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Old April 13, 2018, 22:17   #1
hueyville
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2005 Mercedes S430 4Matic with Armor Package

Wife and I are going to look at a 2005 Mercedes S430 with all wheel drive and armor package in next few days. Has been a commuter vehicle for an executive travelling into Atlanta for 12 years. Has 285,000 miles, good service records all from Mercedes dealer, interior looks new except divers seat is rough. Passenger and rear seats look like never been sat in. Exterior has good paint, no damage and clean carfax. Owner has a 2015 armored Benz and says it's mostly sat past three years except to drive when his new car is in for service or going somewhere worried about attempted break in of vandelism.

Options include bullet resistant glass (rated to burst from 9mm submachine gun), doors, firewall, panel behind rear seat, floorboards and fuel cell rated NIJ 3a and German Grenade under car. Has full air ride, V-8 gas engine, decent set of Michelin tires with run flat tires plus hard rubber donut in wheel where car will still move with tire totally shredded off wheel. Owner says AC blows cold, all electronics work and can take to mechanic of choice for a preflight.

We would only use for trips into the city going to doctors and such that currently do with wife's truck that gets very little mileage these days. Will be splitting up miles between the two and thus would likely last us forever. Our other option right now is a Ford Crown Victoria from local P.D. painted from black & white to black with police interceptor suspension and drive train package, push bar, flashing white LED lights still in grill and all marker lights, rear protective screen removed and interior from a passenger car swapped in, ballistic package in doors but not windows and run flat tires. Has 335,000 and transmission rebuilt 60,000 miles ago.

Do not mind high mileage vehicles with good service records. Truck I drive most days has 315,000 miles, another with 335,000, bucket truck has 295,000 miles and wifes truck is over a quarter million now. All would not hesitate to drive coast to coast except the big Topkick with Caterpillar 3116. The windows in the Mercedes give it a big edge as does the all wheel drive and air ride but the price reflects it but still not overly expensive as people are scared of high mileage cars. Anyone know much about the V8 gas engine in these Mercedes and durability of the air ride? Little as going to drive it not really worried and if lasts a decade will be able to recoup price at the scrap yard. Seems like the ultimate sleeper zombie car. Wife likes the idea a lot.
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Old April 13, 2018, 22:39   #2
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I know a Merc guy, he works at the dealer up north. I'll be seeing him tomorrow and will ask his opinion regarding the value. How much is the guy asking for it?
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Old April 14, 2018, 01:53   #3
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That car is worth what all the parts would sell for on ebay if someone dismantled it.

A 13 year old Benz with almost 300,000 miles on it? I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.
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Old April 14, 2018, 04:59   #4
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I know a Merc guy, he works at the dealer up north. I'll be seeing him tomorrow and will ask his opinion regarding the value. How much is the guy asking for it?
$5k, if lasts a year get my money out of it. It went up and down I-85 house to work and back. Drove through Lucky St district to get to final work destination and I want armor when there myself. Sold in Georgia, staged in Georgia, one owner with full Mercedes service records. Can tell was needing more and more service and why he bought another in 2015. Between parting out, harvesting ballistics and scrap metal can turn a profit if died on way home.

There are actually three other armored S models with armor for sale locally but 1992, 1995 and a 1998 model all with 350,000 plus. They are popular with executives and doctors that work downtown. This will be the third we have looked at.
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Old April 14, 2018, 09:01   #5
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Will get back to you later when I get home with his guesstimate.
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What if the Mystery Babalon described in Revelation, which is destroyed by the nations of the North, is actually America?

The biggest problem with religion is those who claim to know Jesus, then turn around and deny Him with their lifestyle. That is what a unbelieving world, simply finds unbelievable.

Before you die, you should have a will with extra copies. The old saying "No one will screw you faster than family" is bloody well true.
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Old April 14, 2018, 11:05   #6
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I gotta ask the obvious question..... Is having an armored vehicle really necessary to make Dr runs to Atlanta? And yes, I'd avoid a 12 year old Benz. The engine may run forever, but every dammed thing on those cars is controlled via an ecu of some sort. Those electronics are complex and pricey.
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Old April 14, 2018, 11:51   #7
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Huey, he said buy it. For that model year at that price, with that package, you won't get hurt at that price. He said by 05 the electrical bugs were sorted out, if it was on his lot he'd ask near eight for it.
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What if the Mystery Babalon described in Revelation, which is destroyed by the nations of the North, is actually America?

The biggest problem with religion is those who claim to know Jesus, then turn around and deny Him with their lifestyle. That is what a unbelieving world, simply finds unbelievable.

Before you die, you should have a will with extra copies. The old saying "No one will screw you faster than family" is bloody well true.
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Old April 14, 2018, 16:29   #8
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I gotta ask the obvious question..... Is having an armored vehicle really necessary to make Dr runs to Atlanta? And yes, I'd avoid a 12 year old Benz. The engine may run forever, but every dammed thing on those cars is controlled via an ecu of some sort. Those electronics are complex and pricey.
I have been working as a volunteer in hospitals emergency preparedness plans for years. Started with nothing but emergency communicator via ham radio till head of security discovered I had other skills and the facilities manager discovered I was licensed and insured to to work on commercial antennas along with emergency power systems.

Had a downdraft micro-burst clean the antennas off roof of hospital and within 30 minutes had the ham radio systems back online as had spare antennas, jumpers and lightning arrestors placed as close to their location on roof as possible. Their repeaters to ambulance and security fleet were both down and as maintenance supervisor had a team standing around wringing their hands I came in the door from roof, reset our machines and guy in radio room keyed both up and said we were live. Told me Motorola had so many calls from 911/fire/sheriff/police/DOT/everyone that hospital would not be back on air till Fire Dept and Sheriffs Dept was online. I went to truck and grabbed a few antennas of mine and got the ambulance and security repeaters back up in another half hour which made me a handy person to keep around.

Ended up with all access key to two Georgia Regional Coordinating Hospitals and mainly interface through their FEMA/GEMA staff which is tied closely with security directors. Each RCH has about 10 to 12 smaller hospitals under its "flag" and if have major regional emergency the RCH coordinates all the efforts of hospitals under it within the region. if one hospital ha to be evacuated for fire or tornado hit then the RCH decides how best to distribute the patients and incoming victims from community. If required they activated the mobile hospital group and volunteer emergency communicators handle much of the communications chores. A few small incidents combined with several state level drills where we presented the digital side of emcomm where we could send files, images and records instead of just talk into a microphone we went from glorified C.B. hillbillies to "must have" asset whenever they had troubles.

Started visiting others to determine we were basically least prepared for an emergency that involved disruption in regular communications. Found myself with $50,000 in grant money for our RCH and told to get ham radio fully implemented into the RCH and work with ham radio groups in other counties to get ham radio in their hospitals. Three didn't have ham radio organizations so our group stacked them out and helped recruit local volunteers and train them. So I got a huge dose of reality check on hospitals.

They are businesses and must run in the black or at least close to it. Empty beds means high cost of operation thus lost money. Have to staff and maintain all facilities so can't have a huge wad of rooms and beds empty and most run about 85% capacity. Now can double up moving beds into single rooms and make dual patient rooms, line halls with beds, etc but still have a saturation point as most hospitals get their blood orders daily. 24 hours without blood delivery and they grind to a halt. Can suspend all non critical operations such as knee and shoulder surgeries but if a major emergency happens they only have so many doctors, resources and room.

