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Old June 13, 2018, 14:37   #1
hueyville
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Lightweight AR 15 Builds

Another forum participate has active thread on lightweight builds. Guy has a 5.56 AR build down to 2.9 pounds unloaded with no magazine. Using polymer upper, polymer buffer, magnesium lower, carbon fiber forearm, pencil barrel and lightest bolt carrier available. I did a lightweight 5.56 build with 14.7" barrel that landed in the 3.8 pound range unloaded using M16 full auto carrier, H2 buffer, carbon fiber free float forearm, lightweight buffer tube and BUIS sight set. Sub four pounds is almost too light to shoot accurately at distance off hand or kneeling. Some weight helps steady a rifle.
OK
Have an 18" 6.8 ARP barrel, A2 stock, aluminum forearm and with Lancer L7 magazine with ten rounds weighs 6.4 pounds. Have made first round cold bore shots on coyote to 300 yards and ground hogs to 282 yards. Consider that darn good for the 6.8 with me in driving seat as not known for a varmint cartridge. Did not compromise on bolt carrier using an M16 full auto carrier and H2 buffer instead of rifle buffer with M16 Clinic buffer pad to reduce battering of bolt and buffer over time. Unloaded with no magazine it just under 5.5 pounds and has a standard profile 5R barrel with AAC suppressor adapter. The 6.2pound weight is with Nikon 2.5-10x scope plus 1x red dot for CQB use and 10 rounds in magazine.





After reading through a pile of posts where guy was finding parts like receiver pins that saved a few grams, upper that saves an ounce and possibly having a 6.8 barrel reprofiled to pencil believes he can do a sub three pound 6.8 and knock a couple ounces off his 5.56. I totally understand such endeavors as an experiment or challenge because I do similar. After reading thread without digging deeply into vaults found a 3.8 pound 6.8 with optics and sights along with a 3.8 pound 5.56 with optic and sights. These weights were unloaded without magazine. Both would carry in situation where they may have to be pressed into defensive use as are piston drive, magnesium lowers and uppers but would not run them as binary or select fire as a combat fighter would need.

Get in a firefight where guys are running through magazine after magazine of full auto suppressive fire I wonder how long an aluminum bolt carrier with huge amounts of metal hogged out to reduce weight further backed up with a polymer buffer would last before it quit and if shook would sound like a coffee can full of rocks? The above 6.8 build which is very close to the specs of a Mk 12 Mod 1 is almost half the weight with optics. Dual optics with 18" mid weight barrel, M16 carrier and all milspec reciprocating parts would take into a live combat zone without hesitation and look at it as five pounds off my load out or allow me to carry five more loaded magazines without a weight penalty.

I know we have had threads on lightweight builds and most of us have put some effort into reducing weight of your stick on occasion but how light with current parts selection does the peanut gallery believe could build a rifle they would trust to take into combat situation? Have another Mag Tactical magnesium receiver set and if get my Fostech dealership want to order a set of their Fightlite receivers, pull my last 18" Noveske 5.56 barrel then use a titanium M16 carrier with MGI Rate Reduction Buffer to keep cyclic rate in control, lightweight scope mounts and any lightweight part that do not compromise function or strength, feel I could crack skulls or hammer on doors with my SIG carbon fiber A2 stocks. Drop in a binary trigger and believe can build a five pound rifle that will shoot at 500 yards and run high speed mag dumps or double taps on demand without coming unglued. Less than five pounds going to have to shorten barrel and sacrifice some parts that might regret.

What's lightest do all AR 15 folks think you could pull off? Remember a pistol is going to be hard pressed to crack that shot on enemy that's occasionally peeking out from behind cover at 400 yards. Also consider a broken rifle in middle of firefight is death on a stick so carefully consider your build. I do have a 16" White Oak tack driver but the 18's seem to add 100 yards or tad more over my best 16" tubes.
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Old June 13, 2018, 15:28   #2
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IMHO...…

The whole maxi-mini lightweight AR is just pure BS.

Walk 3 miles/5K a few days a week at a semi-quick walking pace. It takes an hour if you go slow, 30 or 40 minutes if you step up the pace a bit or slow-jog a few hundred meters occasionally to get your heart rate up.

Work out your upper body just a little bit. Place a bar-bell in a conspicuous spot in your garage so when you see it, you do 5 or 10 or 20 reps.

If spending hundreds of bucks in knocking a pound or two off of a rifle is your "make or break" point for the zombie apocalypse, you should re-evaluate your situation.

Personally I am a 53 y/o, 20 pounds overweight, generally "un-fit, old dude", but a 7# AR vs a 5# AR (or any other comparative weight reduction) would be the least of my worries if the SHTF.

YMMV
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Old June 13, 2018, 16:55   #3
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but, but if you have 5# AR then you can also carry a 2# 1911
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Old June 13, 2018, 17:36   #4
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Yep Mike. It’s the same with racing bicycles. People who aren’t professionals spend big money on lightening parts to knock off a couple of pounds. Hell back off a few calories and lose a couple of pounds unless you’re down to 10% or below body fat.
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Old June 13, 2018, 17:40   #5
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Damn if I lost weight then I could afford to carry a saw with four belts of ammo ...well Mabye a bofors 57mm if I really get close to ideal weight
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Old June 14, 2018, 07:43   #6
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Nothing wrong with a light rifel in 5.56, esp if your body hurts.
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Old June 14, 2018, 08:41   #7
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I once observed a female hiker blow a gasket because she was given a couple dollars (in quarters) change for a $5 bill, instead of folding money.
This was in the North Carolina Appalachians, near the trail, at a nice mountain general store circa 1987, and the store was out of $1's.
I guess the hiker didn't think she could spend $2 on her way to Maine.
The female proprietor of the general store was saintly in dealing with the insane hiker.
Made a lasting impression on me...

The older I get, the more I appreciate a *light* rifle, but most mine are pigs.
May not be ideal for carrying, but they are sure sweet for shooting.
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Old June 14, 2018, 09:55   #8
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In my Navy days we still had the 1911s, M-14s, M-60s, and M2s. Since we weren't expected to hump anything anywhere we got the older, rebuilt stuff on the ship. We also needed something to throw lines and the M-14 was great in that respect (and at the time I don't think anything had been developed for any other weapons). So, going to the range and such, the M-14 was what I learned a battle rifle weighed. Hell I never saw an M-16 during my military days. When I built my first AR others called it a pig because I had it over 9lbs with glass and such. I thought it felt nicely weighted, compared to the old M-14s. When I built my 300BO pistol, and with a full mag, RDS plus magnifier, on a billet set, and it still went under 7lbs, I was amazed. Now I've built the cheapie 16" lightweight that's a tic under 6lbs empty, and I have to remind myself not to throw it across the room when I pick it up. When I go out I still typically take the M1a and the FAL, which are now the pigs on the farm compared to any of the ARs.

