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Old May 08, 2018, 04:33   #1
yellowhand
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All done going home! Dog ate really, really, nice C stock!

One of our great members, had his dog each his butt stock, one of the nicest I've seen in a while, minus the dog eating on it for a while!

He has been going thru some troubles of late, we were working another deal, he mentioned it got ate, and ate really good, I said send it, will work it back into shape, no real cost involved, just a challenge, and no, I don;t need no more challenges, but thought folks might like to watch this one come back to life, I hope!!!!

If this is in wrong place, please move it.

Also, get asked a LOT, can this be fixed, had a couple sets of typical rough hand guards on the bench, putting them back together, so took some snaps of them in process.

Also, any suggestions on how to do something shown here, shout out, I'm always learning new stuff myself.

1st up, da dog really ate my stock!
As it arrived.



left side view, damage was mostly top and left side, couple of eye teeth marks on right side.



After initial chemical stripping down, to remove old finish, begin to raise what can be raised, and a very light sanding, this one had a lot of splinters from fido doing their chop chop.







Looking far better!

There is also what appears to be a crack, top of spline, not showing up in pictures, which will need to be blind pinned when I get to that issue, close it up tight, then pin it, blind pin, ie, chisel up a small patch of wood, 1/4 chisel, extremely sharp, leave patch attached, I hope, fold up out of way, drill hole across the crack, fill with glue, insert pin, allow to dry, then fold down wood patch, glue down tight, and all disappears, on a good day.

The following is just some major repairs required on some wood hand guards to make whole and nice again.

Wood is getting hard to come by, old days of nos surplus wood is a thing of the past, so fixing existing wood, will be the norm going forward for folks wanting wood on their rifles.

For some reason, I like the used stuff far better than the nos stuff we could get once upon a time.
Like an older woman, highly experienced, some times used hard, but still got plenty of life left in her!

Areas around the screw holes, craters, cracks, really long cracks, chips, dents, spits, missing wood, its all here.

I'm going to try before and after pictures in order.
Dark areas, after repairs, is simply a dark walnut dye, on repair and around the area, a light sanding, it all blends together for final color and shade.

Any way, enjoy, and most all of this hard to come by wood can be "saved" to live on another 40 or 50 years.

And comments are requested, suggestion made, whatever.
















This one below, shows a reinforcement patch in place over the TYPICAL weak spot in these hand guards.
I cut a piece of old hand guard wood, shape it to fit area, and glue it down tight, then sand and blend to existing shape of guard.





The area for reinforcement, is just in front of the small round hole.



This was interesting, was actually missing a good size piece of wood in a strange area, at least for me.



Now all repaired and rough sanded to proper shape.





A little chip out occurred while sanding, very small working area, showed up under dye.





Now after some burn in work, chip now gone, all smooth, poor photo.



Small divet!



Now with wood chip ready to glue in to fill it.
Just pick, shave off and line up a piece with same grain lines, repair just disappears.







This was the hand guard, with a break all the way from end to end in the earlier photos!

Now all glued up with initial sanding.





This repair will require hand fitting a reinforcement piece, front end and rear end, with a long piece down the center section, then a lot of work up to make disappear.

I'll route out the center, front, and rear section insert the "new" wood reinforcements, sand smooth, they about disapear, could be made too, but since not seen, I don;t get crazy on the repair area.

And I've done this reinforcement work to all of my wood hand guards on my own fals/L1A1's, just makes these weak areas far stronger.
After 500 or 600 rounds thru them, still holding good, like new.

Any way, YOU save that old wood, don;t throw it away, If ya need help, ask.
This is what I do when I can't sleep at night.

And I ain;t looking for more work, got more than I really want, but this is fun, to bring back the old stuff and make it nice.

As this work progresses, will post a few after pictures, or process pictures on going.





