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Old September 05, 2018, 14:39   #1
raubvogel
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Bondarms Derringer

Before you say this post is off-topic, allow me to tie in to revolvers in good time.

I just received an email about a 4" barrel 2 round .357 derringer made by Bond Arms in .357, model PT2A. For $677. Correct me if I am wrong but I can get 4" barrel revolvers in that caliber from decent manufacturers for less than that; and as a bonus they tend to come with a way to carry 4 extra rounds free of charge.

The concealability argument does not hold water: I have seen 9mm Derringers and they are not particularly small. IMHO something on the lines of a P238 or G43 are probably as wide and about the same length.

And cheaper. And we are not even talking about the Taurus PT111s and SCYYs and other small 9mm double stackers.

So, explain this to this curious bloke who did not grew up watching cowboy movies: what is the point of these derringers?
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Old September 05, 2018, 15:17   #2
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IMHO there isn't any point to a derringer these days. They are nothing but novelty firearms. Two shots that may hit a pie plate at seven yards if the barrels have been properly regulated. But the makers don't go to the trouble of doing this.

I'll make do with my S&W M642 Airweight .38 Special. Five rounds and I can actually hit a three inch target center at ten yards with all rounds. But there will always be those who just have to day dream that they are the actor Richard Boone playing Paladin in the old TV western "Have Gun Will Travel".

And so it goes.


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Old September 05, 2018, 16:20   #3
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IMHO, nothing other than the novelty of it being a Derringer.

I don't own one. For $400, I bought a compact Glock.
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Old September 05, 2018, 17:05   #4
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The Derringer came before the revolver, and was a huge leap ahead of a flintlock handgun but are really just a novelty now. The Bond guns are the Cadillac of the genre, and are cool in their own way.
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Old September 06, 2018, 11:26   #5
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Of all the derringers I have seen, the Bond Arms pistols are the most reliable, and the most expensive. And their size is such that they are not that bad in shooting them.

But for the money they want, you can get several other models of modern day pistols with higher capacity and similar ammo. If you need a truly small pocket pistol, I would get one of the North American Arms revolvers in 22WMR. They are plenty accurate, have decent power to put down a wounded deer (I have seen this) and fit in most every pocket out there.




https://northamericanarms.com/produc...ms/22-magnums/
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Old September 06, 2018, 12:28   #6
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A novelty for sure but I have the confess that I own one. 4" barrels chambered in .410/44 LC. With the home defense combo disc/pellet load in .410 it is formidable at 7 yards. For 2 shots anyway
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Old September 06, 2018, 14:21   #7
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I guess they might also be appropriate for states that frown upon handguns with magazines of any size. "But officer, I had only *two* rounds!'
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It's been my experience that all you really need to harvest a deer is a car. They come right through the windshield just fine. 357ross
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Old September 06, 2018, 18:13   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tac-40 View Post
Of all the derringers I have seen, the Bond Arms pistols are the most reliable, and the most expensive. And their size is such that they are not that bad in shooting them.

But for the money they want, you can get several other models of modern day pistols with higher capacity and similar ammo. If you need a truly small pocket pistol, I would get one of the North American Arms revolvers in 22WMR. They are plenty accurate, have decent power to put down a wounded deer (I have seen this) and fit in most every pocket out there.




https://northamericanarms.com/produc...ms/22-magnums/
That's likely my next purchase.
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Old September 06, 2018, 18:56   #9
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My two cents:

Derringers have no superior application for any purpose whatsoever in the 21st century, except for the sake of novelty, or old-west style shooting contests.

The quality of manufacture of the Freedom Arms mini-revolvers is impressive. I have about as much use for a mini-revolver as I do a derringer.

Smith and Wesson Bodyguard .380 also fits in most any pocket, and 11 inches penetration, expansion to .46 caliber, and first shot as fast as you can get your finger on the trigger. Usually costs less than $300. Doesn't rust if you sweat on it.

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Old September 06, 2018, 19:26   #10
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Originally Posted by tac-40 View Post
I would get one of the North American Arms revolvers in 22WMR. They are plenty accurate, have decent power to put down a wounded deer (I have seen this) and fit in most every pocket out there.




https://northamericanarms.com/produc...ms/22-magnums/
A long time ago in another part of the world, a friend of mine carried one very much like that NAA.
Of the several guns he owned, he said that diminutive revolver was the only one that has seen 'combat'. Apparently it was convenient enough to carry just about everywhere and it was the one gun he had with him when an urchin decided to try a bit of strong-arm robbery. My friend did say that he fired it in the encounter, though he did not report making a hit.
Evidently it was enough convince Scruffy to seek treasure elsewhere.
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Old September 06, 2018, 19:27   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raubvogel View Post
what is the point of these derringers?
Back in the '80s our local gun club did an annual "cowboy" match. Lever action long range rifle stages, bowling pin matches with single action revolvers, etc. They were a blast!

One of the stages was a poker table scenario where you sat in a chair and held a derringer under a table (you could not see the gun) and try to hit a target about 10' away. Other than that bit of fun??????

Definitely no point for me at $677.....
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Old September 06, 2018, 20:29   #12
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Originally Posted by Invictus77 View Post
One of the stages was a poker table scenario where you sat in a chair and held a derringer under a table (you could not see the gun) and try to hit a target about 10' away. Other than that bit of fun??????

