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Old September 08, 2018, 21:53   #1
Bama Steve
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Way past time to right this . . .

Saving money is like being in debt.

The entire system of money is designed to keep you borrowing.

This is fundamentally wrong.

Where do we apply pressure to correct it?
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Old September 08, 2018, 21:57   #2
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Originally Posted by Bama Steve View Post
Saving money is like being in debt.

The entire system of money is designed to keep you borrowing.

This is fundamentally wrong.

Where do we apply pressure to correct it?
Apply it internally:

Pay yourself first.

Keep an emergency fund.

Live below your means.

Pay as you go.
.................................................. ......................

The above is easy to do, so it is also easy not to do.


......................
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Whose life did you make better today ?

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Old September 08, 2018, 22:03   #3
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We live under a debt based system brother your choice to go with the flow or go your own way, as of last week I went the other way and paid everything off - I don't owe anyone anything, pretty good feeling BUT I am missing out on the gains that you can make with leverage, you can also be bankrupted by doing this if the market turns and catches you over extended - happened to one of my best friends in the 08-09 crash, had a few million in leveraged properties - gave it ALL back and it bankrupted him.
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Old September 08, 2018, 22:06   #4
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Originally Posted by Bama Steve View Post
Saving money is like being in debt.

The entire system of money is designed to keep you borrowing.

This is fundamentally wrong.

Where do we apply pressure to correct it?
Bubba has it right when he says inflation kills savings. He is smart enough to invest into things he trust. I am too cynical to invest, last time I put money up I lost $4,000 in one quarter and the investment place said it was the safest place to put money.

I think as the economy grows there will be a money shortage and savings may pay a decent return again. Years ago I got 8% out of the money market but haven't seen that in decades. Making money for me these days is saving money in what I buy. Taking time to shop wisely for what I want is paying off.

Bought a new knife to try out and the brand is CRKT. If I bought the knife from them it was $140+ shipping. Just got it off Amazon for $91 and free shipping.
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Old September 08, 2018, 22:35   #5
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Originally Posted by tdb59 View Post
Apply it internally:

Pay yourself first. (Did that).

Keep an emergency fund. (Did that too).

Live below your means. (did that as best I could and sat still long enough get a serious back problem).

Pay as you go. (I can't buy what I budgeted for with my savings anymore).
.................................................. ......................

The above is easy to do, so it is also easy not to do.


......................
We are being robbed every day . . .



Trying to keep a happy face on a travesty that needs to be corrected.
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Old September 08, 2018, 22:38   #6
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We live under a debt based system brother your choice to go with the flow or go your own way, as of last week I went the other way and paid everything off - I don't owe anyone anything, pretty good feeling BUT I am missing out on the gains that you can make with leverage, you can also be bankrupted by doing this if the market turns and catches you over extended - happened to one of my best friends in the 08-09 crash, had a few million in leveraged properties - gave it ALL back and it bankrupted him.
I'm almost out of debt and had saved for some home improvements that I cannot now afford because money in the bank is a losing proposition.

Someone is stealing our saved wealth everyday and getting away with it . . .

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Old September 08, 2018, 22:40   #7
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Bubba has it right when he says inflation kills savings. He is smart enough to invest into things he trust. I am too cynical to invest, last time I put money up I lost $4,000 in one quarter and the investment place said it was the safest place to put money.

I think as the economy grows there will be a money shortage and savings may pay a decent return again. Years ago I got 8% out of the money market but haven't seen that in decades. Making money for me these days is saving money in what I buy. Taking time to shop wisely for what I want is paying off.

Bought a new knife to try out and the brand is CRKT. If I bought the knife from them it was $140+ shipping. Just got it off Amazon for $91 and free shipping.
I'd love to know where to invest in order to stay ahead of the REAL inflation rate but so far that vehicle has eluded me.
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Old September 08, 2018, 23:42   #8
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You have to buy your investments below market value,then sell at market,or hopefully,higher.
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Old September 09, 2018, 00:24   #9
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but then there's taxes
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Old September 09, 2018, 00:36   #10
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You have to buy your investments below market value,then sell at market,or hopefully,higher.
This is joke, right?