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Last edited by yellowhand; May 15, 2018 at 23:34.
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Old May 08, 2018, 06:11   #2
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@ YH,
Is there a trade name for the material that the US.mil traditionally used for filling deep gouges in wood stocks.
Years ago there were many M1 stocks (and others) that had deep gouges filled with a dark brown material that was hard as hades, and usually blended in pretty good, too.
Epoxy of some kind, maybe?
Anywho, just wondering as I've never known what it was.
Thanks and carry on with all your good works!
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Old May 08, 2018, 06:19   #3
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Great looking repairs!

Another tool in my wood repair arsenal is known to some as shellac sticks, others as burn-in sticks. This may be what TenTea is referencing.

Normally used to fill small voids in wood (to make a "hidden repair") it can be used just fine for large fills. While the descriptions usually refer to shellac'd wood, I've found it useful on all but matte finished wood. Even then they work, it's just very hard to hide the fill.

You can buy some pretty complete kits, but I've been successful for years with simple, clean putty knives, burn-in sticks and a torch. Luthiers and furniture repair techs use them all the time.

Supplies are all over the 'net, I've been using https://www.shellac.net/BurnInDamageRepair.html

I'd post examples of past work but photobucket...
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Old May 08, 2018, 09:04   #4
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Old May 08, 2018, 10:41   #5
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First off; is the dog still alive?

Looks like you're really enjoying the new shop YH. I've had several of your furniture sets and have always found your refinishing work to be top shelf. Thanks also for sharing your process on hidden pin repair. Interesting.

Grandfather taught me this fix for voids; sand around existing void (I know this may not always be possible) and, using a good grade of wood glue (one that dries clear), mix sanding residue into a nice paste. Fill void, let dry and sand. It obviously won't replicate grain but will get you a nice color match.
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Old May 08, 2018, 11:04   #6
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Originally Posted by Eyeguy View Post
First off; is the dog still alive?
LOL I was gonna ask the same question. I guess your dog is trying to tell you he wants you to spend more "quality" time with him. At lest that's how my wife approaches things.
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Old May 08, 2018, 13:02   #7
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Why did he have his dog chew on it?
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Old May 08, 2018, 13:04   #8
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Originally Posted by TenTea View Post
@ YH,
Is there a trade name for the material that the US.mil traditionally used for filling deep gouges in wood stocks.
Years ago there were many M1 stocks (and others) that had deep gouges filled with a dark brown material that was hard as hades, and usually blended in pretty good, too.
Epoxy of some kind, maybe?
Anywho, just wondering as I've never known what it was.
Thanks and carry on with all your good works!
I know what ya talking about, seen it, but no idea what it was.
I could use "burn in" and be done in about 30 minutes, it dries hard as a rock, permanent repair, they might have used something like this.
This is such a nice stock, going to go old school.
Drill down into compacted area from teeth, remove compact, peg it, build up to just below surface level, with wood pieces and glue, then cap each mark with a piece of thin wood with same grain lines running in same direction.
Its a walnut stock, and I have a lot of that here for repairs, various grain patterns.
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Old May 08, 2018, 13:21   #9
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Originally Posted by sjohnson View Post
Great looking repairs!

Another tool in my wood repair arsenal is known to some as shellac sticks, others as burn-in sticks. This may be what TenTea is referencing.

Normally used to fill small voids in wood (to make a "hidden repair") it can be used just fine for large fills. While the descriptions usually refer to shellac'd wood, I've found it useful on all but matte finished wood. Even then they work, it's just very hard to hide the fill.

You can buy some pretty complete kits, but I've been successful for years with simple, clean putty knives, burn-in sticks and a torch. Luthiers and furniture repair techs use them all the time.

Supplies are all over the 'net, I've been using https://www.shellac.net/BurnInDamageRepair.html

I'd post examples of past work but photobucket...

