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Old October 27, 2018, 22:28   #1
VHart51
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FN M4s

Are the FN made M4's worth the money, I mean I can get a Bushmaster for ~$699 or a FN for ~$800? Thx.
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Old October 28, 2018, 06:14   #2
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Some folks say that Bushmaster’s QC hasn’t been the same since the Freedom group acquisition about 10 years ago and their move from ME to NY, but I don’t have any firsthand experience with those Bushmasters, I will say that Remington products suck since FG bought them.

FN makes solid ARs but honestly so do lots of other companies. Windham Weaponry (the original Bushmaster company) makes fantastic ARs in the same price range and you can build one from Palmetto State Armory for around $400 and they’re decent guns- I own two and they work great. ARs are cheaper than they’ve ever been.

If you’re really narrowing it to the two- I’d likely opt for the FN just because I’m leery of FG products (although Bushmaster may be fine now). If I were in your position and didn’t go PSA, I’d buy a Windham.
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Old October 28, 2018, 09:56   #3
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To me ? FN & Colt are in the same family . My $ .02
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Old October 28, 2018, 11:30   #4
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I agree with VALMET. The early Windham Bushy rifles were excellent. In fact, Quality Parts/Bushmaster held a gov't contract for M16's when Colt couldn't back in the early 90's.
Later NY guns are reportedly not up to snuff but I have no first hand experience with those.
I also vote early Windham rifle then FN, then PSA (I also have a PSA rifle, no complaints) in order for these three. I wouldn't pay extra for an FN over a Bushy for the same rifle unless the Bushy is a later NY gun, then FN would be my choice.
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Old October 28, 2018, 13:22   #5
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I have owned bunches of ARs over the years. The only ones I would not buy are Bushmaster and Olympic due to problems I had years ago with them. Right now I have Colts, Smiths, CMMG, and a FN. All run good and accurate. My Colts are the older models with fixed carry handles. The only reason I bought a FN was because I didn't want to put a $1300 ACOG on a $600 rifle.
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Old October 28, 2018, 15:08   #6
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Some folks say that Bushmaster’s QC hasn’t been the same since the Freedom group acquisition about 10 years ago and their move from ME to NY, but I don’t have any firsthand experience with those Bushmasters, I will say that Remington products suck since FG bought them.

FN makes solid ARs but honestly so do lots of other companies. Windham Weaponry (the original Bushmaster company) makes fantastic ARs in the same price range and you can build one from Palmetto State Armory for around $400 and they’re decent guns- I own two and they work great. ARs are cheaper than they’ve ever been.

If you’re really narrowing it to the two- I’d likely opt for the FN just because I’m leery of FG products (although Bushmaster may be fine now). If I were in your position and didn’t go PSA, I’d buy a Windham.
That's just what heard from a friend of mine this morning, though he likes his Rock River, too! Thx Valmet! And for the record I own a '86 Pre-Ban Colt AR -15 A2 HBAR (rifle), I bought it off my buddy (original owner), but it's in the safe. Thx again for all the info, guys!
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Old October 28, 2018, 16:53   #7
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Well,

Cant tell you about value but I have carried an M-4 in combat in Iraq and it didnt let me down. I think folks will pay more for a Colt but the FN quality is the same.

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Old October 28, 2018, 22:43   #8
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If I don't build it myself and there is not a Colt pony on the side only built AR's are DPMS and Smith & Wesson M&P 15's. Actually got a suprised deal on a M&P 10 which never intended to own an AR 10 in 7.62 NATO/308 and now own a pair of DPMS Oracle's plus the S&W M&P 10 in 7.62/308. Originally built a pair of 338 Federal, pair of 6XC and now waiting on barrels to do a pair of 6.5 Creedmore. Have 18 of the Smith M&P 15's put back as an investment like the $129 preban AK's, $99 SKS-M's and $79 SKS's piled like firewood from mid 1986 thru mid/late 1988.

Every week was not out of town climbing, cycling or skiing bought an SKS every other week then an AK per month and an SKS-M per month. All came with 600 round tins of ammo and the -M's along with AK's had three 30 round magazines. Over the years have pulled a few out during panics with ammo and done well with them plus still have a pile of mostly SKS-M's which are the rarest and bring good money if find a collector wanting one.

