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Old July 02, 2018, 23:33   #1
KoKodog
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some backup power

finally caught a break and won a bid on surplus UPS units

being on the end of the longest circuit my electric service supplier has ......

and the power grid is not getting any better,
lots of voltage spikes and too many brown-outs .........
all electronics are going on UPS units,
better, faster protection and cheap insurance


$57.00 for the whole shebang -
so far just bad batteries, which is usually the case
had 5 12V 7Ahr batteries on hand so .....
I got the 420 and two of the 750's up and running

front pic of skid/lot




rear pic of skid/lot




3 of these still new in box - going to sell these for $50.00 each




one each
APC SC420
APC SU620NET




4 of APC SUA750




2 of APC SUAXL1000 - not going to put the factory type batteries back in,
going to get 2 deep cycle batteries in battery boxes (each) and wire them in for
a day or two of reserve power, one for my CPAP and the other for computer,
router, modem, time machine




1 of Liebert GXT2-1500RT120 (top unit - UPS)
1 of Liebert GXT2 48VBATT (bottom unit - extra battery pack)

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that know neither victory, nor defeat.
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Old July 03, 2018, 01:55   #2
yellowhand
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Damn, did the poooooolice catch up with ya yet???

You stole that load for 57.00 !!!

Well done.
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Old July 03, 2018, 07:06   #3
KoKodog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowhand View Post
Damn, did the poooooolice catch up with ya yet???

You stole that load for 57.00 !!!

Well done.

yep, even a blind hog can find a acorn once in a while ..........

on edit;
the APC 1000XL units sell new for between $500 to $700 (got 2)
the APC SUA750 units sell new for between $300 to $400 (got 4)
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Far better it is to dare mighty things,
than to take refuge with those timid spirits
that know neither victory, nor defeat.
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Pray for peace, but prepare for war.
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Last edited by KoKodog; July 03, 2018 at 11:38.
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Old July 03, 2018, 11:27   #4
KoKodog
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some interesting things ........



the Liebert GXT2-1500RT120 (top unit - UPS) takes 4 of - 12V 7Ahr batteries



the Liebert GXT2 48VBATT (bottom unit - extra battery pack) requires 8 of the same 12V 7Ahr batteries,
thats a whole case of batteries (40 pounds of batteries), I need to source a special jumper cable to be able to connect the two together




heres a quick how video to upgrade the battery/s for your UPS

units taking 2 batteries usually get wired in series,
the easy upgrade is to units that only use one battery


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Far better it is to dare mighty things,
than to take refuge with those timid spirits
that know neither victory, nor defeat.
Teddy Roosvelt

Pray for peace, but prepare for war.
Winston Churchill
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Old July 05, 2018, 00:59   #5
hueyville
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If you were in Georgia I could hook you up with those batteries for wholesale. You can Frankenstein bigger batteries to those units by pulling a pigtail out and ugly wiring it into whatever 12 volt battery you might have access too.





I just woke to the sound of the generator purring outside and noticed the neighborhood was dark except for us as our emergency lights popped on soon as it dropped while the generator spooled up and run for 5 minutes or until the grid comes back up. Checked the Georgia Power outage map and showed three locations out in state. Atlanta, Columbus and Savannah. Within a minute of reporting ours north side of Gainesville and Lake Lanier (that's us) popped up along with Athens, Brunswick, Cedartown, Douglasville, Roswell and now Waynesville. The bigger cities are growing more icons as switches pop and the outage Cascades due to unbalanced loads at substations.

As I type more towns are going out as substations around original three locations fail. Murryvilla and Juno just went which means Ballground which is my farm will drop real soon if not already. Have certain alarms starting to pop around the house such as alarm panel and though it has power from generator it knows the grid is down and alarm monitoring station will call my cell any minute. Now nine areas reporting outages just inside metro Atlanta as stations keep unbalancing and throwing breakers. Alpharetta just went out near Roswell and it spreads like a virus.
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Old July 05, 2018, 01:41   #6
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Villa Ricca, Stockbridge, Forrest Park, East Point and more are popping and basically type a paragraph and swith to Georgia Power site to see three more areas down. Avondale Estates and two areas near Redan are gone. No storms, no expectations of issues and wonder how many utility workers are trying to suck down coffee and sober up since it's the 4th of July.