Ultimately it's all relative, and when I compare my heaviest AR to my lightest .308 battle rifle, the AR still feels like a feather. I mean seriously, have we become the same whiny bitches we complain about? I think about carrying a Garand or worse, a BAR, across Europe and again, worse, across whatever $#!+hole Pacific island that had to be invaded, and know I've got it good compared to my grandfathers. 9lbs with ranging illuminated glass that is .75moa capable and effective to 600yds is better than anything those guys had access to. I know when I've got it pretty good.
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Old June 14, 2018, 10:18   #9
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Raced bicycles for 20 years all the way up to Cat 2 and spent large money to drop weight of bicycle to spending $100 just for a pair of titanium screws and wire frame to hold a water bottle. As continued to pair down a bike to get that last pound or two off could spend as much $100 per gram to save weight. Titanium and carbon fiber have become much more common today than when I was racing but remember a company that hand laid some of the first carbon seat posts. Had two versions, 160 pound weight limit and 180 pound weight limit for big sprinters. No warranty, if broke first trip out or installing it was on you. I would buy in pairs and get several months in general and finished last 20 miles of a road race on pedals because it broke on last big climb. Reason for no warranty was most people didn't have a inch/pound torque wrench and broke them over tightening the screws.

At time was riding a frame with 160 pound rider limit during racing season and could only use it mid summer through fall as always put weight on for winter ice climbing season. After first mountaineering trip when spring melt reduced avalanche danger and allowed access to trails to remote valleys would drop ten pounds per trip and by June was usually 148 (meant was near death from month in South America) to 155 and tried to maintain 153 because like equipment if body weighed too little less lost endurance and was harder to pull crux of technical rock climb or pedal bicycle up climbs like Brasstwn Bald. Would eat my way up to 165 in winter and if going to Colorado or Canada for winter trip would drive weight up to 168. Now I am heaviest have ever been in life at 188 and due to degeneration of disks and broken vertebrae am 5' 10" rather than 5' 11". Some is posture due to way stand with displaced hips but need to loose weight to reduce stress on knees, hips and back.

Why worry about dropping two pounds of a rifle when need to drop 20 pounds off my wide @$$? We used to laugh like he!! when some guy whose belly hung over his belt would come in bicycle shop and spend a grand to drop a pound off weight of his bike or $6,000 to buy complete lighter ride. Unless you have at least support from local bike shop or local/regional team the same bike Le Tour riders are racing may not be necessary. Had one part time guy at bike shop that was actual competative racer on a decent U.S. team tell a customer he needed to skip a Big Mac or two per day and drop 50 pounds before he considered buying a top line bike. Have what was a $9,000 total custom carbon bike ordered in 2009 just before broke back and neck, it came in afterwards and has less than 400 miles on it. Can't ride much out of site of house on a bike without suspension now.

One of my overt armor and load bearing kits is a Tactical Tailor "Fightlite" kit. Armor carrier, mag pouches, accessory pouches water bladder and assault pack withsame load out of ammo, equipment and armor as an IOTV set saves almost five pounds in fabric and suspension system. Using my Dyneema Level 3++ plates and lightest soft armor panels the full kit drops over fifteen pounds and has same threat level plus multihit capability as a U.S. IOTV with single hit SAPI rifle plates. Dropping fifteen pounds off my kit along with a couple pounds off a rifle along with other accessories and compensates for the extra 20 pounds of FAT but am on a diet and working with my physical therapy folks to knock ten pounds off by fall and then try to stay static over winter and drop next ten pounds starting next spring. Hard to lose weight during holiday eating fests, short days and cold weather.

Whether it be bicycling, mountaineering or hunting seems like the folks see in outfitters spending the most money to buy lightest weight equipment are usually 220 pounds or more. In below picture the guy in green on left and heavy set guy on far right behind right were actually comparing weight of different AR 15's looking for lightest rifle in their price range as well as were discussing weight on the their AR 450 steel plate armor purchased on fleabay and how uncomfortable. Wanted to know if gun shop had lighter and more comfortable armor in XXXL and XXXXXL. I was so stunned had to sneak this picture. Tell me saving two pounds off rifle is going to help either?



That said asked one of my part timers in local F.D. why had guys that weighed 250 to 290 pound weight limit. He said they needed them just like needed skinny kids to send up ladders and into small areas to search for kids. Said put someone my size (10 years ago) on a 3" hose and it would fly me like a kite and a big guy saved putting two normal size men on a single big hose. Have a 2" stand pipe and hose at house between meter and cut off so can kill water pressure to house but still have a 2" hose and nozzle that reaches basement door. If get out before F.D. shows can start spraying and hand over so they can use while crew is dragging a supply line from fire hydrant across street. Also said a 250 pound man can boot most doors open first kick while 160 pound kids just bounce off and have to chop it open with an ax.

Am not disrespecting overweight people just engaging open dialogue. Over my life whatever sport it often seems the person's most concerned about weight of gear are least concerned about their own weight. My Tactical Tailor " Fightlite" kit for true warfighters is rated in number of missions lifespan not number of deployments. Wear it for two or three missions and discard. For special ops teams that have to go somewhere unsupported and can swap 15 pounds of kit for 15 pounds of extra ammo is a win/win even if trash their load bearing gear after every mission. Those same guys don't seem to be trying to save a couple pounds off weight of weapon though. Otherwise the Mk 12 Mod 0, 1 and H would be slap full of lightweight parts and they are not.
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Old June 14, 2018, 10:43   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TenTea View Post
I once observed a female hiker blow a gasket because she was given a couple dollars (in quarters) change for a $5 bill, instead of folding money.
This was in the North Carolina Appalachians, near the trail, at a nice mountain general store circa 1987, and the store was out of $1's.
I guess the hiker didn't think she could spend $2 on her way to Maine.
The female proprietor of the general store was saintly in dealing with the insane hiker.
Made a lasting impression on me...

The older I get, the more I appreciate a *light* rifle, but most mine are pigs.
May not be ideal for carrying, but they are sure sweet for shooting.
I know the type, deal with through hikers all the time beginning the trail as closest bus station to start of A.T. is near my work and my farm is two miles downriver from official start. Used to ferry truckloads of hikers from Gainesville to Amicalola Falls all spring, still do when can help them out. Spent much of my life along the AT from beginning through Virginia and the first 40 miles take a large number out and it's amazing the amount of unnecessary gear find abandoned along first few sections of trail.

Used to be a saying among hikers and mountaineers that removing a pound of weight off your feet is equivalent to five pounds off your back. Recently read a new study where a university group used math and study of ergonomics along with other factors and determined that for each pound reduced off footwear is equal to saving 6.4 pounds off back. It's why 20 years ago hikers went to "light-hiker" boots that lasted a season instead of a few seasons and boot companies began using advanced materials in boots. Have a pair of Galibier Super Guide single layer non insulated mountaineering boots from back in the day with steel shanks for use with crampons and a pair of leather insulated boots that weigh over 12 pounds for use in Andes and Himalaya. Now can get a better boot that's warmer and performs better that weighs five pounds per pair.

My trekking poles went from a stick to aluminum to carbon fiber. Packs weigh half of what they did as well as stoves and other equipment. Use single wall Goretex tents and every weight saving trick can find and a mountaineering load out to base camp is still over 90 pounds. First trip I took to Wind Rivers where planned two weeks near Gannet Peak and total of 17 days from car to car had 105 pounds total gear and food first day. Because crossed a lot of water first two days would only keep a half bottle of water max till ate some food and got past Freemont Peak. Then had to worry about saving fuel melting snow for water and kept all bottles and bladders full up over last pass.

