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Old August 02, 2018, 07:36   #1
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How do you guys determine value/price?

What do you guys do to determine the current market value to price a C&R gun for sale?


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Old August 02, 2018, 07:49   #2
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Old August 02, 2018, 08:28   #3
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Factors would include "going " prices at the moment from other sites, originality/completeness of weapon, re-finish, repairs, or modifications done by an arsenal which add to the uniqueness of weapon. As opposed to mods done by Mr. Bubba. Provenance if weapon has a documented history, to connect it to a place or battle, or even to a noteworthy individual. Many guns have "stories" but no proof to validate it, hence, buy the gun and not the story. The value on anything becomes negotiable between buyer and seller.
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Old August 02, 2018, 08:51   #4
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Personally as a buyer I place a great deal of weight on condition, next is desirability. An example would be a Colt Police .38 vs a 9mm cal. Luger.
The .38 Colt is nice and if in good shape might bring $350.00 where as the Luger might bring thousands from 2 to 3, even higher depending on model, year and where made and so on. Getting into Lugers can become very expensive specially if you donít know what your doing, just a word of note here.
What ever the market will bare is the bottom line and that depends on the buyers desire for a particular piece. For an example of a Finn m39 sneak I bought I probably paid too much, how ever, it was in excellent condition, the seller was a long time well known Files member and I was in the market for one. I purchased a NOS stock from another member and I now had a near mint rifle that shoots better than I can. What value I put on it is one thing but what another might be willing to pay is another.
Research Gun Broker and other such sites, Guns America is an other. At the moment I have no desire for anything so my willingness to caugh up what someone wants for a piece is pretty low. That can change though depending on what an item might be.
I like different, older in excellent condition items so I fit into a specific group of buyers so take this all for what itís worth.
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Old August 02, 2018, 09:10   #5
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Surplus rifles and pistols/revolvers I bought in the 1980's/90's for a few bucks have noticeably appreciated in value.


An example would be a couple M1 carbines purchased in the late 1980's for $169 each...well used and import stamped...but you cannot find an M1 carbine for less than $600 to $800 these days in any condition.


P08 Lugers in modern times have always been rather expensive. I bought a couple Century imports in the 1990's a somewhat rough one for $325 and a better but mismatched one for $350. Value for those would seem to be approx. $700 these days but they sell much higher than that.


Browning/FN Hi Powers and clones are the rage right now....A used FEG I bought way back for like $150 sell for $400 or so on Gunbroker….A genuine early style FN 'Buenos Aries' police marked one that I thought I paid too much for in the day has at least doubled in value.

K98k Mauser rifles have gone stooped high in value! I've got a couple genuine Germans I paid like $95 for and now they sell for over $1000!


I don't usually sell guns I buy...but as far as value the auction sites will be your best indicator of value...ones that are priced too high will re-list time after time. Bargains are rare at the online auctions but will be indicator or wht things actually sell for
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Old August 02, 2018, 12:09   #6
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I'm well known for being rather meh' on using Gun Joker as any sort of a barometer of valuation. Best use of it is to search closed auctions and take a median of selling price.

Problem is, some thing do sell well under market value there
the typical price that a Winchester Lee .236 actually sells it is often half of what most are listed at. Sporting models are roughly 800 bone guns at best yet most clowns list them at $1500+
I have snagged a couple under $500 on GB

This kind of speculation is just thick on GB...there are C&R guns that have floated there for literally years.
Then there are the guys who buy on one auction and relist it before it's even in their hands with a $500+ markup
Now, I do buy antique arms there rather regularly then resell them to vendors I know at a decent markup, so yeah there are bargains to be had

There's another thing to consider
big difference between online markets and shows
big difference in show prices regionally as well depending on the particular item as well.

I have ended up in just epic arguments online over this with folks who plumb simple don't understand these markets.

I'll throw out a few examples:

Civilian Percussion long guns tend to be depressed along the East Coast by the simple virtue that those areas were settled very early and there remains a crap ton of them out there still.
Much of the upper midwest didn't get homesteaded until up into the 1880s

Cowboy guns same deal, most of those used to be all well east of the Mississippi. Guys from MN, IA, the Dakotas, etc would buy old Winchesters & Colts out east and sell them back here at a 100%+ mark up
Conversely Civil war items can be depressed here but sell for sizable profit on the east coast.