When caught a sale after the market bottomed out post Sandy Hook bought a half dozen of the "slick side" no forward assist AR 15's at $449 oUT the door. Then bought a half dozen forward assist models at $499 out the door taxes included, followed by a half dozen at $479. Pulled one from each batch and put optics on them and been running them hard after reading so many articles about the 20,000 round HPT/MPI melonite barrels.

M&P 15 with Vortex 1-6x Strike Eagle:



M&P 15 with Vortex 1-4x Viper PST side focus, Franklin Binary trigger & some tacticool bling:



Have run the crap out of both these rifles. With 69 grain SMK's both shoot MOA off the bench. Use both for general purpose do all AR's and neither has ever even hiccuped. The binary can run two or three hard mag dumps then bust a line of 4" plates at 100 yards about as fast as I can move seldom dropping a shot. Both see more rounds than any other single AR I own as use for abusing at range with buddies to keep round counts low on my personal builds. Also stashed a few DPMS AR 15's and put one of them into similar service. I would choose either at similar price points.
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Old October 29, 2018, 09:31   #9
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Are the FN made M4's worth the money, I mean I can get a Bushmaster for ~$699 or a FN for ~$800? Thx.
The base model FNs and Colts are more than worth the extra $100-200 for their chrome lined barrels alone. There is a certain air of AK-ness about this for me when it comes to a SHTF situation.

Especially FNs barrels. I got their first model A1 SPR bolt rifle for a song ($950) off Gunjoker because everyone is dumping them and getting the A5 version (big deal....you can just convert the early models to AICS mags with any number of market options). It has a chrome line barrel made from the same blanks and to the same spec as the M240. Shoots sub MOA with Hirt milsurp ammo, close to 1/2 MOA with 175g handloads. Did I mention thats from a chrome lined barrel thats expected to go 10,000 rounds with no loss of accuracy?

Now the SPR and the SCAR Hs barrels are hammer forged. I think, but I am not sure, their US 5.56 barrels are button rifled. But I'm pretty sure they are both drilled and chrome lined on the same machinery here in Columbia. I've seen their gun drilling setup and its an incredible machine.
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Old October 29, 2018, 09:33   #10
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Assuming that you feel like a chrome-lined barrel is actually a positive attribute
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Old October 29, 2018, 09:35   #11
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If you want the very best workmanship, and most-accurate (i.e. capable of winning national championship right out of the box), just get a White Oak upper and skip the Colt/FN nonsense.

https://www.whiteoakarmament.com/sho...te-uppers.html
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Old October 29, 2018, 09:50   #12
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If you want the very best workmanship, and most-accurate (i.e. capable of winning national championship right out of the box), just get a White Oak upper and skip the Colt/FN nonsense.

https://www.whiteoakarmament.com/sho...te-uppers.html
Amen, I have two White Oak uppers and why use more White Oak barrels than most other brands. A WOA built upper will out shoot 98% of home built uppers and chrome lined barrels have no need to exist anymore.
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Old October 29, 2018, 09:53   #13
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I'm not a bad wagon fan boy, but it is damned hard to beat a Colt 6920 out of the box for the price.

https://www.armsunlimited.com/Colt-L...e-p/le6920.htm

If you are patient and look around, you can score a lightly used example for around $700-$800.

The FN M4geries are solid, but I personally prefer the fit and finish of the rifles that Colt has been kicking out onto the market over the past couple years.
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Old October 29, 2018, 10:35   #14
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I'd be hard pressed to be convinced ANY factory M4 with a name brand on it is worth the $$$ these days. They are milspec-ish. That means basic parts that are reliable, but not really superior in any way. It's not like you can only build a Honda but buy a Ferrari. Quite the opposite now, the military uses the Hondas and we can build Ferraris for not much, if any more $$$. My lightweight build has some milspec stuff in it, but is still free-floated, has an improved trigger, grip, adjustable stock, sights, and other things, and I've got about $450 in it. For that same $800 you can build a real decent M4gery with the good stuff inside, and better accuracy than the FN will get you. Then again some people insist on a Colt 1911 or none at all, so I guess it's up to where your priorities lie.
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Old October 29, 2018, 11:08   #15
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Interesting........
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Old October 29, 2018, 11:08   #16
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I'd be hard pressed to be convinced ANY factory M4 with a name brand on it is worth the $$$ these days.
I disagree.

I think the opposite. the competition is stiff enough that you can buy a quality Colt or FN rifle for around $800, which I believe to an exceptional buy for the $$$.