UPS's are great to have but can only keep equipment plugged into them up as long as batteries hold out. Why I Frankenstein double the amp hours of battery in each unit as they die with age. While generator is running entire house I pulled plugs on a half dozen devices already and have the UPS's powering them to save the frequency variation of generator from stressing the MOSFETS in my big UPS's. Even my bigger units on television, surround sound and cable box will only keep them up for 90 minutes. Items like refrigerators and freezers the start up amps would be cruel to most UPS's even with big batteries and may go downstairs and switch the refrigerators and freezers to the battery stacks and inverters just to cycle them as a random test cycle. Also will save the generator from loading up hard when the HVAC kicks in.

Large numbers of people have the day off, are up late partying on a Wednesday with businesses closed that normally run night shifts so the entire system is out of whack from normal. Past 10 minutes or so no new icons on outage maps which means the computers and night shift people are running and diverting power to balance the load and trucks are rumbling to sites. All this could have started with one drunk running off the road and hitting a power pole but seems odd it would have small pockets out covering just small communities spread out over 70% of state if plot them on map though in fact few customers are out in grand scheme of things.

It was nice to have emergency lighting in all hallways, top and bottom of stairs, basement and garage fire up within a microsecond while signals were clamping down emergency disconnect from grid before generator spooled up. If going to run off batteries takes big stacks like these.







Well now I need to tether my tablet up and go tend to some power switching as looks like this is going to last and need to get some sleep.
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A time will come when people will not listen to accurate teachings. Instead, they will follow their own desires and surround themselves with teachers who tell them what they want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3 G.W.T.
"If it is worth doing once...it's worth doing it a few more times to get it right." Stimpsonjcat
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Old July 05, 2018, 02:27   #7
hueyville
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At 00:54 GA Power said our situation would be resolved by 03:00 so listened to generator purr turned off all alarms that warned grid was down and laid back in bed with Bipap ASV running off UPS with biG Portalac PWL12V120 "ugly wired" in lieu of the two little 7 amp/hour batteries that came in it. If know Ohms Law and look up power draw on your devices going to discover two, four or eight 7 amp/hour batteries are not going to keep a device of significant power draw running any length of time. If have money to buy telecom batteries go that route and if not use deep cycle marine batteries and don't waste your money on little alarm panel batteries.

Buy a battery box like use in a boat, sit battery in box, gut batteries from UPS and pull wire from UPS to your deep cycle telecom/marine battery. The UPS next to my bed run my $4,000 Bipap ASV machine on shipped with two 7 amp/hour batteries and now has a 120 amp/hour battery in box next to it for almost 10x the reserve capacity and in all likelihood more than 10x times reserve of the little OEM batteries.
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A time will come when people will not listen to accurate teachings. Instead, they will follow their own desires and surround themselves with teachers who tell them what they want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3 G.W.T.
"If it is worth doing once...it's worth doing it a few more times to get it right." Stimpsonjcat
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Old July 05, 2018, 09:08   #8
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09:00 and over 40 power outages in Georgia affecting over 1,200 customers. 26 outages inside perimeter of Atlanta. Home is online but work is not, may have to reset fuses on transformers myself if crew doesn't show soon. Missed too much work lately and need to get some tasks done. Had planned on installing a new generator last winter and keeping old one as backup. As it is if it dies have a pair of 2,000 watt inverter generators in garage that can pair for 4,000 watts to keep most critical systems going till go to work and get my big diesel unit or drive service truck home with 10,000 watt on back of it.

Math says my current generator should run whole house if don't get greedy but when started last night both refridgerators, freezers and HVAC tried to cycle on at same time soon as they felt power and kicked half the breakers on machine. Had to turn off HVAC and let refridgerators cycle before turned A/C back on. First time had to use in summer in a decade since installed new HVAC unit. Winter have natural gas for supplimental heat so it keeps up fine but A/C compressor was flipping it out when cycled on till killed power and installed a "Hard Start" capacitor on HVAC compressor that more than doubles the inrush current when compressor starts up. Went ahead and put hard start kits on condenser fan and air handler fan so when HVAC turned on the three largest draw devices on startup had plenty of reserve energy in the extra capacitors which leveled out the generator when HVAC started.