I use burn in a lot of times, its quick, permanent.
Can be blended to match exact final finish.
I use it a lot of table top restorations, great for large areas.
I like it, because it acts like epoxy, really grabs whatever its applied to.
On hand guards, many have areas of micro spider cracks, I use a magnifying glass on all of these sets I do.
I fill these micro cracks with burn in, than sand off to surface level, prevents them from ever opening up into a real problem.
Since its melted, and hardens as soon as it cools, instantly, it really flows down into the repair areas.
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Old May 08, 2018, 13:26   #10
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Originally Posted by Eyeguy View Post
First off; is the dog still alive?

Looks like you're really enjoying the new shop YH. I've had several of your furniture sets and have always found your refinishing work to be top shelf. Thanks also for sharing your process on hidden pin repair. Interesting.

Grandfather taught me this fix for voids; sand around existing void (I know this may not always be possible) and, using a good grade of wood glue (one that dries clear), mix sanding residue into a nice paste. Fill void, let dry and sand. It obviously won't replicate grain but will get you a nice color match.
Thank you, I try!

The owner never said, but I did pick out three or four metal bits from this stock, looked like regular steel shot????

He said he was outside, sat it down on his patio table, went in house for something, came back, instant chew toy.

Both of my Rotties are termites, I cut and toss them foot long sections of 2x4's and they enjoy eating those.

A major reason, they are never allowed into the new shop!!!!
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Old May 08, 2018, 13:29   #11
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Be glad you don't have a parrot. Dogs are amateurs at this stuff. AMHIK
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Old May 08, 2018, 14:34   #12
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Looks like you need a new stock...


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Old May 08, 2018, 14:48   #13
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Our dogs love to eat wood. To avoid splinters in their gut and ass, we get them plastic bones. The poop looks pretty weird and not sure if they are going have much teeth left in their old age... but you cannot reason with them. At least they kinda listen... unlike the stoopid cats!
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Old May 08, 2018, 15:05   #14
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You mentioned "...begin to raise what can be raised.."

What is it that you are doing in terms of "raising"? Could you provide some details?
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Old May 08, 2018, 15:06   #15
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Wood

My Lab destroyer a nice set of Canadians.
My fault I left them where he could get at them.
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Old May 08, 2018, 15:07   #16
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My Lab destroyer a nice set of Canadians.
My fault I left them where he could get at them.
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My ex was a Canadian.... I like your dog!
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Old May 08, 2018, 15:19   #17
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You mentioned "...begin to raise what can be raised.."

What is it that you are doing in terms of "raising"? Could you provide some details?
Hot water eye dropped down into the smaller holes, water and heat swell wood, and brings out dings, raising them to surface level.

People often steam their stocks, wet wash rag, and an iron, steams out dents, raises the crushed wood to surface area.
This one is so chewed, all I'm really doing is trying to uncompressed the bite marks a little, then will drill out the compressed/damaged wood, dowel it with a wooden dowel, down to undamaged wood, then fill in with bits and pieces, gluing each layer to just under the stock surface, then cover it with new wood.
Compressed wood like this, is like building your home over sand, ya got to have a solid surface or what is on top will fail.
The hard work on this one, will never be seen once done.
I just checked, got most of the holes raised up a good bit, will drill and dowel them this evening, then build them up to near surface.

The way I clean and strip wood down, as a matter of course, lifts out 95% of all surface dents, cuts way down on sanding, which I hate to do.
Once wood is gone, is a real pain to replace on small areas and make it stay put under recoil, heat, and hard use.
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Old May 08, 2018, 17:25   #18
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Thanks guys, for all the additional info.
I knew nothing of burn in or schellac sticks until today.

https://www.shellac.net/BurnInDamageRepair.html
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Old May 08, 2018, 19:09   #19
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Thanks guys, for all the additional info.
I knew nothing of burn in or schellac sticks until today.

https://www.shellac.net/BurnInDamageRepair.html
Its a great product, just avoid using it on any area that flexes, it don;t like that!

For solid flat areas, its great and fast.

Get several colors, light to dark, then you can make the color you need from mixing them, takes a little practice.

