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Old December 08, 2017, 18:19   #51
LYCAN
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Just..Wow.
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Old December 08, 2017, 19:54   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Story View Post
Wrong.


https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...ing/927052001/

Brailsford's video
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=M62Va6Ft2cw

Wow. That cop was losing his shit when six cops had a bead on the guy? He could have de-escalated with just a calm, slow set of clear instructions. Also, if a Citizen was found with this nonsense on his weapon in a similar (or even less screwed-up) situation he'd be toast

http://www.leoaffairs.com/engraving-...15-used-court/
That looked like straight up murder to me!
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Old December 08, 2017, 20:51   #53
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So are we all going to riot over this? What's good for the goose and all
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Old December 08, 2017, 21:45   #54
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After watching the video there is no doubt in my mind that this officer did everything possible to make sure he could shoot that man. He really wanted to kill him.
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Old December 08, 2017, 21:52   #55
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They really do pick the stupidest possible people for jury duty. I hope his wife asks for tens of millions in the wrongful death suit. I also hope someone finds Brailsford and shoots him dead (and I'm not apologizing for that sentiment, either).
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Old December 08, 2017, 21:56   #56
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Well, I am certainly not a professional LEO, and I am most always pro-cop ( well, pro GOOD cop ! ), but I find it disturbing that this officer went free. I grant that the deceased made a movement that could seem like a move for a weapon, but whatever happened to trying to calmly defuse a situation ? The officer's behavior certainly seemed to consistently escalate the tension even though there was no immediate threat and he apparently had backup right at his side. Am I missing something ?

I understand that in many, many cases an officer needs to take immediate, authoritative control of a situation, and also that it is easy to second guess from the safety of an armchair, but I'm having trouble with this one. i'll be really interested in the opinions of those more expert than I.

As an aside, wouldn't the AR have been a department weapon ? If so, I am at a loss to understand why any police department would allow a "you're f*cked" logo on a department weapon - or for that matter, on a personal weapon used by an officer while on duty. Particularly so in this age where good PR is a legitimate concern of the LEO community.
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Old December 08, 2017, 22:38   #57
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sounds like a lot of yall are not familiar with how thangs be in arizona & new mexico. the popo round here are generally pretty decent but do have a hair trigger complex. a l i t t l e bit twitchy yanno.
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Old December 08, 2017, 23:44   #58
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sounds like a lot of yall are not familiar with how thangs be in arizona & new mexico. the popo round here are generally pretty decent but do have a hair trigger complex. a l i t t l e bit twitchy yanno.
Both SGT Charles Langley and Brailsford lost their water, plain and simple.

Edited to include all parties.

Last edited by Story; December 11, 2017 at 12:57. Reason: More cops guilty of murder
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Old December 08, 2017, 23:51   #59
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Brailsford's police academy trainer is backing up a justifiable shooting defense.
"The way I teach it is hesitation is what gets officers killed in these situations," said Mesa Police Academy trainer Jeff Jacobs. "When we have identified a threat, we cannot let that threat manifest into an assault."
That night, Shaver reached toward his waistband. Brailford said he thought the man was going for a gun, but he was apparently just trying to pull up his gym shorts. Shaver did not have a weapon on him.
http://www.abc15.com/news/region-sou...ailsford-trial

Watch the video above again. Guy was reaching down to hitch up his shorts while trying to comply by moving forward.

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Old December 09, 2017, 00:12   #60
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Brailsford lost his water, plain and simple.
Yep,

The guy has no business wearing a badge.
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Old December 09, 2017, 00:13   #61
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Now he has bragging rights at the donut shop.
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Old December 09, 2017, 00:30   #62
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that shoot was not righteous. all them tats are not righteous either.
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Old December 09, 2017, 01:39   #63
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I mostly agree with GMan

That said why the hell do so many Officers look like extras off some B rated Hollywood production these days ?

Look not that many folks bear ink here
lately most of the LE coming in are all sleeved up like normal thugs, more over many act out as thugs...

One short lived County piglet even had ear gauges and other piercings
he was let go after the word got out he was boinking a few highschool girls

Yeah a 25 year old screwing 15 year old girls
guy had a number of force complaints, nobody cared until that pig dumped a gal off at the hospital door after midnight abandoning her there.
asshole should be in prison

Most LE are great peoples, some are utter scum
until I see the scum prosecuted, well the rest are shit too.
look you fucks, like you tell us, you see something you say something

GMan probably does
the rest of you maybe not.
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Old December 09, 2017, 08:00   #64
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Well,

Guess the DA wasn't up to the task and the Defense lawyer must have been pretty good. Sad that the jury nullified this case. The spouse probably wont get much when she goes after this turd in a civil suit. Another sad day and slap in face for the deceased's family.