Installed new HVAC unit when Nobama phased out R22 systems through EPA regulations rather than wait for it to take a dump in middle of really cold or hot period and could not get a unit and help to swap entire thing out while wife was uncomfortable. Plus energy saved with the dual fuel R410a system has half paid for its cost already and will likely outlast me as bought best unit could get and oversized it 3/4 ton. Had I not been able to swap refrigerators and freezers to battery stacks may have fried something during a multi-device start cycle. Have six generators and none are right for house. Last winter ran the big diesel unit and didn't bother us due to soundproofing qualities of our insulation and polycarbonate lined windows, neighbors either side said when it throttled up middle of night was a bother to them when the big four cylinder diesel loaded up.

Have to start generator shoping for real now. Know what I want just have to look for best price. Plan is to buy a commercial portable machine (portable as in has lifting eye for crane) and install a tri-fuel kit. Hook it to the natural gas line, propane tank and if both run low then pour gasoline in the thing. Also current generator was made before ethanol fuel so marine grade fuel stabilizer is a pain plus may have to run off pure homebrew ethanol fuel someday. Watching the Georgia Power map since just after midnight and how many outages are cropping up is scary. As they fix one or two, another one or three pop up. Like my deal as a contractor for Ma Bell if techs stop dispatching for say pandemic flu, social unrest, etc power and phones will be gone for some quickly, many soon and most within a few days. My guess is natural gas, gasoline, electricity and phones would all be full stop in a week to ten days for all but the well prepared.

BTW the television went 2.5 hours with surround sound processor turned off on its UPS which has a pair of FAT 130 batteries wired into it instead of the eight total 7 amp/hour batteries it had originally. If had the original 56 amp/hours of battery instead of 260 amp/hours would not have run long. UPS's are designed to filter power, protect from spikes and keep equipment running long enough to run through a power blink or safely shut it down before runs down. Hacking them with bigger batteries if will handle it is a great idea.
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A time will come when people will not listen to accurate teachings. Instead, they will follow their own desires and surround themselves with teachers who tell them what they want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3 G.W.T.
"If it is worth doing once...it's worth doing it a few more times to get it right." Stimpsonjcat
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Old July 05, 2018, 11:05   #9
KoKodog
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https://centralgagenerator.com

check this outfit Huey, they are in your state, they carry generator heads (and parts) that will carry the load, get one w/ 4 pole dual brushes so it can run at lower speed to produce power (< 1800 rpm’s), less fuel consumption, look for plenty of 1mm thick laminations and cast iron it will make all the difference in making smooth clean distortion free power, you can probably choose what engine you want and get them to match up a gen-head for your needs

take some time to read/research at this site >>> http://www.utterpower.com

George has left some damn good info about making power,

this link gets you to the ST generator head page, real good info
http://www.utterpower.com/ST.htm

the Changfa diesel engine page
http://www.utterpower.com/changfa.htm

the Listeroid engine page (India made version of British Lister engines)
http://www.utterpower.com/listeroi.htm
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Far better it is to dare mighty things,
than to take refuge with those timid spirits
that know neither victory, nor defeat.
Teddy Roosvelt

Pray for peace, but prepare for war.
Winston Churchill

Last edited by KoKodog; July 05, 2018 at 11:30.
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Old July 05, 2018, 21:15   #10
KoKodog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hueyville View Post
If you were in Georgia I could hook you up with those batteries for wholesale. You can Frankenstein bigger batteries to those units by pulling a pigtail out and ugly wiring it into whatever 12 volt battery you might have access too.
my Interstate rep is not giving me much of a break on the 12V 7Ahr batteries, case of 8 - $12.49 each / case price total @ $99.92

they should be around $9.00 each at case price

12V 7AHr batteries are ok to just get things shut down safely but have no where near the reserve capacity that we expect of them


Quote:
Originally Posted by hueyville View Post
BTW the television went 2.5 hours with surround sound processor turned off on its UPS which has a pair of FAT 130 batteries wired into it instead of the eight total 7 amp/hour batteries it had originally. If had the original 56 amp/hours of battery instead of 260 amp/hours would not have run long. UPS's are designed to filter power, protect from spikes and keep equipment running long enough to run through a power blink or safely shut it down before runs down. Hacking them with bigger batteries if will handle it is a great idea.

my problem is my un-familiarity w/ various deep cycle battery sizes so I need to do research

case in point; what is the largest deep cycle that 2 will fit inside a boat type battery box ?
can I cram two 12V 35Ahr batteries into a group 27 box ??
or else get two group 27 batteries and boxes for the XL1000s

