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Old April 17, 2018, 12:53   #1
oleblu72
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China starts with tariffs

I guess its time to hit China hard and increase tariffs on all Chinese goods coming into this country. I know this won't be pleasant especially with most all replacement car parts and electronics a few other things coming from there but will it be who blinks first? It will kill their already ailing economy.

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Old April 17, 2018, 13:19   #2
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I think they need us far more than we need them. But that doesn't mean there won't be pain involved for both sides.
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Old April 18, 2018, 11:44   #3
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Harbor Fright, Northern Tool, Walmart, Target, Homeboy Depot and Lowes...
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Old April 18, 2018, 11:55   #4
oleblu72
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Our people in Washington refused to protect this nation & its people when most of our industry decided to desert its country to make a easier buck over there because of greed. Chinese products are so woven into crap that we buy its going to be hard to have a trade war with them now but they will also be hurt badly.

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Old April 18, 2018, 13:28   #5
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Our people in Washington refused to protect this nation & its people when most of our industry decided to desert its country to make a easier buck over there because of greed. Chinese products are so woven into crap that we buy its going to be hard to have a trade war with them now but they will also be hurt badly.

Mark
So basically what your saying is “yeah, we have the highest business tax on Earth, so many pointless regulations that your production costs are 10 times higher, expensive labor, and unionized everything, but **** YOU you have to make your shit here anyway, even if it makes you totally uncompettative and drives you out of business, because protectionism.”

Yeah, no.

Businesses did that because our fucked up left wing government made doing business here too expensive, it is not businesses fault for watching the bottom line, that is their responsibility, it is the governnents fauot for forcing them to do it, and by the governnent I mean liberals and democrats.

That is starting to change though, we now have a relatively low business tax and are looking to cut regulations. As a result businesses are starting to come back, and new ones are even coming over.
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Old April 18, 2018, 14:02   #6
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Is it greedy for a company (like mine) to move from CA to AZ for a more friendly business environment?

If not, then it is not greedy to move to another country for the same result.

The word "greedy" is meaningless anyway - it has no objective meaning. It is an emotional epithet designed to put the other party on the defensive without introducing any evidence to support a contrary position.

People talk about "removing incentives" for illegals to cross the border (and that's a good thing!), but somehow can't hold that same concept in mind to "remove incentives" for businesses to pack up and move to another state or country. Trump is doing well to remove some of the disensentives a company may have to stay here.

As for tariff's I still have mixed feelings. Level Playing Field. FAIR. Treat them the same way they treat us! Sounds reasonable.

But I'm tending more now, to reject tariffs. When tariffs and duties were how the FedGov was financed, it made sense. Now FedGov is funded by other taxes.

I think Ben Shapiro did the best job in convincing me that a tariff is nothing more than a tax on a country's own citizens. Like the minimum wage increase - who pays for it? Not the companies. If there is a 10% tariff on imported raw material, then they just pass it down to the consumer (with markups each step of the way), so the consumer ends up paying a "tax" of the tariff + the admin cost.

And a trade deficit is meaningless. He had a great round table that was about 30 minutes long but I can't find the link. Here's a short 3min.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbFvF7kiOv4
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Old April 18, 2018, 15:26   #7
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What concerns me is the sheer volume of things we use every day,that is almost exclusively made in China. Electronics.Shoes. Gloves. Car parts. Almost everything in Walmart. You have to actually look for things not made there. I do My damnedest to not buy their crap. But nobody else does. And the scary thing is,a lot of their stuff is decent quality. Same effort applied to defense industry,and they got us in a pickle. They're smart,don't kid yourself. But they're still communist,too.
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Old April 18, 2018, 22:15   #8
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What concerns me is the sheer volume of things we use every day,that is almost exclusively made in China. Electronics.Shoes. Gloves. Car parts. Almost everything in Walmart. You have to actually look for things not made there. I do My damnedest to not buy their crap. But nobody else does. And the scary thing is,a lot of their stuff is decent quality. Same effort applied to defense industry,and they got us in a pickle. They're smart,don't kid yourself. But they're still communist,too.
The Chinese are strange, they are communist more on paper than in practice, at least economicaly. I would not want to live there, but as far as business goes they are more mercantile than communist, that’s why they are doing very well while all the other communist countries are shitholes. The closest comparison would be pre World War 1 Britain, more specificaly the East India Company. Basicaly the Chinese philosophy is they don’t care if you make money, in fact they would prefer you did, they are only concerned whether or not you generate wealth for the country and you support the national agenda, other than that they leave business alone.
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Old April 19, 2018, 13:21   #9
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Say what you want but they threw our country under the bus a big F- in bus. I live close to Youngstown Ohio and what happened to this area when they decided to close all the steel mills well you just had to live here to get the full impact I lost two jobs over it because of all the steel dumping and here 45 yrs. later it only got worse.

