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Old July 30, 2019, 12:25   #1
Bawana jim
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9mm AR

Trying to wrap my mind around what is the benefit of a 9mm AR. Clue me in.
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Old July 30, 2019, 12:34   #2
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Trying to wrap my mind around what is the benefit of a 9mm AR. Clue me in.
Fun.

Easy practice.

Better sight radius than a Hi-Power.

Chicks dig it.

........................

No, I don't own one.


........................
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Old July 30, 2019, 12:38   #3
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Fun.

Easy practice.

Better sight radius than a Hi-Power.

Chicks dig it.




........................
Get a S&W MP15-22 with a $40 Tru-Glo red dot. Suppressor optional.

More fun.

Easier practice.

Cheaper ammo.

MORE chicks dig it.

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Old July 30, 2019, 13:02   #4
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So a 9mm AR will draw chick's to this old ugly man??? Sounds like it would take a truck load of ammo to help that along.

Ya I guess I have the wrong view, guns are fun but I have trouble figuring where a 9mm AR fits in. I need to ponder if this fits into my survival preps.
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Old July 30, 2019, 14:36   #5
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It doesn't fit in, in my view.

I'm not opposed to a PCC (which I do have one) but I don't see the point of the 9mm AR other than as mentioned, just for fun.
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Old July 30, 2019, 14:51   #6
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So a 9mm AR will draw chick's to this old ugly man??? Sounds like it would take a truck load of ammo to help that along.

Ya I guess I have the wrong view, guns are fun but I have trouble figuring where a 9mm AR fits in. I need to ponder if this fits into my survival preps.
Nope.

It does not take the place of a rifle, or have the portability of a pistol.

It may have value as a stowed item...maybe...
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Old July 30, 2019, 15:20   #7
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Nope.

It does not take the place of a rifle, or have the portability of a pistol.

It may have value as a stowed item...maybe...
I owned and shot competition with 9mm subguns and it's my opinion most are far too heavy for the power they have. Going bigger in the AR form seems wrong to me because you are putting a handgun round into a rifle.
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Old July 30, 2019, 15:25   #8
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I owned and shot competition with 9mm subguns and it's my opinion most are far too heavy for the power they have. Going bigger in the AR form seems wrong to me because you are putting a handgun round into a rifle.
Understood.




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Old July 30, 2019, 15:36   #9
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Understood.




..............................
So I have a point of view that someone of your experience, skill and ability should comment on. 9mm subguns of most generations and rifles shooting pistol rounds are too heavy for the power in my opinion. Do you think the kits that upgrade the handling of a 9mm handgun are worth the money?
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Old July 30, 2019, 15:59   #10
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So I have a point of view that someone of your experience, skill and ability should comment on. 9mm subguns of most generations and rifles shooting pistol rounds are too heavy for the power in my opinion. Do you think the kits that upgrade the handling of a 9mm handgun are worth the money?
My take, Jim-

Pistol caliber subguns work extremely well in a very specific environ.

Most were blowback, with heavy reciprocating mass, firing from an open bolt. This is what makes them relatively low maintenance, and very effective in short distance contact if one is working a part of a larger team, with specific objectives.


I doubt that you or I will be doing any of that in our AO. I know I am not training to do entry work.

I prefer rifles for many reasons, especially in my present environ. A handgun with extra rounds is always within reach, and a iron sighted 30 caliber rifle (of some type ) is not far away.

From my experience working with others, no matter how familiar they are with firearms and shooting, the best 'handling upgrade' is 500+ rounds on target in 2 days.

The BEST tune-up I ever had was 800 rounds through a Smith Model 19 in 1-1/2 days, with direction from an extremely competent instructor.

Like many things in life, true reward comes from disciplined effort, not what we purchase.

T

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Old July 30, 2019, 16:17   #11
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Well it might take the potus to change your mind...

It's short and enjoy.

https://youtu.be/RnfOtNXPCVw
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Old July 30, 2019, 16:20   #12
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9mm sub-guns are not what we're talking about here (unless I really missed something (which is certainly possible... ))

Semi-auto carbines are another story.

