't be resolved in any single event, will simmer, with small gains and small set backs before it blows up.
Essentially not possible to predict what will trigger it, at least from where I'm sitting. One might say that General Beauregard would not have fired on Ft Sumpter if he was having a better week, as he seems to have done this on basically his own initiative. The point is that if he hadn't eventually someone else would have.

But the spark that triggers it is really unimportant and at this point any spark could start it. What matters is the reality that the guns are loaded and primed (so to speak), and how things came to be this way. In my view what has brought us here is, as has been said before, decades of compromise and retreat in the face of flagrantly unconstitutional actions together with the knowledge that this will not ever end of it's own accord.

Folks have been noncompliant with respect to handguns in New York State for going on 60 years now, and still the state has done nothing about it. I expect this model will extend into the malfeasance they have planned for us over the next 60, and the other side will be fine with this. Getting folks to accept selective enforcement is, after all, one of the goals. Although it remains to be seen how compliant folks will be when the cable gets cut off, they're hungry, out of beer and have to watch their neighbor get hauled off to prison for trying to feed the kids. That day will be an interesting one, and we likely are no more than one real screw up from it.
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Old June 10, 2019, 14:05   #230
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Essentially not possible to predict what will trigger it, at least from where I'm sitting. One might say that General Beauregard would not have fired on Ft Sumpter if he was having a better week, as he seems to have done this on basically his own initiative. The point is that if he hadn't eventually someone else would have.

But the spark that triggers it is really unimportant and at this point any spark could start it. What matters is the reality that the guns are loaded and primed (so to speak), and how things came to be this way. In my view what has brought us here is, as has been said before, decades of compromise and retreat in the face of flagrantly unconstitutional actions together with the knowledge that this will not ever end of it's own accord.

Folks have been noncompliant with respect to handguns in New York State for going on 60 years now, and still the state has done nothing about it. I expect this model will extend into the malfeasance they have planned for us over the next 60, and the other side will be fine with this. Getting folks to accept selective enforcement is, after all, one of the goals. Although it remains to be seen how compliant folks will be when the cable gets cut off, they're hungry, out of beer and have to watch their neighbor get hauled off to prison for trying to feed the kids. That day will be an interesting one, and we likely are no more than one real screw up from it.
Whatfinger has a video of a little gal, with a camerawoman filming crowds around a dimwit rally, that pete butt guy, and got attacked, pushed, stuff thrown at them for just being present, and being conservative by a father and son.

Doing this shit on film, for all to see, I suspect it won't be long before one of these leftist loons pulls a knife or gun, and small as this would be in a country of 300 million plus, something like this could ignite a real shooting war.

Every war, begins with the first round going down range, after that, they escalate out of all control.

The level of violence, these leftist loons are pushing, won't stand for much longer.

My guess, opinion, some conservative minding their own business, gets attacked by these leftist loons, pulls out a gun and kills a few of them, then the leftist gun up, and all hell just naturally breaks loose.

Would not take much to set it all off.
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Old June 10, 2019, 14:39   #231
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...what has brought us here is, as has been said before, decades of compromise and retreat in the face of flagrantly unconstitutional actions together with the knowledge that this will not ever end of it's own accord.....
yes,
that combined with the tacit acceptance/approval of that compromise with statist malfeasance compounded with headupass ignorance + apathy to cement the delivery.

one thing for sure, this time around it won't be settled by westpoint/vmi alums wearing blue n gray, shooting at each other in the woods.

we are looking at full on 4G warfare now.
starting with the metro areas, which are bioweapons of mass destruction in waiting--
turn off the EBT cards for a week, and the metros will burn.

frankly the metros are to blame, and deserve to burn.
after enough of them burn, then they will give up and submit to terms, or else be wiped out of existence.


until that time comes, the operating program of mass importation of low IQ illegal alien replacements will continue--the current soft purge of heretage identity trad americans.
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Old June 10, 2019, 15:24   #232
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Brother Jim, I bring up, often, that we have a lot of combat vets living today in this country,,,that's a very true statement.

