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Old February 01, 2018, 21:31   #1
Sagerider
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German 98k information fun

I was surfing the other day and decided to look for Mauser 98k information. I looked for codes to determine where they were made and by who. I also looked to find out what the differences are, there are a few, and some examples are the change to the laminated stock, change from flat butt plate vs cupped butt plate or why some have no cleaning rod and no place for one under the barrel. When they were made can be interesting to the history buff as variations changed from one to another as the then conditions of the times varied and declined. The Germans developed codes stamped into the reciever in an attempt to maintain some security of factory locations during the war. For an amateur collector or serious collector alike lots to know.
These rifles have a history that is interesting technically and in the human aspect as well. Do your own search and enjoy reading and viewing examples. The Mosin-Nagant is another fun rifle to investigate too as to who, where, when and why.
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I live alone in the middle of nowhere with two dogs and a cat, what do you think about that.

The wind blows, the rain falls, the flag snaps its bravery in the dark as two dogs boil for attention at my feet.

Of course it is a true story. You just couldn't make up something like that, no way.
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Old February 02, 2018, 14:16   #2
K. Funk
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I started collecting codes a few years ago. If I recall correctly, I think I have one from every year 1934-1945 with some fairly rare codes. I have at least 1 660, CE, AR, BCD, BYF, BNZ, DOU, DOT, S/42K, S/42G, 27, 337 and some others. I have 3 that are all matching. They are getting fewer and far between at local auctions. I had a source of stocks out of the Netherlands that had all matching hardware. I would put these stocks on all matching actions that had been sporterized resulting in 2 number guns. The stock supply has since dried up. The story behind them is fascinating.

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Old February 02, 2018, 21:09   #3
gew98
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I collected 98k's and variants of wartime German rifles/pistols for 20 + years. Got burned out on it over a decade ago. So much fraud and fantasy "items" wandered and were introduced into the field...many times by alleged advanced collectors like Jensen for example. Waters got really muddied and prospectors all fought sanity with their gray area Nazi stuff like it was all gold. Then it seemed too many closet Nazis over time , and the noobs that bought renumbered /doctored guns and for the money they paid any naysayer was full of shit.... limited critical thinking on their part by far. The late author of backbone of the Wehrmacht and sniper variations didn't help at all with the spurious weapons from known charlatans. I could go on and name drop etc etc... but it bores me anymore.
I had a lot of fun learning and collecting german military rifles many years ago before it became vogue and as now utterly fugging expensive. Anybody that has dabbled into Nazi daggers, pistols , helmets , caps etc etc knows exactly what I say is true. For example the fraud in german helmets is so bad... it's bad . Just don't take my word for it.
What really turned me away from it all was trying to help guys getting into the "field" and they just could not take the critique of what was bad wrong with their purchase(s).... more and more the money they spent made it right and any old hand to tell them otherwise was an idiot. I learned what several older more advanced collectors I ran with had learned long before. I always kinda ribbed them for not letting guys get burned and or not giving an honest take on an item. They got the same flak for speaking truth and got tired of hearing stupid shit. I eventually gave up trying to help those that would not see nor hear too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagerider View Post
I was surfing the other day and decided to look for Mauser 98k information. I looked for codes to determine where they were made and by who. I also looked to find out what the differences are, there are a few, and some examples are the change to the laminated stock, change from flat butt plate vs cupped butt plate or why some have no cleaning rod and no place for one under the barrel. When they were made can be interesting to the history buff as variations changed from one to another as the then conditions of the times varied and declined. The Germans developed codes stamped into the reciever in an attempt to maintain some security of factory locations during the war. For an amateur collector or serious collector alike lots to know.
These rifles have a history that is interesting technically and in the human aspect as well. Do your own search and enjoy reading and viewing examples. The Mosin-Nagant is another fun rifle to investigate too as to who, where, when and why.
__________________
The vice of capitolism is it's unequal sharing of blessings.
The Virtue of Socialism is it's equal sharing of MISERY.
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1) Culture builds upon the past
2) The past always tries to control the future.
3) Our future is becoming less free
4) To build free societies you must limit control of the past.