While I have no interest in a 9mm AR, I can see that they MIGHT be fun...

I do have an UZI carbine (semi), picked up because I got a really good price once upon a time, but it needs wheels...

I also have a Marlin Camp Carbine, which IS fun...

More recently, I picked up one of the Ruger PC Carbines. It is great fun to shoot (and it shoots well), but it's also a take-down, which is mostly why I bothered...

Forrest
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Old July 30, 2019, 16:20   #13
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I have an older Ruger PC9 and love it. Is a 9mm rifle the answer to my prayers? No. I consider it my go to for inside defense. Not too powerful that over penetration is a huge concern, more accurate than a pistol, can hold it with 2 hands so it is harder to take from me, heavy duty enough that it can be a club if it comes to that. Would I grab it for outside social work? Nope, probably not but it is another tool in my bag o'tricks.

It is fun to shoot, my teenage daughter loves to shoot it, not expensive to feed, it was cheap enough when I bought it, uses my P89 mags. I have considered a 9mm AR as a natural progression but have not gotten there yet. Do have a 10mm somewhere that I have yet to shoot 😀
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Old July 30, 2019, 16:37   #14
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I do own a pistol caliber rifle and love it. Win 94 Trapper in 45 Colt and like you guys say it's real fun. Short and handy and great at pistol caliber range.
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Old July 30, 2019, 16:45   #15
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Originally Posted by ftierson View Post
9mm sub-guns are not what we're talking about here (unless I really missed something (which is certainly possible... ))

Semi-auto carbines are another story.

While I have no interest in a 9mm AR, I can see that they MIGHT be fun...

I do have an UZI carbine (semi), picked up because I got a really good price once upon a time, but it needs wheels...

I also have a Marlin Camp Carbine, which IS fun...

More recently, I picked up one of the Ruger PC Carbines. It is great fun to shoot (and it shoots well), but it's also a take-down, which is mostly why I bothered...

Forrest
Some of the guys at the matches shot full auto 9mm Colts and they are fine weapons that run really good but to me it's too heavy for the power.

AR and 9mm have some real plus features over the common subgun. Better sights, faster mag changes and easy to suppress. Fellow in the match had a open bag around his neck to catch empty mags and his mag changes were very fast. Of course the games were always stand up because old men can't get up and down without exposure of too much butt crack.
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Old July 30, 2019, 17:19   #16
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As TDB posted, they are for specific situations. They will not replace a rifle nor will they take the place of a pistol. I do know that they will accurately hit targets out to 200 yards. And they hit hard enough to make an owie. Pistol calibers, with the right ammo, have been taking game from deer on down for years before the invention of a PCC. Because of some concerns with our local range and the running of indoor PCC matches, I found that for 9mm, the 16 inch barreled PCC will give you a velocity increase from 100-300 FPS over a 5 inch barreled pistol for all ammo fired. Some of the hotter self defense loads like Corbon will run pretty close to 16-1700 FPS depending on the rifle. That ain't anything to sneeze at.

Check this Ballistics by the inch for 9mm. You can switch to other pistol calibers to compare them too.

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html
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Old July 30, 2019, 17:54   #17
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First year oregon had hunting deer with a handgun I got a small buck. Pistol rounds at short distance work good but trying to stretch a 9mm with a heavy AR won't work for this old man. I really like the AR and I really like the 9mm so I might end up with a 9mm upper.
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Old July 30, 2019, 20:29   #18
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You might be happier with a dedicated lower. My understanding is that they run better.
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Old July 30, 2019, 23:44   #19
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I really miss my 9mm AR at times. I think it may have been the funnest plinker I have owned.