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Old September 09, 2018, 00:37   #11
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but then there's taxes
This is not a joke.
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Old September 09, 2018, 00:52   #12
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Depending on what extra money you need I believe Joe average could be even or a bit ahead if he buys and sells in his own hobby. There are so many folks wanting to sell at a loss on the net that a sharp man with lots of contacts could make a few bucks. Brother is 76 and buys and fixes up older boats. Not getting rich put pays some of the bills and keeps him busy.

Retired friends have FFL lic and do the gun shows. Nobody is getting rich but they are a bit ahead of the game. Fellow across the street is disabled vet and got a heavy duty sewing machine to make gun cases and a lot of bicycle bags. Too screwed up to make a production thing of it but he is ahead some of the game.

Buying and selling.local gun boards are full of treasures somebody wants.
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Old September 09, 2018, 03:34   #13
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This is joke, right?

No..Dave Ramsey logic.
Investments can be,literally,anything.
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Old September 09, 2018, 06:34   #14
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lay-a-way bitches

seriously, live below your means. think out every purchase.

unsubscribe to all firearm related websites that send emails with deals on guns and/or ammo.
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Old September 09, 2018, 07:18   #15
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Don't become unwell and choose to seek professional help.

Bankrupt City, baby!

...even if one possesses insurance.
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Old September 09, 2018, 07:42   #16
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Remove the fed!
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Old September 10, 2018, 16:11   #17
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Originally Posted by gates View Post
We live under a debt based system brother your choice to go with the flow or go your own way, as of last week I went the other way and paid everything off - I don't owe anyone anything, pretty good feeling BUT I am missing out on the gains that you can make with leverage, you can also be bankrupted by doing this if the market turns and catches you over extended - happened to one of my best friends in the 08-09 crash, had a few million in leveraged properties - gave it ALL back and it bankrupted him.
Well,

I'd bet you still owe property tax and are paying income and any capital gains tax you accrue, so to say you dont owe ANYONE anything is a bit over the top. Maybe you dont owe any banks but you still owe the taxman even after death.

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Old September 10, 2018, 21:50   #18
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Well,

I'd bet you still owe property tax and are paying income and any capital gains tax you accrue, so to say you dont owe ANYONE anything is a bit over the top. Maybe you dont owe any banks but you still owe the taxman even after death.

Thorack
Spot-on and it is a tired old tune except for the FACT that it has become beyond supportable by the working class at this point.

The .gov keeps taking from us and the money is no good on a fixed income.
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Old September 11, 2018, 08:54   #19
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Originally Posted by Bawana jim View Post
Depending on what extra money you need I believe Joe average could be even or a bit ahead if he buys and sells in his own hobby. There are so many folks wanting to sell at a loss on the net that a sharp man with lots of contacts could make a few bucks. Brother is 76 and buys and fixes up older boats. Not getting rich put pays some of the bills and keeps him busy.

Retired friends have FFL lic and do the gun shows. Nobody is getting rich but they are a bit ahead of the game. Fellow across the street is disabled vet and got a heavy duty sewing machine to make gun cases and a lot of bicycle bags. Too screwed up to make a production thing of it but he is ahead some of the game.

Buying and selling.local gun boards are full of treasures somebody wants.
The problem with it is they aren't liquid. And whenever you invest in 'things' you invariably run into storage and maintenance costs. If, for example you start moving a lot of say, guns then you're gonna need a place to keep them. And you're gonna need to insure them. At some point you might find the 'things' owning you instead of the other way round. Sure, you can play around with it the way folks pan for placer. A little here, a little there, it can be fun. But invariably it turns into work if you want to get serious about it.
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Old September 11, 2018, 09:23   #20
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Originally Posted by Bawana jim View Post
Bubba has it right when he says inflation kills savings. He is smart enough to invest into things he trust. I am too cynical to invest, last time I put money up I lost $4,000 in one quarter and the investment place said it was the safest place to put money.
You were not clear on this, but never have an investment advisor that has a stake in selling you stuff. You want someone independent. And then like a doctor, get a second opinion.