I'm not aware though, where I ever offered an opinion on their political leaning, one direction nor the other.

Is it 50/50 as you state above?? I got no real data to support that one way or the other, none that I've read anywhere, might be correct, might be wrong, just have no real idea of the true polling/numbers/percentages of left or right leaning of combat vets.

If its true, your 50% assertion, then folks thinking a civil war breaking out inside this country might be a good thing, on any level,, might just wish to re-think that position,,,a lot.

Going up against "gun people",,folks that hit the range once a month, shoot at paper, run around in camy's, conduct drive by's, compete in three gun matches,, with no combat experience is one thing, going up against trained combat proven personnel is a whole other situation.

If, as you say, 50% of all combat vets in this country will be fighting on the "other side",,,me, I'd sue for peace terms before the first shot was fired in anger.

Anything breaks out in this country, in our streets, combat vets will be banning together quickly, why, to survive another day, protect their families, and they KNOW what in the hell they are doing.

And from personal experience, these vets won't be putting up with any shit either from anyone that's not fully trained and experienced.

Said another way,,2 yr olds make a lot of noise, talk a lot of shit, but when it comes time to ruck up and go kill some sob, well, lets just say, the 2 yr olds will be sent packing back to their bedrooms.
Yes 50/50 is a number I plucked out of thin air as it an unknown.

there is another great factor though
few folks that serve in the military are actually combat trained
I have read that during WWII it was roughly less than 20%

Okay, how can that be ?
Well you can remove most Naval other than the USMC and same with Air
Within the Army there are many MOS ratings that have zero to do with weapons
Armies need their truck drivers, cooks and garbage men, etc
most troops can do a 4 year stint and never fire a rifle outside basic

My first couple years in College I took up some ROTC courses as electives. The Prof was a great old guy, Korea Vet. Like he put it ffor every man actually being shot at there are at least 5 who are not riflemen supporting them in other ways.
Thing is the supply clerk who rode a desk in Saigon is still seen by most as a Combat Vet

Yeah, known a crap ton of Combat Vets who fought in Rifle Squads in various theaters and conflicts. Thing is few of them would be any more effective than a well seasoned Hunter, actually maybe less so when it comes to matters of field craft or stalking prey in what frankly would largely be a Guerilla War
Army guys just are not trained for that for the most part

Plenty of local Natives went full ground pounder, they were just naturally adept. One point always made to me was that the Red Man lifts his feet in the forest, White boys drag theirs making noise
yeah it's simple shit like that that gets you killed

A mess of todays troops are urban sourced, they shuffle along making noise
further, they were raised in City Think Paul, politically that's how their minds function.

Look at retired Combat Officers
many of them are totally anti RKBA
further, they are stuck in a military mindset of following commands from superiors. They see Laws the same way they see Orders and they do tend to be extremely statist thinkers in my experience

Guerilla movements are rarely the product of military training but rather plain old common sense in my opinion
case in point Rodger's Rangers contrasted to the Continetal Army during the Revolution. Same could be said of the Swamp Fox or later Jean LaFites Men at the Battle of New Orleans

Why was the CSA despite facing superior numbers of Federals able to remain effective ?
Lot of it had to do with the southern Hunting and rifle culture versus Yankee City boys
same thing that made Alvin York such a dangerous Man during the Great War
just saying friend

As far as compliance I tell folks again and again and again in general Americans don't comply, it's in our very nature to resist
You saw it in Prohibition, you see it in the War on Drugs & it's extremely visible against Gun Control efforts
We as a people are wired differently

It's comical
Progressives push certain laws reckoning America will abide by them
Conservatives do the same

both extremes are dumbfounded when people just ignore other people imposing their wills upon them.
the thread of TX raising the smoking age is a great example
now adult Texicans have to wait three extra years to legally burn a grit
does anyone really think this will stop a 20 year old from burning one ?

