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Old May 14, 2018, 13:57   #1
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CMP Phillipine return Garands

86K rifles coming back. Wow some of them look rough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1-bshef-G8
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Old May 14, 2018, 14:57   #2
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I wouldn't doubt that at all. We looked a little rough when we returned from the Philippines ourselves. R&R in Subic Bay could get to be more exciting than relaxing.

My first SP assignment, what a friggin' education that.

PI is a pretty harsh environment for firearms, nickel and chrome finished arms where popular with the locals.
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Old May 14, 2018, 19:59   #3
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Yep and those are the rifles that guys could not wait to be imported. Typical junk from se Asia, just like the Blue Sky imports decades back.
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Old May 14, 2018, 23:17   #4
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Well there seems to be a blend. Some were rough, others pretty damn nice.

When they are done with them at CMP - they will be worth buying.
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Old May 15, 2018, 13:04   #5
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Looking forward to seeing them in the South Store.
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Old May 15, 2018, 15:15   #6
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Yep and those are the rifles that guys could not wait to be imported. Typical junk from se Asia, just like the Blue Sky imports decades back.
I've one of those "Blue Sky Imports" Garands from way back. When I'm back Stateside I will try and upload a pic or two. I can't recall the serial number off-hand but I beleive mine is a early 50s Springfield.
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Old May 15, 2018, 15:16   #7
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Maybe they will be $250 which is what I paid for my dcm m1
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Old May 16, 2018, 06:48   #8
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Well there seems to be a blend. Some were rough, others pretty damn nice.

When they are done with them at CMP - they will be worth buying.
I agree partially with your assessment Mandy
what I doubt is that some can be made into even Rack Grade specials
What guys need to understand is the PI is NOT Taiwan or Korea
completely different environmental conditions my buddy
Think in terms of much of the bring backs from VietNam, a fair amount of these guns will be HEAVILY pitted, particularly below the wood line.

Between the extreme humidity, Salty sea air and general shoddy maintenance by much of the military when these were in issue there simply won't be much left to rebuild on a significant number of that 86K lot.
The best CMP can do is run those out as As-Is below Rack Grade specials

I have my doubts that will happen
CMP has turned extremely Greedy basically pushing the notion even the worst of their trash is somehow a "collectors item" since they touched it
What's going on with the 1911 pricing is a blatant example of this new mode of management.

Yeah quite a few folks used to abuse the DCM and later the CMP, buy cheap and roll over high. Knew guys who had Wives, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, even Co=Workers buying for them
Used to be a DCM program that sold guns to LEOs, man was that abused. Knew a couple guys that were getting the entire Department to sign up. This was years before the free DRMO M16s, talking 70s and 80s.

Anyways CMP got of the mind that they were selling too cheap and raised prices to just over market levels

Simple truth is plenty of folks don't want a Garand with one of their aftermarket stocks & barrels in their park
They have nice USGI bbls and wood already, think we have 3 GI bbls on the shelf, and assorted wood.
Bunch more folks want to build up BM59s right now, many would take a rough receiver. All CMP need do is strip the trash down to barreled receiver, price them right, say around $300+ and they add to their stock of replacement parts while unloading junk that will just piss people off if they try to rebuld it as Rack Grade or better.

I have looked these guns over years before CMP was even aware they existed
yeah some damn' nice ones but that's the minority Mandy. Much of my gals family were either PI Army or Marine Officers.
It's not just these Garands either, they have just thousands of USGI M1 Carbines and 1911s that have been removed from service
A shit ton of M3s and Thompsons, 1919s, BARs, you name it
The M3s recently went through modernization for the Marines. Basically a 1913 rail welded to the tube and a new integral suppressor. Manilla had little interest in adopting 9mm subguns. The PI just loves .45 acp.

Another place where there is a crap ton CMP might be able to access is VietNam. They have warehouses packed with what was left behind. A bit of that was getting sold into Australia before the change in gun law, some has been imported into Canada.
Some guys outside America were making fortunes buying aircraft spares in VN and reselling but the well is running low on the new old stock bits now.

Anyways, I think CMP has their head up their collective asses regarding their current pricing structure
really...rusty, pitted, broken non functional 1911s for $850 ?
spare me

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Old May 16, 2018, 17:34   #9
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Yeah, I'd love to have a receiver suitable for a BM-59 conversion at a decent price, but I doubt that we'll get that out of the CMP with these.
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Old May 16, 2018, 23:35   #10
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We all like to buy low sell high but when anyone, including the CMP, offers an item with too high a price then the product (or M1) won't sell. I would also prefer to have the system gamed (multiple friends, family members buying guns they don't want) than to have these classic guns, no matter what condition, face the cutting torch.
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Old May 17, 2018, 12:06   #11
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So they are roughly into the project for $6 million?

That's around $70/rifle.

Should be a nice profit margin.
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Old May 17, 2018, 12:17   #12
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Maybe they will be $250 which is what I paid for my dcm m1
I paid $ 165.00.