Major event happens and all the hurt/sick people head to hospital and there is no room at the inn. What will some do? Exactly what the tweakers and dopers that are in withdrawals do. Swarm the emergency room and end up going nuts when turned away. Most dangerous place in almost any town is the local emergency room. Ours has a four sided mirrored glass room with a group of security officers dressed in SORT gear 24/7/365 and job is when patient becomes violent they are to put them down, shackle and have gone in 90 seconds. Happens not occasionally or regularly but almost daily if not multiple incidents per day. We live in Mayberry, imagine cities like Atlanta and hospitals like Grady in the middle of the "war zone".

My ex fiancee was an orthopedic surgeon at Grady. She would go in for a shift and might be 36 hours getting home if had weekend on-call. Many of the people she was putting back together got busted up in the hospital parking lot or emergency room. Our hospital it is common for a doper to be turned away, escorted to door by security and then either come back with a weapon or commit suicide in the parking lot. While most is very discrete even to staff, most hospitals biggest issue is security. Imagine pandemic or major natural event and hospital is overwhelmed and locks the doors. Your wife is dying and wont let you in, what are you going to do?

Works like this... Soon as it is realized things are going toward chaos the security team locks all the doors and all entry is controlled through emergency back doors via ambulance. Portable hospital is deployed away from main campus in middle of town and announcements made if have medical emergency to go to location x, your primary care, Doc in the Box, etc but hospital campus is maxed out and closed. Soon as security gets doors secured Law Enforcement or Reserve/National Guard sets up perimeter as far from main buildings they can maintain. First few hours the facility is maxed, we go to putting people in halls, conference rooms, etc but have run out of blood, drugs and food. Hope the helicopters are coming with supplies, staff and more security. Thats worse case.

Between wife and I one of us has a minor outpatient at Piedmont or Shepard Spinal Center once every three to six weeks if not more often. Its nature of an aging society. The parking decks are rift with homeless and i.v. drug addicts and if look like have money or meds your a target. 80% of the body armor I sell is to doctors. Go to Grady Memorial, Northside, Piedmont and other metro hospitals. Walk the doctors parking deck and count the number of S Class Mercedes with armor packages, where do you think we found the one we are going to look at tomorrow? Belongs to a doctor that is friend of a doctor I sold a vest to. They don't like the trip from parking deck to back door and after dark are usually escorted by security.

Grady Memorial is a downright war zone and why all critical operations are to floor such as servers, security video surveillance rooms and control centers. Except in patient rooms, restrooms and exam rooms there are few blind spots for the cameras. They have a group of people watching monitors in multiple rooms 24/7/365 and do the best they can. Car with big rims, crazy paint and four minorities in black hoodies turns in parking lot are marked immediately. watched where park, where go, when enter building security officers are close and till intent is determined they are always seconds away from being pounced upon. This is so seamless and discreet patients, visitors and staff don't realize how much is going on to hold the fort.
two elderly people in a Cadillac using walkers or one in wheelchair are invisible.

After the Presidential election there were protests in Atlanta every weekend and Friday is the day my back guy does the bulk of his procedures. Two trips that time frame we had to be detoured by police around protests where bottles, bricks and other crap was being thrown. Cars were burning and even interstate off ramps closed to keep people out of the areas that had gone Chernobyl. Two weekends in a row hundreds of people that were part of thousands across the city walked out in the middle of where I-75/I-85 meet in middle of city for about 20 miles and shut down 18 lanes of traffic sitting down in the middle of the interstate and innocent people in cars were caught up in that mess.

Amy trip into the city if the natives decide to riot and freak out it can get nasty anywhere at anytime. Hospitals draw a certain type of criminal out and most are desperate. Navigating the roads if active protests are happening can be horrible. One trip into the city Nobama had come to speak, they closed I-85/I-75 from the airport to downtown, closed a lot of the bridges that crossed the intestate and if trying to get out of town then it was city wide gridlock trying to go through some of the worst neighborhoods in Atlanta. Same thing happened when Joe Biden came to town to raise money and get votes as did when V.P. Pence came to town recently. I got trapped in the city all three of those events and was told when Trump came to Atlanta it was 5 times worse than when Nobama did as the natives were not hating on Nobama.

Getting out of the city took me three hours just to get out of the metro area heading toward Athens which is the wrong way to the house. Turned a 70 minute drive into a six hour drive to work around the mess of people trying to get to the north-side where most commuters come from. Spent at least two hours at a dead stop in "the hood" as weaved around trying to find a way out of the maze. All the restaurants had filled with professional commuters who just parked and sat it out till the interstate opened back up. Any trip into any major city can turn to sh!te in a second and for people like me that are not very in tune with what streets are safe and which are not can go crappy sitting in gridlock looking at hundreds of obvious gang bangers looking at cars like dinner.

Couple years ago one of our members was robbed at an ATM in Columbia SC. He was packing and still they got the total drop on him. Wife is from Columbia area, her family and friends tell her not to be in the "Five Ponts" district at all but especially after dark. Was going through Columbia with a dear friend, big farm boy 6' 4" 290 pounds in a SUV after dark on a Friday night and said when went through two neighborhoods ran every red light possible. Said the M.O. was gang bangers on every corner. Stop at one light and if white, nice vehicle and females wearing jewelry with purses in seat spotters would call ahead and if got pinned at next light or two then bricks would come through all windows, guns pointed at you and told if give over all purses, wallets and jewelry will be allowed to leave alive but not to look back or stop else would be shot before or at the next light. Don't call o cops while still in their hood. There are areas of Atlanta like that as well and are bigger with more of them. She said he nor his wife ever took their hands off their guns and told her to get hers out and have ready as had to go the route were on due to road construction.

Going through NYC we got in wrong lane on George Washington Bridge and suddenly found ourselves lost in a really bad place and all the GPS did was keep saying "when possible make a legal u-turn" we would turn around and dang machine would say the same thing. A black taxi cab driver started waving at us frantically and pulled up screaming at us not to roll down windows and we needed to get out of that neighborhood now!!! I just waved my hands and made circles with my forefinger indicating we were lost. He hollered to follow him and not to stop for anything including red lights or stop signs. He hammered us out of that part of NYC and got us onto the interstate going north, waved and took the next exit.

We wandered on foot into a Sharia Law community on our last real trip to Paris. Five men backed us into a corner but wife and I were both in heavy leather boots, leather coats with stab panels and when realized we were about to be dogfood pulled my big Spiderco out of rear pocket and gave to wife (before her mobility issues had begun to show) told her soon as I made a step toward the men based on how it went for her to run away, back he direction we came from and not to look back or would turn to pillar of salt. said to start slashing with the knife if anyone grabbed her and i pulled a Damascus Tanto from small of back and broke toward the men, wife did an end around and when they realized my intent was to kill them they broke and ran allowing me to follow wife. Was our last walking tour of Paris as they don't place signs telling you when entering a Sharia Law community and my white wife showing skin was a sin and were later told was an easy way to get raped then killed while husband was forced to watch.

Cities are only on edge of control most of the time. Something as simple as a court decision a group doesn't like and cities across the country burn. Buddy and I were working our way up the Dali coast from Joshua Tree toward Yosemite with stops in Suicide/Tahquitz, Mickeys Beach and other well known rock climbing areas when L.A. exploded due to the Rodney King verdict. We had guns and were unsure is were going to make it out of L.A. alive. It was dicey more than once with damage done to the rental car and us thanking God had the full coverage insurance, guns and were relatively nimble. We went to Vegas to climb at Red Rocks instead and they were rioting there but as long as stayed on the strip cops and hotel security had it locked down. Getting to Red Rocks in morning was o.k. but back to the hotel in evening was sketchy so finally drove out to the Black Velvet Canyon and camped rest of the trip to stay out of the city.