I melt light and dark sticks together into one, heat knife, and just swipe down the sides, that way, you can mix and apply with two hands, not three or four!!!
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Old May 09, 2018, 09:54   #20
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You can put putty on it, but it still won't ever be the same.

If the putty or glue is still wet, and you sand over it, the dust from the sandpaper embed in the top layer of the putty and will stain (somewhat) but you'll always be able to see it in my humble opinion.

Also, I don't like using chemical strippers on wood. All those acids are very hard on it.

I typically take the time and sand wood down by hand.
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Old May 09, 2018, 10:52   #21
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People are aware of wood rasps, but another little-utilized tool that's great for certain jobs are cabinet scrapers.

I've bought them (good ones expensive, often Japanese) but I've made my own throw-aways from cut waste (free) plate glass. The scored side of the glass is a no-go but the "cut" (broken) side of the glass is razor sharp and as flat as your cut-line is straight.
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Old May 09, 2018, 12:01   #22
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You can put putty on it, but it still won't ever be the same.

If the putty or glue is still wet, and you sand over it, the dust from the sandpaper embed in the top layer of the putty and will stain (somewhat) but you'll always be able to see it in my humble opinion.

Also, I don't like using chemical strippers on wood. All those acids are very hard on it.

I typically take the time and sand wood down by hand.

I've got the main three "holes" on top of the spine, which took the worst of it from fido, filled up with solid walnut already, and rough sanded to shape already into into place.

The bite marks tore up so much material, ended up simply cutting it all out down to solid wood, which left nearly a 1/4 inch deep clean zone, which worked out well, in that I could use 1/4 inch solid walnut to patch, vs building up and top "sheeting the repairs, much stronger done this way, presents some other issues, but strength of the repair is always number one.

Chemical strippers need to be used on old military surplus, oil soaked wood, simply to get down through the crud to the actual wood.
Was working up a dozen sets of hand guards last evening, oil soaked, 50 years old, oil over paint, paint over oil, things were jet black.

Sanding on top of 50 years worth of oils, paints, G-d only knows what was used over those times frames just works to grind it deeper into the wood.

I ended up breaking out the big dogs on this bunch of wood, after using regular strippers three times, the bottle of Dawn dish washing liquid was brought into play.

So much old oil present, it was acting as a barrier to the chemical strippers actually getting down to the actual wood.

I take all my wood down to oil free, paint free, stain free, dye free, before ever hitting it with very high grit, 220 to 400 sand paper.

That weathered natural wood color, that even "grey" is what I'm going for.
Once that is done, then a "Very light" sanding will take care of grain raised during the cleaning process, leaving most of the original wood intact.

Once you get the wood down to this level, then you can go back and make it any color and shade you like, light to dark.

Pistol grips, are what normally is the darkest piece of a 4 set L1A1 wood set, and also the one piece of the four that you can't wail on with sand paper, destroys the shape of the piece, rounds off the cut sharp corners, etc.

I do the pistol grips first, for color and shade, then match everything else up to them.

This butt the dog ate will end up with some added charm, an "added" dark vein running down the spline, such as this natural piece here in this photo of a Brit walnut butt stock I had recently. This will go a long way to "hide" the repair areas.





On the largest of the holes in the spine, I picked out a piece of walnut for the patch, with a distinct hook and swirl grain in it. I'll extend those natural "crazy" lines over the joint line onto the regular stock which will blend the repair areas to the original stock.

The "trick" to repairs like this, is to fool the eye into thinking, yea, that is a distinct marking in the wood, a natural fluke, but nice!

All while defecting from the repaired places.

Its all up to the human eye, it sees harsh sharp lines, non natural formations, not found in nature, getting it all to "blend" tricks the eye to see the whole vs zeroing in on just the out of place repairs.

