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#1 |
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FALaholic #: 61807 Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: CA
Posts: 190
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One flyer in 5
Shooting my DSA today using some German MS ball from 1959. The five round groups all went to the 10 ring at 100 yards 1.5" for 4 shots except one flyer that would strike in the 9 ring to make a 3" group. It has a nice condition Imbel barrel. Are the single flyers typical behavior for the FAL type rifle? My M1A shooting the same ball doesn't exhibit the flyer issue (unless I cause it).
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#2 |
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FALaholic #: 34604 Join Date: Feb 2008
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Pretty much typical. Normally the string is vertical
Friend of mine says they are supposed to shoot minute of asshole.
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#3 |
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FALaholic #: 4994 Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Tennessee
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Don't you just hate those flyers...
![]() ![]() Those are 1" squares. This WOULD HAVE BEEN the BEST group ever fired out of this rifle in the 29 years that I've owned it... ![]() |
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#4 | |
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Quote:
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#5 |
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#6 |
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FALaholic #: 4994 Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Tennessee
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YES ...
![]() Like most FALs, this is usually a 2 to 3 MOA rifle with the occasional 1.5 MOA group... Last edited by Goose52; March 10, 2018 at 21:03. |
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#7 |
Old Fart
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FALaholic #: 43 Join Date: Jul 2000
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This is what is frustrating about the FAL. I've had so many groups that were on their way to being great...then one goes out into orbit and the cuss words fly.
Edited to add: I'm going to make a mental note of that load combo. Looks consistent. |
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#8 |
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FALaholic #: 65886 Join Date: Mar 2012
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Nice group, even with the flyer. That said, from a statistical process control point of view, there is no such thing as a flyer. It is what it is.
I see this all the time too. Not just with FALs either. Part of it is just math. Most rounds will hit closer to the true point of aim, but some will not. That is the nature of mechanical systems. And it gets even more chaotic when paired with a human operator. Another pattern I see a lot with FALs is the two group group. Three low left, two high right, or some variation of that. I figure that's reflecting which side of the magazine the round comes from but I haven't bothered to prove it. With surplus, I think a lot of those "flyers" are ammo related. But these were hand loads with top notch bullets. I think some of them are me. I forget to reposition, or I get impatient, or my eyes get tired. To shoot a 1 inch group at 100 yards, you have to do everything perfect, every shot. For me, that gets hard after the tenth or twentieth 5 shot group. Finally, it's the FAL. Just ramming the round into the chamber a little harder one out of five time could do it. It's an inherent weakness compared to a rotating bolt with locking lugs. I've shot hundreds of 5 shot groups with a bunch of different FALs. They are curious animals.
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#9 |
Refresh Key Masher
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FALaholic #: 17136 Join Date: Mar 2005
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I've come to wonder if that "flyer" is late in the group when we know we're shooting well and we can't help but get our face up off the gun and "have a look".
Because once you break the cheek weld, it's not going back in the same place. Also - five shots out of the mag where the fifth shot is NOT the last round in the mag. That's important in my bones/tea leaves/rooster blood recipe for shooting good groups with the FAL.
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#10 |
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Also: Nice shooting, Raj. Thanks for posting.
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#11 | |
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#12 | |
Don't Tread On Me!
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Quote:
Don't over think it, the easy fix is 3 round groups! ![]()
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#13 |
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FALaholic #: 31152 Join Date: Aug 2007
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3 of my 5 FAL rifles do the same thing. It's the way it is, again don't over think it.
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#14 |
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If you're including the nut behind the trigger in the grouping then it is what it is. It's only a "flyer" if you've removed as many variables as possible, and my money says that trigger nut is far more likely the cause. Additionally, ball ammo only had to meet a certain accuracy requirement, I think the current for M-193 is 2-3moa. If you're not feeding it precisely loaded stuff, or better, loaded and tuned to the weapon, I'm thinking your group was more a fluke than anything with a flyer. If you want to blame the equipment though you have to strap that baby into a sled and use a trigger actuator that prevents you from touching the riFAL, while at the same time using ammo you know is repeatable. Do it that way and you'll know what the weapon is capable of under ideal circumstances, otherwise it's a battle rifle with battle parts meant for ground pounders.
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