Ton of things work this way
used to be Sextants and Ships glasses, compass sets, etc all around antique shops in Duluth MN. Buyers from New England bought most of that up to sell as nautical antiques. I can still pick up antique tack and saddles in MN & WI that I can sell easily at a 300%+ markup in Montana
Picked up a stack of hand woven Navaho blankets a few years ago here at an Estate sale @ ten buck each...sold them to a vendor in AZ for $300 to $600 apiece.
but I digress...

My point is market value is situational upon venue and location.

yeah K98s have gone full idiot online
I still run into them at shows for $300+
I let a buddy snag them all up, he vends them online

P08's are stupid money too online
I just passed on a very nice Finnish rig with original holster for $900, passed that on to another buddy who snapped it up and doubled his money online
since we gave up the FFL we just don't do that anymore, my plate is plenty full of other things.

Some of the current numbers on things are rather retarded
take Mosin Nagants
sorry, I have a very difficult time seeing the $$$'s they get advertised at currently. They only became popular because they were dirt cheap as was the ammo. To me, collecting MNs is akin to collecting HiPonts
the again, some used to feel the same way regarding miltary Rolling Blocks
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Old August 02, 2018, 12:49   #7
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I'm well known for being rather meh' on using Gun Joker as any sort of a barometer of valuation. Best use of it is to search closed auctions and take a median of selling price.
I agree there is a lot of stuff selling for a price that nobody is buying.

When I sell misc stuff on Ebay, I search for sold items to get an idea of acceptable price. I've searched the marketplace here for sold items too (Please leave your prices up on marketplace threads after sales complete. Thank you!), but I don't think you can do that with Gunbroker, can you?
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Old August 02, 2018, 13:52   #8
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I agree there is a lot of stuff selling for a price that nobody is buying.

When I sell misc stuff on Ebay, I search for sold items to get an idea of acceptable price. I've searched the marketplace here for sold items too (Please leave your prices up on marketplace threads after sales complete. Thank you!), but I don't think you can do that with Gunbroker, can you?
you at least used to be able to on GB, they changed a bunch of shit up on searches this spring so can't say right now. Again, I never use the internet to find market value. It's really not all that valid for many reason, some of which I covered.

GB used to have a tight and decent search engine
these days I input rolling block I get pages of gas blocks for ARs and such
yeah they broadened parameters to expose more listings under search shitting the bed with guys like me.
I'm guessing they hired some idiot consulting firm and in doing so are now losing major money by implimenting grocery store marketing tactics

As far as using File pricing
that depends too
understand this is just a very narrow slice of the market and as such we have folks here willing to pay nutty money on certain items
example:

Have one or two L2 NOS bbls with gas blocks installed that were stored in a basement with the breech sitting on the damn slab...chambers/threads are a bit ate up, blocks are perfect. Guys here are willing to droll out big money for one of those blocks. At a show they would be seen as tent stakes.
wouldn't fare much better on GB on a penny auction
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Old August 02, 2018, 14:10   #9
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What do you guys do to determine the current market value
The internet is a wonderful tool. Research the falfiles MP, Gonebroker (past sales, not asking prices), subguns, or dozens of other legitimate marketplaces and you will find a good starting point for negotiation.

The actual "current market value" however is determined when a willing buyer and a willing seller make a deal at that particular moment, regardless of any past sales. That is the "current market value".

No more. No less.
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Old August 03, 2018, 07:38   #10
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I think my problem is I usually sell stuff too cheaply. So many times I'll sell something and folks will PM me and say I could have gotten much more money.

I'm glad to see when a real collector/shooter who really appreciates something gets it for a price they are happy with, but I hate to get screwed too. I've had a couple guys flip guns I've sold to them right on the same marketplace. That's a d!ck move IMO, when I'm just trying to cut a fellow collector and forum member a fair deal.
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Old August 03, 2018, 10:03   #11
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Selling prices are all over the place. A one week auction isn't indicative of market price, it's just as much an indicator of the season and who is busy at work.

I watch several specific guns/parts and there is rhyme or reason to account for a 200% difference in selling prices over 3-4 month period.

Beyond that, there are cycles. FAL optics are down, for a few years now. MG34 kits are down 20% or more for the last two months, while cut receivers are back up to normal (after dropping 70%). BREN kits are the steal now on GB, going for $500.
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Old August 04, 2018, 14:07   #12
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Selling prices are all over the place. A one week auction isn't indicative of market price, it's just as much an indicator of the season and who is busy at work.