Swapping climbing gear for combat gear sure the weight would be similar and understand a 90 pound total load out is still common. So yes, a few pounds off rifle may be nice but a broken rifle would suck worse. Think my next project idps going to be to see if can build a 4.9 pound rifle that can butt stroke someone, take a beating and repeated binary mag dumps and keep running. I don't think the sub three pound rifle parts list will hold up to hard abuse. Reason have built so many AR 15's in 6.8 is starting to realize as hit my 60's and 70's moving around quickly with a M1a much less my wide @$$ may be more than can handle so a 6.8 gives me a hard hitting rifle in the six pound range.
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Old June 14, 2018, 13:28   #11
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I have an appreciation for lightweight rifles due to a surgery that required the removal of muscle, bone, and 1 artery from my left arm.
I can still manage a standard rifle, but light ones are easier, and vertical foregrips are really helpful.
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Old June 14, 2018, 13:52   #12
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Standing on a perimeter or following the trail of an armed subject and I'll take every pound off a rifle I can get. Doesn't matter how fit you are, any long gun will wear on your ass the longer you carry it. Used to be a time in the UK when I was a part time gamekeeper I would carry both a shotgun and a rifle with me all the time while checking my traps, feeding pheasants and controlling vermin. I worked on keeping the weight as low as possible on both guns and I follow that credo moving forward.

Carrying an SA80 on operations in Northern Ireland was easier due to the sling design but it was still wearing after 18 hour foot patrols. I'd rather have a lighter rifle than attempting to do PT to cope with a heavier one.
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Old June 14, 2018, 14:58   #13
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But how much would you sacrifice potential durability for weight reduction in a combat arm? That's the question I am asking. Since usually have a couple of rifles in the truck I could risk runnning a sub four pound rifle and if broke a part hope for time to dive for backup.

Would you carry a rifle with polymer upper, lightened aluminum bolt carrier, polymer buffer and thinnest/lightest carbon fiber forearm into harms way? I do a lot of odd builds as exercises in experimentation. I have no issue with people trying to attain a sub "whatever" weight build of any type rifle for the sake of innovation but trying to figure out what the group feels is maximum deviation from milspec acceptible for a rifle might have to fight with for extended period especially if requires occasional high volume of fire.

I know you have a very strong knowledge of poodle shooters from the development and abuse sides of equation and would you swap a milspec upper for a polymer? Aluminum skeletonized bolt carrier for steel? Or what alloy and weight carrier would you accept? I have a titanium full auto M16 carrier inbound as saves six ounces and assume will not break but going to beat the crap out of it to see. My new goal is to see what the lightest build I can do that have full confidence in as a forever, end of world rifle if that were to become an issue. As passed my 55th birthday am realizing weight and recoil are not the friend of the aging.

BTW, good to see you drop in Gman...
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Old June 14, 2018, 17:50   #14
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Considering a situation like an EMP, in which there will be no re-supply or spare parts for years, one would need to have a rifle on one's person 24/7/365. What would be the best choice for durability and light weight and ease of repair in the field?
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Old June 14, 2018, 20:31   #15
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Considering a situation like an EMP, in which there will be no re-supply or spare parts for years, one would need to have a rifle on one's person 24/7/365. What would be the best choice for durability and light weight and ease of repair in the field?
Probably *America's rifle* aka MSR...due to sheer numbers in service nationwide.
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Old June 14, 2018, 21:25   #16
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I am thinking the lightweight AR is the way to go, but how light? What will last with abuse over a long period of time?
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Old June 14, 2018, 22:45   #17
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Considering a situation like an EMP, in which there will be no re-supply or spare parts for years, one would need to have a rifle on one's person 24/7/365. What would be the best choice for durability and light weight and ease of repair in the field?
The one that has ammo....even if it's the opposing weoponry. Always use the one that has ammo.
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Old June 15, 2018, 05:49   #18
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That's another contention of mine with super lightweight builds. A loaded magazine weighs 1.5 pounds so if cut 1.5 pounds off rifle and there is a sacrifice of durability is saving the weight of one loaded magazine off the weight of rifle was it worth the possibility rifle might quit? Loaded magazines with broken rifle are as bad as empty magazines with running rifle.
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Old June 15, 2018, 08:41   #19
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I enjoy a light weapon. I have made several, but it would seem that mine wouldn't fit into this category because they don't have 16 inch barrels.

That's OK, but I'm going to share my builds anyway.

1. Integrally suppressed 9mm AR15 firearm.

Barrel cut down to 6.75" and then chucked up in my lathe and the profile turned down and also cut grooved into it to act as not only further lightning cuts but also as a heat sink since it is an integrally suppressed upper kind of like how a tommy gun barrel look. It also gives me a good index of where to port the barrel.

The suppressor body is the handguard itself so it adds no weight to the gun. Baffles and internals are made of 7075 aluminum and add a grand total of 7.2 oz, which is less than the weight that I removed by shortening and rethreading the barrel.

Since 9mm AR's don't utilize a forward assist, it has a slickside upper to save some weight there.

With a small red dot optic and empty mag, weighs in at about 5.2 lbs. I can shave more weight by removing the light and stuff, but I have it set up how I want it. It shoots good, and it just feels right on the hands the way it is.

2. Integrally suppressed 300 blk.

I did the barrel much the same on it. Removed several ounces of barrel just behind the gas block alone by turning it down more. I could've turned it down more but being a 30 cal bullet, I didn't want to compromise the strength of the barrel shaving closer to the bore so I left it a little larger than a "true" pencil barrel profile.

Integral suppressor body is titanium. Baffles are 7075 aluminum and there isn't another like it anywhere. They turned out really good. Good compromise of strength to mass. And they hold onto the gas longer than anything else I have ever seen due to how I made them.

Since I use non-traditional powders in my hand loads, I not only wanted a lightweight bolt and buffer setup, it was necessary to get them to cycle fully.

Being subsonics, I don't worry about the gun not holding up to prolonged use as you mentioned. It's set up correctly and properly to run just the way it is.

It does have a traditional upper with forward assist and all that, as it should.

While not a super-lightweight, it is still lighter than stripped off the shelf AR and it's just the way I like it.
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Old June 15, 2018, 10:57   #20
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a 7lb M4A1 Socom and carry 800 rds. ?

or a 5lb. R6530 SL and carry 1000 rds. ?

I'll take the M4A1 Socom and carry 800 rds any day .
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Old June 15, 2018, 14:01   #21
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If i'm going to be skimpy with weight during a Run-n-Gun. Or anytime.

The rifle is NOT were i'm going to do it.
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Old June 15, 2018, 19:49   #22
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I'm old and fat and don't care if my AR's are 5lbs or 10. If the unthinkable happens I'll be standing in one spot doing the best I can.
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Old June 15, 2018, 19:57   #23
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But how much would you sacrifice potential durability for weight reduction in a combat arm? That's the question I am asking. Since usually have a couple of rifles in the truck I could risk runnning a sub four pound rifle and if broke a part hope for time to dive for backup.

Would you carry a rifle with polymer upper, lightened aluminum bolt carrier, polymer buffer and thinnest/lightest carbon fiber forearm into harms way? I do a lot of odd builds as exercises in experimentation. I have no issue with people trying to attain a sub "whatever" weight build of any type rifle for the sake of innovation but trying to figure out what the group feels is maximum deviation from milspec acceptible for a rifle might have to fight with for extended period especially if requires occasional high volume of fire.