All hail lord IMPOTUS and Darth Biden All hail.
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Old February 03, 2018, 14:16   #4
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I only have two, one made in 1939 and one made in 1944. Neither are what I would call clean, matching everything. I replaced the bolt on the 1939 rifle, still have the original bolt, because it was in sad shape, pitted badly.
Mine are shooter types, not pretty, not collectible for anyone other than me but very interesting to me alone. Both are very accurate in my opinion and fun to shoot with excellent bores.
The 1939 rifle has the stays open after the last round follower and the 1944 rifle has the tapered floor plate that allows the bolt to close. I wonder why this change was made, it seems better to me to have the bolt locked open if the rifle is empty. I was told the 1944 rifle was a bring back but there is no paperwork. The story was the rifle was brought back by grand father and been in the family for years. Everything matches except the trigger guard assembly. The 1939 rifle was supposed to be a Russian capture but all the proof marks are still intact. It looks as though it did experience the Russian dip treatment.
I did have a Julianna from Holland but like a dumb ass I traded it off for a Colt Gold Cup and cash. I have neither the Gold Cup, cash or the Julianna. I would like to get the Julianna back but that one is long gone now. In a time of remorse I bought one of the Mitchel, gag, short rifles that looks just like the Julianna but it falls short of the Belgian FN made Julianna’s slick as mole fur action. It is a handy little rifle and would never feel lacking while hiking around Montana.
__________________
The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.

Matthew 25:1 thru 25:10 Be ready!

The written word sometimes like poetry is never really finished but merely abandoned.

I live alone in the middle of nowhere with two dogs and a cat, what do you think about that.

The wind blows, the rain falls, the flag snaps its bravery in the dark as two dogs boil for attention at my feet.

Of course it is a true story. You just couldn't make up something like that, no way.
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Old February 07, 2018, 20:45   #5
gew98
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The 98k as made from 1934 through 1945 never had a follower that did not stop the bolt. It is either from a gew98 , or has been modified by a bubba. The Gew98 and kar98a did not have a bolt hold open follower. Exception being in the Weimar period followers were cut so that they did stop the bolt when empty. Had a ce44 that was mostly mismatch with a pitted bore... but man could that thing shoot. Was one point , aim and hit rifle. Can't always judge a book by it's cover.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagerider View Post
I only have two, one made in 1939 and one made in 1944. Neither are what I would call clean, matching everything. I replaced the bolt on the 1939 rifle, still have the original bolt, because it was in sad shape, pitted badly.
Mine are shooter types, not pretty, not collectible for anyone other than me but very interesting to me alone. Both are very accurate in my opinion and fun to shoot with excellent bores.
The 1939 rifle has the stays open after the last round follower and the 1944 rifle has the tapered floor plate that allows the bolt to close. I wonder why this change was made, it seems better to me to have the bolt locked open if the rifle is empty. I was told the 1944 rifle was a bring back but there is no paperwork. The story was the rifle was brought back by grand father and been in the family for years. Everything matches except the trigger guard assembly. The 1939 rifle was supposed to be a Russian capture but all the proof marks are still intact. It looks as though it did experience the Russian dip treatment.
I did have a Julianna from Holland but like a dumb ass I traded it off for a Colt Gold Cup and cash. I have neither the Gold Cup, cash or the Julianna. I would like to get the Julianna back but that one is long gone now. In a time of remorse I bought one of the Mitchel, gag, short rifles that looks just like the Julianna but it falls short of the Belgian FN made Julianna’s slick as mole fur action. It is a handy little rifle and would never feel lacking while hiking around Montana.
__________________
The vice of capitolism is it's unequal sharing of blessings.
The Virtue of Socialism is it's equal sharing of MISERY.
Winston Churchill

1) Culture builds upon the past
2) The past always tries to control the future.
3) Our future is becoming less free
4) To build free societies you must limit control of the past.