Maybe its bad luck, maybe its amount I travel and places go, or combination of many factors but have seen a lot of sh!te go down in cities. More than a few times knew my life was in danger and its just getting worse. Getting older, wife in wheelchair and have to go to Atlanta for best medical care. If I can do anything to make it safer I will. When I was a kid would walk all over Atlanta during Christmas with my mom and little brother shopping and looking at Christmas decorations. Now I go for work and doctors and seen more crap since the last election in Atlanta than entire life. Its getting exponential, we will have to keep going back and if I want to find me a serviceable S Class Benz with an armor package think its just smart thing to do.

While the huge section of I-85/I-75 had collapsed following the big fire we had to take alternate routes to doctors every trip. Found ourselves in many neighborhoods didn't want to be and would not have if interstate had not been shut down. That could happen again, Spaghetti Junction could collapse and all traffic into the city would be through neighborhoods outsiders don't know. Why we are looking at a well serviced but disposable armored Benz. something expensive that is critical to function dies and we part it out and look for another. Have armor packages in door of my daily driver and wife's truck that came out of cop car doors rated NIJ 3a but all the glass around us is zero protection from anything but rain. I will be going to Shepard Spinal Center the rest of my life and wife will be going to Piedmont and both to Emory so we are going to find a ballistic protected vehicle to do it in. I am not a victim of anything but my on poor choices so making a choice to provide safety for us as we do the doctor routine in the city.

Want to have some fun, take your white American @$$ for a walk through La Paz in Bolivia. Makes Lima Peru and Bogata Columbia seem like a walk in he sunflowers with a bunch of hippies. bible says I am responsible for the safety of my family and household, not the police, government or military. Me! So if my wife gets hurt because I don't recognize a threat and take steps to mitigate that threat then I become an @$$. $5k on a clunker Benz thats bulletproof sounds like a fine idea. Also going to look at a 1995 S 320 as has less crap to break even if ten years older but has been called the most over engineered and reliable car in the world. The AWD and V8 of the S 430 would be good for evading but also might be what goes loopy and leaves us abandoned on side of road. Am not looking for pretty, just armored and gets us where we are gong and back.
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Old April 14, 2018, 16:33   #9
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Well, an old armoured car isn't going to be much good when it's broken down on the side of the road. Good luck.
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Old April 14, 2018, 16:35   #10
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Huey. I think you just broke your own record for the longest post
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Old April 14, 2018, 17:17   #11
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Bogota Columbia
Colombia bro.....

....sorry, I spent two years there and the spelling is a pet peeve of mine
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Old April 14, 2018, 18:28   #12
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Huey. I think you just broke your own record for the longest post
You just *thought* his posts were long. Wait until he buys that car and has to work on it constantly, and documents every detail here. I don't know that Jen's server can handle it.
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Old April 16, 2018, 05:33   #13
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You just *thought* his posts were long. Wait until he buys that car and has to work on it constantly, and documents every detail here. I don't know that Jen's server can handle it.
Now that right there is funny shite....I don't care who you are!

Thank you sir for the grin..
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Old April 16, 2018, 10:41   #14
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Guess I asked the right question to the right person at the right time lol
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Old April 16, 2018, 11:19   #15
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hueyville, there was a time in the mid-90s where the green party had a lot of seats in Germany. As a result, they supposedly forced automakers to use more environmentally-friendly wires, which translated to insulation breaking down in no time (think late-80s Volvos). But, the worst stab at Mercedes was joining up with Chrysler; Mercedes made during that era are considered the worst ever. They went from the top 10 in quality to the bottom 10. The Top Gear episodes from that time period make a point to mention problems those cars had. JD Powers (sp?) does not think they have to recovered yet
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Old April 16, 2018, 18:19   #16
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We looked at both and called our mechanic who had me check a few things and recommended not buying either. Said would be fine cars till first major systems failure and would cost more than prices of them to repair. Back to looking at the Crown Victoria for commuting or just keep using the big Dodge diesel. Both needed tires even though tread was decent were starting to show signs of dry rot as owners of both only drove them once every few months as had newer versions. Doc swore it was a good car but our wrench said the AWD would be a five figure fix if transmission went out and not as easy to part out as thought. Few need parts for either of that generation as go to crusher when they die.

Seemed like a good idea and will keep looking. Our mechanics wife drives a Mercedes G500 that he bought for a steal from guy 48 hours before bank was going to reposess it. Was ables to get for payoff and owner had traded a 7 series BMW plus put cash in then after two years lost everything in a bad investment. The G Wagon is a seriously reliable machine for them. Keep our eyes open and the right vehicle will pop up for us to be old folks driving around lost at 10 MPH under the speed limit in left lane of I-85 going into the city.
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Old April 16, 2018, 18:51   #17
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You just *thought* his posts were long. Wait until he buys that car and has to work on it constantly, and documents every detail here. I don't know that Jen's server can handle it.
My ex bought a 2003 CLK500 in 2006. I was impressed with the quality of The driveline and body. They have gadget issues plus the suspension gets a workout. If you’re willing to spend a few 1000 every year they can be kept up. I was looking at mods for that 5 liter v8 and realized how much it was tamed down versus what it could do
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Old April 16, 2018, 20:44   #18
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My wife likes the city but recently commented on the amount of homeless....I don’t go into the city unless I have to....and I don’t have to....


Got a coworker that’s a big van of ex cop cars....said people just get out of the way...
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Old April 16, 2018, 20:56   #19
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My wife likes the city but recently commented on the amount of homeless....I don’t go into the city unless I have to....and I don’t have to....


Got a coworker that’s a big van of ex cop cars....said people just get out of the way...
Yep an old Crown Vic with a spotlight and the police interceptor badge will keep you honest when you’re on the edge of the line
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Old April 16, 2018, 21:45   #20
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My ex bought a 2003 CLK500 in 2006. I was impressed with the quality of The driveline and body. They have gadget issues plus the suspension gets a workout. If you’re willing to spend a few 1000 every year they can be kept up. I was looking at mods for that 5 liter v8 and realized how much it was tamed down versus what it could do

I have a W210 and a W212. Got both of them when they went out of factory warranty and were traded in. I drove the 210 until it wore out. The 212 is still nice and tight.

There's no way I would mod a Benz.
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Old April 16, 2018, 21:53   #21
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I have a W210 and a W212. Got both of them when they went out of factory warranty and were traded in. I drove the 210 until it wore out. The 212 is still nice and tight.

There's no way I would mod a Benz.
The mods would be in line with tweaked AMG stuff.
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Old April 16, 2018, 22:52   #22
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What is protecting the radiator from gunfire? You didn't mention that.

Take out the cooling system and you are dead on the road in 10 miles or less.
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Old April 17, 2018, 02:02   #23
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The mods would be in line with tweaked AMG stuff.
I put AMG brakes on my 210. Huge difference. Need that in Houston when idiots pull out in front of me.
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Old April 17, 2018, 06:43   #24
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Huey , I'll sell ya my 78' Nova ; Parts are much easier to find than a Benz...
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Old April 17, 2018, 10:52   #25
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If your concern is attracting attention of drug addicts and gang bangers, is a Mercedes going to attract more or less attention than a different make?

If getting stuck in a war zone is a concern, is a car with so many miles more or less likely to break down?

I'd rather have something less conspicuous and more reliable. Wouldn't it be a better bet to go that route, and then look into at least door and glass armor-up solutions?