Yes, there are solid rifles out there for less $$$. The total quality of the package may or may not be on par with a comparable Colt. I find that they are not.

I'm not saying that a S&W or entry level SIG isn't a solid rifle for the $$$. They are. Personally, I recommend stepping up a C-note into a Colt (or FN) if you want an M4gery.

Now, if people want to discuss configurations and applications other than an M4gery, that is an entirely different discussion all together.
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Old October 29, 2018, 12:47   #17
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Are the FN made M4's worth the money, I mean I can get a Bushmaster for ~$699 or a FN for ~$800? Thx.
Brother VHart51: Please state your intended purpose of the AR-15 you desire. There are ARs out there for $3K + (optics not included) for top-rated scoring at matches, etc., and there are ARs for under $500 that you can throw n your trunk or in a pirogue and not worry too much about it.

Your explanation of intention will go a long way with the other FALaholics with more accurate replies to help you.

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Old October 29, 2018, 13:36   #18
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Forgot to mention another reason. Besides barrel quality and resale value, a lot of the Colt LE6920 carbines actually say "M4 Carbine" on the receiver (confirm before you buy). Make of that what you will but for me, that level of authenticity and the durability of their chrome lined barrels make it worth an extra $200 if you want a clone of an M4.

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Old October 29, 2018, 13:39   #19
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I agree.

If you are buying a gun with the idea that you are going to store it for the next guy, in order to and re-sell it to an eager market, the fanbois brands are the way to go.

You'll make your money back at least. Take good care of it for the next guy. Don't want to get scolded for "undisclosed damage."
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Old October 29, 2018, 14:13   #20
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Since my first AR in 1998, a Colt, and thru the years owning just about every brand including crap Olympic and PWA, to a few Bushmasters, M&A parts guns, Windham( the "dissipator"I have from them is excellent quality) even though it has a commercial tube, Del-Ton, RRA, PSA, and one Bear Creek, I've always retained the Colts. I am however a Colt snob, but fit and finish on the Colts I have is top notch, and function has been fine. Referring to an earlier reply, depends on the use intended, and longevity. If a weekend beater, go cheap, if you want to possibly re-sale years from now, go name-brand. That's probably the best aspect of this shooting hobby, we have so many options to make decisions with.
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Old October 29, 2018, 14:37   #21
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Brother VHart51: Please state your intended purpose of the AR-15 you desire. There are ARs out there for $3K + (optics not included) for top-rated scoring at matches, etc., and there are ARs for under $500 that you can throw n your trunk or in a pirogue and not worry too much about it.

Your explanation of intention will go a long way with the other FALaholics with more accurate replies to help you.

Jarhead
Okay, I know this sounds like a conspiracy theory, but since the shooting at the Jewish Synagogue I am thinking on getting a M4gery (I like that ), but I want a well made one. I thought that Colt's QC was suspect (depending on who you talk to) & didn't FN build rifles for the US during the Colt strike in the late 80's/early 90's? Anyway I'm just wanting one to shoot, like the FN FAL that I want -I had an Original 50.00, but now looking for a NICE shooter. Am I making any sense? Wanting & needing?
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Old October 29, 2018, 14:54   #22
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IMHO, The FN is worth the extra money.

All 3 of my FN barrels , all free floated ,( All PSA ) shoot great. 18" LtWt profile CHF CL RLGS in 5.56, 20" H-Bar RLGS SS, and my favorite , hands down is the .308 / 7.62x51 CHF CL 20"...

I have no idea if your FN would shoot like my 7.62x51.... but it can do this.

10rds Horn. AG 155gr , rapidish fire, benched, scoped, bagged front and rear.

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Old October 29, 2018, 18:54   #23
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IMHO, The FN is worth the extra money.

All 3 of my FN barrels , all free floated ,( All PSA ) shoot great. 18" LtWt profile CHF CL RLGS in 5.56, 20" H-Bar RLGS SS, and my favorite , hands down is the .308 / 7.62x51 CHF CL 20"...

I have no idea if your FN would shoot like my 7.62x51.... but it can do this.

10rds Horn. AG 155gr , rapidish fire, benched, scoped, bagged front and rear.

Whoa! That's impressive!
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Old October 30, 2018, 00:08   #24
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I agree.

If you are buying a gun with the idea that you are going to store it for the next guy, in order to and re-sell it to an eager market, the fanbois brands are the way to go.