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Old December 09, 2017, 08:44   #65
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Geez, the "officer" looks like a little 10th grade gamer refugee from a local mall via his mom's basement. Kinda explains all the aggression.

Little punk thug finally earned his bragging rights, I guess.
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Old December 09, 2017, 09:35   #66
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Like the old saying goes: what goes around comes around. He will get his one day.
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Old December 09, 2017, 12:58   #67
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The jury didn't see that video. It was released AFTER the verdict.


I'll say what I've been saying for two decades: This is going to keep happening until it becomes personally expensive for the police officer to act in such a fashion.
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Old December 09, 2017, 13:29   #68
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The jury didn't see that video. It was released AFTER the verdict.


I'll say what I've been saying for two decades: This is going to keep happening until it becomes personally expensive for the police officer to act in such a fashion.
you are right

start hitting police pension funds for many millions of dollars and the good cops will start shooting the bad cops, that bullshit blue wall will disappear quickly
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Old December 09, 2017, 14:59   #69
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that shoot was not righteous. all them tats are not righteous either.
I agree - hard to take seriously someone with that many tats, which probably contributed to his authority complex as a way of compensation.
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Old December 09, 2017, 14:59   #70
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The jury didn't see that video. It was released AFTER the verdict.


I'll say what I've been saying for two decades: This is going to keep happening until it becomes personally expensive for the police officer to act in such a fashion.
To the public or the jury? That's evidence and the jury was entitled to see it.
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Old December 09, 2017, 15:34   #71
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The jury didn't see that video. It was released AFTER the verdict.


I'll say what I've been saying for two decades: This is going to keep happening until it becomes personally expensive for the police officer to act in such a fashion.
In any system of government where people cannot gain justice, then the people take matters into their own hands.
Just saying.
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Old December 09, 2017, 19:02   #72
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The jury didn't see that video. It was released AFTER the verdict.


I'll say what I've been saying for two decades: This is going to keep happening until it becomes personally expensive for the police officer to act in such a fashion.
I have to believe that while the video may have just been released to the public, that it would in fact have been admitted as evidence and viewed by the jury. I'd be amazed - and distressed - if the jury was not allowed to view this video.

You are spot on otherwise
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Old December 09, 2017, 19:47   #73
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I watched this video about 20 times. Cop was an over the top thug wanna be, dead man was dumb or drunk. Wouldn't or couldn't follow instructions. Amazing the cop didn't kill him the first time he put both hands behind his back. Either way it cost him his life. Doubt seriously the gene pool suffered.

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Old December 09, 2017, 22:27   #74
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To the public or the jury? That's evidence and the jury was entitled to see it.
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Brailsford's attorneys had asked two different judges that they order the entire video to be kept from the public to protect the officer's right to a fair trial. Both judges granted the request, even as local media organizations and Shaver's widow, Laney Sweet, asked for the release of the public record.
https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...rce/933453001/
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Old December 09, 2017, 23:01   #75
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Thanks - I was really looking to see that it was the jury that was excluded from viewing it and I have yet to see that stated.
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Old December 10, 2017, 10:21   #76
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This news article states that the jury was indeed shown the video, it ws released to the public only after the verdict.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/ampht...2016-shooting/
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Old December 10, 2017, 13:13   #77
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That was like Simon Says at gunpoint.

How do you get out that one?

It looked like murder to me too.
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Old December 10, 2017, 13:57   #78
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That was like Simon Says at gunpoint..
Exactly so.

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This news article states that the jury was indeed shown the video, it ws released to the public only after the verdict.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/ampht...2016-shooting/
Yup, what my post two above your's said as well.
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Old December 10, 2017, 14:38   #79
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[B]
Yup, what my post two above your's said as well.
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Old December 10, 2017, 15:11   #80
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A lifetime of SSRIs, tatted up Billy joe badass with an AR. Have mercy for on his soul if that was my kid that was murdered.

Right out of the pages of Battlefield America
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Old December 10, 2017, 16:13   #81
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Whenever I leave the house these days, whether it's to ride a bicycle, go for a walk or whatever, what I'm scared of, in this order, is:

1. the police
2. the crazy paperboy
3. big dogs running loose
4. young people cruising around
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Old December 10, 2017, 18:37   #82
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That said why the hell do so many Officers look like extras off some B rated Hollywood production these days ?
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell..