I don't go in the city but I share your sentiment - getting stuck there is not on my to-do list. That damn bridge fire last year, geeze. crap scenarios like that can happen anytime.
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Old April 17, 2018, 12:22   #26
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If getting stuck in a war zone is a concern, is a car with so many miles more or less likely to break down?
Mileage in an European car is different than in an American car. You expect to see the honey marks in the bore of a 100K miles VW engine. I drive a Volvo with 200+K miles and it is turbo. A Diesel Mercedes, specially the older ones, is expected to have an engine lasting half a million miles without rebuild if properly maintained. With that said, the electrics in a modern VW/Audi/Mercedes are to be looked with concern and suspicion. The older Mercedes used connectors that could be reused if you decided to rewire it. Not anymore.
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Old April 17, 2018, 13:57   #27
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decisions like this come down to ''what does $5,000 mean to you?''. for me its pocket money. and guessing by your posts over the years its pocket money to you as well. buy it and when it breaks throw it out.
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Old April 18, 2018, 06:19   #28
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Just my 2 cents. But, if you need an armored vehicle to drive into the city. You shouldn't be driving into the city.
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Old April 18, 2018, 07:12   #29
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Said would be fine cars till first major systems failure and would cost more than prices of them to repair.
This was my same experience with higher end German cars. Wife had a BMW 325 for several years. As it got up in mileage needing minor repairs it became obvious that the cost of the parts alone for me to fix it was more than I would have paid in both parts & labor to have someone else fix an American car.

One day I came home and she wanted me to drive it because the thought the tranny might be slipping. I took it for a drive immediately, straight to the local Lincoln/Mercury dealer. In less than two hours it was traded in on a Continental

That was my first and last experience owning a German car.
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Old April 18, 2018, 09:49   #30
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The Crown Victoria Police Interceptor (CVPI) *might* be a good car and it might not, depending on who owned it and how it was treated. If it was a "hot seat" car, driven by shift after shift rather than issued out to one copper as a take home unit, I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. Even the take home cars are suspect once they get above 100K because many cop cars spend mucho time idling while the flat foots drink coffee, eat donuts and bullshit with each other...

Or actually, in addition to BS'ing, there are some times when the vehicle is idling because they're interviewing people, completing reports or waiting for calls for service. Idling is one of the things killing the new Ford Explorers and we're being advised to shut them off whenever possible. A typical CVPI has had a VERY hard life and with budget crunches facing most agencies these days, they may not have been serviced as well as they once were. Not to mention the last CVPI rolled off the production line in 2011 so even the best car out there is at least 7 years old.

I might consider one if I could find one that was assigned to a fat old detective for a take home unit but a regular black and white? You couldn't pay me enough to buy one of those...

Here's a link to Public Surplus where many agencies dispose of their surplus to requirements units. Take a look at the various issues ailing the CVPI from slipping trannies to bad water pumps, leaks, bad engines and so on. They aren't comfortable to sit in either as I well know after thousands and thousands of hours spent pushing one around.

https://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/br...&search=Search
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Old April 18, 2018, 10:49   #31
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This was my same experience with higher end German cars. Wife had a BMW 325 for several years. As it got up in mileage needing minor repairs it became obvious that the cost of the parts alone for me to fix it was more than I would have paid in both parts & labor to have someone else fix an American car.

One day I came home and she wanted me to drive it because the thought the tranny might be slipping. I took it for a drive immediately, straight to the local Lincoln/Mercury dealer. In less than two hours it was traded in on a Continental

That was my first and last experience owning a German car.
this was our E350. totaled after getting clipped in the rear quarter panel while passing through an intersection. the car spun around an hit a light pole sending it down on top of the car, that's what busted up the roof. we walked away without as much as a scratch. we rarely drove that car and had just detailed it that morning. Mercedes may be expensive to maintain but they are very safe cars. you pay for that.















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Old April 18, 2018, 11:29   #32
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interesting thing about that crash is that we never found the trunk lid. i looked inside the trunk but couldnt see it. i guess theyre designed to completely crumple down inside. it vansihed. tow truck guy couldnt find it either.
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Old April 18, 2018, 12:33   #33
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Mercedes may be expensive to maintain but they are very safe cars. you pay for that.
100% agreed, but that does not rule out Ford, or the advantage of simple MASS.

A few years ago the wife hit an unexpected icy overpass in our Excursion. Fishtailed a few times, then clipped the guardrail which spun her into the median. As near as we could tell, it rolled five times before landing on the passenger side.

She dropped out of the seat belt to stand vertically on the passenger door. A guy behind her who saw it happen pulled on the windshield as she kicked it outward.

She simply walked out of it through the front window without a bruise or a scratch

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Old April 18, 2018, 13:08   #34
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What is protecting the radiator from gunfire? You didn't mention that. Take out the cooling system and you are dead on the road in 10 miles or less.
But that ten miles without sucking up a round to the body is enough distance average car jacker or gang bangers to no longer be of concern and have law enforcement involvement in getting rest of way home safely.

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Just my 2 cents. But, if you need an armored vehicle to drive into the city. You shouldn't be driving into the city.
Wish we didn't but had to go into Atlanta for wife to have outpatient this morning with an 7:30 arrival which had us sitting dead stop or crawling at 5 to 15 mph in commuter traffic on I-85 south for 90 minutes. Anyone could have done anything and your trapped, can't go forward, reverse or even swap lanes. We tried local doctors for some of our issues with very poor luck. With some issues have to go to a large population center to find the best specialists. Our back surgeons handles half the PGA professional golfers with bad backs and my primary orthopedic surgeon is the default knee surgeon for U.S. Olympic Ski & Track teams along with shoulders whicjh includes the Braves pitching staff. What I pay per month for insurance and going to get the best doctors I can find. If means going into the city and occasionally passing through risky areas do best we can to mitigate the risk.

As to $5,000 being pocket cbange, nope it's still real money but my health insurance is $3,500 per month and by time we pay deductibles, copays, wife's medicine her Medicare & supplemental doesn't cover $5,000 is right on the nose of our average months total health cost. We would be much better off if I filed for disability and let Uncle Sugar pick up most of the tab which am a shoe in as had seven doctors declare me disabled. I enjoy working and so as long as I can will continue. My retirement plan is to quit when they carry my dead body out of my building or off a job site.

If was just the $5,000, asking for both cars firm, would have popped on the 1985 S 320 with armor package. Both needed new tires to feel safe which is $1,400 to $2,000 for good set mounted on the run flat system in wheels and supposed to be run flat tires to work properly. Surely would have had a few issues when took in for service and could have been in $10,000 real fast. Had felt tires were serviceable would have driven the '85 model home. The Crown Victoria need to look at and see if has the armor package still in doors for sure as a lot of departments lull those before they auction them. With good service records, good tires and the $2,500 price if armor is in it will use for an interim vehicle till find something more appropriate with bullet resistant glass. Anyone that doesn't intuitively understand why want such for driving into Atlanta likely won't be able to explain why want such a vehicle. It's like body armor, people get it or they don't.
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Old April 18, 2018, 20:43   #35
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this was our E350. totaled after getting clipped in the rear quarter panel while passing through an intersection. the car spun around an hit a light pole sending it down on top of the car, that's what busted up the roof. we walked away without as much as a scratch. we rarely drove that car and had just detailed it that morning. Mercedes may be expensive to maintain but they are very safe cars. you pay for that.


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Old April 18, 2018, 21:28   #36
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But that ten miles without sucking up a round to the body is enough distance average car jacker or gang bangers to no longer be of concern and have law enforcement involvement in getting rest of way home safely.