So far, the dog stock is looking good, will post up some pictures of progress this evening.
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Old May 09, 2018, 19:31   #23
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Originally Posted by yellowhand View Post
...
Wood is getting hard to come by, old days of nos surplus wood is a thing of the past, so fixing existing wood, will be the norm going forward for folks wanting wood on their rifles.

For some reason, I like the used stuff far better than the nos stuff we could get once upon a time.
Like an older woman, highly experienced, some times used hard, but still got plenty of life left in her!
...

You my friend are true Master and I have learned a lot from you via. your posts and the few phone conversations which you and I have had. ......

I agree with you about the old wood drying up. It saddens me that a lot of these old handguards have been sacrificed. I have a difference of opinion over this topic with a member here, whom I consider a good friend, who like yourself is a Master at his craft...

Keep up the good work and I look forward to seeing the end result.


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Old May 09, 2018, 20:06   #24
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You my friend are true Master and I have learned a lot from you via. your posts and the few phone conversations which you and I have had. ......

I agree with you about the old wood drying up. It saddens me that a lot of these old handguards have been sacrificed. I have a difference of opinion over this topic with a member here, whom I consider a good friend, who like yourself is a Master at his craft...

Keep up the good work and I look forward to seeing the end result.


.
I worked on it more today, before it got to hot, going back out this evening, after the Braves beat TB, 5 to nuthin in the 7th.

Got all the holes repaired, and lordy, there were a LOT of holes, little ones and huge ass ones.

That puppy got his share of fiber that day!!!

The hard work is all done, its back usable, always a good thing, now just got to make it pretty!

Will post up some snaps tonight.
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Old May 09, 2018, 22:20   #25
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Mighty fine work goin' on there Paul!
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Old May 10, 2018, 02:33   #26
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Mighty fine work goin' on there Paul!
I hope, spent a few hours on it again tonight, got it with dye and 1st coat of oil, now the fun stuff starts for real, making the repaired areas go away from sight.

Got it with now with a darker color, will now take a lot of that off, then blend the repair areas to match what I leave on it.

Reason I didn't post up pictures tonight, at this stage it kinda looks like poop, way to dark.

About normal for these type repairs.

Fix,dye, oil, remove, then blend, hide, send home, I hope!

Its fun, keeps me from running the streets.

The hand guards at the top of this thread are all done, in oiling process.
Someone will be happy when those sets go out the door.
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Old May 11, 2018, 02:17   #27
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Ended up aging the hell out of it, adding color and various shades, removing them, mostly, adding more, then blending the whole thing, all to hide the repairs.

All that is left now, add a top coat of light medium walnut dye, then oil it to final finish.

Should look nice, after some touch up in a few spots, after a few coats of oil.



This below was the real rough side.











I darken the natural grain lines, one by one, both sides, all the way around, some were wide, some a few hairs thick, this hides most of the smaller bite marks in the contrasting shades.

Should really jump out at you when finished.

I hope!
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Old May 11, 2018, 09:00   #28
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Looks amazingly good!

I look forward to seeing the finished product.
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Old May 11, 2018, 11:10   #29
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Very nicely done YH.

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Old May 11, 2018, 11:17   #30
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Nice work!

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Old May 11, 2018, 13:24   #31
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Very nicely done YH.

It's a confident man who puts a tip jar on his workbench


Mama off to school this morning, subbing today, left me a note, nice stock, nice work, now get IT off my kitchen counter, was waiting for me when I got up, beside the coffee pot!!!!!!

Wimmen!!!!!
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Old May 11, 2018, 13:31   #32
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As soon as I get my coffee drank this morning, been working late out in the evening/night time, ain't got the cooler hooked up yet in the work shop, going out and getting first coat of oil on this one, another later this evening.

5% humidity here, and 91 degrees, so everything dries fast!

Guess I better get to asking the owner, if he wants a set of three slot original FN hand guards to go along with this butt stock.