All hail lord IMPOTUS and Darth Biden All hail.
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Old February 07, 2018, 22:53   #6
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I have a BNZ42 that the Israeli's ended up with, has the Nazi eagle and Hebrew markings. Rebarreled in .308.
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Old February 08, 2018, 16:45   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gew98 View Post
I collected 98k's and variants of wartime German rifles/pistols for 20 + years. Got burned out on it over a decade ago. So much fraud and fantasy "items" wandered and were introduced into the field...many times by alleged advanced collectors like Jensen for example. Waters got really muddied and prospectors all fought sanity with their gray area Nazi stuff like it was all gold. Then it seemed too many closet Nazis over time , and the noobs that bought renumbered /doctored guns and for the money they paid any naysayer was full of shit.... limited critical thinking on their part by far. The late author of backbone of the Wehrmacht and sniper variations didn't help at all with the spurious weapons from known charlatans. I could go on and name drop etc etc... but it bores me anymore.
I had a lot of fun learning and collecting german military rifles many years ago before it became vogue and as now utterly fugging expensive. Anybody that has dabbled into Nazi daggers, pistols , helmets , caps etc etc knows exactly what I say is true. For example the fraud in german helmets is so bad... it's bad . Just don't take my word for it.
What really turned me away from it all was trying to help guys getting into the "field" and they just could not take the critique of what was bad wrong with their purchase(s).... more and more the money they spent made it right and any old hand to tell them otherwise was an idiot. I learned what several older more advanced collectors I ran with had learned long before. I always kinda ribbed them for not letting guys get burned and or not giving an honest take on an item. They got the same flak for speaking truth and got tired of hearing stupid shit. I eventually gave up trying to help those that would not see nor hear too.
^^^ALL OF THIS^^^

Good Example:

Pops recently decided to unload some items he accumulated years ago, talking 1970s Vet purchases. Back then there was not a huge markup in SS related items, nobody was faking that crap.

So a few years ago he hauls out a Luger engraved with the Deaths Head on the receiver extension, obviously a no date gun but S42 Toggle assm and a 2nd series Radom P35 with SS frame stampings and the original Bosnian Crested holster. Sticks them on the tables.

Had several thirty something nosepickers scoff at them as OBVIOUS frauds
Heck he paid like $70.00 for the Radom years ago.

The Luger had it's capture Documentation. Like a 175.00 piece in 1978. Old guy was in the Quartermaster Corps, swapped a carton of Lucky Strikes for it in late 45'

Thing is the younger generation is been so totally soured by the fakery and frauds that they rely completely on web based retardation and there is just a ton of it.

Same with the Waffenampted 1914 "Colt 1911"
There are a few Nazi inspected M1 Carbines out there as well as a good share of what we dropped into Euro resistance was captured by the Nazis

Those two were eventually re-homed to non idiots who were not caught up in the Band of Brothers mystique.

98' Mausers were once as you note dirt cheap
What was seriously desireable were the 1909 exports, just beautifully made, popular for sporting conversions
Overall K98s were seen as much poorer quality but back then you had a hard time just giving Nagants away.

Up through the early 90s Nazi proofing/acceptance marks/codes meant nothing. Serious collectors wanted Commercial Walthers or early HiPowers and Radoms. Not Nazi production garbage. I am blown away at the prices 3rd Series Radoms now bring and it's all due to romantic BS mostly by younger folks

I guess I'm like meh' when someone proudly shows me a Soviet Capture K98 that's been struck out, mismatched, electro penned and finished in a muddy blue like I should be all impressed
I am less impressed when they think it's worth nearly a grand and they expect to trade it against something honest we have.
I see a hundred dollar piece of crap that we will never get our money out of.
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Old February 08, 2018, 17:36   #8
gew98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riversidesports View Post
^^^ALL OF THIS^^^

Good Example:

Pops recently decided to unload some items he accumulated years ago, talking 1970s Vet purchases. Back then there was not a huge markup in SS related items, nobody was faking that crap.

