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Old November 16, 2012, 06:47   #1
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Re: the discussion of rights

Since we had an ongoing and unresolved discussion on the subject, perhaps it may interest one or two people to spend a little leisure time on a several part lecture on the origin and development of the concept of individual natural rights by the very pleasant and knowledgeable Tom Woods.

I believe you can skip to about 4:00 to cut out the speaker intro.
Hope you enjoy:

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Old November 16, 2012, 07:27   #2
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I believe 'natural rights' are a lovely concept. They speak of some of the highest ideals humans have aspired to.

However, to possess and exercise them, you must be willing to kill to preserve them. Because others seeking to deny them to you will surely and demonstrably do the same to you.

Usually in the guise of government. These are where history inks in the great killings.

Criminals operate more on an individual basis. Perhaps that point illustrates criminals are less of a threat than governments.
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Well, if you think about it, socialists are essentially thieves. The difference between them and a regular thief is that they don't have the guts to do their own stealing.
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Old November 16, 2012, 07:32   #3
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I believe 'natural rights' are a lovely concept. They speak of some of the highest ideals humans have aspired to.

However, to possess and exercise them, you must be willing to kill to preserve them. Because others seeking to deny them to you will surely and demonstrably do the same to you.

Usually in the guise of government. These are where history inks in the great killings.

Criminals operate more on an individual basis. Perhaps that point illustrates criminals are less of a threat than governments.
Defense of rights is no wrong. It has been said that a proper pacifist is one who is willing to fight to defend his right to be peaceful.

As to your last sentence, I believe that no amount of private crime among humanity could possibly have matched the volume of property destruction and murder committed by governments in the last century.
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Old November 16, 2012, 07:40   #4
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As to your last sentence, I believe that no amount of private crime among humanity could possibly have matched the volume of property destruction and murder committed by governments in the last century.
No need to "believe" in something that is documented fact. It exists without the need for faith.

Used to call that type of thing 'hard data'. It is incontrovertible and not subject to misinterpretation.

It will however eventually fall to revisionist historians who will bury the facts as they don't fit with their narrative. Becoming available only to the acolytes who serve those in power. Those types are reluctant to talk out of school.
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Well, if you think about it, socialists are essentially thieves. The difference between them and a regular thief is that they don't have the guts to do their own stealing.
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Old November 16, 2012, 07:50   #5
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No need to "believe" in something that is documented fact. It exists without the need for faith.
I try to be careful how I phrase things. While we know the tally on governmental carnage, the amount of private crime as a substitute, absent government, is mere speculation.
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Old November 16, 2012, 07:58   #6
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I try to be careful how I phrase things. While we know the tally on governmental carnage, the amount of private crime as a substitute, absent government, is mere speculation.
Agreed. I was speaking only to the actions of government.


Private crime is not a substitute however. It is at times seen as competition and is eradicated. This also has been documented. The Khans may be the first example of this behavior.
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Well, if you think about it, socialists are essentially thieves. The difference between them and a regular thief is that they don't have the guts to do their own stealing.
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Old November 16, 2012, 08:10   #7
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Agreed. I was speaking only to the actions of government.


Private crime is not a substitute however. It is at times seen as competition and is eradicated. This also has been documented. The Khans may be the first example of this behavior.
I know they got on James T. Kirk's last good nerve.
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Old November 16, 2012, 08:13   #8
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Can you even make fine Corinthian leather from a yak?
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Well, if you think about it, socialists are essentially thieves. The difference between them and a regular thief is that they don't have the guts to do their own stealing.
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Old November 16, 2012, 08:16   #9
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Can you even make fine Corinthian leather from a yak?
Damn it Jim--I'm a doctor, not an upholsterer.
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Old November 16, 2012, 08:23   #10
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I got a cream puff Chrysler LaBaron for sale. Knee deep in rubber and the inside of the tail pipe is as white as your shirt. Oh, and as for Kahn-He's dead, Jim.
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Old November 16, 2012, 08:26   #11
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I got a cream puff Chrysler LaBaron for sale. Knee deep in rubber and the inside of the tail pipe is as white as your shirt. Oh, and as for Kahn-He's dead, Jim.
Been reading you for years here my man. What's your first name? And when you gonna' travel up and shoot with us at the spring FAL match Stimpy hosts?