The SC420 and SU620 units require only one battery and are easy to mount on top of a boat type battery box with a group 27 deep cycle battery @ 12V 88Ahr, much longer run time

fix for wonky UPS (sometimes just tweaking the potentiometers work)
http://www.alpharubicon.com/elect/apc450fix.htm

*UPS Battery Replacement & Buzzer Removal*
I think this needs to be done w/ all my units, remove those damn buzzers, they are annoying
http://www.alpharubicon.com/altenerg...zupsrepair.htm


for real purists .. Edison type batteries, only 2% loss over 100 year span
http://www.zappworks.com

there is a wealth of good info & ideas here
http://www.alpharubicon.com/altenergy/altenergy.htm
__________________
Far better it is to dare mighty things,
than to take refuge with those timid spirits
that know neither victory, nor defeat.
Teddy Roosvelt

Pray for peace, but prepare for war.
Winston Churchill
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Old July 07, 2018, 22:13   #11
hueyville
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I am using SAFT Nicads for brunt of work. Unfortunately so many manufacturers (especially China) make odd size interchange batteries advertised as direct drop ins for the original such as GS PWL12V28's. Last two cases ordered of GS batteries arrived and were not GS made but marked as interchange/compatability and refused to take them.

Honestly if go to Walmart and buy a deep cycle marine battery and box off the rack will pair nicely with most two and four 7 amp hour batteries. I still do just enough telecom work keep my stacks kept up as lose a battery to age but SAFT reps and engineers swear the Nicads will probably outlast me at my age of 55. They are odd to match up and a potential EPA Superfund Site if anything goes wrong.

As to the generator, the Generac machine am looking at has hardly changed in 15 years and ones I work with that are over a decade old are still rock solid and easy to source parts. Am real tempted to let the neighbors suck eggs and just go ahead and pad mount my big diesel. If pour concrete walls or lay concrete block and backfill all cores it should knock down the sound signature a good bit. The three phase output makes it double tempting as could bring some work equipment home if ever sell out the business.
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A time will come when people will not listen to accurate teachings. Instead, they will follow their own desires and surround themselves with teachers who tell them what they want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3 G.W.T.
"If it is worth doing once...it's worth doing it a few more times to get it right." Stimpsonjcat
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Old July 07, 2018, 22:29   #12
gentlemanjoe
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If you're selling one of those "in the box" units I think I would like to have one. Can you check it out and make sure it works.
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Old July 08, 2018, 08:16   #13
KoKodog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gentlemanjoe View Post
If you're selling one of those "in the box" units I think I would like to have one. Can you check it out and make sure it works.

I'm selling them local for $50.00, shipping would get the price almost at or above Amazon w/ prime free shipping

you should check on your local Craigslist for a bigger unit

really 350 VA is barely enough to get a few minutes for a basic computer to safely shut down


https://www.amazon.com/APC-BK350-350...S+CS+350VA+UPS


to figure your needs you need to total the wattage demands listed on the id sticker/s of your equipment and that that total and multiply by 1.6, then add 10% (just for safety & some peace of mind)

so lets say (in theory) you have a desktop tower, flat panel monitor, modem, router and the wattage requirements are 495 watts, X 1.6 = 792VA + 10% (79.2) = 871.2 ...... you would be looking for a 900VA unit or larger

thats a bit of a stretch for wattage but its just a example, the right way would be to have your equipment plugged into a power strip and plug the strip into a Kill-A-Watt meter to get a real figure

longer run times can be achieved w/ bigger batteries (rated higher in Amp Hours) as you can see in Hueys pics showing them wired in

https://www.amazon.com/P3-P4400-Elec...l-a-watt&psc=1




remember if there is nothing plugged into a UPS unit & turned on when the power goes out you cannot just plug in and turn on, then you should have a battery bank and inverters, heres a link to a seller that has info pages to help you size for your needs

don't forget a trickle charger if you buy a inverter

https://www.donrowe.com/Default.asp

https://www.donrowe.com/power-inverter-faq-a/258.htm
__________________
Far better it is to dare mighty things,
than to take refuge with those timid spirits
that know neither victory, nor defeat.
Teddy Roosvelt

Pray for peace, but prepare for war.
Winston Churchill
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