I know you have a very strong knowledge of poodle shooters from the development and abuse sides of equation and would you swap a milspec upper for a polymer? Aluminum skeletonized bolt carrier for steel? Or what alloy and weight carrier would you accept? I have a titanium full auto M16 carrier inbound as saves six ounces and assume will not break but going to beat the crap out of it to see. My new goal is to see what the lightest build I can do that have full confidence in as a forever, end of world rifle if that were to become an issue. As passed my 55th birthday am realizing weight and recoil are not the friend of the aging.

BTW, good to see you drop in Gman...
I got some of the Mag Tactical lowers and would be comfortable using one of them for a lower. Remainder would be box stock mil spec other than a pencil barrel. Nothing exotic, just regular items. Plenty of lightweight handguards out there, including carbon fiber if you so desired.

Working on a new work gun right now which will be a one stamp permanently attached suppressed rifle with an LWRC piston set up under an MI suppressor HG. Gotta machine the hand guard nut for the piston system to fit but easy enough once I have an adapter machined up.

Folding LAW type stock because I think I can rework one of the Chinese rip off copies for longevity by swapping some of the shitty components like the unknown quality springs and some internals for better stuff. I need a folder as the unit I am assigned (made in Australia Chevy Caprice) can barely fit a 16" barrel gun in it. Had to build another folding stock 870 as the fixed stock doesn't fit at ALL so rides in the trunk. I'd run a regular LAW folder but the damn thing is all steel and heavy as hell.
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Old June 16, 2018, 10:51   #24
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I saw two guys with these 3.9 oz AR handguards at a Front Sight class. Made from braided carbon fiber tubes shrouded by a protective jacket. These are the lightest handguards anywhere. Yet, it’ll support 100 pounds of weight in any direction. See http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...-in-the-world/

The two guys using them were in their 60's (but maybe 10 years younger than me) and complained that a standard weigh AR made them feel like their arms would fall off after the first day of class. Ha! But I finally got my DG in practical rifle using my 300 BO that weighs about 6.5 lbs. Now on to Precision Rifle with my 14 lb. Tikka T3x Tac A1 in 6.5 cm.
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Old June 16, 2018, 16:26   #25
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I enjoy a light weapon. I have made several, but it would seem that mine wouldn't fit into this category because they don't have 16 inch barrels.

That's OK, but I'm going to share my builds anyway.

1. Integrally suppressed 9mm AR15 firearm.

(Trim)

2. Integrally suppressed 300 blk.

While not a super-lightweight, it is still lighter than stripped off the shelf AR and it's just the way I like it.
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I got some of the Mag Tactical lowers and would be comfortable using one of them for a lower. Remainder would be box stock mil spec other than a pencil barrel. Nothing exotic, just regular items. Plenty of lightweight handguards out there, including carbon fiber if you so desired.

Working on a new work gun right now which will be a one stamp permanently attached suppressed rifle with an LWRC piston set up under an MI suppressor HG. Gotta machine the hand guard nut for the piston system to fit but easy enough once I have an adapter machined up.
(Trim)
My last two SBR's have pinned suppressors on 11.5" and 12.5" barrels for single stamp guns and with suppressor weigh under seven pounds with their cans nailed on. Used lightweight Mag Tactical lowers on both and will with future builds since still have over 90 put back. Have been learning how to source durable and light parts that do not cost triple what a milspec or generic freefloat handguard or stock costs but am sticking with my milspec M16 full weight reciprocating parts. Why I posted the 18" 6.8 near top of thread. Guarantee it can take all the abuse a milspec M4 will and at 6.8 pounds fully loaded using stainless magazine loaded with 25 rounds and 6.2 with 10 rounds in a Lancer L7 on a mid weight 18" barrel it will thump things hard and is super accurate.

Have spent a lot of time trying to determine which parts can sacrifice weight on and not compromise durability and keep build cost reasonable. Built a 7.5", 11.5" and 16" 6.8 spc II's on 1:7 twist Bison barrels to be my subsonic rifle but with the 200 grain bullet they are designed around do not deliver that knock down punch I was hoping for. The 7.5" if have to use full power ammo actually feels like it wants to pull the baffles out of an AAC 762SDN suppressor. Without a can fireball in face is rude but weighs very little. Have a passel of 12.5" to 14.7" 5.56 and 6.8's that all weigh around the five pound range and half have binary triggers and will run mag dumps with utter reliablity.

Am currently waiting on a Form 4 stamp to build an 8.5" barrel 458 SOCOM with pinned suppressor. It's going to be a 100% subsonic rifle and all the research have done seems to say 8.5" is all a 458 SOCOM needs to reach maximum velocity when run subsonic.

The can is coming from a direct person to person transfer and is an 8" can designed for use on a 45-70. It's a sealed can and once pinned will be 16.5" from bolt face to end of muzzle. Projectiles will spend as much time in suppressor as barrel so with subsonic ammo expect it to be very quiet with projectile hitting target and sound of M16 full auto bolt and heavy buffer clanging back and forth being majority of sound signature.

Doing a 10.5" 458 SOCOM pistol build to use with one of my AAC Hybrid cans and it will be a subsonic gun only. Except for using cast bullets on range will most likely develop two loads using 350 grain Barnes copper solids and 450 grain Lehigh specialty projectile. Actually have three 458 SOCOM kits which will be my subsonic round of choice more than likely.

Have yet to resort to polymer uppers nor lightweight carriers but for a subsonic 300 BO a lighter carrier and buffer would likely be fine. Why have the titanium M16 carrier inbound along with some titanium gas blocks, receiver pins and other small parts that can save a few grams here and there without affecting durability/function. Have "pistols" that weigh as little as 3.8 pounds unloaded and no suppressor attached. Load them up, add a can and weigh same as an unloaded M4 and did not sacrifice any on their reciprocating parts but built as piston drive which will not judge till at least one of them reaches 5,000 round count and doesn't break. Not that I expect it but need to see how they act after a decent round count.

I want a combination of rifles that hit hard running subsonic, accurate past 500 yard and then fall in between the two extremes that can use as age creeps up on me. Have a 20" 22 Nosler that weighs 6.5 pounds unloaded that will shoot to 600 yards. Actually have four 22 Noslers for this purpose. When I am 75 will need a rifle can carry, shoot and not break my shoulder or hurt my already broken neck. Have shot some three pound rifles and the recoil impulse sucked. I figure with a few AR enthusiasts sharing their tricks a relatively easy to source parts list for a durable five pound rifle should be easy and don't see how a three pound rifle could hold up to heavy use for extended period.
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Old June 18, 2018, 17:52   #26
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Would you carry a rifle with polymer upper, lightened aluminum bolt carrier, polymer buffer and thinnest/lightest carbon fiber forearm into harms way?
I would not. At least, not more than a couple of times. Polymer receivers and thin carbon fiber handguards are too fragile for the day to day rough use a serious business AR is likely to see. (I have a couple of normal thickness carbon fiber free float tubes and they have stood up to normal use so far.)

I wouldn't worry about the durability of an aluminum carrier or polymer buffers, but lightening the reciprocating reduces relibility.