Wish we didn't but had to go into Atlanta for wife to have outpatient this morning with an 7:30 arrival which had us sitting dead stop or crawling at 5 to 15 mph in commuter traffic on I-85 south for 90 minutes. Anyone could have done anything and your trapped, can't go forward, reverse or even swap lanes. We tried local doctors for some of our issues with very poor luck. With some issues have to go to a large population center to find the best specialists. Our back surgeons handles half the PGA professional golfers with bad backs and my primary orthopedic surgeon is the default knee surgeon for U.S. Olympic Ski & Track teams along with shoulders whicjh includes the Braves pitching staff. What I pay per month for insurance and going to get the best doctors I can find. If means going into the city and occasionally passing through risky areas do best we can to mitigate the risk.

As to $5,000 being pocket cbange, nope it's still real money but my health insurance is $3,500 per month and by time we pay deductibles, copays, wife's medicine her Medicare & supplemental doesn't cover $5,000 is right on the nose of our average months total health cost. We would be much better off if I filed for disability and let Uncle Sugar pick up most of the tab which am a shoe in as had seven doctors declare me disabled. I enjoy working and so as long as I can will continue. My retirement plan is to quit when they carry my dead body out of my building or off a job site.

If was just the $5,000, asking for both cars firm, would have popped on the 1985 S 320 with armor package. Both needed new tires to feel safe which is $1,400 to $2,000 for good set mounted on the run flat system in wheels and supposed to be run flat tires to work properly. Surely would have had a few issues when took in for service and could have been in $10,000 real fast. Had felt tires were serviceable would have driven the '85 model home. The Crown Victoria need to look at and see if has the armor package still in doors for sure as a lot of departments lull those before they auction them. With good service records, good tires and the $2,500 price if armor is in it will use for an interim vehicle till find something more appropriate with bullet resistant glass. Anyone that doesn't intuitively understand why want such for driving into Atlanta likely won't be able to explain why want such a vehicle. It's like body armor, people get it or they don't.
Good luck in finding a CVPI with armor. While it was an option, it was a $2000+ option and back then, no-one was really killing cops like they are these days. A CVPI with armor is a rare beast indeed.
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Old April 19, 2018, 11:18   #37
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Armored van for sale:

Looks like it's pretty used up, but... :

https://www.purplewave.com/auction/180501/item/DC0720
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Old April 19, 2018, 14:02   #38
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Looked at two last weekend and there have been two more this week pop up in Atlanta area all mid 80's though about 2012.
two found this week were either too ragged out or too nice. Actually see them quite often for sale as believe, don't quote me on this, but a large soft drink company in Atlanta either provides them to their executives or they tend to buy them out of pocket. Have a fresh battery list and had not worked a big list in at least three years all in metro ATL. Most of the places are where it takes time to get though if don't know their system and in their computer battery vendors don't like sending company techs and put us subcontractors on them.

Between being a patient at Shepard Spinal Center, wife and I both at Piedmont and Northside plus working telecom/server batteries at those along with Grady Memorial and other downtown hospitals, hotels like the Four Seasons, most of the taller skyline buildings of Atlanta I find myself in the secure areas of their parking decks where only top level employees, doctors and priority vendors are allowed. Amazing how many armored Mercedes are in the parking decks of these facilities.

Most of the Dodge Chargers and Challengers sold in law enforcement trim have armor packages in doors as well as some of the more recent surplus Crown Victoria's, Chevy Caprice, SUV's (Ford Explorers mostly around here) and pickups. Locally all sheriffs office and P.D. cars are assigned an officer and are not hot shifted being run 24 hours a day anymore. Add in the city and the county have a moratorium for two years on overtime unless real emergency the cars are not abused or driven muck, well service and flipped on a regular basis. Armor packages are not rare and have a set of Challenger NIJ 3a Kevlar panels in the doors of my Dakota and would have in wife's truck except she doesn't want me to mess with it but she seems to be coming around to the idea but wants her mechanic to put them in.

Ford began offering NIJ 3a panels in their police interceptor models in 2008 but for 2018 they raised the option package to choice of handgun or rifle panels rated to 7.62x39. Hardwire (a division of Safariland) and if go to the No topic thread will see some of my Hardwire rifle plates use in my rifle rated armor kits now offers ballistic window packages for police vehicles and Ford is fast tracking their testing of ballistic windows for police vehicles following all the recent cop shootings. About five to eight years after armored doors and glass becomes standard on majority of cop cars will see a lot of folks like me buying them.

I am selling a lot of body armor and ballistic barriers with churches and doctors being biggest clients now. It is a very fast growing industry and if I can just catch a few small jobs its good supplemental income. Friends dad had the contract to do all the body work for local sheriffs department and police department for about 20 years. Can remember that it was common for him to be fixing bullet holes in cop cars back in the 1970's. At first it kind of stunned me but he would grin and said cop wandered across the railroad tracks after dark without the SWAT Team behind him.

Between fleabay and Craigslist I see several dozen older armored Mercedes in Atlanta area every year and there are two dealers that specialize in used Mercedes that both have armored versions on lot right now. One has a relatively late model for $37,000 which is about what the same car would cost without armor as used the armor doesn't add a significant amount to value of the car. Armored cars from German companies is actually rather common and aftermarket upgrades for American cars is a big business at all levels of protection. the panels indoors of my truck took a little fitting but were $199 on fleabay and the panels purchased for wires truck were $300. A bargain really. I believe armor packages will become a factory/dealer option on American cars very soon without buying a police package for your vehicle.
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Old May 04, 2018, 16:15   #39
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Friend shot today five minutes behind me on Hwy 365 a few miles after I-985 went from controlled access to four lanes with cross roads and occasional red lights.

https://nowhabersham.com/three-shot-...ent-on-ga-365/

https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/hal...unty/743884364

https://www.gainesvilletimes.com/new...ad-and-ga-365/

https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/...C3fCK6dydXWxK/

Talked to one of the victims at 9:52 am this morning to see why he had called me last night to discover he had pocket dialed me and why didn't leave a message. We chatted about our wives as both went to dental school together and graduated same year as only two "older" students who were looking to change careers.

After call texted his brother as we sometimes team up on telecom battery projects and have a bit Atlanta list wanted to see if he wanted in on some of the work. Told him to call me when got through with work as drives a dump truck on the side and doesn't like to talk on phone while drives a tandem dump truck. A little after 2:00 pm he called me while up a ladder let it go to voice mail then less than 10 minutes later it rang again so soon as got down called him.

His brother was going up GA 365 about five minutes behind me based on timeline from stopping for fuel about four miles south of the shooting incident. Was going on big circle so decided to get fuel sooner rather than later. Had my truck not had almost half a tank I would have been right in the sweet spot of prime active shooter zone and time.

Friend drives a one ton flatbed with big heavy steel doors plus window was down. He had a hip replacement about two years ago and his left hip is more titanium than bone. Shooter had a "hunting rifle" and two handguns. Shot through door of friends truck with the rifle and bullet went into his hip striking the titanium hip socket. Big steel door, window and window mechanism plust interior trim sucked up enough energy that when bullet hit his hip it turned and went toward cheek of his @$$. Was treated and released with doctors saying would do more damage to remove the bullet than leave it. Basically slapped a band-aid on it and sent him home.

Other victim was not quite as lucky. Cops chased shooter down and when cornered him he shot himself in the head. Wild how it was a friend had talked to just a couple hours earlier and was five minutes apart on same road. My little Dakota is not as heavily built as his one ton flatbed but I do have the Level IIIa ballistic panels in doors. Rifle would have burned them if hit my truck same as his, entered below waistline of my body armor and was not wearing a vest with full side coverage today due to working outside in heat.