You really need to, you know?

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Well, if you think about it, socialists are essentially thieves. The difference between them and a regular thief is that they don't have the guts to do their own stealing.
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Old November 16, 2012, 08:35   #12
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Been reading you for years here my man. What's your first name? And when you gonna' travel up and shoot with us at the spring FAL match Stimpy hosts?

You really need to, you know?

Lowell
Lowell, I'm Tom. I try to stay below the gnat line as much as I can. I think I channeled my daddy in my last post. He sold used cars.
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Old November 16, 2012, 18:09   #13
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Lowell, I'm Tom. I try to stay below the gnat line as much as I can.
Thank you, Tom. Good to meet you, far as this medium allows anyhow.

You really ought to try to get up for the FAL match Stimpy hosts. It's more fun than a new batch of puppies.
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Well, if you think about it, socialists are essentially thieves. The difference between them and a regular thief is that they don't have the guts to do their own stealing.
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Old November 16, 2012, 19:31   #14
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Just viewed all six parts and I learned that:

A cannon lawyer applied his Gracian formula so taxes are slavery and a German guy says all that should be viewed through the universal studio.
Anyone who says different is just a Khan man.
I'm still wondering why cannons need representation.

Gotta love those Mises to pieces.



(late night)
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Old November 16, 2012, 19:43   #15
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I'm still wondering why cannons need representation.
Cannons (sp) are the last argument of Kings. But everyone listens to Reason (TM). Don't make me power up Reason, nobody wants that.
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Well, if you think about it, socialists are essentially thieves. The difference between them and a regular thief is that they don't have the guts to do their own stealing.
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Old November 16, 2012, 19:51   #16
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Thank you, Tom. Good to meet you, far as this medium allows anyhow.

You really ought to try to get up for the FAL match Stimpy hosts. It's more fun than a new batch of puppies.
Yep.

Second.
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Old November 17, 2012, 05:26   #17
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Back to the serious discussion of rights.

It's interesting knowing the history of the philosophy of individual rights but knowing that history is not protection against others superseding your rights.
Knowing the history means having a moral foundation to stand on. And that is the very beginning and bedrock of any defense. That's why it's important.

Knowledge truly is power.
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Old November 17, 2012, 08:00   #18
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Hmmm,

So Might doesnt makes Right, if your the dead one? Wonder how any of these arguements stand up in court?

Thorack
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Old November 17, 2012, 22:31   #19
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Hmmm,

So Might doesnt makes Right, if your the dead one? Wonder how any of these arguements stand up in court?

Thorack
I have NO idea what any of that means.
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Old November 18, 2012, 10:43   #20
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Knowing the history means having a moral foundation to stand on. And that is the very beginning and bedrock of any defense. That's why it's important.

Knowledge truly is power.
Appropriate........ who can argue with Abe?

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Old November 18, 2012, 10:49   #21
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Appropriate........ who can argue with Abe?

1) Abe was afraid to carry a pocket knife because he was so fucked in the head he thought he would commit suicide.

2) He held every limitation on the federal government and right of individuals in such disdain we can be assured that if he somehow could have wielded an MG it would have been used to subjugate the citizenry.
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Old November 18, 2012, 10:54   #22
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Hmmm,

So Might doesnt makes Right, if your the dead one? Wonder how any of these arguements stand up in court?