So a few years ago he hauls out a Luger engraved with the Deaths Head on the receiver extension, obviously a no date gun but S42 Toggle assm and a 2nd series Radom P35 with SS frame stampings and the original Bosnian Crested holster. Sticks them on the tables.

Had several thirty something nosepickers scoff at them as OBVIOUS frauds
Heck he paid like $70.00 for the Radom years ago.

The Luger had it's capture Documentation. Like a 175.00 piece in 1978. Old guy was in the Quartermaster Corps, swapped a carton of Lucky Strikes for it in late 45'

Thing is the younger generation is been so totally soured by the fakery and frauds that they rely completely on web based retardation and there is just a ton of it.

Same with the Waffenampted 1914 "Colt 1911"
There are a few Nazi inspected M1 Carbines out there as well as a good share of what we dropped into Euro resistance was captured by the Nazis

Those two were eventually re-homed to non idiots who were not caught up in the Band of Brothers mystique.

98' Mausers were once as you note dirt cheap
What was seriously desireable were the 1909 exports, just beautifully made, popular for sporting conversions
Overall K98s were seen as much poorer quality but back then you had a hard time just giving Nagants away.

Up through the early 90s Nazi proofing/acceptance marks/codes meant nothing. Serious collectors wanted Commercial Walthers or early HiPowers and Radoms. Not Nazi production garbage. I am blown away at the prices 3rd Series Radoms now bring and it's all due to romantic BS mostly by younger folks

I guess I'm like meh' when someone proudly shows me a Soviet Capture K98 that's been struck out, mismatched, electro penned and finished in a muddy blue like I should be all impressed
I am less impressed when they think it's worth nearly a grand and they expect to trade it against something honest we have.
I see a hundred dollar piece of crap that we will never get our money out of.
I remember back in the 90's me and my father would buy 10 to 20 98k imports at a time. All were original finish - worn to hell to very damn decent for I recall under $85 each delivered. Got gobs of great parts.... original wood , late war unserialed parts , some nice HzA marked parts , armorers parts etc etc. Even got a gew98 to 98k SS marked rifle ... it was beat up and smooth bore from neglect. Lots of original rod , sight hoods etc etc.
Had a couple that were bolt only mismatches that were really decent. Ah those were the days in a way. Bought a lot of turked gew98's for under $70 each back then too and got gobs of imperial armorers parts to include original armorers bolts. Long divested myself of all that stuff.
Turned a gob of those 98k's and gew98's into bubba deer slayers. I never bothered with the rehashed russki 98k's.... they were patently junk with no original finish often , buggered markings and more often obliterated serials.
I have seen one legit death head P08 pistol and two 84/98 bayonets. They were the same depot type "skull" applied to the rifles...never engraved.
I have seen SS marked radom holsters , but stamped SS markings on one...unless it's an SSzza2 or a4 depot proof I'd be very wary of it.
In Europa the fraud on Nazi stuff started almost as soon as the war started and only increased as time went on. You could buy all manner of fake Nazi items back in the 70's from catalogs...which same junk today is often passed off as original to the masses of asses in today's collecting circles.
I have had more than one vet try and pawn off a nickled german pistol as an SS officer yadd yadda yadda thing. There was an enormous industry in france and Belgium to plate and pimp out GI souvenirs before and directly after the war ended.
Good example was back in the old KCN days there were a handful of kreigs models and semi kriegs models surfacing with "late war" commercial proofing. Some touted this as a late war rare variation yadda yadda yadda. Knew two advanced collectors well and both had examples - one a pair of such 98k's and they had recipts for these from an Army PX iN 1946-47 timeframe. They were assembled for resale...not by wartime Germany. Knew two veterans that made serious money while overseeing captured german arms at a depot. They assembled all manner of franken K's and G33/40's , optically sighted rifles etc etc. No doubt many a yarn was spun about those Nazi officer sniper or paratrooper weapons by vets and later assumptions by "collectors/prospectors ". Anyhow this is old news... getting boring now.
__________________
The vice of capitolism is it's unequal sharing of blessings.
The Virtue of Socialism is it's equal sharing of MISERY.
Winston Churchill

1) Culture builds upon the past
2) The past always tries to control the future.
3) Our future is becoming less free
4) To build free societies you must limit control of the past.