People think I am odd about wearing armor and wanting armored vehicle but have been chased around by 82 year old woman with Alzheimer's for digging up her tulips on a job site as her husband left her unattended long enough to go to pharmacy and a loaded shotgun knowing he had or would have workers in the yard due to road construction. that was two summers ago. Had a 77 year old man with dementia come after me about two years ago with a loaded five shot 38 and hammer cocked for "stealing" the real estate sign I had orders to remove for real estate company. Over 35 years of working five to fifteen road side locations per day, three to five days per week have had about seven such encounters, usually with person being older with mental health problems left unattended.

Now have to worry about crazed "snipers", protestors, car jackers and more. Having my friend shot here in Mayberry of all places by a roadside random sniper just minutes after I passed same intersection is enough to get a mans attention. Could have easily passed the guy as was setting up and loading up, been caught by one or two more lights and been in the window of opportunity for being shot and bullet could have come though glass and hit me in the head. Wife is freaked as called his wife immediately and has told me to step up the search for an armored Hitler wagon we can afford for going up and down this road as this was the second shooting incident on this road this week.

Two shootings on a road we use daily in a week and we are going to self preservation mode. Let it be the other people and hope not our family or friends. have gotten four calls for body armor already this afternoon. My guess is over the rest of the evening as other locals get off work and watch the news or hear I will be getting more calls this weekend. Flipping armor and ballistic barriers is becoming a decent side business though don't ever make money off friends or Files members just like my fre AR 15 upper repairs. Like to help people when I can. But two shootings on the road we use going to the doctor this week and wife wants a Benz with full armored passenger compartment.
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Old May 04, 2018, 16:27   #40
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Just get a Ferret....


https://tanks-alot.co.uk/product/ferret-armoured-car/
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Old May 04, 2018, 16:59   #41
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Might rather be shot than take the beating that thing would dish out driving to Atlanta and back. Don't even like the ride in a military Hummer with light armor package as one of my clients has two. When have bad backs and brittle bones ride quality is important as well. Cut a piece of ballistic abrasion resistant polycarbonate in 3/4" thickness that reaches side to side in bed of truck and almost to full head height and have clamped inside of campershell of wife's truck against the bed and inside of campershell right at cab. Loose about one inch of cargo room and will stop most all handguns including special threat rounds.

With Kevlar panels from police cruiser in her doors as well if we get low real fast have some protection though not figured out how to armor the rear "quad cab" doors yet and still leaves side glass and windshield totally unprotected which seen small gravel from truck tires spider web windshield. Been paying attention and their is basically a random shooting on metro Atlanta roads almost daily now. Many are road rage, some domestic and like today many are just random. World is going sideways and looks like S has already HTF. May as well drive a vehicle that's prepared for it and know know why so many used armored Mercedes come up for sale in metro ATL area now.
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Old May 05, 2018, 13:24   #42
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After had a person friend shot on same road I was driving yesterday within 15 minutes of me going by same intersection got curious as to how often this is happening in Metro Atlanta area. Know its often enough that many doctors and executives commute in armored Mercedes and their used cars come up for sale on regular basis.

More info on our local shooting yesterday:
https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/hal...hway/744326444

Man shoots three people in three incidents killing one (2018):
https://www.myajc.com/news/crime--la...S3TjZLqudW8AO/

Shots fired during routine police traffic stop I-20:
http://www.wsmv.com/story/37391794/s...g-traffic-stop

2015 Public Road Killings Atlanta:
Quote:
Inside Georgia, the most deaths occurred — not surprisingly — in metro Atlanta. The G.B.I. compiled data on 91 shooting deaths on Atlanta roads.
This number is after filtering out suicides, robberies and domestic along with others. People shot in some and killed during form of crime in Atlanta traffic in 2015. That year their were a total of 394 murders in Atlanta which basically shows that 25% of Atlanta shooting deaths happen in traffic and on the roads. Have read a bunch of information and filtering out domestic disputes or gang/drug activity about half or a little more of these shootings are random or result of road rage. Basically one person a week gets killed at random on Atlanta roads.

Finding the number of people shot and not killed is a number that eludes me but shooter yesterday shot 17 times at hitting 7 total vehicles. REad one article saying there were on average 20 violent car jacking crimes per month in Atlanta. Complicating matters is how crimes are charged. In Georgia rather than use attempted murder most criminals are charged with Assault with a Deadly Weapon. The type weapon is not really tracked but there are over 13,000 assault with deadly weapons arrests per year, but how may actually happen can't find any real hard data.

What I do know is that 2015 and 2016 stats show 91 and 97 people killed by gunfire in Atlanta traffic each of those years so its probably safe to say 100 people per year shot while driving through Atlanta on an average year now. Add in 40 car jackings with half of them defined as violent per month. No numbers posted on folks injured by gunfire only killed in Atlanta traffic and its especially hard to find any data on cars that were shot at but knowing my buddies dad was fixing bullet holes in local cop cars almost weekly in the 80's doesn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy.

So this is what we are going to to till we find a decent used armored Mercedes that passes an inspection by our mechanic and has verified run flats in good condition or can afford to put them on first day as take in for its first service. Found a guy with big pile of Level 3a soft Kevlar square panels in 12"x12" and 16"x16" so purchased a dozen of each after negotiating price. Going to pull interior trim panels wife's truck along with carpet at firewall and rear of cab then line entire cab with 3a Kevlar up to window height. Found some snaps made for industrial use and plan is to put three snap buttons along one side of a pair of 16"x16"panels with the mate properly spaced on trim panels above each side window so can fasten three snaps and like a side curtain air bag deploying just pull string and will roll down if need some side protection.

Have figured out how to cut this piece of ballistic polycarbonate to line the rear window world camper shell on truck which is same size as trucks rear windshield. Also my steel distributor has a piece of 3/16" AR 250 steel that will fit behind rear seat of her truck or can put between bed liner and bed behind cab. Been needing to pull the camper shell and replace the weather seal between it and truck bed rails so think most likely thing is to pull the shell and bed liner. Put the AR 250 steel against bed right behind cab and drop bed liner back in. Then mount the 3/4" abrasion resistant polycarbonate over camper shell window and rear of truck is totally handgun resistant. Have a piece of tinted 3/16" abrasion resistant polycarbonate to replace rear glass of camper shell with just have to lay it out and cut on my CNC router. That gets bullet slowing and expanding or even unstable by time reaches polycarbonate at rear of cab. Shot through tailgate has a lot of steel to go through and then has the 3/16" AR 250 steel to defeat.

Every piece of trim and carpet can remove in cab line with the Kevlar panels just ordered and let the front door panels do their job leaving just the side and front glass as weak areas. Could line windshield with ballistic polycarbonate but would look horrible and be difficult to keep clean. Let the side window curtains help and if necessary whoever is passenger can pull the rifle threat plate carrier I always have with me from back seat and snap into two pieces and place as shield over about half of windshield and then drive the big diesel truck like it's built to do. Let the run flat tires keep us rolling and try to stay situationally aware but in gridlock traffic what can you do if there is a wannabe sniper on an overpass or in the woods?
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Old May 06, 2018, 19:46   #43
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Sounds like people have been watching too much TV.

The truth is this:

1. Armored glass degrades over time in UV rays.
2. Armored vehicles wear out very fast due to all the extra weight.
3. Not all armored vehicles are the same in quality and manufacturer.
4. Slapping up unsecured panels in car doors is not armor or effective at stopping multiple rounds.
5. Any armored vehicle is only as good as it's driver.
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Old May 06, 2018, 19:57   #44
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Sounds like a full time mechanic in order.
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Old May 07, 2018, 15:37   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
Sounds like people have been watching too much TV.