You linked up that piece on how few guns have been turned in down in NZ
it was the same in OZ by the way
no one is really turning in bump stocks here either
and if a silly stock is now NFA why not drill an extra hole in your AR or AK huh'...
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Old June 10, 2019, 15:48   #233
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Yes 50/50 is a number I plucked out of thin air as it an unknown.

there is another great factor though
few folks that serve in the military are actually combat trained
I have read that during WWII it was roughly less than 20%

Okay, how can that be ?
Well you can remove most Naval other than the USMC and same with Air
Within the Army there are many MOS ratings that have zero to do with weapons
Armies need their truck drivers, cooks and garbage men, etc
most troops can do a 4 year stint and never fire a rifle outside basic

My first couple years in College I took up some ROTC courses as electives. The Prof was a great old guy, Korea Vet. Like he put it ffor every man actually being shot at there are at least 5 who are not riflemen supporting them in other ways.
Thing is the supply clerk who rode a desk in Saigon is still seen by most as a Combat Vet

Yeah, known a crap ton of Combat Vets who fought in Rifle Squads in various theaters and conflicts. Thing is few of them would be any more effective than a well seasoned Hunter, actually maybe less so when it comes to matters of field craft or stalking prey in what frankly would largely be a Guerilla War
Army guys just are not trained for that for the most part

Plenty of local Natives went full ground pounder, they were just naturally adept. One point always made to me was that the Red Man lifts his feet in the forest, White boys drag theirs making noise
yeah it's simple shit like that that gets you killed

A mess of todays troops are urban sourced, they shuffle along making noise
further, they were raised in City Think Paul, politically that's how their minds function.

Look at retired Combat Officers
many of them are totally anti RKBA
further, they are stuck in a military mindset of following commands from superiors. They see Laws the same way they see Orders and they do tend to be extremely statist thinkers in my experience

Guerilla movements are rarely the product of military training but rather plain old common sense in my opinion
case in point Rodger's Rangers contrasted to the Continetal Army during the Revolution. Same could be said of the Swamp Fox or later Jean LaFites Men at the Battle of New Orleans

Why was the CSA despite facing superior numbers of Federals able to remain effective ?
Lot of it had to do with the southern Hunting and rifle culture versus Yankee City boys
same thing that made Alvin York such a dangerous Man during the Great War
just saying friend

As far as compliance I tell folks again and again and again in general Americans don't comply, it's in our very nature to resist
You saw it in Prohibition, you see it in the War on Drugs & it's extremely visible against Gun Control efforts
We as a people are wired differently

It's comical
Progressives push certain laws reckoning America will abide by them
Conservatives do the same

both extremes are dumbfounded when people just ignore other people imposing their wills upon them.
the thread of TX raising the smoking age is a great example
now adult Texicans have to wait three extra years to legally burn a grit
does anyone really think this will stop a 20 year old from burning one ?

You linked up that piece on how few guns have been turned in down in NZ
it was the same in OZ by the way
no one is really turning in bump stocks here either
and if a silly stock is now NFA why not drill an extra hole in your AR or AK huh'...
What you and many other people miss about trained combat troops, regardless if they were "rambo" types or not,,,trained troops, understand how to come together, take orders, follow directions, accept authority, work as a team, etc.

This country is full of rugged individuals, that can shoot, own weapons,,,,,,,,,,,,,but trying to get them to do the above,,,would be damned near impossible,,,without 8 to 10 weeks of intensive training, and being "older" for the most part, I'd expect 50% or better, would never be worth a damn working on a team anything.

A truth,,,its takes 10/15 yrs to produce a decent combat leader.

All these people, that truly believe, they can shorten that time frame to an hour or two, in a shooting situation, are simply delusional.

People buy all sorts of medical gear, read books, watch videos, might even take a red cross class, even become an EMT.

You want one of them working on you or your loved ones in a real extended shooting event/civil war,,,or a highly trained and direct combat experienced combat medic???

I'm lucky here in my AO.
I have four highly trained combat commanders, people that worked at the plt up through brigade level in all sorts of combat situations.
People like me, will follow them, work as a team member.
I won't place my life into the hands of non trained and nor highly experience people in the best of times, much less the worst of times.