A tuner could get an AR with a lightened carrier and buffer to run, but with a greatly limited span of operation. What ammo it would run with would be severely limited. After experimenting with gas flow and buffer weights, I have found that H, H2, A5H2 and rifle buffers with quality springs give reliable function with a wide span of function. For a serious use AR, the best combination I've found is an A5 RE with A5H2 buffer and Sprinco green spring with a full auto carrier.

I would not hesitate to use a lightweight profile barrel. They do heat up with fewer rounds, but that won't be a problem for house defense or police duty. It would take a lot rounds to burn out an AR pencil barrel. If a civilian or police officer finds themselves in a shootout so intense that heat becomes a real issue, they needed to bring more friends, not a heavier barrel.

If you want to know what a solid lightweight fighting AR looks like, take a look at the Colt 6720.
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Old June 20, 2018, 09:21   #27
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I have been putting together my bug out AR. The idea is that since I am old and can't carry the weight I used to, I build something that's a good tool for on the run. Understand that the tool is built to fit a purpose and it's to escape and evade after I am run out of my house.

Colt Carbine pencil barrel upper with small handguard. Entry suppressor that is made to take muzzle blast out. Burris scope on PER mount https://www.opticsplanet.com/burris-...-fastfire.html

Chose that scope because it is clear and has option of lighted reticle.

Gun loaded is still a little heavy but far lighter than anything else I have. Sighted it in with suppressor and I am well pleased with accuracy.

I figure with the equipment I need on the run i will have four mags of ammo is all. A quiet rifle with 120 rounds should be enough to get away.

I have been thinking about adding a trigger to it for better accuracy as my target heavy barrel really improved with a new trigger.
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Old June 20, 2018, 11:47   #28
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I have been thinking about adding a trigger to it for better accuracy as my target heavy barrel really improved with a new trigger.
With the price of quality triggers these days, there's no reason not to get one. Mil-spec AR triggers are not the easiest to shoot well, no matter who you are. Good glass, good trigger, good barrel, good fundamentals- all the rest is icing.
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Old June 20, 2018, 11:52   #29
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I put one of these in my target gun and just love it. Thinking my bog needs one too.

https://pof-usa.com/product/drop-in-trigger-system/
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Old June 26, 2018, 21:52   #30
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I put one of these in my target gun and just love it. Thinking my bog needs one too.

https://pof-usa.com/product/drop-in-trigger-system/
Those are nice triggers. I like the LaRue triggers too.
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Old June 27, 2018, 22:07   #31
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I put one of these in my target gun and just love it. Thinking my bog needs one too.

https://pof-usa.com/product/drop-in-trigger-system/
Agree , they have a smooth pull . I have a POF in my M4

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Old June 30, 2018, 08:50   #32
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If you want to know what a solid lightweight fighting AR looks like, take a look at the Colt 6720.
The first AR I bought was a Colt Lightweight Sporter. I pulled the fixed A2 stock and put on a collapsible stock and basically turned it in to a Colt 6520. I used it as my patrol rifle. It is very light and functions is very reliable. I have put it through a lot of abuse in some of the training courses I’ve taken it to. I’ve taken it to three week long courses where we put more than 2k rounds down range each week with out any stoppages. I did break the original extractor pin but the gun was still running just fine. The instructor was a Colt Armor and had an extra one, swapped me parts as he had never seen one fail before and wanted it for show-n-tell.

The only problem I’ve run into with my Colt comes while shooting at distance. It has horrible accuracy past 200 yards and the hotter the barrel gets the more inconsistent it becomes. I have had as much as 16 to 18 inches difference in point of aim verses point of impact at 300 meters ( we were on a military base known distant range). However, shooting at distance wasn’t what I had planned on using it for. This was my Patrol rifle for up close out to about 100 yards situations, which it functions great. Several situations were ended quickly when it came out. Had one where a guy was barricade in his car and was refusing to show his hands even with about a dozen officers pointing handguns at him. When he saw my little AR his eyes got really big and his hands came up really fast.

But would I run a polymer upper- no, aluminum bolt carrier-no, light weight carbon fiber hand guard-yes, polymer buffer tube-no. I’ve seen the videos of polymer uppers/lowers being run over by lawn mowers and been ok but I’m not taking any chances to save a few ounces. Hell my kit weights north of 70 pounds fully loaded. Yeah ounces equal pounds and pounds equal pain but everything I got I’ve used except my IFAK which I’m not getting rid of.
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Old June 30, 2018, 16:20   #33
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Off Topic Segway on Weight of Ancillary Equipment

I am all about saving weight but doing it where it makes most sense. Armor/Load Bearing kit is easiest place to do it. A set of U.S.G.I. issue SAPI rifle plates are super heavy, break if their dropped and may not take a second round if hits close to first.

IOTV SAPI Ceramic Rifle Plate
Quote:
Large – 10" by 13" inches (25 by 33 cm). Weight 7.2 pounds (3.3 kilograms).
Compared to my newest set of Level 3+ Hardwire multi-hit plates at 2.25 pounds each, just the swap of front and rear plates saves 9.9 pounds. A set of U.S.G.I. ceramic 6"×6" side plates weigh 2.0 pounds each and my Level 3+ 6"×9" Dyneema (extra 3" of coverage) weigh 0.9 pounds each so trims another 2.2 pounds totalling 12.1 pounds off just weight of milspec set of plates which negates weight of a rifle and significant ammo load out, compared to ceramic and especially steel plates so many people are using they save even more.

Quote:
NIJ Model HW-LWP-III*NIJ Level 3 Lightweight Multi Curved Plate*provides body protection at NIJ Level 3 performance weighing only 2.25 lbs is Hardwire's lightest Level 3 body armor solution.* Made of Dyneema® with durable black nylon cover. Multi-curve plate fits most plate carriers and vests.

Specifications: 10" x 12" Weighs 2.25 lbs -*1.1" thick. Neutrally buoyant (it floats!) Dyneema ® Construction. NIJ 0101.06 NIJ Level 3 Compliant Protection against the following additional threats: 7.62x39 PS Ball (steel core) 5.56x45 M193 FMJ Durable black nylon cover. Fits most vests & plate carriers. 10 year Warranty. 100% Made in USA.
Next set of plates am eyeing will drop more weight and bulk but need to wait and get manufacturer to cut a deal after get over inital onslaught of sales to dot gov agencies with unlimited budgets. Yesterday wore pair of newer 8"×10" Level 3[ multihit plates in covert armor scored for half of wholesale going to doctor in Atlanta and while wife was having outpatient in facility across the street. Are rated to stop up to minumum of three hits of 7.62 NATO ball and do not gouge into my back when sitting in truck for 90 minutes. The 8"×10" Level 3 plates are 0.90" thick, weigh 1.6 pounds each, 0.30" of thickness is a very cushy closed cell foam padding. Current everyday 6"×9" covert plates weigh less than a pound, just under 1/2" thick and stop 7.62×39 lead core in conjunction with soft armor. Technology in ammo and armor is changing almost monthly so soon as new plate hits market someome immediately goes to work on projectile to defeat it.

Have gone to higher threat level helmet that drops half pound, dropped over a pound in carrier and another pound in load bearing gear. Dropped two pounds in communication gear with increased capabilities and more battery life, almost a pound in camo fatigues that are fire proof, blast resistant, insect repellent and more. Underwear is now shrapnel rated and adds no weight unless slip the Level 1 trauma panels (four ounces) in that protect femural artery. Dropped a pound off boost and a pound off your feet is equal to 6.4 pounds off your back according to researchers. Switched to lightweight packs, and all sorts of equipment choices that have increased durability, increased threat levels and significant weight losses.