I've got a friend with no retirement savings in his early 50's that got a six figure contract job. I directed him towards how to use a SEP IRA to reduce his tax liability and ways to invest successfully but he was determined to listen to the guy at the bank selling him all this bank stuff to invest in that will neither reduce his tax liability nor probably make him any money. OK. He also likes consumer debt and buying things at the spur of the moment.
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Old September 11, 2018, 09:27   #21
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You were not clear on this, but never have an investment advisor that has a stake in selling you stuff. You want someone independent. And then like a doctor, get a second opinion.

I've got a friend with no retirement savings in his early 50's that got a six figure contract job. I directed him towards how to use a SEP IRA to reduce his tax liability and ways to invest successfully but he was determined to listen to the guy at the bank selling him all this bank stuff to invest in that will neither reduce his tax liability nor probably make him any money. OK. He also likes consumer debt and buying things at the spur of the moment.
Possibly best advice ever. In particular, remember the guys who hawk PMs are in the business of selling PMs. If they really had the level of confidence in them that they tell you they have they'd be buying, not selling.
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Old September 11, 2018, 10:50   #22
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Back to the original topic....

I don't think it is currently "FIXABLE"

Once, a long time ago, We traded our time and productivity for money...cash....The banks needed our money to loan to other folks so they could make MORE MONEY using our money...it was a a WIN/WIN for everyone...we got a GREAT interest rate for allowing the banks to use our lives savings. THE BANKS NEEDED US and OUR MONEY and paid us for it!

Then things changed. Wall Street, "investments", the Fed ...."money" was being given away and created out of thin air and BANKS were GIVEN free money to LOAN back to us. WE WERE REMOVED FROM THE EQUATION so WALL STREET controls the money supply...OUR hard earned money became a casualty of OVER SUPPLY combined with INFLATION, the FED forced us to hand our PRODUCTIVITY via savings to Wall Street if we wanted any kind of "return".....The FINE PRINT being over night...It could go POOF!!! Wall Street determines winners and losers, how much "return" we get and how much they TAKE for yearly bonuses. And the Ponzi scheme continues to grow. If you have lots of money in this system, you get great returns for playing the game, but the average Joe with less then 30K in this system gets monkey hammered....about every 10 years..."POOF, its GONE!"...

Our biggest driver of the "economy" comes from the financial sector where NOTHING is actually produced, just "borrowed" money swapped around and turned into crooked casino style bets with Wall Street able to play and profit from both sides of the deal. Millions made off rumors and tweets of CEOs...what kind of "WEALTH" is it that can DISSOLVE within minutes due to one or two well placed rumors? Or inversely, someone make millions on one or two well timed "TRADES". Real wealth doesn't appear or disappear with the click of a button. NO ONE is trying to protect the average Joe. Its all rigged in favor of Wall Street and the banks. But we all know this and still play the game.

Until we return to some kind of SOUND MONETARY policy....it won't be fixed. All I can see that would require a change is some huge crash / reset where all the "funny money" players lose it all and even then I think the system is still rigged in their favor. I don't have an answer, wish I did. We have to return to some form of holding VALUE in our hours of productivity that doesn't diminish by the whims of others...