All hail lord IMPOTUS and Darth Biden All hail.
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Old February 08, 2018, 18:33   #9
Riversidesports
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gew98 View Post
I remember back in the 90's me and my father would buy 10 to 20 98k imports at a time. All were original finish - worn to hell to very damn decent for I recall under $85 each delivered. Got gobs of great parts.... original wood , late war unserialed parts , some nice HzA marked parts , armorers parts etc etc. Even got a gew98 to 98k SS marked rifle ... it was beat up and smooth bore from neglect. Lots of original rod , sight hoods etc etc.
Had a couple that were bolt only mismatches that were really decent. Ah those were the days in a way. Bought a lot of turked gew98's for under $70 each back then too and got gobs of imperial armorers parts to include original armorers bolts. Long divested myself of all that stuff.
Turned a gob of those 98k's and gew98's into bubba deer slayers. I never bothered with the rehashed russki 98k's.... they were patently junk with no original finish often , buggered markings and more often obliterated serials.
I have seen one legit death head P08 pistol and two 84/98 bayonets. They were the same depot type "skull" applied to the rifles...never engraved.
I have seen SS marked radom holsters , but stamped SS markings on one...unless it's an SSzza2 or a4 depot proof I'd be very wary of it.
In Europa the fraud on Nazi stuff started almost as soon as the war started and only increased as time went on. You could buy all manner of fake Nazi items back in the 70's from catalogs...which same junk today is often passed off as original to the masses of asses in today's collecting circles.
I have had more than one vet try and pawn off a nickled german pistol as an SS officer yadd yadda yadda thing. There was an enormous industry in france and Belgium to plate and pimp out GI souvenirs before and directly after the war ended.
Good example was back in the old KCN days there were a handful of kreigs models and semi kriegs models surfacing with "late war" commercial proofing. Some touted this as a late war rare variation yadda yadda yadda. Knew two advanced collectors well and both had examples - one a pair of such 98k's and they had recipts for these from an Army PX iN 1946-47 timeframe. They were assembled for resale...not by wartime Germany. Knew two veterans that made serious money while overseeing captured german arms at a depot. They assembled all manner of franken K's and G33/40's , optically sighted rifles etc etc. No doubt many a yarn was spun about those Nazi officer sniper or paratrooper weapons by vets and later assumptions by "collectors/prospectors ". Anyhow this is old news... getting boring now.
LOL...we were really never into the 98s
We glommed onto some sniper variants but most went after G41s, 43s and pistols.

The PO8 was roll engraved/ stamped. Real deal. Neither it or the Radom was presented as SS when dad snagged them. Used to be Vets just brought these things in to swap off on a deer or bird gun.

Late 70s a Vet set up at the Fargo ND show...just a ton of odd crap
included were various waffenampt and code stamps, bought the box for like twenty bones and made several hundreds selling them in the Twin Cities shows
Curiously after that we started seeing all sorts of shit Waffen marked in the 80s

Of course then you had other shit...
Up through the early 80s Atlanta Cutlery Corporation were still selling Nazi dagger "kits"
These were left over bits from the war, sold cheap...like 9.95
Heck that was my beer money in the late 70s gew. I likely assembled a couple hundred "Nazi" daggers and sold them 30 to 40 bones back then as a high schooler.
some kiddies had paper routes, I built up gun show crap that was mostly sold to other vendors who just marked my shit up.

