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Old May 16, 2018, 22:09   #1
Gary Harwell
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$2.8 Trillion...

..and no end anywhere in sight, for that matter, look for expansion of spending and boots in Syria one day. Asymmetrical war at its best, $100 suicide bombers vs. $14mil cruise missiles.
The real loss is freedoms since this all started. If you were born before the 60s you know what I'm saying.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-has...nds-1526486451


One day this is going to turn into serious money.
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Old May 16, 2018, 22:30   #2
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A lot of guys around here will tell you it's not real money
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Old May 16, 2018, 22:55   #3
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Old May 17, 2018, 00:01   #4
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A lot of guys around here will tell you it's not real money
It's real money until it's not.
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Old May 17, 2018, 03:05   #5
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A lot of guys around here will tell you it's not real money
It's as real as folks think it is.

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It's real money until it's not.
Maybe even a better way to say it. The real danger of printing these sorts of quantities of script is it risks folks catching on, asking themselves 'now how the hell can that be, how can they just whistle that sort of money up out of thin air?'.

And once they do that it's all downhill.
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Old May 17, 2018, 06:52   #6
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So who does this benefit, and who authorizes more worthless paper?
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Old May 17, 2018, 06:53   #7
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It's as real as folks think it is.



Maybe even a better way to say it. The real danger of printing these sorts of quantities of script is it risks folks catching on, asking themselves 'now how the hell can that be, how can they just whistle that sort of money up out of thin air?'.

And once they do that it's all downhill.
I'd wager 3/4 of the country is asleep at the switch when it comes to economics.
Regular citizens don't have reference points to understand a trillion, let alone understand the implications of the numbers.
I post this again, for posterity.

A Trillion Dollars:

You start a business the day Jesus was born.
You suck at it and lose 1 million dollars, every day until now.
You still haven't lost a trillion yet...not even close, at ~730 billion.

You start throwing dollar bills in a pile the day Jesus was born at a rate of one per second.
You've been doing it every second of every minute of every hour of every day since.
You still haven't piled up a trillion dollars yet...not even close, at ~63 billion.

*check my math, please and I'm counting twenty eighteen as a full year in the equations.
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Old May 17, 2018, 07:17   #8
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I'd wager 3/4 of the country is asleep at the switch when it comes to economics.
Regular citizens don't have reference points to understand a trillion, let alone understand the implications of the numbers.
I post this again, for posterity.

A Trillion Dollars:

You start a business the day Jesus was born.
You suck at it and lose 1 million dollars, every day until now.
You still haven't lost a trillion yet...not even close, at ~730 billion.

You start throwing dollar bills in a pile the day Jesus was born at a rate of one per second.
You've been doing it every second of every minute of every hour of every day since.
You still haven't piled up a trillion dollars yet...not even close, at ~63 billion.

*check my math, please and I'm counting twenty eighteen as a full year in the equations.
Won't bother to check the math, I'm sure it's right. And even if it weren't it's close enough for, as they say, government work.

The thing is all money is based on confidence which makes it a confidence game. All money, and the 'all' part is worth repeating for the slow learners. Doesn't matter what it allegedly is based on whether it's land, cockle shells or shiny metals. At the end of the day it's based on confidence that you can get something back in exchange for it that is equivalent in value to what you exchanged for it in the first place.

In the 1800s and into the early days of the 20th century banks commonly issued their own notes, hence the term 'bank notes'. These were backed by the banks assets, typically real estate that the bank held mortgages on. These bank notes were not unlike stock certificates in many respects because they were secured by the assets of the issuers. But this proved problematic because the perceived value of these notes would swing wildly along with the perceived value of the land and the periodic oscillations of the real estate market would cause cascades of bank failures. Those who think that backing currency with this or that should take a real good look at the history of banking from the civil war to 1913, and it's safe to say that backing an issue with this or that commodity is not the panacea many who have grown up with this 'full faith and credit' crap think it is.

So after the big one in 1907 folks understandably decided to look at alternatives. What folks came up with was an idea to issue money based on essentially nothing at all, the idea being to limit the creation of new money to an amount equivalent to the growth of the economy. This way prices would remain stable, if there were X dollars covering Y goods and services this year and next year the US produced 1.1Y goods and services, an additional 10% of money would be injected into the economy and prices would remain stable as the ratio of money to GDP would remain the same.