I watch several specific guns/parts and there is rhyme or reason to account for a 200% difference in selling prices over 3-4 month period.

Beyond that, there are cycles. FAL optics are down, for a few years now. MG34 kits are down 20% or more for the last two months, while cut receivers are back up to normal (after dropping 70%). BREN kits are the steal now on GB, going for $500.
BREN kits are down because there is a tidal wave of craptastick torch cuts on the market.
Old school saw or plasma cuts are still up over a grand.

Same deal with RPD kits
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Old August 04, 2018, 15:19   #13
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I use Manowarís Military Gun Values at hungariae.com as a guide (as a buyer).
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Old August 04, 2018, 18:36   #14
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I think my problem is I usually sell stuff too cheaply. So many times I'll sell something and folks will PM me and say I could have gotten much more money.

I'm glad to see when a real collector/shooter who really appreciates something gets it for a price they are happy with, but I hate to get screwed too. I've had a couple guys flip guns I've sold to them right on the same marketplace. That's a d!ck move IMO, when I'm just trying to cut a fellow collector and forum member a fair deal.
yeah' I don't do the forum flip thing to sellers. If I buy something to resell it's not going to get relisted there a few days later if ever.
Flip side
Other vendors who regularly buy from me at shows sometimes mark things up 50 to 100% within minutes post purchase but that's just the business I'm in
Me ?
Most of what I buy at shows ends up under the tables anyways

again markets are extremely regional
here's another example for you:

Years ago Federal Arms in Fridley MN was the main, maybe only importer of the Albanian SKS variant and they blew them out cheaply back in the 90s. SKS guys see these as extremely UBER Rare things.
Thing is though in the upper midwest there are quite a few of them, $300+ guns that elsewhere folks see as $800+ guns

It's another case of a situational marketplace
heck nice surplus Chinese SKS guns are still $250+ guns here due to the deluge that were dumped in Minnesota back in the 80s/90s
I do try to educate sellers on where to get top $$$s on these things and these days that's online

Same deal with FALs, older Century guns on import receivers still turn up in the $500+ range in this region
Kits, same thing. Besides Federal, Sportsmens Guide started in Fridley MN. Just a pile of now scarce kits were sold locally in-State
anyways buddy I get a steady ebb and flow of this due to where I am and running multiple tables of parts bins.

Frankly most guys need a Rabbi to consult on these matters of valuation. A man who is disinterested in profiteering on general gun sales. That's kind of my accorded position at shows, the guy other vendors bring folks to to ID and price some odd ball item.
I shoot the possible retail explaining that they are on the wrong side of the tables to expect that valuation then tell them in my opinion what is a fair selling price which is usually just over half of the possible retail. Most folks get it and make the sale to the other vendor after learning they will need to go online with auctions, etc.

anyways at present you have two major markets
those who are online
those who are not and that one is heavily sub divided by region
This too will in time change as the folks who don't use the Web age out and pass on.
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Old August 04, 2018, 23:18   #15
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For actual collector grade stuff, I would compare to known good places that deal in it and know what they're doing.

For stuff from the more recent waves of imports, if it's reasonable and I like it and want it right then, I will get it.
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Old August 05, 2018, 06:09   #16
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Recent wave of imports??? Seems like all the surplus stuff has been imported and sold already. Even the millions of Mosin Nagants seem to have dried up.
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Old August 06, 2018, 12:42   #17
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One of the frustrating things for sellers is the phenomenon that rarity does not necessarily increase value. Or desirability. Or demand. And vice versa. Two examples:

M1 Garand. More than 5,000,000 made and even the most humble example can bring several hundred dollars.

Early Tikka (Finnish) M1891 Mosin Nagant. Only about 3,000 made but not worth more than humble Garand cited above.

To the OP: Your question more likely to be answered if specific information revealed pertaining to each item.

Best wishes. Dave
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Old August 06, 2018, 12:58   #18
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One of the frustrating things for sellers is the phenomenon that rarity does not necessarily increase value. Or desirability. Or demand. And vice versa. Two examples:

M1 Garand. More than 5,000,000 made and even the most humble example can bring several hundred dollars.

Early Tikka (Finnish) M1891 Mosin Nagant. Only about 3,000 made but not worth more than humble Garand cited above.

To the OP: Your question more likely to be answered if specific information revealed pertaining to each item.