Thorack

From Shlomo: "I have NO idea what any of that means. "


Oh goody, I thought it was just me.
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Well, if you think about it, socialists are essentially thieves. The difference between them and a regular thief is that they don't have the guts to do their own stealing.
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Old November 18, 2012, 10:57   #23
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From Shlomo: "I have NO idea what any of that means. "


Oh goody, I thought it was just me.
That, or everyone from Georgia is slow.
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Old November 18, 2012, 11:48   #24
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That, or everyone from Georgia is slow.
Slow is from Texas.
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Old November 18, 2012, 11:57   #25
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1) Abe was afraid to carry a pocket knife because he was so fucked in the head he thought he would commit suicide.

2) He held every limitation on the federal government and right of individuals in such disdain we can be assured that if he somehow could have wielded an MG it would have been used to subjugate the citizenry.
It's funny how most Liberals hate ole Abe Lincoln.... he did allot more good then bad in my oppinion.
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Old November 18, 2012, 12:00   #26
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It's funny how most Liberals hate ole Abe Lincoln.... he did allot more good then bad in my oppinion.
That growling and metal-rending sound you hear from afar is me exercising restraint.
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Old November 18, 2012, 12:15   #27
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Better check your bearings.
You're not questioning my orientation, are you?
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Old November 18, 2012, 12:16   #28
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It's funny how most Liberals hate ole Abe Lincoln.... he did allot more good then bad in my oppinion.
Your oppinion is noted. I'd just feel better if that war had been just a little bit about slavery. It weren't.

Sort of like that youtube video been bandied about recently by the current administration. The media has a long history of being complicit.
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Well, if you think about it, socialists are essentially thieves. The difference between them and a regular thief is that they don't have the guts to do their own stealing.
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Old November 18, 2012, 12:34   #29
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It's funny how most Liberals hate ole Abe Lincoln.... he did allot more good then bad in my oppinion.
You mean libertarians...people who are in favor of smaller government and individual rights. Liberals (overbearing government via democrats) and conservatives (overbearing government via republicans) both adore him and the big government tactics he used.
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Old November 18, 2012, 12:42   #30
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If you're Chinese I apologize.
ROR!
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Old November 18, 2012, 13:01   #31
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Slow is from Texas.
That may be, but I didn't understand Thorack either.
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Old November 18, 2012, 13:07   #32
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...but I didn't understand Thorack either.
He works in military purchasing. NOBODY understands that.
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Well, if you think about it, socialists are essentially thieves. The difference between them and a regular thief is that they don't have the guts to do their own stealing.
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Old November 18, 2012, 13:10   #33
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You funny guy!
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Old November 18, 2012, 15:02   #34
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It's funny how most Liberals hate ole Abe Lincoln.... he did allot more good then bad in my oppinion.
Yeah those 38 indians hangin' in mahnomen was a great start......
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Old November 19, 2012, 09:20   #35
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The Mankato incident would seem to diminish the lauded "Great Emancipator". His convoluted modus, subjugating the indigenous people while emancipating the slaves, is noteworthy.
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Old November 19, 2012, 09:48   #36
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And the only slaves that he emancipated were the ones in the South over whom he had no jurisdiction at the time.
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Old November 19, 2012, 09:51   #37
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I'm somewhat curious about the latest propaganda movie piece, "Lincoln", and how it is intended to play into the current National crisis agenda.

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Old November 19, 2012, 10:21   #38
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At least he killed a bunch of vampires..........

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Old November 19, 2012, 17:24   #39
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http://townhall.com/columnists/walte..._lincoln/print


"Americans celebrate Abraham Lincoln's Gettysburg Address, but H.L. Mencken correctly evaluated the speech, "It is poetry not logic; beauty, not sense." Lincoln said that the soldiers sacrificed their lives "to the cause of self-determination -- government of the people, by the people, for the people should not perish from the earth." Mencken says: "It is difficult to imagine anything more untrue. The Union soldiers in the battle actually fought against self-determination; it was the Confederates who fought for the right of people to govern themselves." In Federalist Paper 45, Madison guaranteed: "The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite." The South seceded because of Washington's encroachment on that vision.
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