For my own part, I've paid off all debt, own my house, drive older cars. Currently paying CASH for my kids college education so no debt. It works, but its a struggle. My kids/wife don't have all shiny new stuff, and at times its depressing to see people living the "high Life" (on debt of course) around me. I'm ONLY a winner by forgoing all the fun and cool stuff NOW if it crashes and gets bad in the future! I'm ready, but at times I feel I am sacrificing the PRESENT and forcing myself and family to miss out on adventures and "happiness" debt can bring. After all, if it crashes, most everyones in the same boat, right? Walk away from all the debt and goods and stuff but keep the memories???? Don't know the answer to this one...I struggle with it daily.
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Old September 11, 2018, 12:21   #23
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Old September 11, 2018, 12:26   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FNfreak View Post
Back to the original topic....

I don't think it is currently "FIXABLE"

Once, a long time ago, We traded our time and productivity for money...cash....The banks needed our money to loan to other folks so they could make MORE MONEY using our money...it was a a WIN/WIN for everyone...we got a GREAT interest rate for allowing the banks to use our lives savings. THE BANKS NEEDED US and OUR MONEY and paid us for it!

Then things changed. Wall Street, "investments", the Fed ...."money" was being given away and created out of thin air and BANKS were GIVEN free money to LOAN back to us. WE WERE REMOVED FROM THE EQUATION so WALL STREET controls the money supply...OUR hard earned money became a casualty of OVER SUPPLY combined with INFLATION, the FED forced us to hand our PRODUCTIVITY via savings to Wall Street if we wanted any kind of "return".....The FINE PRINT being over night...It could go POOF!!! Wall Street determines winners and losers, how much "return" we get and how much they TAKE for yearly bonuses. And the Ponzi scheme continues to grow. If you have lots of money in this system, you get great returns for playing the game, but the average Joe with less then 30K in this system gets monkey hammered....about every 10 years..."POOF, its GONE!"...

Our biggest driver of the "economy" comes from the financial sector where NOTHING is actually produced, just "borrowed" money swapped around and turned into crooked casino style bets with Wall Street able to play and profit from both sides of the deal. Millions made off rumors and tweets of CEOs...what kind of "WEALTH" is it that can DISSOLVE within minutes due to one or two well placed rumors? Or inversely, someone make millions on one or two well timed "TRADES". Real wealth doesn't appear or disappear with the click of a button. NO ONE is trying to protect the average Joe. Its all rigged in favor of Wall Street and the banks. But we all know this and still play the game.

Until we return to some kind of SOUND MONETARY policy....it won't be fixed. All I can see that would require a change is some huge crash / reset where all the "funny money" players lose it all and even then I think the system is still rigged in their favor. I don't have an answer, wish I did. We have to return to some form of holding VALUE in our hours of productivity that doesn't diminish by the whims of others...

For my own part, I've paid off all debt, own my house, drive older cars. Currently paying CASH for my kids college education so no debt. It works, but its a struggle. My kids/wife don't have all shiny new stuff, and at times its depressing to see people living the "high Life" (on debt of course) around me. I'm ONLY a winner by forgoing all the fun and cool stuff NOW if it crashes and gets bad in the future! I'm ready, but at times I feel I am sacrificing the PRESENT and forcing myself and family to miss out on adventures and "happiness" debt can bring. After all, if it crashes, most everyones in the same boat, right? Walk away from all the debt and goods and stuff but keep the memories???? Don't know the answer to this one...I struggle with it daily.
It remains a win-win situation as long as two things remain. First, so long as the economy grows and creates more goods and services than it did the year before. Secondly as long as the overhead remains at or below the level of growth. What happens in real life is that either the banks get greedy and pull too much out of the economy or other nonproducing overhead like government sucks it up. The effect is the same.

But when things contract in real terms then deflation takes over and there is simply no mechanism to handle that. It's why this economy must always expand, and explains the determination of the PTB (the dozen or so that actually understand this) to keep it expanding at all costs. Like with bringing in third worlders by the tankerload, and signing trade agreements that otherwise make no sense.
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Old September 12, 2018, 21:57   #25
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It remains a win-win situation as long as two things remain. First, so long as the economy grows and creates more goods and services than it did the year before. Secondly as long as the overhead remains at or below the level of growth. What happens in real life is that either the banks get greedy and pull too much out of the economy or other nonproducing overhead like government sucks it up. The effect is the same.