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Old April 19, 2018, 18:16   #10
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Ok mark,how long would you be in business if I and everyone else could buy your service from a Chinese company for pennies for what you charge .this has nothing to do with quality.i build plastic injection molds.we have customers wanting to build molds and want us to compete with Chinese .the price for a completed tool from them is less than our cost of steel to build it.that is what dumping does.labor is not even in the equation ,and the steel still comes from China normally because not enough American companies left.
Middle America went to Chinese companies and that is why we are in decline .the Chinese use economic warfare and we were to stupid to realize it because corporations were still making a profit.our corporate view is our national view.lucky if it looks four years down the road.chines look 50 or 100 years
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Old April 19, 2018, 18:43   #11
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Ok mark,how long would you be in business if I and everyone else could buy your service from a Chinese company for pennies for what you charge .this has nothing to do with quality.i build plastic injection molds.we have customers wanting to build molds and want us to compete with Chinese .the price for a completed tool from them is less than our cost of steel to build it.that is what dumping does.labor is not even in the equation ,and the steel still comes from China normally because not enough American companies left.
Middle America went to Chinese companies and that is why we are in decline .the Chinese use economic warfare and we were to stupid to realize it because corporations were still making a profit.our corporate view is our national view.lucky if it looks four years down the road.chines look 50 or 100 years
You're looking at things from a "I want to keep doing everything the way I've been doing it for generations, even though someone else is more desirable".

Why should the government tax me to give you a discount? Because that's what a tariff is. It's a tax on a country's own people. Because if you have to pay more for raw materials, are you going to eat it, or pass it on in the cost of your product?

I'm sure the candle makers really got pissed with Edison.
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Old April 19, 2018, 18:43   #12
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Ok mark,how long would you be in business if I and everyone else could buy your service from a Chinese company for pennies for what you charge .this has nothing to do with quality.i build plastic injection molds.we have customers wanting to build molds and want us to compete with Chinese .the price for a completed tool from them is less than our cost of steel to build it.that is what dumping does.labor is not even in the equation ,and the steel still comes from China normally because not enough American companies left.
Middle America went to Chinese companies and that is why we are in decline .the Chinese use economic warfare and we were to stupid to realize it because corporations were still making a profit.our corporate view is our national view.lucky if it looks four years down the road.chines look 50 or 100 years


This is what I'm talking about Zimm our boys down in DC sold us out a long time ago they took the money and run and their still running. Its the best game in town if your a Politian, their the only ones with a good job Cadillac health ins. kick arse retirement plan and were out here scraping our nickels together to pay their wages.

Its been this way so long I seriously doubt there's anyway back from it and it seems like nobody gives a good shit. I feel for the youngsters we sure didn't leave them with anything unless Bernie gets in there any turns the U.S. into more of a nanny & sanctuary state.

Mark
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Old April 19, 2018, 20:06   #13
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We disagree on this,because i think of China as one big corporation running small competitors out of business .when the competition is done they can charge whatever they want.but here's the thing.its not about money to them.what they gain is more valuable than mere dollars ,though that's not chump change .they gain technology freely given to them by businesses wanting to make a few more sheckles .they gain insight on the American people who would trade all their knowledge and acumen for a paltry sum of money .all the Google info and Facebook info goes to China for free . We see China as a place that steals our jobs,they see America as a way to finance their takeover of the world
Funny part is the late 90s tv series firefly kinda said same thing .
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Old April 20, 2018, 11:18   #14
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The worlds a sh#t basket ain't getting any better rich get richer poor get poorer.

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Old April 20, 2018, 13:59   #15
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So many fighting a war that no longer exists.

The Chinese deal was explained to me many years ago in College by Chinese exchange students...I shared a house in the Twin Cities with a mess of them.
One of the older guys was former peoples liberation army, a Beijing professor of Western Culture. Close buddy of mine.