My advice, for what its worth, if anyone is really concerned about surviving a shooting war,,,locate in your area, some Ranger, Airborne, SF, etc type, then make friends with them.
Bad times occur, do what they do, do what they tell you to do, until you can learn to take care of yourself.
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Old June 10, 2019, 16:29   #234
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...
after enough of them burn, then they will give up and submit to terms, or else be wiped out of existence.


until that time comes, the operating program of mass importation of low IQ illegal alien replacements will continue--the current soft purge of heretage identity trad americans.
Personally I don't think they would ever honor any terms, to do so first of all takes honor and they have none. Terms might be forced on 'em but that would be forever and result in a situation the Izzies find themselves in with the Palis. If they were in the business of honoring agreements we would not find ourselves where we do today.

I could be wrong though but color me skeptical. If we must deliver terms then let it be something that won't take a lot of resources to police. Like reducing them to a stone-age existence.
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Old June 10, 2019, 17:28   #235
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What you and many other people miss about trained combat troops, regardless if they were "rambo" types or not,,,trained troops, understand how to come together, take orders, follow directions, accept authority, work as a team, etc.

This country is full of rugged individuals, that can shoot, own weapons,,,,,,,,,,,,,but trying to get them to do the above,,,would be damned near impossible,,,without 8 to 10 weeks of intensive training, and being "older" for the most part, I'd expect 50% or better, would never be worth a damn working on a team anything.

A truth,,,its takes 10/15 yrs to produce a decent combat leader.

All these people, that truly believe, they can shorten that time frame to an hour or two, in a shooting situation, are simply delusional.

People buy all sorts of medical gear, read books, watch videos, might even take a red cross class, even become an EMT.

You want one of them working on you or your loved ones in a real extended shooting event/civil war,,,or a highly trained and direct combat experienced combat medic???

I'm lucky here in my AO.
I have four highly trained combat commanders, people that worked at the plt up through brigade level in all sorts of combat situations.
People like me, will follow them, work as a team member.
I won't place my life into the hands of non trained and nor highly experience people in the best of times, much less the worst of times.

My advice, for what its worth, if anyone is really concerned about surviving a shooting war,,,locate in your area, some Ranger, Airborne, SF, etc type, then make friends with them.
Bad times occur, do what they do, do what they tell you to do, until you can learn to take care of yourself.
I disagree with little of that but qualified types are few and far between Paul
I know of only two former SpecOps types in my County, both are terrible drunks, one is an Ex Con now.

One buddy here is a former SAC guy, he was running the teams that guarded nuke bases and war head transport...about as high level of combat training as you could hope to achieve.
Both of us have had these convos, his point was his knowledge base was all theoretical as no one ever fired at him or his Men. Figures up here the best bet would be the guys you hunt with, yeah your Hunting party
He doesn't have a very high level of opinion for your way of thinking

One point that came up was my old comments that everything is situational

Okay you have a Man trained and bathed in blood in the sands and rock of the Sandbox
sure, that can transilate well to Arizona but that same person will be lost in the swamps of Northern MN
How well does experience as a Jungle fighter crossover to fighting in the Great Plains or Pine Forest during the dead of winter...
it don't at all
Tell you what, you can pick your best Men from AZ. I'll pick somewhere to drop them off up here and we will see how quick they call back to be rescued
A decade of leadership training means nothing if you have no combat background in a similar locale
that too can get you dead fast thinking a desert fighter can be an effective leader in say the Everglades. That's why the Army lost the Seminole Wars
West Point training didn't apply Paul
had a great deal to do with our losses in SE Asia
just too many Officers trained to fight a European War, not a Jungle one.

Combat medics
Well they are there not to heal but to sustain life until doctors get to them
In a Guerilla War that rarely happens
So let's look at a civil insurrection today. You get clipped by a 5.56 or .308 as an insurgent you will most likely die if it's in the body itself even if it's stopped by the best of armor.
on top of that, most will go into shock as insurgents won't have decent trauma meds for pain

That's why I roll my eyes at preppers
you better have some high level opiods on hand or be prepared to raid a hospital and know administration of the compound

Surgical procedure isn't too hard, sterile conditions and meds are
I'm competent enough with scalpel and suture to handle basic things on my own and have many times
nothing all that mystical about it my friend

anyways while I agree it takes years to create an effective military leader the thing is we are not talking army in an insurgency, ie a Civil War
we are talking factions fractionalized into different mindsets but mostly with a goal of being left the fukk alone.