I didn't see any real tactical advantage over a similar length 5.56 but it was cheap to shoot, recoil like a 22 lr and not too noisy. It sure was fun to bounce cans around with....
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Old July 31, 2019, 02:42   #20
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I have no use for a 9mm AR. Practice? It's not going to shoot anywhere flat enough to engage targets beyond handgun distance so use a handgun. As a toy, build one and enjoy. I have over two dozen AR's in 5.56 since it's most common cartridge, almost as many in 6.8 spc II plus a half dozen in 22 Nosler for varmints out of 5.56 range and a half dozen in 458 SOCOM for lobbing 550 grain soft point subsonic bullets very quietly but still with a huge amount of energy when max velocity is 1,000 fps. Have several wildcats and wife has a pair in 5.7×28 to keep from doing damage to her soft bones and will always be building more as its a hobby I enjoy and can't build anything much cheaper these days that will shoot sub MOA. I still would only build one in a pistol cartridge if the parts were free.
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Old July 31, 2019, 18:00   #21
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I had 2 pistol caliber carbines, a Kahr/Auto Ordnance Thompson in .45 ACP and a Ruger PC9. I sold the semi Tommy Gun when I got a real Bridgeport M1A1. I still have the PC9, haven't shot it in years. It is much more practical than the semi Tommy, and I'm sure it fills a nitch, just not sure which one. I don't see it as a 100 yd rifle, I would grab an M1 Carbine before the PC9.

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Old July 31, 2019, 18:55   #22
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Trying to wrap my mind around what is the benefit of a 9mm AR. Clue me in.
If you have to ask, you wouldn't understand.
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Old July 31, 2019, 19:08   #23
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If you have to ask, you wouldn't understand.
I was seeking the thoughts of others, yours are noted.
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Old July 31, 2019, 19:40   #24
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LOL

I made an integral suppressor for my 9mm upper. It's nothing short of awesome when used at the appropriate distances (I personally think about 125 yards is about as far as I'm comfortable with irons or a red dot, but there are others who take theirs out a lot farther).

With that said, I also use 165 gr bullets so I have a lot of bullet drop, but not much noise.
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Old July 31, 2019, 19:51   #25
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LOL

I made an integral suppressor for my 9mm upper. It's nothing short of awesome when used at the appropriate distances (I personally think about 125 yards is about as far as I'm comfortable with irons or a red dot, but there are others who take theirs out a lot farther).

With that said, I also use 165 gr bullets so I have a lot of bullet drop, but not much noise.
I have a suppressed m77 bolt in 44 magnum that if you sight in the 300 grain bullet at suppressed speeds at 50 yards it drops 9 inches at 100 yards. Picking the right powder charge to get the velocity right when you have humidity like this area does is tricky. Yet hearing that thud when the bullet hits is gratifying.

Where I am having trouble with the 9mm AR project is trying to figure what is the best set up for doing a 9mm. Is it worth doing a SBR and a shorter barrel or is it better and more accurate to go mid length like a 16.5? What am I gaining by the choices?
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Old July 31, 2019, 21:00   #26
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If you're going to run it suppressed, the 16" barrel will be both a blessing and a curse.

The 16 inch barrel will be a lot more quiet because it allows the powder to achieve full burn and the gasses will be cooler by the time it enters into the suppressor.

With that said, it's a lot harder to keep the velocity below ~1110 fps (that's what supersonic is where I live).

If you can use 158 gr or 165 gr bullets, you won't have any problem and it will be impressively quiet with a can.

I do have a good recipe for the 165 if you want it. The velocity dips down into the upper 800's through the shorter (8 inch) barrels. But the heavier weight still has a good whallop on the steel.
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Old August 06, 2019, 20:38   #27
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9mm ar would be great for home defense. Firing 5.56 ammo in a house = Lots of blast, noise, over penetration. Have shot plenty of targets at 100 yards plus with pistols, a 9mm ar would be lethal at 100 yards plus. If ya think an ar is heavy its time for a dose of testosterone
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Old August 07, 2019, 06:49   #28
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Be reminded that suppressors get got enough to instantly burn your flesh right off after only a few shots.