One thing he explained is that the Central Planers had no interest in an American War. The goal was to create a symbiotic relationship via trade & investment in hopes to prevent future conflict

One thing misunderstood is China is not about global domination
they mainly seek to control the whole of Asia, sort of a Monroe Doctrine. More like the EU though. Same shit Japan attempted via WWII.

Some of the guys & gals I lived with were hard core Communist, not many though. Even most of those I corrupted with western values, overall great folks despite that huge sea of cultural differences.

Okay, Harbor Freight et al'
we started off shoring production heavily in the 90s, I was deeply in import well before that.
The super cheap crap is only cheap as it is substandard. You can get crap out of China every bit as good as anything manufactured here or in Europe. You just pay more for it.
This is even true of India & Pakistan folks
American importers just tend to import the cheapest possible products

There was a ton of back room government deals too
like GW's incandecent light bulb ban
now the Chinese make them for us.
Another was Nickel-Iron Edison cells
across the board we gave up industrial production capacity for everything but weapons. That's where we continue to lead.
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Old April 21, 2018, 15:01   #16
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It's called Out sourcing

This has been going on since post WWII. First it was those silly little umbrella's that you got when you ordered a exotic drink at a bar. Then Japan starts making small transitsor radio's. In the 1960's Levy Straus makes Jeans in Pa. as cotton blued material, Then shipped by rail in then new containers to Jacksonville,Fl. loaded on a container ship and shipped to Morocco where they are sewed up with the gold colored thread and then reloaded into a container and shipped back to the USA and back to Pa. via rail and the Levy Straus patch sewed on and shipped to retailer's. Every time you get a Democrap in the Congress and Senate, We get screwed. It never fails and has been going on ever since then. Right now allot of textiles are now made in Vietnam as their labor cost is cheaper than even China. As for China, One third of business is owned by the Chinese Govt. The other two thirds are privatized. The Chinese are buying up U.S. Companies left and right. A company called Gwaltney which makes Chicken, Beef and Pork products has a contract with China to ship live animals to China, Process them, Package them and then ship them back to the USA, Their are several companies under different names that are owned by Smithfield in Va. Gwaltney is just one of them. This was on Fox Business news a few months back.

Then last night I see on the local news our Democrap Sheriff Scott Israel is under attack from his own Deputies Union of a Vote of no Confidence, Of course they want a 6.5 percent raise even though most make over 100K a year already on 48 hour work week which is 4 days a week, This is for an average road patrol Deputy, Plus the Sheriff has taken over the County Fire Dept. and EMS rescue service.This is the same asshole that has been on the nightly news world wide about the Parkland, Fl. shooting incident. Who knows what's going to be next?
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Old April 21, 2018, 15:28   #17
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I've never heard that before about Levi Strauss Lee but it doesn't surprise me.

Imagine how much those deputies would ask for if they actually had some guts so they wouldn't run away from a shooting, although I'm certain that their not all like that.

Mark
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Old April 21, 2018, 16:13   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Small Arms Collector View Post
So basically what your saying is “yeah, we have the highest business tax on Earth, so many pointless regulations that your production costs are 10 times higher, expensive labor, and unionized everything, but **** YOU you have to make your shit here anyway, even if it makes you totally uncompettative and drives you out of business, because protectionism.”




That is starting to change though, we now have a relatively low business tax and are looking to cut regulations. As a result businesses are starting to come back, and new ones are even coming over.
This is the case until we lose control to a wild eyed bunch of communist mutherfuckers again. I assume the next go round the transition of power won’t
go without bloodshed.
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Old April 21, 2018, 16:16   #19
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What concerns me is the sheer volume of things we use every day,that is almost exclusively made in China. Electronics.Shoes. Gloves. Car parts. Almost everything in Walmart. You have to actually look for things not made there. I do My damnedest to not buy their crap. But nobody else does. And the scary thing is,a lot of their stuff is decent quality. Same effort applied to defense industry,and they got us in a pickle. They're smart,don't kid yourself. But they're still communist,too.
With exception of one party rule we aren’t far behind the Chinese.
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Old April 21, 2018, 16:57   #20
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one thing the Chinese don't worry about is the environment. Cheap labor is one thing; screwing up the environment is another. We have some nice pretty sunsets courtesy of the Chinese.

People buying China stuff don't consider environmental issues. They only want lots of cheap stuff, most of which they don't even need.
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Old April 21, 2018, 17:20   #21
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China built the worlds largest dam at 3 rivers with no fish tunnel/stairs/ladders.
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