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Old August 31, 2019, 12:21   #1
Necro_Atrum
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Fal Barrel Undertiming

Hello all.

I'm in the process of building an Imbel kit with a pars receiver. I'm running into trouble timing the barrel. It seem to hand time around the 11 o clock area. My problem arises when I start to torque the barrel. I'm hitting 200 ft lbs before I can get my timing rods lined up. I can get the rods to around 11:30 but again I'm hitting 200 ft lbs at that point.

Here is it hand tight.





Unfortunately I didn't snap a pic to where I was able to tighten the barrel.
I did color in some of the surfaces with a black sharpie and hand tighten it afterwards though.







As far as I can tell the barrel breech face isn't making contact with the receiver.
Where should I go from here? Start sanding?
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Old August 31, 2019, 14:49   #2
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It should twist up from hand tight from there. How do you know you are at 200lbft?
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Old August 31, 2019, 14:52   #3
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I'm using a snap on digital torque wrench. I've been looking around for a max torque range but cant seem to find anything definitive. 200 definitely felt like too much though.
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Old August 31, 2019, 15:14   #4
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A little advice. Those threads look dry. Put some anti seize on them. Also screw a gas nut into the threads and put a charging handle in the slot back wards. Go back and forth with tightening to see if you gain a little. I'm with HK that it should go, but 200 is a lot. I'd use a small file round on one side and flat on the other to just dress up any high spots on the barrel shoulder as it looks like there may be some from the pics. Take it slow

See if you can slip a feeler gauge between the barrel face and the receiver to verify that it's clearing.
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Old August 31, 2019, 16:46   #5
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Alright. Thank you gentlemen. I'm gonna give it another go as soon as I get the chance.
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Old August 31, 2019, 17:31   #6
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Looks like from the pics that you don't have a vise or a press readily available. They are requisite. One time I went to the Jiffy Lube down the street and used theirs. Smeared the flats. No bench with vice is ok. HF has a 12 ton press that is about a buck with a coupon. You don't have to use the bolts on the barrel vise.
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Old August 31, 2019, 22:38   #7
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I have noticed that many Imbel barrel shoulders have an abrupt taper inward, which gives the illusion that the shoulder is not flush with the receiver during timing.
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Old September 01, 2019, 13:18   #8
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Thank you all. I ended doing a little filing on the barrel. Got it time at around 130 ft lbs. I actually do have a vise and a press, just had better lighting in my room. It would be interesting trying to do this without a vise.
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Old September 02, 2019, 11:22   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Necro_Atrum View Post
It would be interesting trying to do this without a vise.
Congrats on the barreling!

Not hard to do without a vise. Rats used to sell a mounting plate for his barrel Vise. I have one bolted to a 6' 4x4. Works fine, but it would be nice to have a second pair of eyes to check the alignment.
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Old September 02, 2019, 17:45   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAINER View Post
Congrats on the barreling!

Not hard to do without a vise. Rats used to sell a mounting plate for his barrel Vise. I have one bolted to a 6' 4x4. Works fine, but it would be nice to have a second pair of eyes to check the alignment.
Same here. It makes a great portable kit when you are trying to help out somebody else with a build. A long time ago. somebody posted a pic of their Ratas vise bolted to the bumper of their Jeep. What ever works.
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Old September 02, 2019, 23:36   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAINER View Post
Congrats on the barreling!

Not hard to do without a vise. Rats used to sell a mounting plate for his barrel Vise. I have one bolted to a 6' 4x4. Works fine, but it would be nice to have a second pair of eyes to check the alignment.
They were large, heavy, and hard to sell. Plus the manufacturer used a forming instead of a cutting tap for the threaded holes, made the bolts hard to start.
Could easily get longer bolts and go through one or two 2x4s, long ones for leverage, large washers, and probably make it work.
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Old September 05, 2019, 16:03   #12
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get sanding disc and open up the hole





Pics come from cruffler website. That might just be your ticket to smoothly and consistently removing any high spots. Apply the rough side to both recvr and barrel. I tend to believe the barrel has to be the culprit but you never know. I used this to time a barrel once even though I had an engine lathe. I'd do it again too.
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Old September 07, 2019, 21:13   #13
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Precisely the same problem led me here....

I was able to hand time a DSA Type 1 to about 11:00. But this proved to be one of my most challenging barrel jobs.

The insights gained here let me to file the shoulder flats. Gun Plumber described a method that runs a straight file, cutting slightly in a hexagonal fashion, until the entire radius is filed down some what to remove raised edges and such.

I also chased out the receiver threads more than once.

Chased out the barrel threads.

Found some contact with an inner face of the receiver that met with the breech flat face of the barrel. Dremel came in handy to smooth flat face a thousandth.

Edge of the barrel breech outer radius rounded that edge with a file a bit.

Was able to wrench it with no resistance finally. Took me three attempts setting up the vise. In the end I got results and did not mar the work too much. Cold blue and some cleaning fluid made it like new.
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Old September 09, 2019, 10:31   #14
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barrel

I line my receiver wrench with stick on Velcro . Using the fuzzy side.
Works great.
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Old September 12, 2019, 08:51   #15
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Great idea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas View Post
I line my receiver wrench with stick on Velcro . Using the fuzzy side.
Works great.
And if one does not have stick on Velcro, the fuzzy side, apply it with some DAP Contact Cement! I have loads of scrap from old gear.
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Old September 12, 2019, 10:11   #16
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Electrical tape wrapped around the receiver with sticky side out works great for protection also. Comes off easy too.
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Old September 12, 2019, 10:35   #17
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Electrical tape wrapped around the receiver with sticky side out works great for protection also. Comes off easy too.
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