But when things contract in real terms then deflation takes over and there is simply no mechanism to handle that. It's why this economy must always expand, and explains the determination of the PTB (the dozen or so that actually understand this) to keep it expanding at all costs. Like with bringing in third worlders by the tankerload, and signing trade agreements that otherwise make no sense.
Which why we need DEFLATION to correct the course of the wealth flow to those who created it in the 1st place.
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Old September 12, 2018, 22:13   #26
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Old September 12, 2018, 22:32   #27
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I was reading the world is in debt 167 trillion, what do you put up for collateral to get 167 trillion dollars?
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Old September 12, 2018, 22:58   #28
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I was reading the world is in debt 167 trillion, what do you put up for collateral to get 167 trillion dollars?
Any fools who believe they actually owe that to any banks is an idiot.

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Old September 12, 2018, 23:20   #29
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Apply it internally:

Pay yourself first.

Keep an emergency fund.

Live below your means.

Pay as you go.
.................................................. ......................

The above is easy to do, so it is also easy not to do.


......................

Living below your means is the single biggest mistake 99% of Americans make. Our consumer driven culture thrives on consumers chasing the next big thing and buying it on credit. Most can't fathom doing without and the sacrifice it takes to live below your means.

I try like hell to. I've also sacrificed quite a bit to get where I am today - where I'm finally retiring revolving debts and looking to max out my retirement funds and set aside cash for the future.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bawana jim View Post
I was reading the world is in debt 167 trillion, what do you put up for collateral to get 167 trillion dollars?
Umm....you can't. Fortunately, we currently have a pretty strong deterrence to foreign collections vis a vis the US Military. Now, what do we do when our whole system goes Tango Uniform and we look like Venezuela or Zimbabwe? Who knows....
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Old September 13, 2018, 08:49   #30
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Originally Posted by Bama Steve View Post
Which why we need DEFLATION to correct the course of the wealth flow to those who created it in the 1st place.
Well I would not argue the point, only saying that the consequences of that will be beyond what is imaginable for an awful lot of folks. Short of taking interest rates negative there would be no way to support existing debt. And although it would not be a solution (math again, sorry) I would expect the useful idiots to resort to wholesale confiscation of wealth in the form of personal property as part of the armwaving and gnashing of teeth that this would invariably cause.

And it ain't clear how many folks would pay a bank or for that matter anyone else to hold their money until it literally disappeared.

I call them useful idiots because that's what they are. And it's worth remembering that while stupidity is forever, usefulness is fungible and transitory.

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Any fools who believe they actually owe that to any banks is an idiot.

Absolutely .
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Old September 13, 2018, 09:09   #31
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Best to become self sufficient as possible growing your own food and meeting your own needs. Make enough to cover taxes, fees, insurance and emergencies. Save in an emergency fund of "liquid assets" like precious metals. Stockpile long term nonperishable foods and basic necessities to last the rest of your life if possible. Then keep your head down, grab some popcorn and liquid refreshments and watch world events as it all implodes.

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Old September 13, 2018, 09:16   #32
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Well I would not argue the point, only saying that the consequences of that will be beyond what is imaginable for an awful lot of folks. Short of taking interest rates negative there would be no way to support existing debt. And although it would not be a solution (math again, sorry) I would expect the useful idiots to resort to wholesale confiscation of wealth in the form of personal property as part of the armwaving and gnashing of teeth that this would invariably cause.

And it ain't clear how many folks would pay a bank or for that matter anyone else to hold their money until it literally disappeared.

I call them useful idiots because that's what they are. And it's worth remembering that while stupidity is forever, usefulness is fungible and transitory.