In that I tend to largely view military minds as a threat to natural Liberty
during a Civil War they will become thugs
I see it playing out somewhat like The Postman with a few groups going Warlord regionally like the Holenest in that movie. Some areas the local Chief of Police or Sheriff will be the culprit, in others the National Guard or reservists rising into local despots eventually leading to the oppressed shooting them square in the face Paul.

Urban areas will become modern DaNangs
attempts to pacify the Ghetto will end poorly in America. This isn't Warsaw.
while you and others see it as a probable Race War I don't
Blacks tend to murder other Blacks, same with Latinos and Whites

To be absolutely frank, I don't see any of this ever coming to pass short of the Comet impacting the planet or a Super Volcano
if that ever occurs you best have a band of merry Men to seize shit
You start with weapons depots and fuel then take food supply, pharma and comm.
gotta go all Warlord on everyone's asses just to save you and yours

this prepper fortress of solitude bunk is for the birds
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Old June 10, 2019, 18:05   #236
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I disagree with little of that but qualified types are few and far between Paul
I know of only two former SpecOps types in my County, both are terrible drunks, one is an Ex Con now.

One buddy here is a former SAC guy, he was running the teams that guarded nuke bases and war head transport...about as high level of combat training as you could hope to achieve.
Both of us have had these convos, his point was his knowledge base was all theoretical as no one ever fired at him or his Men. Figures up here the best bet would be the guys you hunt with, yeah your Hunting party
He doesn't have a very high level of opinion for your way of thinking

One point that came up was my old comments that everything is situational

Okay you have a Man trained and bathed in blood in the sands and rock of the Sandbox
sure, that can transilate well to Arizona but that same person will be lost in the swamps of Northern MN
How well does experience as a Jungle fighter crossover to fighting in the Great Plains or Pine Forest during the dead of winter...
it don't at all
Tell you what, you can pick your best Men from AZ. I'll pick somewhere to drop them off up here and we will see how quick they call back to be rescued
A decade of leadership training means nothing if you have no combat background in a similar locale
that too can get you dead fast thinking a desert fighter can be an effective leader in say the Everglades. That's why the Army lost the Seminole Wars
West Point training didn't apply Paul
had a great deal to do with our losses in SE Asia
just too many Officers trained to fight a European War, not a Jungle one.

Combat medics
Well they are there not to heal but to sustain life until doctors get to them
In a Guerilla War that rarely happens
So let's look at a civil insurrection today. You get clipped by a 5.56 or .308 as an insurgent you will most likely die if it's in the body itself even if it's stopped by the best of armor.
on top of that, most will go into shock as insurgents won't have decent trauma meds for pain

That's why I roll my eyes at preppers
you better have some high level opiods on hand or be prepared to raid a hospital and know administration of the compound

Surgical procedure isn't too hard, sterile conditions and meds are
I'm competent enough with scalpel and suture to handle basic things on my own and have many times
nothing all that mystical about it my friend

anyways while I agree it takes years to create an effective military leader the thing is we are not talking army in an insurgency, ie a Civil War
we are talking factions fractionalized into different mindsets but mostly with a goal of being left the fukk alone.

In that I tend to largely view military minds as a threat to natural Liberty
during a Civil War they will become thugs
I see it playing out somewhat like The Postman with a few groups going Warlord regionally like the Holenest in that movie. Some areas the local Chief of Police or Sheriff will be the culprit, in others the National Guard or reservists rising into local despots eventually leading to the oppressed shooting them square in the face Paul.