Definitely no point for me at $677.....
Who plays poker from 10' away??
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Old September 06, 2018, 21:51   #13
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Evidently it was enough convince Scruffy to seek treasure elsewhere.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Invictus77 View Post
Definitely no point for me at $677.....
My point exactly. I had seen a while ago those NAA revolvers go for $200; if I had found one for below $150, used or not, I would consider for the novelty/amusement factor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildcat View Post
Who plays poker from 10' away??
If your poker partners are Butterfly-style Olympic swimmers or that Chinese basketball player...
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All I'm really asking for here is a knife that will not jam and a unicorn that doesn't need sharpening. Will_Power
It's been my experience that all you really need to harvest a deer is a car. They come right through the windshield just fine. 357ross
That poop is priceless. MFC
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Old September 07, 2018, 20:11   #14
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Ah, the dreaded "what's it for" question. Well if you have to ask you obviously don't get it. Got to say though, I have no use for an uber expensive derringer either. I do have three of the old High Standard derringers, two in .22 Mag and a .22 LR. Just cause I think they are cool and came across them at a fair price and had money in my pocket at the time. Kind of like how I bought a lot of my stuff. Also have one of the .22 Mag NAA little blasters. I have actually carried it and one of the High Standard .22 Mags on occasion. I don't think I have over $175 in any of them.
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Old September 07, 2018, 20:39   #15
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That's likely my next purchase.
Don't.

I pick them up when I find them under $200, play with them a while and then either someone wants it more than me, or I remember how stupid and useless they are.

It's a toy.

It's a rimfire.


It's impossible to shoot rapidly one handed.

They make\made a centerfield version of the DA high standard derringer.
Only one that MIGHT be worth having. (In very limited, unimpressive circumstances.)
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Old September 08, 2018, 14:14   #16
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A friend carries one loaded with .410 shot shells around his place for snakes.
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Old September 08, 2018, 20:09   #17
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Had a couple derringers and carried one when into the depths of the city.
Both made by DAVIS (gone now) and chambered for 38 spl. 3" barrel.
Actually built pretty good and back then $120 with wood handles !
Cocking it was a near two handed feat. Not anygood for more than 10-15ft,
if you aim for lower abdomen, you'll probably shoot em in the heart.
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I can not imagine shooting one in .357 mag !

Walther PPS M2 on sale $299 @ gun buyer
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Old September 09, 2018, 01:18   #18
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So a little story about the North American guns. Dealer sold one to a woman brand new in the box and instructed her how to load and fire it. If you carry one the hammer fits in a safety notch cut in the cylinder between chambers. If you don't put the hammer in the notch the gun can go off if the hammer is hit.

Woman and her husband were in a Micky d getting food and the mini revolver fell out of her purse and hit the hammer on the floor. Round hit her husband right in the butt cheek and she tried a suit against the dealer but it failed because it was handled by North American Arms.

I carried a 22 lr in it for a number of years but found I had to shoot it a lot to get the ammo changed out. If I didn't shoot it on a regular basis the moisture in my pants pocket corrupted the 22 shells and only three out of five would fire. If I replaced the ammo regularly then the gun always fired. Sweat and humidity for too long.

Traveling and working long hours it was a good gun in the pocket. Heavy labor wouldn't allow a bigger gun.

Edited to add, I tried a Bond in 45 Colt 410 and thought it was way too heavy until I shot it. Just couldn't see carrying a 24 ounce 2 shot when I could add five ounces and carry a lightweight 1911
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Old September 09, 2018, 10:53   #19
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I always had a desire for a Derringer since younger days watching Wild West programs. So I satisfied the urge a bought one. Soon discovered how crude the handling was. Trigger had this bizarre geometry that ensured heavy release. Grip was short and thick and got lost in my hand.
Was a very nice piece of work, though. Those Texas ranger grips made for nice looking gun. Beautiful eye appeal. Terrible ergonomics made accuracy impossible. Painful to shoot in any serious caliber. So after collecting dust for a while, I sold it and never looked back.
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Old September 11, 2018, 23:36   #20
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Not sure why now but I had two high standard .22 mag derringers at one time. I was never able to print on paper at any range. Kinda scary.
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Old September 16, 2018, 08:54   #21
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Once apon a time, I had one of those HS 22mag derringers.
Only took a single range trip to learn I couldent hit shit with it.
AND it was of paramount importance to make sure you shook it out or opened it with the barrels pointed down,,,cause otherwise the ton of unburnt powder leftover would fall in the breach and jam it up from closing again.....
I moved up to a Jennings 25 and counted myself ahead...
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Old September 16, 2018, 22:04   #22
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My opinion for whatever it's worth:

I seriously dislike "modern" derringer designs which are often very loosely based on the Remington O/Us

The best of that breed were the 4 barrel Remington elliots with the ring trigger.
Most folks today don't understand them as they were designed jointly as both a firearm and blunt force trauma weapon, one of the few true knuckle dusters. Play with one a bit and you can swing that little piece around your finger exposing the sharp edge of the lower rear frame and crack skulls with it. Trust me, they work well. I carried one for a time with new brazilian made ammo when Navy Arms offered it. Anorexic load for sure but it's main purpose was busting heads open if need be.

The COP .357 pistol was retarded. Problem was Treasury used to regard things even like the post Civil War Reids "My Friend" knuckle dusters as potential AOWs
figure that one huh'

The original Remington .41 RF O/U derringers are real easy shooting, the projectile is extremely low impulse, card table guns at best
these things murdered up MANY people including one of our Presidents
Need to remember out of a derringer the MV was just over 400 FPS, yeah you can see the slug in the air if you shoot at say 30 yards and have decent eyes...it's just a bit faster than a Daisy Red Ryder BB gun

Then again, the .44 and .450 Webley short rounds were not a whole lot better yet were considered Man Killers in the 19th century
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