You'll make your money back at least. Take good care of it for the next guy. Don't want to get scolded for "undisclosed damage."
20 years of personal experience with Colt rifles in the military as an Infantry grunt (and servicing as an armorer) and carrying a 6920 on the civilian side of the fence has made me a "fanboi" of Colt rifles.

A colt M4 or 6920 is no frills, no BS...IT IS A TOOL. It is reliable, solid, and you know what you are getting when you open the box. That is why I recommend it.
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Old October 30, 2018, 00:17   #25
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I thought that Colt's QC was suspect
Based upon what? What you read on the internet?

Never mind the hundreds of thousands of rifles that have been perpetually serving military and law enforcement agencies globally for half a Century.

Bunch of fanbois.

It is no secret that FN manufactures an excellent rifle... especially barrels.
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Old October 30, 2018, 04:14   #26
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Thx LJ!
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Old October 30, 2018, 09:57   #27
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Pony guns would not continuously be the standard by which others are judged if were poor quality. Have never had a Colt that didn't perform as expected. I build a bunch of rifles and buy rifles from three manufacturers. Colt (for my personal collection), DPMS 50/50 mix put into service versus hoarded as investments and S&W mostly for hoarding but usually pull one out of each group buy at random to test before I put all the others back with nothing more than a inspection and liberal coating of oil. If have any questions about Colt or anyones quality shoot one or ten, don't read the internet spew.
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Old October 30, 2018, 23:54   #28
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Are the FN made M4's worth the money, I mean I can get a Bushmaster for ~$699 or a FN for ~$800? Thx.
Get the FN, well worth the money, the Bushmaster isn't the same as the old Windham ones.
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Old October 31, 2018, 00:08   #29
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FN or Bushmaster? FN. Easy.
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Old November 03, 2018, 17:16   #30
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Based upon what? What you read on the internet?

Never mind the hundreds of thousands of rifles that have been perpetually serving military and law enforcement agencies globally for half a Century.

Bunch of fanbois.

It is no secret that FN manufactures an excellent rifle... especially barrels.
I remember the Charlotte, NC gun shows back in the late 1990s to early 2001. Quite a few FN made surplus 20" complete A2 uppers were for sale. Wish now I'd a bought some, as they were selling then for around $250.00 Visual quality on those looked excellent.
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Old November 04, 2018, 13:28   #31
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I remember the Charlotte, NC gun shows back in the late 1990s to early 2001. Quite a few FN made surplus 20" complete A2 uppers were for sale. Wish now I'd a bought some, as they were selling then for around $250.00 Visual quality on those looked excellent.
There are still MANY FN M16A2s (and converted M16A4s) currently serving, including my last unit's Marksmanship Team rifles (I just retired with 20 years in July).
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Old November 05, 2018, 14:48   #32
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If the lower is stamped "Windham" , it's a good one.
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Old November 05, 2018, 15:01   #33
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If the lower is stamped "Windham" , it's a good one.
I'll second that. I don't know what the original post op ended up deciding on, but my experience with Windham has been very good. I did a custom dissipator order. Fit, finish, and function are excellent, and these folks were easy to talk to over the phone. Turnaround time on my special order was about a week.
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Old November 05, 2018, 20:17   #34
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I have a couple of old Bushmasters made in Windham Maine. We, (my sons and I) also have a few of the newer Windham Weaponry rifles made in Windham Maine by the old owners of Bushmaster. They have all been excellent shooters with zero problems and accuracy has been outstanding. We use them for varmint/coyote hunting and have been very happy with them.
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Old November 06, 2018, 05:14   #35
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Southern, I havenít bought anything yet as my laptop took a crap so my purchase will wait until after the first of the year depending on the Election outcome. All three Mrgís Hold my interest. So thank you all for your input! Keep shooting!
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Old November 06, 2018, 09:24   #36
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Roger that!
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Old November 12, 2018, 17:14   #37
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I've got a pair of them.
one is a DPMS and it is has a wilson gage 1 in 8 twist barrelled upper with the target sights.... SO called "service rifle" for NRA highpower. J& P trigger on this one.
and the other is built on a rock river arms lower with a krieger custom ss 1 in 7.7 twist barrel with aperture sights front and rear (so called space gun or "target rifle" for NrA higpower. Timney trigger on this one.
They both shoot better then I will ever hold!!
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