Absolutely .
People pay the banks to spend their own money all the time. Checking accounts you have to pay for and credit cards you have to pay higher prices if you use them. I pay my bills by check but use cash to live on. Credit card for Costco and a few holsters but nothing else. I do find I have to use a store paid for credit card for some items.
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Old September 13, 2018, 09:51   #33
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People pay the banks to spend their own money all the time. Checking accounts you have to pay for and credit cards you have to pay higher prices if you use them. I pay my bills by check but use cash to live on. Credit card for Costco and a few holsters but nothing else. I do find I have to use a store paid for credit card for some items.
Yes they do. Banks provide services people pay for. But negative interest rates, ie buying a CD for $100 that you can only get $90 for after a year is gonna be a big paradigm shift for a lot of folks. And it ain't gonna help sell bonds, course i've never been big on bonds myself.
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Old September 13, 2018, 10:49   #34
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Yes they do. Banks provide services people pay for. But negative interest rates, ie buying a CD for $100 that you can only get $90 for after a year is gonna be a big paradigm shift for a lot of folks. And it ain't gonna help sell bonds, course i've never been big on bonds myself.
Those services create a negative rate in a way. Credit cards cost to buy the card and if you don't pay it off right away it's 18%+ to spend your money. If you don't pay it off in a year then you have truly fugged yourself yet there are people out there transferring debt from card to card to try and beat the system. banks are like drug dealers only they try to get you hooked on credit.
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Old September 13, 2018, 11:14   #35
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I'm gonna leave this here instead of starting a new thread, since it is in the same vein. Armstrong lays it out.

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/a...p-or-woodward/
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Old September 13, 2018, 15:01   #36
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I'm gonna leave this here instead of starting a new thread, since it is in the same vein. Armstrong lays it out.

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/a...p-or-woodward/
Thanks for posting that link.
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Old September 13, 2018, 16:12   #37
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Thanks for posting that link.
You're welcome.
Whenever I find something that I think will be interesting to other guys, I will post a link. Sometimes, it turns out, I am the only one interested. Oh well.
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Old September 13, 2018, 21:54   #38
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Well I would not argue the point, only saying that the consequences of that will be beyond what is imaginable for an awful lot of folks. Short of taking interest rates negative there would be no way to support existing debt. And although it would not be a solution (math again, sorry) I would expect the useful idiots to resort to wholesale confiscation of wealth in the form of personal property as part of the armwaving and gnashing of teeth that this would invariably cause.

And it ain't clear how many folks would pay a bank or for that matter anyone else to hold their money until it literally disappeared.

I call them useful idiots because that's what they are. And it's worth remembering that while stupidity is forever, usefulness is fungible and transitory.
Kinda like the market, housing and monetary crash not so long ago where the banks, politicians and investment houses refused to take the self induced hit for their very bad and criminal choices which caused us all to suffer the new normal of what money can buy?
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Old September 14, 2018, 07:08   #39
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Kinda like the market, housing and monetary crash not so long ago where the banks, politicians and investment houses refused to take the self induced hit for their very bad and criminal choices which caused us all to suffer the new normal of what money can buy?
Well yeah, very much like that in fact In fact precisely like that.

How about a deal where you get to set the rules, your own take of the proceeds and your risk is limited to the deal ending? But wait, there's more. Others take the fall for all, repeat all your mistakes. Oversight of your activities is (you guessed it) done exclusively by you, your books are private and you are not subject to audit.

You risk essentially nothing. You don't have to do anything. And you decide how much you want off the top. Nice, eh? Because that's the deal the republicrats gave the New York fed back in the day, and the deal has only gotten worse with age.
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Old September 14, 2018, 21:36   #40
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Back to the original topic....

I don't think it is currently "FIXABLE"

Once, a long time ago, We traded our time and productivity for money...cash....The banks needed our money to loan to other folks so they could make MORE MONEY using our money...it was a a WIN/WIN for everyone...we got a GREAT interest rate for allowing the banks to use our lives savings. THE BANKS NEEDED US and OUR MONEY and paid us for it!