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Apparently being a cop wasn't Philip Brailsford's first choice in careers, because he first tried in vain to become an actor.
Brailsford, who was just found not guilty for shooting and killing Daniel Shaver in a Mesa, Arizona hotel, posted his talents on an acting website. It seems the well was dry because he has no credits.
http://www.tmz.com/2017/12/10/philip...-failed-actor/

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Whenever I leave the house these days, whether it's to ride a bicycle, go for a walk or whatever, what I'm scared of, in this order, is:

1. the police
2. the crazy paperboy
3. big dogs running loose
4. young people cruising around
Ladybugs top my list. They're duplicitous insects with a clear agenda.
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Old December 10, 2017, 19:28   #83
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Only two things I'm scared of-

https://youtu.be/b8IqSIw1P0I




................
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Old December 10, 2017, 19:36   #84
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I am also scared of IL series droids, but I don't see them any more. They back off and let the police do the job of terrorizing everybody.
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Old December 10, 2017, 20:56   #85
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All tatted up, dressed all in black, duty belt with hand gun, another hand gun on vest, resistant vest, harness, and armed with an AR, suspect spare mags somewhere not in that photo, and uniforms all fitted and tight, short clipped hair or ball, and black shiny boots with cargo pants, again, suspect he was wearing a kelvar helmet when shooting occurred with a face shield.

Add in armored cars, shields, M16's,,,,,,etc.

They ain't soldiers, but they sure as hell don't look like police officers either.

Police;
the civil force of a national or local government, responsible for the prevention and detection of crime and the maintenance of public order.

Soldier;
a : one engaged in military service and especially in the army
b : an enlisted man or woman
c : a skilled warrior

Warrior caste;
A warrior is a person specializing in combat or warfare, especially within the context of a tribal or clan-based warrior culture society that recognizes a separate warrior class or caste. In tribal societies engaging in endemic warfare, warriors often form a caste or class of their own. In feudalism, the vassals essentially form a military or warrior class, even if in actual warfare.

When did we allow a warrior class to roam our streets?????
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Old December 10, 2017, 21:18   #86
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When did we allow a warrior class to roam our streets?????

Unfortunately when we hire them right off the plane from a tour in AFG - ran into a cop that fits the profile, hispanic dude got hired on by PHXPD after he left the service - asked him what he would do if he pulled over a car where there was an AR wit a suppressor in the back set - immediate response" ARREST THE DRIVER - I asked him if he knew people could legally own cans - he said no they can't they are illegal...

These are the new breed of asshats that have badges and guns - not ALL but even one is too many if they are this ignorant of the laws and peoples rights.
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Old December 10, 2017, 21:50   #87
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When did we allow a warrior class to roam our streets?????

Unfortunately when we hire them right off the plane from a tour in AFG - ran into a cop that fits the profile, hispanic dude got hired on by PHXPD after he left the service - asked him what he would do if he pulled over a car where there was an AR wit a suppressor in the back set - immediate response" ARREST THE DRIVER - I asked him if he knew people could legally own cans - he said no they can't they are illegal...

These are the new breed of asshats that have badges and guns - not ALL but even one is too many if they are this ignorant of the laws and peoples rights.
Everyone knows, I'm not anti police officer, we as a society have need of them, that's a given.

I've never had a bad run in with any police officer, had a bunch pull me over when my Red Jeep had the Raiders thingy on the spare tire, until I replaced it with the Braves emblem, of course neither team can find their own ass with both hands, but that's for another day.

Our county officers wear normal looking uniforms, got a duty belt, but "look" like police officers.
Actually, the country is a little raggedy looking, but not threatening at all in appearance.
City cops, kinda like toy police officers, a little more flashy, but not threatening.
The Arizona Highway Patrol all look like storm troopers, the round service hat, dark glasses, boots, shaved bald heads, spit shined, etc.

Appearance has a meaning for everyone, civilian, military, police, milk men, postal workers, and I'm seeing a trend toward threatening with police officers I'd never noticed before.

Got a friend that kept applying for jobs he should have gotten but didn;t and he asked me why one day, so I told him.

He "looked scary as hell", covered in tats, shaved head, and never really smiled, etc.

A little hair growth, long shelve shirt and tie, and a lot of work on how to smile and be "nice" looking, he's now employed and doing great.

I guess what I'm saying, if this youngster, now ex cop was to confront me, I'd be ready to fight or flight, simply based upon his appearance.
Intimidation has its place, but for a police officer, wearing intimidation daily, 24/7/365 will cause far more issues for the officer, than looking like officer friendly.