Or so went the sales pitch anyway. In reality this production of new money allowed the banks to siphon off the additional 10% of production rather than kicking it back to the folks who produced it, causing living standards to stagnate. Whats worse is the bankers, being the rats they are weren't satisfied with tying their profits to the growth in the economy. They started fudging the numbers, changing the rules and (who couldn't see this one coming) agitating for more spending to churn things with the goal of generating an even larger economy. Wars are a really good way to do this, and as it was we got involved in a really big one not long after this system was adopted. And I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that I ain't the only one who has trouble coming up with another reason we dived into that one.

But yeah, as soon as folks start asking questions like 'trillions, really? How is that possible' they'll start thinking about this and if they are honest and open they'll arrive at these answers sooner or later. And it's likely to really piss 'em off once they figure it out. And who knows what they might do when they figure out they've been robbed continuously over the last hundred years by an unholy alliance between their own government and the international banking cartels.

As I said, all downhill from there.
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Old May 17, 2018, 08:42   #9
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But yeah, as soon as folks start asking questions like 'trillions, really? How is that possible' they'll start thinking about this and if they are honest and open they'll arrive at these answers sooner or later. And it's likely to really piss 'em off once they figure it out. And who knows what they might do when they figure out they've been robbed continuously over the last hundred years by an unholy alliance between their own government and the international banking cartels.

As I said, all downhill from there.
Intractable apathy is the enemy of positive progress.
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Old May 17, 2018, 09:05   #10
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Intractable apathy is the enemy of positive progress.
Well put.
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Old May 17, 2018, 09:39   #11
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So who does this benefit, and who authorizes more worthless paper?
Worthless paper? Is most of our money even printed anymore? At this point I figured most of it was just a serious of numbers in some computer somewhere?
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Old May 17, 2018, 09:52   #12
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Worthless paper? Is most of our money even printed anymore? At this point I figured most of it was just a serious of numbers in some computer somewhere?
Good point. You know I remember years ago reading in a now defunct newspaper (hardly MSM) about how the Army was gonna try paying some soldiers buy adding dollars to a card, similar to a credit card. This card would simply be swiped as purchases were made, and every payday the .gov would add "money" to the card.
I knew it was ridiculous, and who in their right mind would want such a scheme? Of course, this was tinfoil-hat stuff and would never come true.....
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Old May 17, 2018, 10:18   #13
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So who does this benefit, and who authorizes more worthless paper?
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Worthless paper? Is most of our money even printed anymore? At this point I figured most of it was just a serious of numbers in some computer somewhere?
Worthless? Really? Well if you really think that why don't you just take all of it that you have, stick it in an envelope and send it my way? In fact PM me your names and addresses and I'll send ya a SASE with postage paid.

No? Well then I take it this whole 'worthless' thing is rhetorical? Ok but understand that when ya do that you divert clock cycles in the ol' brain from doing any work which might be of value, for example evaluating what the nature of money really is and how to establish a better system than the one that has run the world and allowed standards of living across the globe to increase demonstrably over the last hundred years while the populations themselves have multiplied by an order of magnitude or so.

Not meaning to rain on anyone's parade but to call the FRS a fraud and to suggest that the money that is out there today is somehow 'worthless' is not the same thing. Not even close.
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Old May 17, 2018, 10:35   #14
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Being simple minded it's hard to grasp what some of you are saying so putting it in my own simple minded logic, it's money until nobody takes it in exchange for goods and services. You can call it script or whatever but folks still take it and it's real until they dont.
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Old May 17, 2018, 10:36   #15
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Being simple minded it's hard to grasp what some of you are saying so putting it in my own simple minded logic, it's money until nobody takes it in exchange for goods and services. You can call it script or whatever but folks still take it and it's real until they dont.
It is just exactly that simple. And that complicated. Both are true .
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Old May 17, 2018, 20:32   #16
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The hefty check I wrote to IRS a few weeks ago was deducted from my real bank account, so i consider it real money, lost earnings if you will.

Some contractor/company sold a small missile to the govenment, who then sent them a check covered by my tax contribution. Simple enough for my simple mind. I can choose to decide in my mind how my earnings were wasted. Someday, though unlikely, the trillion dollar numbers will sink in to future generations. Unless of course one of this big misses changes the course of life for them.