Then things changed. Wall Street, "investments", the Fed ...."money" was being given away and created out of thin air and BANKS were GIVEN free money to LOAN back to us. WE WERE REMOVED FROM THE EQUATION so WALL STREET controls the money supply...OUR hard earned money became a casualty of OVER SUPPLY combined with INFLATION, the FED forced us to hand our PRODUCTIVITY via savings to Wall Street if we wanted any kind of "return".....The FINE PRINT being over night...It could go POOF!!! Wall Street determines winners and losers, how much "return" we get and how much they TAKE for yearly bonuses. And the Ponzi scheme continues to grow. If you have lots of money in this system, you get great returns for playing the game, but the average Joe with less then 30K in this system gets monkey hammered....about every 10 years..."POOF, its GONE!"...

Our biggest driver of the "economy" comes from the financial sector where NOTHING is actually produced, just "borrowed" money swapped around and turned into crooked casino style bets with Wall Street able to play and profit from both sides of the deal. Millions made off rumors and tweets of CEOs...what kind of "WEALTH" is it that can DISSOLVE within minutes due to one or two well placed rumors? Or inversely, someone make millions on one or two well timed "TRADES". Real wealth doesn't appear or disappear with the click of a button. NO ONE is trying to protect the average Joe. Its all rigged in favor of Wall Street and the banks. But we all know this and still play the game.

Until we return to some kind of SOUND MONETARY policy....it won't be fixed. All I can see that would require a change is some huge crash / reset where all the "funny money" players lose it all and even then I think the system is still rigged in their favor. I don't have an answer, wish I did. We have to return to some form of holding VALUE in our hours of productivity that doesn't diminish by the whims of others...

For my own part, I've paid off all debt, own my house, drive older cars. Currently paying CASH for my kids college education so no debt. It works, but its a struggle. My kids/wife don't have all shiny new stuff, and at times its depressing to see people living the "high Life" (on debt of course) around me. I'm ONLY a winner by forgoing all the fun and cool stuff NOW if it crashes and gets bad in the future! I'm ready, but at times I feel I am sacrificing the PRESENT and forcing myself and family to miss out on adventures and "happiness" debt can bring. After all, if it crashes, most everyones in the same boat, right? Walk away from all the debt and goods and stuff but keep the memories???? Don't know the answer to this one...I struggle with it daily.
You are not being ignored.

The truth you have posted is just too damn difficult to digest because none of us have the means to stop it and change it it.

But all is not lost yet.

Get civics back in schools - teach your children well and vote for those who are on the right side of this equation.

This will not get fixed any other way and just because we may or may not own firearms is not going to change anything with respect to the absurd monetary system.
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Old September 15, 2018, 00:04   #41
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Well yeah, very much like that in fact In fact precisely like that.

How about a deal where you get to set the rules, your own take of the proceeds and your risk is limited to the deal ending? But wait, there's more. Others take the fall for all, repeat all your mistakes. Oversight of your activities is (you guessed it) done exclusively by you, your books are private and you are not subject to audit.

You risk essentially nothing. You don't have to do anything. And you decide how much you want off the top. Nice, eh? Because that's the deal the republicrats gave the New York fed back in the day, and the deal has only gotten worse with age.
WE, are plumb and square, Sir.



See you at the fire . . .
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Old September 15, 2018, 01:14   #42
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Best to become self sufficient as possible growing your own food and meeting your own needs. Make enough to cover taxes, fees, insurance and emergencies. Save in an emergency fund of "liquid assets" like precious metals. Stockpile long term nonperishable foods and basic necessities to last the rest of your life if possible. Then keep your head down, grab some popcorn and liquid refreshments and watch world events as it all implodes.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/peak...ive-t4882.html
I appreciate your thoughts but the reality is that a paradigm shift is in order.

Living below your means is a losing proposition in this climate - it's time to fix this shit and it is just that - Shit.
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