If you always look like you're ready for a death struggle, death struggles will always find your ass.
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Old December 10, 2017, 21:50   #88
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In any system of government where people cannot gain justice, then the people take matters into their own hands.
Just saying.
That's what I'm saying. Justice is going to happen one way or the other.
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Old December 10, 2017, 22:05   #89
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That's what I'm saying. Justice is going to happen one way or the other.
From what I've read of your base line attitude about certain issues, we're pretty well connected at the hip.

We'll give the "justice system" a chance, but if the justice systems fails us for any reason concerning what we hold near and dear to us, justice will be done, one way or the other.

That ass wipe in California they just let go, committed career criminal Mexican illegal alien murderer would not be walking the streets a free man, for long, if that was my lovely young daughter shot down on a damned fishing pier.

I see this crap, and always ask, where in the world is the family of the victims.

Families need to step up and fill this void.
Why it does not happen is beyond me.
Civilized I guess.
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Old December 10, 2017, 23:52   #90
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From what I've read of your base line attitude about certain issues, we're pretty well connected at the hip.

We'll give the "justice system" a chance, but if the justice systems fails us for any reason concerning what we hold near and dear to us, justice will be done, one way or the other.

That ass wipe in California they just let go, committed career criminal Mexican illegal alien murderer would not be walking the streets a free man, for long, if that was my lovely young daughter shot down on a damned fishing pier.

I see this crap, and always ask, where in the world is the family of the victims.

Families need to step up and fill this void.
Why it does not happen is beyond me.
Civilized I guess.
Civilized I guess. Even a civilized nation has certain ways of dealing with the likes of that waste of oxygen. While vengeance may be the Lord's , I'm sworn to love and protect the members of my immediate family, using whatever means are at my disposal. He'd never been locked up in a jail cell again, I'd make bloody well certain of that.
Sooner or later, this will happen because of the lack of true justice in this country, and and it'll be the start of something "big".
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Old December 11, 2017, 00:56   #91
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Hopefully "Mitch" will find salvation at the bottom of a fifth of cheap bourbon and an empty bottle of Zoloft, followed by suck-starting a 12 gauge. Preferably sooner rather than later. It will be a fitting end to a coward's pains.
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Old December 11, 2017, 04:20   #92
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I read the guy giving orders in the video is not the same person as the guy with the AR-15. The guy doing the shooting and on trial is not the guy who's voice you hear, giving commands.
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Old December 11, 2017, 07:24   #93
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Full Video...starts with confrontation at 12 minute mark. Discharge of AR at 17 min:



Ar used to shoot the guy crawling on his stomach:



https://www.tmz.com/2017/12/07/mesa-...daniel-shaver/
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Old December 11, 2017, 08:25   #94
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I read the guy giving orders in the video is not the same person as the guy with the AR-15. The guy doing the shooting and on trial is not the guy who's voice you hear, giving commands.
That's interesting. If true, I can see where it would tend to pump up the tension in the shooter as well as the victim. The "dialogue" certainly wasn't conducted in a manner intended to defuse the situation, and it certainly appeared that there was plenty of "wiggle room" to allow that.

Still don't like it much.
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Old December 11, 2017, 10:13   #95
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I agree - hard to take seriously someone with that many tats, which probably contributed to his authority complex as a way of compensation.
self mutilative behaviour (tattoos), like aggressive acts against a disempowered victim, and aggressive posturing displays (tough guy clothes, jobs, & gear) are clear indicators of a history of sexual and physical abuse by a "trust object" (usually their mother's boyfriend) while in childhood, probably pre-adolescent. this kind of person is the result of a society that has high rates of absentee fathering, usually related to welfare subsidy of divorcing women, who have no reason to maintain a stable relationship with their child's father. this guy is the result of a sociological problem. the only solution to the problem is to kill him, and all of those like him. he cannot change.
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"In THAT direction," the Jin said, waving its right paw round, "lives a Han: And in THAT direction," waving the other paw, "lives a Ming Hare. Visit either you like: they're both mad."
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Old December 11, 2017, 12:55   #96
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I read the guy giving orders in the video is not the same person as the guy with the AR-15. The guy doing the shooting and on trial is not the guy who's voice you hear, giving commands.
This is true. Interesting.

Quote:
If you make a mistake, another mistake, there’s a very severe possibility that you’re both going to get shot,” Charles Langley, a since-retired police officer, said. After they both responded, Langley said, “Shut up. I’m not here to be tactful or diplomatic with you. You listen, you obey.”
The situation progressed from there.
“Young man, you are not to move,” Langley said. “You are to put your eyes down and look down at the carpet. You are to keep your fingers interlaced behind your head. You are to keep your feet crossed. If you move, we are going to consider that a threat, and we are going to deal with it, and you may not survive it. Do you understand me?”
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...-daniel-shaver

Hmmm. Seems to be difficult, locating an online photo of Charles Langley.