Which includes melting most synthetic fabrics and gun-cases.
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Old August 07, 2019, 07:37   #29
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While 9mm suppressors do get hot, with the relatively low powder charges, does take quite a while to do so.
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Old August 07, 2019, 08:56   #30
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So in my opinion there is no need for a 9mm or any other pistol caliber used in the AR platform. 556 and a few other rifle calibers work, and work actually very well. With many of these pee shooters you end up with stupid issues, and a lack of performance. I guess if you really cant afford to train with 556?!? You could use a .22?! Again still stupid as it doesn’t perform well. Take the money you would spend on a pistol caliber AR and buy ammo if that’s your reason. If it’s strictly you for some odd reason want a 9mm? Ok then shoot a pistol. Or buy one of the many rifles designed to shoot 9mm.
For the longest time I wanted a 9mm carbine, but after sitting down and weighing the pros and cons? I stuck with a Hodge AR, and I am red dotting my Glock while spending more time trying to become more proficient with each of these in their intended roles.



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Trying to wrap my mind around what is the benefit of a 9mm AR. Clue me in.
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Old August 07, 2019, 09:33   #31
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I did get a trigger put into a lower I am set to build on. If I do go 9mm it's just for fun as I decided it just doesn't fit in to my survival ideas. Thanks for the feed back.

Jim
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Old August 07, 2019, 18:21   #32
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I bought son an hk mp5 .22 rifle, its heavy by nancy-man standards, but replicates the mp5 & we’ve shot thousands of .22’s and i have used it to train several young or beginner shooters. By shooting a thousand rounds or so they all became fairly proficient at minimal cost and were not scared off by blast & recoil. The mp5 .22 is great for self defense & takes h&k accessories. The barrelis threaded for a suppressor if needed. An ar 9mm would fill the same niche.
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Old August 07, 2019, 19:38   #33
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They are fun range toys.

I like shooting mine at my gun clubs action pistol range's steel plates (rifles are not allowed).

It is also more accurate than most users can shoot with a pistol. With a suppressor might be a good suburban deer rifle/pistol with right ammo at close range.
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Old August 07, 2019, 21:27   #34
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I love 'em!
They do make great range toys but they also can serve a few purposes.
Great for home defense. My wife (do to lack of practice) doesn't shoot a handgun well but she is deadly with a carbine style rifle. (She loves her AK "krink") So since she is familiar with that manual of arms I bought her a PSA AKV 9mm that sits next to the bed. It has a Trijicon MRO optic & a 35 rd magazine. Anything coming through that door isn't going out standing up.
They are also good for youngins who have passed the .22 stage but aren't ready for a full rifle cartridge. Good training tool & in a pinch, they too can help hold the fort with it.
It's alot quieter inside a house than a rifle but add a suppressor & it improves greatly.
Besides, they are cheap to shoot, low recoil & gather a crowd at the range to ask questions but mostly just plain ol' FUN!
Top is the wifes' AKV9 & bottom is my CMMG AR Mk 9 that uses 32 rd Colt mags. Both in pistol form with a brace.

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Old August 07, 2019, 23:19   #35
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Ive got a PSA billet lower that accepts glock mags and a Foxtrot Mike upper with a side charging handle in 9mm in AR pistol form.
Thinking about getting a tax stamp for it.

Super fun to shoot, cheap, and great for ringing steel on the little range on my property.
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Old August 08, 2019, 08:47   #36
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The 9mm AR and AK carbines would be a good choice to train wimmin and chirruns as well as it might be the weapon to use for those in wheelchairs or with other physical handicaps. However, the Glock 17 and 19 with 33 round magazines made all the cute, widdle, "subgun" type firearms virtually obsolete.