All of which shows that the DCM especially, and to a great degree the CMP have caused artificially low pricing in the secondary marketplace.

Particularly for rifles that have not been produced since 1957/58.


CMP by charter must self-support all operations.

Do the math, if you care to.






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Old May 17, 2018, 14:50   #13
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Yep and those are the rifles that guys could not wait to be imported. Typical junk from se Asia, just like the Blue Sky imports decades back.
The Korean Garands were pretty good. Some of the muzzles were a little rough but a lot of good, correct rifles got put together from those guns. Was my first garand I bought the week I turned 18...an H+R I paid $200 for.
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Old May 17, 2018, 21:35   #14
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I paid $ 165.00.

All of which shows that the DCM especially, and to a great degree the CMP have caused artificially low pricing in the secondary marketplace.

Particularly for rifles that have not been produced since 1957/58.


CMP by charter must self-support all operations.

Do the math, if you care to.





.........................
Going to disagree

We are not discussing rare or even scarce collectors grade firearms
Garands were churned out extreme numbers
Once CMP rebuilds them with aftermarket barrels & furniture whatever collectibility they once had is gone like Unicorn farts in the wind.

During the DCM era there was more BS to go through for that $125.00 Garand, truth was in many areas there were no high power ranges/matches that qualified.
Back then for example there were non in North or South Dakota, Montana and many other States.

In fact up through the flood of Korean guns non DCM Garands were around $400. There was no artifical low prices due to the DCM or CMP. What changed things were the cheap imports. Your claims are largely a fantasy account.

Yes CMP is self funding, they must turn a profit on things to support their mission
I have no issues with that
I do take issue with broken, rusty, pitted, nonfunctional 1911s at $850
that's actually going to inflate market pricing if anything

that's simply not part of their mission
particularly when you remember they have about zero money into the 1911 deal.

You have been around long enough that you know just how bad things in tropical storage get TDB
heck they talk about Termite infestations and the crates being stored in warehouses with leaky roofs
I'm thinking conditions worse than the Nepal Palace that IMA bought out
some of that was under half a foot of bird shit.

Anyways the low condition M1s need to be just dumped, like I said stripped to barreled receivers, furniture sold for firewood and the rest binned up for operational spares.
that's the sensible thing to do in my opinion but CMP managment likely has different ideas.
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Old May 18, 2018, 10:57   #15
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children of WW2 vets are aging out, and grandchildren are only somewhat interested, so either shit or get off the pot. the time to make best coin on WW2 surplus is past, and receeding.
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Old May 18, 2018, 15:02   #16
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children of WW2 vets are aging out, and grandchildren are only somewhat interested, so either shit or get off the pot. the time to make best coin on WW2 surplus is past, and receeding.
Yeah sort of true
all it takes is another major movie & interest comes alive again.

it happened when Saving Private Ryan came out
just a ton of goobers looking
same with Enemy at the Gates, that really fed the Nagant nonsense
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Old May 18, 2018, 17:08   #17
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What's with the negative waves?
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Old May 18, 2018, 19:05   #18
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What's with the negative waves?
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Old May 18, 2018, 20:24   #19
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What's with the negative waves?
Pretty simple Hollis:

Beat to shit, non functional, rusty, pitted up 1911s for $850 ?
Oh yeah, they were touched by the Unicorn Farts at CMP right...

I say just wrong, well unless they are one of your new charities
I wish I could say I was indulging in personal poetic licence but thats about how CMP describes the $850 examples.
Being Charitable you are getting an at best $500 junker and giving the org a $350 donation.

Again, the PI Garands came out of Termite infested warehouses with leaky roofs, that's their own admission. Even figuring their investment as another noted that's still roughly $70 each to Anniston.

Okay, let's say they rebarrel, restock and repark this trash
would you be very happy to find medium to deep pitting the first time you tear your new to you CMP special down that you just shelled out say $800 smackers for ?

me, I'd be pissed.

I'll give you another example
years ago while Turner Kirkland was in control of Dixie Gun Works his vintage parts remained cheap. Yeah some folks were buying them up, marking them up.
So Turner retires, turns operations over to his son Hunter
one of the 1st things dingaling does is radically increase prices
in the end he shot himself in his fat foot. Resellers quit buying and their customers for the most part remain unaware of the original source

CMP management seems to be engaged in a similar game...they want ALL the Jacksons and like Hunter I see a major foot shooting in play.

Some of the 1911s deserve upper end valuation as will some of the Garands
but hell buddy, they have 86K of PI Garands and thousands of 1911s coming in. They need to move the scrap, salvage as needed not try to play Mr. Collector with pure trash.
I am betting that's what they will try even with ratty tore up junk Garands under the new operational management model and in doing so, they shit their own bed

It's going to be a slow motion Train Wreak
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Old May 19, 2018, 05:40   #20
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I guess when the 1911's are put up for sale will tell the tale. If they all sell quickly ( which I think they will) they were priced right
IMO the only people belly aching about the prices are the guys that wanted to get them for nothing
Time will tell...........................
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Old May 19, 2018, 11:36   #21
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I paid $750 for a 1918, black Army Colt, all correct and original, back in 2003.