The truth is this:

1. Armored glass degrades over time in UV rays.
2. Armored vehicles wear out very fast due to all the extra weight.
3. Not all armored vehicles are the same in quality and manufacturer.
4. Slapping up unsecured panels in car doors is not armor or effective at stopping multiple rounds.
5. Any armored vehicle is only as good as it's driver.
Door armor in both trucks is rigid armor that is bolted down using slightly modified kits that held them in the cop car doors. I work with polycarbonates almost daily and know it degrades with time, especially the abrasion resistant non laminated types. Glass clad materials such a Sericon and multi-layer polycarbonates with ultra hard, scratch resistant U.V. laminates last longer than some may think due to experience with materials from the past. The thing with me is have probably shot more of these materials than most have seen and realized what they are looking at.

Even when degrades enough to start "crayzing" its still usually 70% of its new capabilities. Have personally shot bank windows that were glass clad polycarbonate and total glass made in special processes and super thick to know what many do with age. Have shot 30+ year old soft body armor panels that were left either in back seat or trunk of cars in Florida for 30 years and still passed the specs for which it was rated at date of manufacture.

The steel going against cab inside of bed-liner of back will not degrade. The 3/4" Palguard U.V. Resistant laminate going inside of camper shell will get very little U.V. as cap only has a rear window, no side windows. Rear will be tinted abrasion resistant and will degrade over time but its job is to protect the inner piece from U.V. and make it more difficult for a thief to knock out rear window of cap and grab anything traveling with.

Wife's truck is a big diesel work truck that has been used for nothing but a grocery getter and will last longer than we will live. wont be adding enough weight for it to notice and the soft panels will be secured. the roll down window shades on side glass will operate on same theory as a bomb blanket and if take a hit will move significantly probably letting bullet skim across outer layers if sucks up any energy and diverts path any is better than nothing.

Besides each truck has a plate carrier with rifle plates and helmet on board in reach of driver. (yes I am paranoid but was five minutes in front of an active shooter in past week and in same room with two working church security) When I get in wife's truck add a second AR into second lock under back seat and pitch my rifle plate carrier and helmet from my truck into hers. Passenger can be passing out head gear and using rifle plates to barricade as much glass space as possible. Any soft armor placed inside of other trim panels will be secured in some manner and their will be a lot of gaps but if make rear of cab handgun resistant and take half the sting or more out of rifle rounds then our soft body armor and trauma panels will help along with helmets if have time to deploy.

I have a fair amount of 1/2" ballistic fiberglass (U.L. 762 Protocol Rated Level 6) which will stop a burst from a 9mm sub-machinegun which is about most you can reasonably get in a consumer grade armored vehicle as things like the Presidents "Beast" are not realistic as a commuter. Having run flat tires that can go down the road at 70 mph if punctured are huge tactical advantage in getting the crap out of the danger area if not pinned. If pinned having the ability to fight back is next best option as once the 6.8's or the 5.56 Flaming Pig starts running people will instinctively want to get away from us.

Whether some panels are able to stop multiple rounds or not, do not care. Will try to do in manner as much or it as possible will but if some just stops first round instead of it making contact with occupants it gives time to evade, escape and fight back. The panels in our doors are also rated to stop a burst from 9mm sub-machinegun but do not provide full coverage of door panel but cover over 70% of it. What is better? Some ballistic protection or none.

If we buy a dedicated ballistic rated car have discovered most used were parked in garages majority of life and inside parking decks while at work thus actual exposure to U.V. is less than half the average vehicle. As to wrenching, I can do brakes, rebuild axles, replace C.V. Joints and much more, While not a professional mechanic have my ASE (Automotive Service Excellence) certifications for Service Consultant, Maintenance and Light Repair, Automobile Technician, Medium/Heavy Truck Technician and Refrigerant Recovery & Recycling. Also have my DOT Air Brake Certification and EPA MVAC Certification along with an EPA 609 Universal Certification for all MVAC/HVAC systems.

Since I do most of our truck service unless its a big job or too busy and have most of the tools or more than a lot of mechanics if our vehicles are involved in an accident that involves litigation first thing opposing counsel is going to do is ask what my qualifications are to service and maintain my own fleet? When drag out all the ASE, DOT, EPA and OSHA certifications that now number close to 70 total Federal Certifications over a myriad of industries it shows I have a basic understanding of mechanical work and have the same certifications of the guys in the shops at most dealerships carry.

Unless its a major system failure I can probably fix myself and recently upgraded my OBD scanner as the one I had been using was no longer supported as of Dec 31st 2016. Bought a new scanner January of 2017 with ten years of updates that does engine, transmission, brake and chassis codes. Not as nice as a dealership machine but an $850 machine at jobber price. It scans Japanes and European models as well as American so should be able to keep a Benz basic service covered and my "real" mechanic worked at a Subaru dealership, Lotus Dealer, Nissan and Volkswagen in addition to Dodge and Ford before going out on his own. Half the dealerships in town take him their problem vehicles that their mechanics can't fix in-house.

So I can handle the mechanical, understand ballistics (also found a company that examines and replaces windows in older armored Mercedes and newer ones that have been damaged) and where their weaknesses are and at what point have degraded beyond having appropriate ballistic properties. on "glass", ploycarbonate, laminates and specialty blends untile they begin to color shift and show signs of cracking or spider webbing odds are they are still very close to their original specifications. It does not add huge weight to bring a vehicle to NIJ 3a or UL 762 Level 3/6. U.L. is odd as Levels 3 and 6 only deal with handguns or 9mm sub-machineguns (a drive by hit mans common weapon and why the rating) but Level 4 and 5 cover 7.62 projectiles and even odder is Level 4 is rated to 30-06 and level 5 is rated to 308 but not 9mm sub gun.

So until you jump to U.L. 7 which is 5.56 M193 your not really rifle rated but if I can take a lot of the sting out of them and possibly change the path of a rifle bullet feel have done best we can and fact wife and I both wear soft body armor into the city that adds to our chances of surviving an attack. We have not purchased a vehicle since 2001 and have no intention of buying a new anything anytime soon but if find a decent condition armored S Class Mercedes or similar at fair price will add it to the fleet. If these packages were not somewhat popular Mercedes would not offer as a factory option.

Odd thing is most add on armor package companies are located in Texas though found a couple in metro ATL area, wife has been wanting to go to Texas and I have family in San Antonio would like to see so before I go too far going to get a couple bids on basic sides, firewall and radiator and rear of cab protection. Not worried much about the roof or floorboards as its very seldom old folks going to the doctor are engaged from helicopters or have grenades rolled under their vehicles.
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Old May 08, 2018, 13:52   #46
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Some of the best cars I see come through my place are E320s and E350s. Usually with plenty of miles, and every single one of them tighter than a drum.

Simply put, just good, unassuming, extremely well built but unexciting cars.
My kind of car.
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Old May 09, 2018, 15:23   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExCdnSoldierInTx View Post
Some of the best cars I see come through my place are E320s and E350s. Usually with plenty of miles, and every single one of them tighter than a drum.

Simply put, just good, unassuming, extremely well built but unexciting cars.
My kind of car.
Most of the armored Mercedes we have looked at were very bland colors, usually grey, silver or black but mostly grey and silver. Except for a Mercedes badge no shiny bling and usually in their more average man's series, not the high profile G models and such. Been taking wife to doctors visits every single day this week. Not made it to work but a couple hours yesterday and still in doctors today but managed to find some cool stuff while sitting in waiting rooms or exam rooms.