Urban areas will become modern DaNangs
attempts to pacify the Ghetto will end poorly in America. This isn't Warsaw.
while you and others see it as a probable Race War I don't
Blacks tend to murder other Blacks, same with Latinos and Whites

To be absolutely frank, I don't see any of this ever coming to pass short of the Comet impacting the planet or a Super Volcano
if that ever occurs you best have a band of merry Men to seize shit
You start with weapons depots and fuel then take food supply, pharma and comm.
gotta go all Warlord on everyone's asses just to save you and yours

this prepper fortress of solitude bunk is for the birds
We agree on some points and disagree on others.

As for, if things ever falling apart completely, NROL nation wide, agree it ain't happening without A BFR falling from the sky or Yellowstone erupts in a full meltdown, or something along those lines, like full on pandemic, with a 90% death rate, etc.

We have a far greater danger facing us all, from a lot of extra rain hitting the center of the country, resulting in some food shortages, than this government, that can't really do shit but talk endlessly.
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Old June 10, 2019, 18:16   #237
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Personally I don't think they would ever honor any terms, to do so first of all takes honor and they have none. Terms might be forced on 'em but that would be forever and result in a situation the Izzies find themselves in with the Palis. If they were in the business of honoring agreements we would not find ourselves where we do today.

I could be wrong though but color me skeptical. If we must deliver terms then let it be something that won't take a lot of resources to police. Like reducing them to a stone-age existence.
yes,
which is why "terms" means metro rats accepting articles of surrender, submit to rule of law with equal standing before the law for all, as written and intended,
as the alternative to destruction.

like you pointed out before, there is one and only one answer for dealing with rat infestations.
the same goes for dealing with statist collectives.
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Old June 10, 2019, 18:43   #238
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Originally Posted by yellowhand View Post
We agree on some points and disagree on others.

As for, if things ever falling apart completely, NROL nation wide, agree it ain't happening without A BFR falling from the sky or Yellowstone erupts in a full meltdown, or something along those lines, like full on pandemic, with a 90% death rate, etc.

We have a far greater danger facing us all, from a lot of extra rain hitting the center of the country, resulting in some food shortages, than this government, that can't really do shit but talk endlessly.
Pandemics

I can take you to a variety of Ghost Towns in the upper plains
I'm into graveyards as they tell stories Paul
some rural towns up here vanished during the Spanish Flu
nothing left but a huge church and graveyard populated by 100s who perished from the flu.

I used to take younger folks to these places, make them read the markers and dates...blew their minds
really messed them up when I'd show them a plat of the community from the early 1900s. These were sizable towns and all that's left now is a huge Church made of brick or stone.
they would become somber as it sunk in Paul
particularly after I pointed out how isolated these communities were and how fast disease can expand these days

sure we disagree on things
I'm good with all that

Part of our issues is you see Mil as instilling a life long value system
I don't
American prisons are packed with Vets who raped, robbed and murdered
I see service as a Job one had
professions in no way define a Man as Human Paul
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Old June 10, 2019, 19:41   #239
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Pandemics

I can take you to a variety of Ghost Towns in the upper plains
I'm into graveyards as they tell stories Paul
some rural towns up here vanished during the Spanish Flu
nothing left but a huge church and graveyard populated by 100s who perished from the flu.

I used to take younger folks to these places, make them read the markers and dates...blew their minds
really messed them up when I'd show them a plat of the community from the early 1900s. These were sizable towns and all that's left now is a huge Church made of brick or stone.
they would become somber as it sunk in Paul
particularly after I pointed out how isolated these communities were and how fast disease can expand these days

sure we disagree on things
I'm good with all that

Part of our issues is you see Mil as instilling a life long value system
I don't
American prisons are packed with Vets who raped, robbed and murdered
I see service as a Job one had
professions in no way define a Man as Human Paul
Again, we disagree.

I've been to places in Europe, same thing as here with the flu, lost half 2/3rds or even more of whole towns.

Pandemics are my real one concern with all this, we're all going to die stuff.

Mother nature is a true serial killer, and she is due, over due to rear up and let everyone know who's really in charge.
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Old June 10, 2019, 20:16   #240
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Again, we disagree.