Sans ammo current kit including armor, load bearing equipment, clothing and footwear drops almost a dozen pounds off my last kit which was way lighter than current U.S.G.I issue. If pile up everything in U.S.G.I. 60 pound combat load for a patrol and weigh it all down to IFAK, headset, radios, PTT switch in a standard infantry soldiers equipment list using IOTV armor with current issue ceramic SAPI plates versus my upgraded plates, soft goods, etc save just shy of twenty pounds over a USGI load out with previous kit and twenty-four pounds with newest kit.

Quote:
The Modern Soldier's Inventory. Today the average US soldier carries at least*60 pounds of gear, with an extended patrol often doubling that weight. Specialized warfighters, such as Automatic Riflemen, Combat Medics, and Special Operations can see totals much higher.
What does this have to do with the weight of a rifle? If going in harms way where need a rifle a person needs armor, spare ammo, water, calories and equipment. If able to walk out the door twenty-four pounds lighter with a "basic riflemans kit" a sprint from corner of house to far end of yard is going to be quicker, burn less energy and allow someone to stay stronger for longer period of time without worrying about trimming a rifle to three pounds but can carry a 5.5 pound rifle that know will run endless binary or full auto mag dumps if needed without breaking. Saving weight is a big deal but know a guy who built a sub four pound rifle and his plates weigh 10.5 pounds each. He is on third carrier as the plates keep blowing seams. As configured with no comms, no IFAK and worn with just spare magazines/ammo kit weighs over thirty pounds so why a 3.5 pound rifle?

Now have covert armor that stops special threat handgun rounds able to wear doing manual labor in 90°+ hot sun, rifle rated covert armor can wear when grocery shopping, going to doctors, etc. Now have three NIJ Level 4 multi-hit kits that weigh less than current issue milspec Level 3 kits. Scored four looking for a kit for Files member and weight/threat level/cost ratio had to buy every set seller had.

Have not worked more than a couple hours per day in almost two weeks due to pinched nerve but doc injected a boat load of steroids in lumbar spine yesterday, gave me a script for a new to market non narcotic, abuse resistant pain medication that won't be at pharmacies for another couple months but loaded me up with samples and tomorrow after church am going in to repackage some armor and shoot some plates sent to me by a company do their pre NIJ certification testing who really need to know if need to change design before sending for NIJ certification.

They tested in-house but landlord of multi-tenant industrial building came in with a contractor doing repairs, saw their 25 foot test range for testing from point blank range out to close quarters range with 308 and .223 in rifle locks he flipped out and told them no shooting in his building. Knew they made ballistic panels before signed lease and they are stuck for three years then cost of moving will negate benefits of move when can mail me plates then get back in mail with video, still photographs and written report. Am working on an armor website but spend more time shooting their product and looking for more armor to shoot for website and installing barrier products for churches and cash teller stations.

Am waffling on my section of "how to defeat" most armor as afraid will be misused by someone. But with over 300 people per day and 120,000 shot per year in U.S. consider wearing armor as important as carrying a gun or wearing seat belts in vehicle. While generally wear covert armor always have carrier with rifle plates in truck. Yesterday helped wife get into gown in preop then went across street to do my deal with another surgeon. When they weighed me and saw scales tip 202 pounds and subtracted the 20 pounds automatically for weapons and armor told them had new heavier armor and was carrying a second gun as well.

Got back to hospital waiting on wife nurse came and asked me for help as they could not figure out how to put her "back brace" on. Entered post op room about time another nurse was reading instructions on label inside and realized it was a bullet resistant vest not a back brace. The wife was still stoned from anesthesia and when they asked if had to wear the armor she slurred out "don't you know we are in the worst part of Zone 2?" They looked puzzled, I told them their hospital was in middle of Atlanta P.D. Zone 2, murders were up 25% in Zone 2, crime map shows average of two significant violent crimes on their campus per day, dozens of robberies and more vehicle break-ins and auto thefts. Also SUR-13 and Black Mafia Family are fighting for control of their block to sell dope to seekers that get denied by Emergency Room and addicts/homeless that use hospital parking decks, restrooms, lounges when weather is bad and the two stronger gangs are fighting each other plus trying to push out several smaller gangs. Nurses and assistants had blank stares as sank in they were in middle of significant crime zone no matter which door exited building from.

Mentioned wife and I have worked around hospitals for decades and old people with mobility issues are big targets so we wear armor just like they wear gloves and masks with patients that are bleeding. Recommended they take a close look at every EMT and security officer on campus and some staff in Emergency Room. Amazing how little people know about their immediate surroundings. If you really need a rifle then likely need rifle armor close. If worried about what your rifle weighs should worry about weight of armor which is much easier to drop weight from and keep full functionality. If bugging out what does your pack, stove, tent, sleeping bag or whatever gear choose to carry weigh and can you trim weight there that's smarter than building a superlight rifle?
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Old July 06, 2018, 20:52   #34
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I am thinking the lightweight AR is the way to go, but how light? What will last with abuse over a long period of time?
A M16 weighs 6.4 pounds and holds up fine.

4" of barrel, swapping the 11oz stock for something lighter, losing a few ounces of ejection port cover, etc. isn't going to hurt durability.
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Old July 07, 2018, 09:51   #35
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A M16 weighs 6.4 pounds and holds up fine.

4" of barrel, swapping the 11oz stock for something lighter, losing a few ounces of ejection port cover, etc. isn't going to hurt durability.
5.0 to 5.5 without scope and mount is easy to build a sub MOA rifle with 18" barrel that is as durable or maybe more durable than a military issue M4 without skimping on mass of reciprocating parts.
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Old July 07, 2018, 15:54   #36
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I make tradeoffs for my perceived needs. I chose the Burris scope with the fast fire even though it's heavy because it gave me versitile types of targeting. A 1x4 scope for distance with a lighted reticle if needed and a red dot for fast target. Price was affordable and scope is really great so far. It's a bug out gun meant to get out of dodge when I have to.
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Old July 07, 2018, 21:37   #37
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Have two rifles with Leupold Fire-Dot 2-7x with Burris Fastfire red dots on top and almost every AR that has a scope has a red dot as well. Also have a couple Mk AR 3-9x and 4-12x with Burris red dots on top. Either a 1x red dot with irons or a scope with red dot nailed along side is almost always my choice. If could justify the cost would have a couple of Elcan Spector's as easy peasy to flip them from 1x to 4x and back as fast as can shoot and are tought as nails. But $2,000 is steep for a 4x max magnification optic.
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Old July 09, 2018, 16:13   #38
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When I started the build or parts assembly because in reality you just buy parts and put a gun together, I asked my gunsmith about parts. My first concerned was I had an upper by Colt with no bolt and carrier. Talking with Jeff who has been in the business for many years I asked about bolt failures. He said he had heard about some but in all his years never seen a failed bolt.

So I bought a nib Palmetto bolt and carrier and so far it's working well. This isn't my go to AR, it just a learning tool and making it better. I have my bug out AR and trust it as much as I can trust anything that will break but doubt in its assigned use it will ever have a problem.