New Colt 1911 Gov't Models, go for about a grand today.

The 1911-2011 model has gone way up, as have the re-issue Black Army and Carbonia finish, 1911 re-issues.
The Turnbull, Remington-UMC re-issue is $$$$ now.
Only the 1965 Colt WWI Commemeratives, ( Belleau Wood, Chateau Thierry) seem to be lagging a bit, at $1000.

Remington, Taurus and Cimarron 1911's can be had for about $600-750.

The Argentinian 1911's commanded around $500+ when they came in from Sarco.

Many Garands will be bought, disassembled for parts, & sold on ebay/GB, making plenty of collectors very happy.

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Old May 19, 2018, 12:03   #22
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Exactly.

I just figure time will tell. If they're pitted junkers, then they're pitted junkers. Nobody is twisting anyones arm to buy them. People were gnashing their teeth 'cause they wouldn't let them in the country and now they're here. It is what it is.

Probably better than dumping them in the ocean.
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Old May 19, 2018, 15:53   #23
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Korea still has around 80,000 Garands and 600,000 M1 Carbines. Obama did everything in his power to derail the return of this American property. He had the gall to claim he didn't want them back in the US because they would fall into the hands of criminals. I'm sure there are numerous Libtards who would believe his hogwash but anyone with a lick of sense knows better.
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Old May 19, 2018, 16:30   #24
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Korea still has around 80,000 Garands and 600,000 M1 Carbines. Obama did everything in his power to derail the return of this American property. He had the gall to claim he didn't want them back in the US because they would fall into the hands of criminals. I'm sure there are numerous Libtards who would believe his hogwash but anyone with a lick of sense knows better.
Don't you know the M1 Garand machine gun with its 5.56 drum of doom is the most common baby killer in the US?

Think of the Children!
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Old May 19, 2018, 17:07   #25
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Don't you know the M1 Garand machine gun with its 5.56 drum of doom is the most common baby killer in the US?

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Old May 19, 2018, 17:50   #26
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I have it on good authority that the worst of these PI junkers are slated for an episode of "Forged in Fire". They will be be hammered into "Patton' M1913 Calvary Sabres.
I'm looking forward to that episode.
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Old June 10, 2018, 17:52   #27
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I wouldn't doubt that at all. We looked a little rough when we returned from the Philippines ourselves. R&R in Subic Bay could get to be more exciting than relaxing.

My first SP assignment, what a friggin' education that.

PI is a pretty harsh environment for firearms, nickel and chrome finished arms where popular with the locals.
Nickel and chrome is STILL popular with the locals. I was drinking tequila with some friends of the family, a local Filipino policeman and his buddies last month in Surigao City, Surigao del Norte province, Mindanao, PI. Of course the discussion turned to firearms, they asked alot of questions about my CCL and such. The cop pulls his service revolver out of a sling pack to display. The back half is nickel or chrome and the barrel is a grey hard coat finish of some sort, really ugly but--- no rust!

Did some island hopping while there, here is yours truely at Cloud 9 on Siargao:
IMG_20180510_144819126

My wife and some family in the background:
IMG_20180510_161507611

The pavilion. If you know surfing you know this.
IMG_20180510_161337525

But enough of the thread hijack. My Greek return rack grade looks like sh*t too so the PI stuff is not the only "junk" to come back.

P1000859

Nice wood. NOT.
P1000870

Looking pretty ugly here...
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Old June 13, 2018, 18:10   #28
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Only skimmers got shore patrol. Us Boat Sailors had the very best of Olongapo Ladies. Buckwjeat we loved it and I'll go back for more. Jus sayin



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I wouldn't doubt that at all. We looked a little rough when we returned from the Philippines ourselves. R&R in Subic Bay could get to be more exciting than relaxing.

My first SP assignment, what a friggin' education that.

PI is a pretty harsh environment for firearms, nickel and chrome finished arms where popular with the locals.
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Old June 14, 2018, 09:10   #29
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Only skimmers got shore patrol. Us Boat Sailors had the very best of Olongapo Ladies. Buckwjeat we loved it and I'll go back for more. Jus sayin
"Skimmers"? Sub talk for us surface types I assume?
The Navy tried to get me into Sub school, but I was having none of that. Claustrophobia and SSN 593 may have influenced my choices.

Warning! Some of them "Olongapo Ladies" ain't ladies, ya know what I mean.

I especially enjoyed "Grilled Monkey on a stick" from the street venders, but there was a lot San Miguel required beforehand. Papa Gio's was some good Mex cuisine.

Olongapo, the gutter of the Pacific.
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