I've been to places in Europe, same thing as here with the flu, lost half 2/3rds or even more of whole towns.

Pandemics are my real one concern with all this, we're all going to die stuff.

Mother nature is a true serial killer, and she is due, over due to rear up and let everyone know who's really in charge.
what do you disagree with ?
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Old June 10, 2019, 20:59   #241
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Post 241 and nothing over here. Just more of the same ole same ole with the gub bleeding you dry with taxes, new laws and stuff
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Old June 10, 2019, 21:13   #242
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what do you disagree with ?
Your near complete premise concerning GI's.
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Old June 10, 2019, 22:19   #243
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Your near complete premise concerning GI's.
you really want to get into that ?

Texas Tower shooter was military
so was fukkin' Oswald
lord I can provide many examples
shit I believe you assholes buried the Tower mass killer at a Military graveyard

fukk that shit, he was shit
military fools see themselves as special
you are NOT

want me to really dig into it
been some serial rapists who were former Mil
do they deserve a hole at Arlington ?

Years back gal I knew was suffering rapes by dad
he had plenty of combat awards and I carved his ass up badly one night
so yeah I have zero tolerance.
don't have shits given over service, scumbag is scumbag so fuk off on Mil worship

more than a few of them were severely abusive to wives
again, fuk the hell off Paul
just beat their gals
often they got off light because of war service

I'm hardly wired your way where even Oswald deserves a spot in Arlington
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Old June 10, 2019, 22:56   #244
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another thing
Americans don't take "orders" well
further your guys need shit, that shit will likely be stolen from people like me
some of us will shoot you in the face when you come to take from us

Myself, I will target leadership
I can do it at 600 yards with an antique .45 rifle easy
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Old June 11, 2019, 00:22   #245
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Originally Posted by Riversidesports View Post
you really want to get into that ?

Texas Tower shooter was military
so was fukkin' Oswald
lord I can provide many examples
shit I believe you assholes buried the Tower mass killer at a Military graveyard

fukk that shit, he was shit
military fools see themselves as special
you are NOT

want me to really dig into it
been some serial rapists who were former Mil
do they deserve a hole at Arlington ?

Years back gal I knew was suffering rapes by dad
he had plenty of combat awards and I carved his ass up badly one night
so yeah I have zero tolerance.
don't have shits given over service, scumbag is scumbag so fuk off on Mil worship

more than a few of them were severely abusive to wives
again, fuk the hell off Paul
just beat their gals
often they got off light because of war service

I'm hardly wired your way where even Oswald deserves a spot in Arlington
No, reason I answered the way I did and am doing now.

On this topic, you and I can't have a conversation, so I passed on it.
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Old June 11, 2019, 00:24   #246
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another thing
Americans don't take "orders" well
further your guys need shit, that shit will likely be stolen from people like me
some of us will shoot you in the face when you come to take from us

Myself, I will target leadership
I can do it at 600 yards with an antique .45 rifle easy
Whatever, again, we can't have a conversation in this topic, so I pass.
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Old June 11, 2019, 01:09   #247
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Whatever, again, we can't have a conversation in this topic, so I pass.
Seriously
I'm willing to hear you, any man defend any profession when members of it shit that particular bed

I'm the same with Cops & the clergy Paul
the greater respect expected the higher my conduct bar rises

we can have a reasonable conversation on this
more over it should be done
no chickenshittery allowed
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Old June 11, 2019, 05:56   #248
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Good thing we have those billion dollar bunkers, so that our *leaders* might rise from the ashes to lead the remnants, again...
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Old June 11, 2019, 09:19   #249
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Kali is 1.5 trillion in debt so you ask if it can be saved?

https://www.americanthinker.com/arti..._too_late.html
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Old June 11, 2019, 09:37   #250
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Kali is 1.5 trillion in debt so you ask if it can be saved?

https://www.americanthinker.com/arti..._too_late.html
It can be saved. Amazing what they'll cough up when you hit 'em hard enough. But it will probably take that. Kali doesn't have the luxury of printing their own script the way FedGov does.
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