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Old August 09, 2019, 08:18   #37
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AR in 9mm? I was going to make one and even SBR it, but I went the Uzi route for 9mm. Cheap parts and mags too.
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Old August 10, 2019, 08:17   #38
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Delta-3 is has the same experiences as me as far as the wife and firearms. My wife will use a 9MM SBR to make up for the lack of experience with a handgun. We have adopted a CZ Evo 9MM and a PSA AKV 9mm. With the red dot sights, flash light, stock/brace, mag capacity and ability to grip the weapon it just feels like a great alternative to my wife using a Glock. I was not opposed to getting a 9mm AR but after she fired the Evo she was hooked and didn't want anything else. Now that I have the AKV she likes it but still likes the Evo better.
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Old August 10, 2019, 08:33   #39
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Liking something goes a long way toward being able to use it well. Like I told my wife, I don't really care what gun you choose for your own as long as you shoot it well.

She has carpal tunnel in both hands and a semi handgun is out of the question entirely. But she's really good with the 6 inch, 7 shot, stainless 357 magnum.

If they like the gun they are using, you're more likely to practice with it (which as we all know is important) and secondly, you start getting more intimate with it and familiar with it and understand better what it will do.
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Old August 11, 2019, 13:15   #40
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Have three close friends that bought 9mm AR's with suppressors as had enough property to shoot handguns in back yard but not rifle cartridges. All sold theirs within six months. I usually have a SIG 9mm with Osprey 9 suppressor close at hand. Use 147 grain subsonics and was hitting everything my friends could with their 9mm AR's. When run an Osprey can wet with SIG 147 grain hollow points its scary quiet and be much better in the house than a 9mm AR.

My 458 SOCOM AR's have no over penetration issues and do exactly what USSOCOM operators wanted. Place super hard hits on aggressive targets so that they didn't have to worry about having to shoot an geeked up Somali three or four times to make them stay down. Have settled on 550 grain jacketed soft points which would likely derail a train if you needed to do so. My 6.8 SBR's do well inside with the correct ammo selection. Have little use for 5.56 subsonic unless go with highly exotic ammo like Tubbs Absolute Two Hole. Otherwise a suppressed Ruger 10/22 with 60 grain Aguila Sniper Subsonics is about the same as most subsonic 5.56.

As an FYI most of my suppressed SBR's have pinned cans and long handguards that cover the can to protect operator from worst of the heat or cans are wrapped in asbestos cloth lined covers.
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Old August 11, 2019, 13:37   #41
John A
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Where do you even find asbestos wrapped liners these days?
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Old August 11, 2019, 16:18   #42
Jarhead504
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Where do you even find asbestos wrapped liners these days?
Try motorcycle shops or supply houses. Lots of riders wrap the exhaust pipes with a heat-retardant fiber cloth to reduce the chances of getting burned.

I think this is what Brother Hueyville and his crew are using, amirite?

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Old August 11, 2019, 16:19   #43
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Delta-3 is has the same experiences as me as far as the wife and firearms. My wife will use a 9MM SBR to make up for the lack of experience with a handgun. We have adopted a CZ Evo 9MM and a PSA AKV 9mm. With the red dot sights, flash light, stock/brace, mag capacity and ability to grip the weapon it just feels like a great alternative to my wife using a Glock. I was not opposed to getting a 9mm AR but after she fired the Evo she was hooked and didn't want anything else. Now that I have the AKV she likes it but still likes the Evo better.
See, there you go. That's what I'm sayin'

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Old August 11, 2019, 16:20   #44
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Liking something goes a long way toward being able to use it well. Like I told my wife, I don't really care what gun you choose for your own as long as you shoot it well.

She has carpal tunnel in both hands and a semi handgun is out of the question entirely. But she's really good with the 6 inch, 7 shot, stainless 357 magnum.

If they like the gun they are using, you're more likely to practice with it (which as we all know is important) and secondly, you start getting more intimate with it and familiar with it and understand better what it will do.
That's what I'm sayin' Brother John A.

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Old August 14, 2019, 12:57   #45
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Get my asbestos from online scientific supply companies. The muffler wrap is not as good. Have my seamstress sew a Cordura cover with elastic straps.
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A time will come when people will not listen to accurate teachings. Instead, they will follow their own desires and surround themselves with teachers who tell them what they want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3 G.W.T.
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