Best wishes. Dave
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Old August 07, 2018, 06:30   #19
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To the OP: Your question more likely to be answered if specific information revealed pertaining to each item.
That's the thing and why I asked, I've got about 12 different guns that I want to sell online and I don't have a good understanding of the current value of each except to search the marketplace forums here, AKfiles, etc and on Gunbroker (the latter which often seems to exist in a separate reality). The problem is, I'm not finding all the guns in my searches (for examples an Ishapore No.1 Mk III, a Czech Vz24, an S&W 38/200 Brit contract revolver, you don't see these sold often on the forums).

I guess I'll just have make a post in the appropriate forums and ask value opinions on a case by case basis.

Thanks all for the advice.
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Old August 07, 2018, 12:51   #20
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That's the thing and why I asked, I've got about 12 different guns that I want to sell online and I don't have a good understanding of the current value of each except to search the marketplace forums here, AKfiles, etc and on Gunbroker (the latter which often seems to exist in a separate reality). The problem is, I'm not finding all the guns in my searches (for examples an Ishapore No.1 Mk III, a Czech Vz24, an S&W 38/200 Brit contract revolver, you don't see these sold often on the forums).

I guess I'll just have make a post in the appropriate forums and ask value opinions on a case by case basis.

Thanks all for the advice.
Try Gunboards, seems to be the go to place for milsurp. Too many variables when it comes to milsurp firearms.
With that said, I'd be interested and I'm not a reseller.....
I'd offer a fair price on what I do not already own.
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Old August 08, 2018, 20:30   #21
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That's the thing and why I asked, I've got about 12 different guns that I want to sell online and I don't have a good understanding of the current value of each except to search the marketplace forums here, AKfiles, etc and on Gunbroker (the latter which often seems to exist in a separate reality). The problem is, I'm not finding all the guns in my searches (for examples an Ishapore No.1 Mk III, a Czech Vz24, an S&W 38/200 Brit contract revolver, you don't see these sold often on the forums).

I guess I'll just have make a post in the appropriate forums and ask value opinions on a case by case basis.

Thanks all for the advice.
All three vary wildly

for example if the Webley is a "Commando" with no spur on the hammer the value drops quite a bit. Dad swapped into four Webley's, no one want's the Commando

Same with VZs
straight or turned down bolt
swivel positions
real early guns were for the Polock Cavalry, worth a premium
others were export, worth quite a bit less

Hindi SMLEs are pretty inexpensive
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Old August 09, 2018, 08:44   #22
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Try Gunboards, seems to be the go to place for milsurp. Too many variables when it comes to milsurp firearms.
With that said, I'd be interested and I'm not a reseller.....
I'd offer a fair price on what I do not already own.
+1 for Gunboards. Wealth of information and potential market over there.
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Old August 10, 2018, 06:00   #23
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for example if the Webley is a "Commando" with no spur on the hammer the value drops quite a bit. Dad swapped into four Webley's, no one want's the Commando
Not Webley. Smith & Wesson. Basically a 5" barreled M&P chambered in 38/200 (38 S&W NOT Special) for WWII British military contract.

But to your point, yes unfortunately nothing I'm selling is going to be especially valuable, but nonetheless I need some project money and also do need the gunsafe space.

Thanks again guys and I'll peruse Gunboards for more info.
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Old August 14, 2018, 15:56   #24
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best price realised by listing them all on gunbroker in a 14 day no reserve penny start sale, with good pictures, and title including what they are and the words "penny start".

searching closed auctions with gun type and "no reserve" characteristic selected as a variable will show recent closed values.
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Old August 14, 2018, 19:12   #25
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...searching closed auctions with gun type and "no reserve" characteristic selected as a variable will show recent closed values.
How are you guys filtering by "closed" or "sold" on Gunbroker? I'm not seeing that option.
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Old August 14, 2018, 19:37   #26
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Next to search at the top of the page is advanced. Click on that and then click completed items. I then select past 90 days and go. You will see everything that matches your search, bids received and final price. Most of what you see is stuff that did not sell and is just relisted over and over again at some stupid price. You can tell what did actually sell and for how much though.
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Old August 15, 2018, 08:27   #27
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Thanks Gazz. I'll play with that.
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Old August 15, 2018, 11:53   #28
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If all else fails and you pay over market price for your new firearm, just remember this axiom:

"You can never pay too much for a gun; you only paid it too early"

[at least that is what I tell myself]
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Old August 15, 2018, 19:20   #29
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I'll be sure to mention that to the guys who buy the stuff I'm selling.
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