My heavy barrel target AR with a Colt lower and drop in 4.5 trigger runs great and is by God accurate. If I get down to the small calibers for defense it will be a fine performer.

I prefer 30 cal guns for defense in a rifle and 45 for a handgun.

I think my next build will be an AR in 30cal but have to do a study on what works. Sell off an AR and start another with the idea of a light weight 30. Is there such an animal?
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Old July 09, 2018, 23:07   #39
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Was looking through "Assault Rifles of the World" book over the weekend and while looking for something else I came across this. An Air Force experimental carbine. 5.4 lbs with micro suppressor.
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Old July 15, 2018, 11:06   #40
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Bawana Jim, can build a lightweight 300 BO but it's not a long range heavy hitter. Abandoned the 300 BO a few years ago but looking at doing a couple more as dedicated subsonic rifles. Imagine a person could trim a huge amount of weight off an AR 10 in full battle rifle cartridge. Why I have gone 6.8 spc II crazy. Out to 250 yards has 80% of the energy of a 7.62×51 NATO and can be built light and retain low recoil. Figure 6.8 will be my battle rifle of old age and is already wife's and 22 Nosler will be my intermediate range rifle. Now have two 18" fluted Noslers built specifically in fighting trim rather than varmint/long range trim as my others. Thus far have 1,500 M855A1 pull downs in 22 Nosler cases and 2,500 M855 green tips loaded up. With an extra 300+ fps both projectiles are perky compared to 5.56.

Fal762, interesting little Air Force carbine. Of course an integral suppressor with majority under handguard would be quieter, like the XM177 Moderator it's a nifty attempt in the progression of development in fighting rifles. Honestly I can't understand why all U.S. issue M4's don't have a suppressor these days. Some of the new 3D printed suppressors with complex shaped baffle chambers are super light and give same level or better than average reduction of sound signature in the four inch length range and are full auto rated. A 13.7" barrel with a four inch can that resulted in hearing safe fighting rifle would be plenty accurate and be of major benefit tactically as well as saving combat troops a lot of hearing damage.

Believe we have the technology to use say a 12.5" polygonal rifling CHF barrel and build a integral suppressor around it that would be under 16" long, quiet and accurate for most combat needs at reasonable price with current technology. Build it around the new proposed polymer cased 6.8 round that will reduce weight of ammo by 30% throw all the current SAPI plates from body armor on the scrap pile and replace with Dyneema and average troopers combat load would drop twenty pounds.

It's all, out there, been tested, can even buy most on civilian market (till Ruger purchased ARX polymer cases were already in production and coming on civilian market) and there is no reason our troops should be using equipment that doesn't even measure up to my backup gear. All someone has to do is give it the thumbs up and would be in troops hands before next presidential election. Could fund much of it surplussing current ammo and parts on civilian market.
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Old August 02, 2018, 18:32   #41
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Been updating my firearms serial number list making sure all of this year's builds were on it along with more recent as recoup from last outpatient along with reading and shooting rimfire. While at it decided to start another version which groups rifles by type and caliber to help in not repeating so many of the same builds rather than my list where have been adding guns in rifle, handgun and shotgun columns as purchased. Pretty big chore but didn't realize how many 5.56 vs 6.8 and how many 7.62 NATO battle rifles have accumulated. Also grouped Ruger Mini 14's together with subgroups for Ranch Rifles, Standard Minis, GB factory folders and 6.8 Mini 14's.

As went through all the lists and notes in other files on individual rifles and their performance at range spent some time at vaults and pulled a few of interest trying to decide if SHTF and had to walk out the door with what I could carry never to return, which rifle would I carry? Narrowed it down to a 5.56 build on 13.7" Noveske barrel with pinned 5.56 dedicated suppressor and a 18" 5.56 Noveske barrel with AAC 51T Ratchet Mount suppressor adapter build. Due to my respect for 6.8 pulled a build with 13.7" Noveske 6.8 barrel with pinned suppressor and another build on 18" Noveske 6.8 barrel with AAC 51T Ratchet Mount suppressor adapter. Both 13.7" builds had 1-6x scopes with a red dot, both 18" builds were near Mk 12 Mod 1 clones and had 4-12x scopes with red dot.

All the poodle shooters have purchased, traded for and built and the four I chose to go in final selection for "the one" rifle all had Noveske barrels, binary triggers and either Vortex 1-6x or Leupold 4-12x optics with Burris Fastfire red dots. Much as I like my hard hitting 6.8's if walking out the door with only one rifle knowing once ammo load out carried with me was exhausted would have to resupply off bodies or scrounging put the pair of 5.56 at the top of the poodle shooter chain.

Went through my battle rifles sifting FAL's, L1a1's, HK 91/G3's, CETME's AR 10's, M1a's, etc and finally had a 7.62 M1a National Match with Douglas air gauged trigger and Leupold 4.5-14x with Horus range finding reticle as one choice. Second battle rifle choice was another Springfield and the newest addition to the fleet, a M1a Loaded in 6.5 Creedmore with Vortex 6-24x and red dot that are placeholders till can put the cash into another Vortex 5-25x. Again looking and pondering both rifles believe it would have to be the 7.62 due to how much 7.62/308 ammo people have in dash of pickup trucks, junk drawer in kitchen, or taken off the folks that didn't survive as long as I did.

Hefted the battle rifle and the 5.56 Noveske builds and it was obvious at 55 with aching back the most likely rifle to leave the house would be the 13.7" 5.56 suppressed Noveske if leaving never to return. Then looked at my lightest rifle armor kit set up for 5.56, two spare bandoleers of ammo on top of what the armor kit carries, handgun and ammo, backpack of gear with water filter and the bare necessities and dammit if I didn't have to realize again whatever happens, the old man is sitting it out at home. Will load all the stinking magazines for all the stinking rifles, put on my lightest Level 4 rifle kit and slug it out with all comers till they tire of climbing over rotting bodies just to be shot at or kill my old broken down arse.

Made me think of the picture posted in the Moderator thread this morning of the kid in full kit ready for a walkabout in Vietnam and if it were I in that position at current age and physical condition would likely have more VC dying from laughter at the old man huffing and puffing all mucked up in a rice paddy than would kill with my finely honed operator skills. Going to have to do majority of my fighting from a comfortable chair as after sitting in hard backed chairs waiting on wife at doctors offices today my back hurts double. Have two Leadsled's here at home plus one at work and may need more at home so each chair at each shooting position has one in case have to use a large rifle that hurts my back and neck to shoot now. Getting old isn't very graceful, eh?
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Old August 02, 2018, 21:14   #42
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I have a firearm list too. Actually, I have a couple of them.

A master, which has them all. Broken down into Rifle, Shotgun, Handgun, NFA.

There are many that I have bought over the years and were inherited do not have serial numbers. (Pre 68). But they are on the list nonetheless and with a photo just in case I had to make a claim with the insurance.

Each of my 3 sons have their own lists of what I want them to have someday when I'm gone.

While I don't have any big hurry in any of this, I would like to handle this myself prior to that time if given the opportunity and time to do so.

And I have already given a few of the guns out already when they moved out on their own and started their own families. Because that's just what Dads' do around here in the mountains.
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Old August 03, 2018, 05:31   #43
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Have already given away most of my Randall knife collection along with other customs. Every relative or child of friend that deploys to middle east send with a Randall knife, usually a Model 15 Airman. Had all the varients of that knife and was stunned when gave last ine away and then had to buy a couple more on secondary market for combat gifts. Have already given away the guns passed down to me by my dad to family members and many rifles have tags as to who they go to when time comes.