Found a vendor with 18"x24" NIJ Level IIIa Dyneema ballistic panels. They had rigid and semi-rigid panels for a slight price increase on semi-rigid. Have a bunch of both in 6"x9" and 8"x12" trauma panels and know if remove from covers they are only about 1/4" thick. Were not cheap but vendor didn't really know what had as were priced cheaper than 1/2" U.L. Level 3 ballistic fiberglass per square foot. Bought all the panels they had which were enough to pretty well armor two truck cabs from window sills to floorboards. Considering we have panels in doors already will likely use some of these to double up in high threat areas like the doors, can fasten between sheet metal and the police car panels right at main passenger area doubling amount of ballistic material protecting thighs, hips and waste.

Dyneema is so light don't even have to worry about it wearing out door hinges and lock mechanisms due to swinging excessive weight. Reinforcing hinges is a huge issue when armoring doors and at house had to use full length piano hinges and add more framing while drywall was out so they would not warp frames and start dragging. Recently replaced master bedroom door and had to pull drywall to first stud either side and ceiling to reinforce framing using a laminated beam for a header and steel between jack plates and triple studs as new bedroom door weighs 380 pounds by only scale I have that goes that high. Old door was 10 minute force entry rated but was only 32" and hard to get wifes wheelchair throigh.

Widened all exterior doors when purchased house and most interior doors but bedroom doors width was limited to what security rated doors had access to which was 32" but head of maintenance at hospital gave me a pair of 34" high security force rated entry ballistic doors that came off room they store weapons for security team and narcotic drugs as OSHA pulled a tape measure and were not the 40" width that are required in medical facilities by ADA standards. While there had been no complaints as no security officers are in wheelchairs and apparently nobody in anesthesia department either but had to replace a few doors to secure areas in the old part of the building that dates back to original exterior walls that had been left as interior walls as hospital expanded over the years. These doorways were steel frames set in masonry and cost them a chunk of money to remove the drywall then have concrete cutting contractor come in and cut the openings larger based on engineers calculation for steel reinforcing to support the weight.

Next time you see your $25,000 per day hospital bill will know why it cost so much. Have to spend close to $100,000 to replace a few doors. About a decade ago Medicare stopped paying for mobile scans and had a local doctor donate two bone density scanning machines he had in R.V.'s sent to old folks homes so didn't have to bring them to office. Now instead of machine going to facilities we now pay for patients to be transported in ambulances for their scans. Hospital had a mobile x-ray vehicle that had lead lined walls, lead lined side and rear door on a F-650 chassis with V-10 gas burner and less than 8,000 miles. They donated it to us as well and wished I could have kept it (actually could have as I issue the donation letters and nobody knew we had it till I mentioned it in a board meeting) but brought it to work and removed lead lining, lead doors (unsure what happened to those ) x-ray machine and converted it to a mobile clinic and sent it to Moldova where we keep it staffed with volunteer doctors on rotation doing free medical care from town to town. Sent x-ray machine to a medical missionary living in Bolivia so most of the waste that our hospital has gets put to good use helping people around U.S. and the world.

Because of this relationship do get a lot of odd high security doors and such we can't really send to other countries and they wouldn't have use for so I weigh and donate the mixed scrap value back to our medical ministry. Did have a small church that did give two of the five doors to help secure their childrens areas from forcible entry and their staff and kids parents know that once last kid is checked in that doors are locked till time for parents to come get them. All but one of my interior security doors came from hospital and could have gone to churches if they had been concerned about it ten and twenty years ago. Our exterior doors are blems from a dot gov and prison supplier of security doors and equipment. I have thought about armoring my home and business for 30 plus years and my vehicles for a decade plus.
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Old May 12, 2018, 17:12   #48
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This is crazy, I have a 15 minute seven Mile commute from work to house. In past week police have found three dead bodies on abandoned lots or behind businesses on my commute. Yesterday there was a road rage incident with two more people killed at only major intersection I have to make a turn. Thats five killed in a week along my seven Mile commute route and a severe car sniper attack on road I drive almost daily last week within minutes of me going through same area. Major crime is up 61% in past year and murders up 68% here in Mayberry and I think going to Atlanta is dangerous.
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Old May 14, 2018, 10:44   #49
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You attract what you fear
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Old May 14, 2018, 14:05   #50
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You attract what you fear
If that were true would have spent my life working in a cubicle. I do not fear being shot and especially do not fear dying. Spent majority of my life climbing cliffs, frozen waterfalls and high altitude mountains without ropes as much as roped with partners and teams. Highly preferred climbing unroped due to freedom of being alone with entire mind and body fully concentration on task at hand. Enjoyed back country skiing and skiing off some of the mountains I climbed as well with some of my ski descents being first person to attempt or attempt and survive in the Andes.

Made mistake of taking a new set of boots and skis right off the production line with request to somehow get pictures for their advertising department. Launched off an 18,000 foot acclimatization peak and when went to make first turn they would not sit on their edge and turn. The boots had a special hinge that allowed them to flex when climbing and was supposed to lock them up stiff like a standard ski boot which the mechanism had packed with snow that melted while climbing and refroze while ate lunch and took pictures on summit. Locked hinges, locked boots into bindings and launched with a group climbing a lower and easier peak next to me taking pictures. No matter how much force I tried to transfer into skis the boots just flexed and skis kept tracking down the glacier toward a 2,000 foot cliff. Finally had to throw myself down and lay on pick of ice axe in emergency self arrest which axe pick finally found some hard enough snow to get a bite and stop me 200 feet from edge of cliff. Climbed back to summit, taped up boots with duct tape and launched again. Didn't work much better but did work good enough the photographer on team watching got two shots that company was able to use.

Been in the biggest shooting gallery on planet for rockfall which is first 500 to 800 feet of North Face of the Eiger. Never feared being shot but am always prepared for the possibility, try to mitigate chances of it happening and if does be prepared to treat myself till medical help arrives. Have had guns pointed at me three times in about three years doing my job working on side of road with each event being an elderly Alzheimer's or demensia patient left unsupervised in house with loaded gun. Now I know why there are certain questions on a 4473 and why doctors can inform law enforcement if know you own firearms and may be a threat to yourself or others. Hope it never happens but if my ability to discern reality from imagination hope someone locks up my guns in manner can't get to them and forget where the emergency stashes are hidden.

How can fear, which I have awareness of current threats, not paranoia or fear cause some guy from North Metro area to drive to highway am about to be on in about a half hour after finish this post and fire 17 rounds into 7 cars hitting two people one of which is a friend about 5 to 10 minutes after I go through same intersection? How can my trying to be prepared for chance of being victim in shooting which are daily events cause three people to be found dead of gunshof wounds within site of my daily commute past week plus two killed in road rage incident 3 miles from house on way to work? In my opinion it justifies my concern and desire to take steps to limit danger and amount of bodily injury if in wrong place at wrong time. Last week there were two road rage incidents resulting in shootings on road I have concern about and many more in other areas around Metro Atlanta. Wife and I watched two vehicles Friday on our way to Atlanta swapping paint and sideswiping each other likely over nothing. A decade ago had little to no concerns about this issue but seems like number of events are doubling every year over past decade till it's something if don't take seriously it's like having a swimming pool in back yard and not teaching your kids to swim. Are we supposed to just keep going up and down the road not recognizing threat level has gone way up requiring a new level of awareness and possibly increasing the protection you vehicle is capable of? Seat belt and air bag technology has improved significantly why not look at ballistic capabilities, Ford is about to release a new ballistic protection level of police cars, bet that morphs into consumer line as well. Mercedes has been doing it for decades. I feel it's time to put my wife behind ballistic glass if can make it fiscally possible.
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