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Old December 11, 2017, 18:01   #97
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4. His Father Was a Lieutenant in the Mesa PD’s Internal Affairs Unit

https://twitter.com/JamesWyseAZ/stat...93389391302657

Brailsford’s father, also named Philip Brailsford, left the Mesa Police Department last year to join a local law firm. He was a lieutenant and had worked in the department’s Internal Affairs Unit.

According to a press release from the law firm where he now works, Fennemore Craig, the elder Brailsford was a police officer for 19 years, and also served in Afghanistan as a member of the U.S. Army.

He graduated from Arizona State’s law school.
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Old December 11, 2017, 18:02   #98
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The jury didn't see that video. It was released AFTER the verdict.


I'll say what I've been saying for two decades: This is going to keep happening until it becomes personally expensive for the police officer to act in such a fashion.
a lot of things have happened which have changed the prevailing culture within law enforcement.

1. what happened here is the next step in the same mentality which drives shooting peoples pets simply because they can claim they "felt threatened" by a pet.
It is the next step in what has been created by the pretext of 'officer safety'
once upon a time peace officers were respected and venerated for one simple reason. They chose to do a job which they knew placed them in a position of danger due to our civil rights and the bonafide law. the idea of considering everyone and everything a threat and therefore subject to lethal force was not a primary consideration, the idea was keeping the peace, not default escalation to lethal force. Therefore the peace officer deliberately choosing to place himself in the risk of danger to simply keep the peace and treat the public accordingly. No longer, now the public and their pets are treated in default fashion according to "I felt threatened..." via "officer safety"

2. they are not personally financially responsible for their behavior. "qualified immunity" means an officer does not have to face the same legal responsibilities an average individual does when it comes to lethal force.
The lawsuits? Who pays for those? The public ultimately does.
Where does the insurance money come from? The public pays the taxes which pay for the insurance.
When a cop is subject to the same standards the public faces via a shooting, then cops will likely approach lethal force with the same care as does the public.

3. when the legal system treats cops to the same std the public is treated, then things will change.
The video of the shooting was hidden from the jury, the judge thought it would be "unfair" to the cop were the audio / video record of what actually happened were shown to the jury.
Why is it "unfair" or "prejudicial" to show the truth to a jury so they can make a decision based on the facts?
Why was the statement enscribed on that cops rifle not allowed to be shown to the jury?
These very same things would be shown in court were it an ordinary citizen on trial for lethal force.

4. cops nowadays no longer 'keep the peace' were that the case this individual likely would have been handled entirely different. Once he's prone on the ground, he could have been handcuffed and the situation has been deescalated and things have not been escalated up what happened.
The entirety of those cops behavior was to needlessly and wrongfully escalate that situation via the use of fear to terrify that individual, then deliberately confuse him via multiple rapidly screamed commands into a state where he could not comply with what was demanded of him.

these are some of the things which need to be changed and have produced the culture within LE which lead to this young man being wrongfully killed.

add edit; as for the previous bullshit excuses about 'training' & so forth. Cops have been around for how long now? So how much additional training does it take for 5 cops in full armor with rifles to handcuff one guy who is proned out on the deck over and above what they're already taught?
Answer: none. He's proned on the deck, cuff him and the situation is under control and the situation is de-escalated.
You don't want someone moving around because you think they're a threat? don't play boot-camp style "simon says" and have them moving around trying desperately to comply.
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Old December 11, 2017, 18:20   #99
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The victim had already placed his hands back on the floor after pulling up his shorts when the cop shot him. Why wasn't the body cam footage used in the trial? I sat on a jury where a Page pd cop shot a man and we went through the body cam footage frame by frame. We acquitted the cop but I would have sent this pig to prison!
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Old December 11, 2017, 21:33   #100
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[QUOTE=Wil-C;4512287


3. when the legal system treats cops to the same std the public is treated, then things will change.
The video of the shooting was hidden from the jury, the judge thought it would be "unfair" to the cop were the audio / video record of what actually happened were shown to the jury.
Why is it "unfair" or "prejudicial" to show the truth to a jury so they can make a decision based on the facts?
Why was the statement enscribed on that cops rifle not allowed to be shown to the jury?
These very same things would be shown in court were it an ordinary citizen on trial for lethal force.
QUOTE]

My understanding is that the jury was indeed allowed to see the video.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/ampht...2016-shooting/

Am I misreading this ?
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