Have letter in primary vault how to dispose of rest as if wife survives me at least 1/2 will be sold to give her extra money to pay bills but many will be passed along. I give away at least three or four AR builds per year and been doing so for some time. Usually it's family and returning folks that gave a knife when deployed to middle east, like to give them an AR when get home and muster out. Have another issue needing a new vault again so if not for gifting would be a nightmare around here.
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Old August 07, 2018, 18:12   #44
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Just saw this video from TFB on what the manufacturer claims is the lightest PRODUCTION AR on the market. 3.65 lbs with optic.
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...kly+Newsletter

They're going to try to sell a muzzle device ala Sig also.
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Old August 22, 2018, 22:25   #45
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Always been a heavy rifle guy (30cal) liked them for less punishment during protracted range sessions as that was my focus. Then got into AR's and could not believe how much I liked a 7# carbine in 5.56. Wow my eyes were opened. But before that build I had put a Rock River half quad forearm on a delton heavy profile 16" barrel and when I shouldered it first time I knew it was wrong. Really wrong. Not sure what I was thinking. Man that half quad is a friggin boat anchor chunk of metal! I'll sell it cheap if anyone wants it.
I am not sure if I need less than 7# in 5.56 as that sure feels pretty handy to me in all respects but my interest has been stoked....might get me into trouble like that 45-70 thread almost did.
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Old October 02, 2018, 21:14   #46
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Today finished a build on a 12.5" ARP 6.8 spc II 1:11 5R barrel mounted in a Spikes upper purchased as a blem from Gorilla Machining as wanted to see how the upper came through Q.C. following lapping, how bolt carrier traveled through uppers bolt run and other accessory parts fit. The Spikes "blem" upper was a fine upper that was totally in spec and ran perfectly off the build bench. Last thing I need is another jumbo AR pistol but doing an inventory of parts locker found 19 5.56 barrels and six 6.8 barrels not including odd ball cartridges such as 22 Nosler, 458 SOCOM and a few wildcats. Discovered about 60 uppers and even more lowers so started building. Have enough triggers, bolt carrier groups, forearms, furniture and small parts to do another eight or ten builds without buying so much as a roll pin.







Used a Colt M16 bolt carrier with an LWRCI "lobster tail" dual spring ejector and milspec charging handle. May add an extended latch but last pistol did that the latch seemed to get in the way but was a tiny pistol so may just swap the two around. Put a surplus USMC rear BUIS sight with cheap Chinese front site on a Mentium USA (translates as fine China) got in a junk box trade as holes in handguard did not line up with holes in barrel nut no matter how many shims or combination of shims used. Used a $34 clearance sale Ergo adjustable gas block to tune the gas rather than burn my last piston drive kit on a 12.5" AR. Had to open up a couple and slot two more to make the $5 free float handguard work. On back of optics shelf found an original Vortex Strikefire 1 red dot still sealed in original box which completed the upper except for the obligatory AAC 51T Ratchet Mount suppressor adapter.

Used a Mag Tactical billet magnesium lower receiver with a KAC Shockwave pistol buffer kit and brace. Used generic parts for the lower parts group except a Colt Competition plated trigger kit that I honed, squared and swapped in a JP 3.5 Enhanced Reliability Spring Kit which gave me a 3.25 pound single stage trigger along with trigger stop to reduce travel and has virtually no creep. Have 3.25 pound triggers on most of my carry 1911's so same pull on my fighting pistols and rifles works out well. Only Shockwave pistol brace in stock that I could find was FDE so pulled an Ergo FDE pistol grip with storage compartment. Then threw on a FAB Defense magwell funnel in FDE for some more color and Cerakoted the barrel before assembled the upper.

A black AR with FDE furniture looks odd to me but figure it's a color combo never done and may decide to wrap it with a graphics package some day. Laser bore sighted it at 50 feet in shop then figured it was time for live ammo after a final safety and function test. Loaded ten rounds and had gas set happy using a box of Federal factory ammo had laying close at hand by fourth round and fifth verified it and the . Set up my rifle rest across tool box of truck and using the 1x red dot fI red a five shot 25 yard group with four rounds in a ragged hole and fifth was sitting 1/4" outside of the group so called it operator error and further confirmed gas was set conservatively so the anemic factory ammo cycled but cycled softly.

Brought it home, snapped on an AAC 762SDN multicaliber suppressor, loaded ten rounds of my hot 90 grain TNT varmint loads and sent them down range into a hand sized group at 75 yards off-hand. Sure if put a scope on it, extend the brace about four inches for more comfortable length of pull will group 1 MOA as do my other 12.5" ARP builds but this was an impulse build to help kick start a build binge and see if I can knock a dent in the parts lockers and safe inventory. Didn't even count spare barrels and parts have put back at home. This was the gun I just finished last week giving me two builds in a week and about as diametrically opposed to each other as possible. A 12.5" 6.8 vs a 24" White Oak Armament profiled Kreiger air gauged 5.56 Wylde heavy barrel build.





Already have a 13.7" Noveske 6.8 barrel and Noveske Flaming Pig pulled that when pinned will be 16.015" from bolt face to end of flash can. It's like they engineered the two to become the longest barrel with best muzzle device at projecting sound and muzzle blast away from the operator. Have pulled a SIG upper and will get it going Thursday with a Sunday after church or Monday completion goal as have a SWAT Firearms matched billet receiver set and a 20" ARP 22 Nosler tube pulled to follow the Noveske build. Believe this brings me to 16 6.8 builds and 24 5.56 builds not counting bargain box and free parts sub $200 and sub $100 lightly used parts builds from doing upgrades and owners of guns abandoning their OEM parts usually with under 100 rounds and some straight off the rack at LGS and to the smith corner for upgrades. Don't understand why so many people don't want their parts. My Pony AR's are not included in the count, only builds that would be willing to say it's my build on parts I selected and either paid heavy for or purchased at super bargains. Now up to three 22 Nosler builds and why want to do number four plus a pair of 458 SOCOM's with two more waiting on Form 4's.

Also doesn't count the few have traded off to cover parts orders or to swap for a more desirable rifle when gun shop owner was not letting me out the door with a build because wanted for himself. Also doesn't count builds for the shop since became an 07 or top ends do for free for anyone that asks and a pile of old Olys that were torn apart, reconfigured and made to shoot reliably and true then sold off during panics like Bush Ban and Sandy Hook which is what Olys and $100 to $200 parts rifles are for, turning into a 5x to 10x profit. Scored another 40 rifle vault so figure it's time for a building spree as been slow on builds due to lack of vault space to store them. Receivers, binary/premium triggers and BCG's in office safes, barrels in steel lockers with furniture and look for another safe when run out of room. It's a tough like but a 401k get to play with is much more fun than a monthly statement.
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Old October 04, 2018, 16:02   #47
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The next build on the vice. 13.7" Noveske 6.8 spc II with Noveske Flaming Pig pinned for 16" OAL and MGI adjustable gas tube. This is going to be another fun gun with binary trigger and flash can instead of suppressor to work in tight areas or open terrain effectively.


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