The Radom was lightly struck with very small SS runes on the left side of the upper trigger guard bow, the holster was Bosnian crested on the flap
rare piece, the Bosnians were Islamic SS

Sadly there are just tons of folks worshipping trash
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Old February 08, 2018, 20:41   #10
gew98
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The crested holster of the radom would have been nice to see. Got a buddy that found an M40 stahlhelm with a croation crest on it - was period painted over !. Took him for ever to expose it properly to be seen for the rarity it was.
The Handschar "division" was a joke. They more or less broke and ran when encountering the russkis.....not much backbone in them.
Had befriended an old german fellow out of the King of Prussia area of PA many many years ago. This old machinist worked miracles on making DWM luger carbines. Good enough to fool some serious collectors for some serious money. He had ammo cans and cookie tins of luger parts sorted by WaA proofs , maker and serial. He built up dozens of P08 pistols... and could rust blue them to fool all but the most studied.... and even then he still got some of those types money. He was that good at his craft. I saw him take a rusted and pitted GI 1911A1 pistol that had it's serial defaced and make it into a beautiful commercial colt combat commander in 38 super serial #69. Of course the weirdo dentist with a Nazi fetish and odd number fetish bought it for stupid money and wrote to colt on his find. Colt told him in no uncertain terms they never made a combat commander in 38 super # 69. He was such a dolt he thought he had a rare tool room deal lunch box special.... one of those has to be right for the money I spent types. Another guy I knew - val , a Yugoslav whom emigrated to the US in 1950 an djoined the US Army to get his citizen ship faster made really good WaA stamps and popped them on a lot of junk and had that fetish tooth doctor's money all the time. Was a real laugh to see that go down like clockwork back in the day. And crazy was the dentist was a practicing jew..... but had a hard on for anything with a swastika.
I remember seeing gobs of german daggers and HJ knives at flea markets and shows 30 + years ago. At least the HJ knives were fairly easy to spot from the plethora of known fakes. The vast majority of german helmets I encountered then at flea markets were righteous.... those days are forever gone. Hell I once found a hessian reserve pickelhauben with korkades and chinstrap at a flea market for $80 back in the early 80's. Granted the leather was a bit shrunk from dry storage and dusty...but it was quite right and untouched.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Riversidesports View Post
LOL...we were really never into the 98s
We glommed onto some sniper variants but most went after G41s, 43s and pistols.

The PO8 was roll engraved/ stamped. Real deal. Neither it or the Radom was presented as SS when dad snagged them. Used to be Vets just brought these things in to swap off on a deer or bird gun.

Late 70s a Vet set up at the Fargo ND show...just a ton of odd crap
included were various waffenampt and code stamps, bought the box for like twenty bones and made several hundreds selling them in the Twin Cities shows
Curiously after that we started seeing all sorts of shit Waffen marked in the 80s

Of course then you had other shit...
Up through the early 80s Atlanta Cutlery Corporation were still selling Nazi dagger "kits"
These were left over bits from the war, sold cheap...like 9.95
Heck that was my beer money in the late 70s gew. I likely assembled a couple hundred "Nazi" daggers and sold them 30 to 40 bones back then as a high schooler.
some kiddies had paper routes, I built up gun show crap that was mostly sold to other vendors who just marked my shit up.

The Radom was lightly struck with very small SS runes on the left side of the upper trigger guard bow, the holster was Bosnian crested on the flap
rare piece, the Bosnians were Islamic SS

Sadly there are just tons of folks worshipping trash
__________________
The vice of capitolism is it's unequal sharing of blessings.
The Virtue of Socialism is it's equal sharing of MISERY.
Winston Churchill

1) Culture builds upon the past
2) The past always tries to control the future.
3) Our future is becoming less free
4) To build free societies you must limit control of the past.

All hail lord IMPOTUS and Darth Biden All hail.
gew98 is online now   Reply With Quote
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