Remember, 50% or more of the steeple pay no taxes, they only consume them. So this is a non-sensical story for them to worry about. The other 50%, well ,remains to be seen, but troubles brewing.
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Old May 17, 2018, 22:18   #17
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well, truth is stranger than fiction and the truth makes you think that the tinfoil hat brigade has run amuck and taken over .........

just a few sticking points along the way .......


The Meeting at Jekyll Island
https://www.federalreservehistory.or...and_conference

now understand Woodrow Wilson did so much damage to the country that Calvin Coolidge took a hard hit and turned the country around in 2 years

Herbert Hoover tried to keep up what Coolidge did but just could not

FDRs 1933 Gold Confiscation was a Bailout of the Federal Reserve Bank
https://www.moonlightmint.com/bailout.htm

FDR was such a fanboy of Wilson he plunged the country farther and deeper into the depression to the point that it was actually the mid 1960's until the country really rebounded

and of course Johnson pulled the country deep into his own shitstorm

Nixon Ends Convertibility of US Dollars to Gold and Announces Wage/Price Controls
https://www.federalreservehistory.or...rtibility_ends


Ronald Regan meant well with his "plunge protection team" but as is usual it was misused by others and began to make things worse

the dot-com bubble got kicked down the road, followed by the 2007-09 disaster that has been kicked down the road just like a kid w/ a tin can

and we have too many idiots pushing the socialism crap, but we know it does not work, 'cause you always run out of everyone else's money
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Old May 17, 2018, 22:20   #18
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Hillary and democrats in general,pose a far greater threat to this nation than Assad ever could have dreamed in his wildest fantasies.
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Old May 17, 2018, 22:36   #19
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The hefty check I wrote to IRS a few weeks ago was deducted from my real bank account, so i consider it real money, lost earnings if you will.

Some contractor/company sold a small missile to the govenment, who then sent them a check covered by my tax contribution. Simple enough for my simple mind. I can choose to decide in my mind how my earnings were wasted. Someday, though unlikely, the trillion dollar numbers will sink in to future generations. Unless of course one of this big misses changes the course of life for them.

Remember, 50% or more of the steeple pay no taxes, they only consume them. So this is a non-sensical story for them to worry about. The other 50%, well ,remains to be seen, but troubles brewing.
You better fork over some more for the $20 million spent on Trump collusion and some to hide Hillary.
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Old May 18, 2018, 13:07   #20
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In 1935 the cost of living was much different than today.
A new V-8 Ford Cost $500
Average Cost of new house $3,450.00 Average wages per year $1,600.00.
Cost of a gallon of Gas 10 cents.
Average Cost for house rent $22.00 per month.
A loaf of Bread 8 cents.
My dad cowboyed and rougnecked for less than the national wage average,,, when a possibility down in Texas,,,, just say'in.

Comparatively I never had it so good.
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Old May 18, 2018, 14:55   #21
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In 1935 the cost of living was much different than today.
A new V-8 Ford Cost $500
Average Cost of new house $3,450.00 Average wages per year $1,600.00.
Cost of a gallon of Gas 10 cents.
Average Cost for house rent $22.00 per month.
A loaf of Bread 8 cents.
My dad cowboyed and rougnecked for less than the national wage average,,, when a possibility down in Texas,,,, just say'in.

Comparatively I never had it so good.
It's the slow boil. They're banking (literally) on the frogs never noticing. As to never having it so good, well that would depend on what you were pulling down at the time, but a new home costing about 2.5 your annual salary isn't too far off the average today. Of course there are some who insist on going outside of that but those are the knuckleheads.
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Old May 18, 2018, 18:58   #22
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It's the slow boil. They're banking (literally) on the frogs never noticing. As to never having it so good, well that would depend on what you were pulling down at the time, but a new home costing about 2.5 your annual salary isn't too far off the average today. Of course there are some who insist on going outside of that but those are the knuckleheads.
My house was $18,000 when it was built in 1978, the house across the street sold for $260,000 that was built the same time as mine and is very similar. Inflation is just more tax money for government but one day the house market will be out of reach. Then apartments and before long you have 100,000 people homeless sleeping on the streets like kali.
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Old May 19, 2018, 21:19   #23
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People who can't stand to watch other useless lazy people starve to death will pay high taxes and complain or vote Democrat.
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