Got a set here, which should be a good match when all done.
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Old May 13, 2018, 11:06   #33
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That is one hell of a good job, and a good turn for another member is always praise worthy. Fine job, sir, and congratulations for picking such a low humidity climate.
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Old May 13, 2018, 14:35   #34
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That is one hell of a good job, and a good turn for another member is always praise worthy. Fine job, sir, and congratulations for picking such a low humidity climate.
We thank you Sir!

Its getting there, got the sides all done, that top section, driving me a little nuts, think I've got it, oil dries, repairs bleed through, start all over.

Got two small areas that wish to defy logic and work, but they will succumb!
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Old May 15, 2018, 02:18   #35
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I started to bite my own ass over this one,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,however,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,every DOG has his day!!!!!!


In hand, at this point, ya can "kinda" tell something has gone on, but not really sure what or exactly where.

It's wet, so can't move it around for better pictures.

And still got to "catch up" oiling the repair areas with rest of the stock, if I can remember what sections weren't worked on at some point.

The camera flash brings out far more detail than normal with just the mk 1 eyeball.

The stock beside it is a D62 N British stock, also walnut of course and D marked pistol grip, walnut, that just showed up beside it as I was finished oiling, along with an Aussi normal N butt and pistol grip being worked up for, someone so far not named, once the guards are done to make it into a complete set.







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Old May 15, 2018, 04:11   #36
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Amazing! Repairs blended in and I can't even tell repairs were ever made.
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Old May 15, 2018, 23:34   #37
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Amazing! Repairs blended in and I can't even tell repairs were ever made.
We thank you Sir!!!
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Old May 15, 2018, 23:42   #38
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All done, going home in a day or so.

Might "pick" at it some, but this one is about done.

Got to make up a note, and hang it around its neck.

"This ain't no chew toy!"

My thanks to everyone for their kind remarks and comments.

On to the next projects.

And my picture taking still sucks!!!!






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Old May 15, 2018, 23:49   #39
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Wow.....beautiful work there sir!

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Old May 16, 2018, 00:02   #40
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Wow.....beautiful work there sir!

Thanks Mike, should make Rich smile a little, a little good news.
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Old May 16, 2018, 06:56   #41
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Nice!
All's well that ends well, and a good story too.
Nice doggie...

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Old May 16, 2018, 09:18   #42
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Great Job yellowhand. Sending some chairs your way!
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Old May 16, 2018, 14:28   #43
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Great Job yellowhand. Sending some chairs your way!
Ah hell, shoes, chairs, plastic lawn furniture, house trim, ship it all,,,,,,,,,,,to someone else,,,,,,please!!!!!!

I got to learn one day, to take better pictures, oh well, that and understanding wimmen will need to wait to another day.
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Old May 16, 2018, 14:48   #44
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That turned out really good yellowhand.

From the pictures, it's unnoticeable that it was ever damaged.

That is really good work.
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Old May 16, 2018, 14:56   #45
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I got to learn one day, to take better pictures, oh well, that and understanding wimmen will need to wait to another day.
One is probably possible; the other is definitely not.
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Old May 16, 2018, 15:57   #46
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That turned out really good yellowhand.

From the pictures, it's unnoticeable that it was ever damaged.

That is really good work.
Thank you Sir!

It looks far better in hand, than my crappy ass photos.
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Old May 16, 2018, 16:17   #47
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That turned out very nice. I can't tell it was seriously damaged. Prob better than new now.
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Old May 16, 2018, 16:30   #48
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Great photo essay, too!

Nice job, YH. That's amazing work.
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Old May 16, 2018, 18:55   #49
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You are an artist Paul
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Old May 16, 2018, 19:05   #50
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You are an artist Paul
Ya ought to see me paint tha house, you won't, mama says something about a dumb ass monkey with a paint brush, then reminds me the Braves are playing ball!!!!!

Rule # 14 in tha marriage hand book, 47 years now, whatever you don't want to do for mama, just volunteer to do it once and really screw it up!!!!

Ya'll never be asked to do that again.
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