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The FAL Files Forums  »  Weapons Discussion » General Firearms Discussion » I need a new rifle... **Update with range report**
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Topic: I need a new rifle... **Update with range report**
sslocal
Keeping my head down...

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Old Post January 04, 2005 21:04    Click Here to See the Profile for sslocal   Click here to Send sslocal a Private Message   Click Here to Email sslocal     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #1

Okay, heres the deal. I have been invited to the Boomer Shoot in Idaho this April. The big problem is that I do not have a 30 cal. heavy barrel rifle. My brother has offered to loan me his for my turn at the shoot but that is not going to fly for me.
My research has told me that for new rifles Remington costs the most ($932)followed by in order of price:
Winchester - $734
Savage - $675
Charles Daily barreled action - $409 + about $80 for a stock

I have not been to the local GS looking for a nice used rifle. My goal here is to avoid paying for the rifle by selling one that I already have.
Anybody have any ideas or opinions?


Last edited by sslocal on February 14, 2005 at 22:58


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John Culver
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Old Post January 04, 2005 23:07    Click Here to See the Profile for John Culver   Click here to Send John Culver a Private Message   Click Here to Email John Culver   Visit John Culver's homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #2

the Savage's are very nice rifles.

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fastprofessor
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Old Post January 04, 2005 23:31    Click Here to See the Profile for fastprofessor   Click here to Send fastprofessor a Private Message   Click Here to Email fastprofessor     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #3

Another vote for the savage.

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sslocal
Keeping my head down...

FALaholic # 7834

Old Post January 04, 2005 23:59    Click Here to See the Profile for sslocal   Click here to Send sslocal a Private Message   Click Here to Email sslocal     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #4

I did a bit more research and found ot the following:

Savage BVSS $488.00
Rem 700 VLS $550.00
Win Coyote $598.00
Ruger K77-VT$577.00
Howa HWR97001 - $516.00
Baretta JRTF316 $685.00

These are the lowest prices I could find on rifles that would fill the bill.
For those of you that don't know of the Boomer Shoot go
here.



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firefuzz
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Old Post January 05, 2005 00:21    Click Here to See the Profile for firefuzz   Click here to Send firefuzz a Private Message   Click Here to Email firefuzz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #5

I love my Remington, but I shot a new Savage with the Accu-Trigger about a

month ago and it was a tack driver.

Rob


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shootist87122
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Old Post January 05, 2005 01:44    Click Here to See the Profile for shootist87122   Click here to Send shootist87122 a Private Message   Click Here to Email shootist87122     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #6

Or you could have a custom match rifle built from the ground up (but for a lot more dollars). Something like a .260 Rem or 6.5X308 Ackney Improved with detachable 10 round mag is the cat's meow right now with the Precision Shooters.

Edit: If you already have a suitable action that could be rebarreled, you would be part way there.


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LV Hospice RN
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Old Post January 05, 2005 04:30    Click Here to See the Profile for LV Hospice RN   Click here to Send LV Hospice RN a Private Message   Click Here to Email LV Hospice RN     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #7

quote:
Originally posted by rob branson
I love my Remington, but I shot a new Savage with the Accu-Trigger about a
month ago and it was a tack driver.Rob



I never understood that...why would anyone use a perfectly good rifle to drive tacks...wouldn't a hammer work better?


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ThePitbullofLove
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Old Post January 05, 2005 05:15    Click Here to See the Profile for ThePitbullofLove   Click here to Send ThePitbullofLove a Private Message     Visit ThePitbullofLove's homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #8

quote:
Originally posted by LV Hospice RN


I never understood that...why would anyone use a perfectly good rifle to drive tacks...wouldn't a hammer work better?



I know...I tried it once and put all kinds of dings in my stock...


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Windustsearch
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Old Post January 05, 2005 12:49    Click Here to See the Profile for Windustsearch   Click here to Send Windustsearch a Private Message   Click Here to Email Windustsearch     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #9

If you want the super accuracy the Remington is the way to go. Savage would be the next best. I know its slightly off topic, but I knew a guy that had a Remington 700 in 7mm mag. W/o accurizing it he could do 500 yd 5 shot groups in the 3" range And I shot a buddies Savage 7mm mag once, it was very accurate at 100 yds (less than an inch), never got a chance to shoot it at longer range than that. Both were out of the box factory guns, just scoped.


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georgestrings
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Old Post January 05, 2005 13:11    Click Here to See the Profile for georgestrings   Click here to Send georgestrings a Private Message       Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #10

For consistantly building precise shooting rifles, Remington is without peer - there is a reason why Remington 700s, and varients dominate the benchrest scene - and the world record books, BTW - besides being the choice for sniping duties by both the USMC, US Army - and nearly all of the pros in law enforcement/federal agencies.... They are the easiest to customize, and ALL of the best barrel manufacturers make barrels for the 700... I've owned half a dozen or so over the years, and EVERY one of them would shoot 1MOA or better with a factory load - let alone being handloaded for - and all were BDL type sporters than I didn't bed, true, or anything other than a trigger adjustment to suit my taste...

That being said, the Savage probably offers the next closest performance(and quite possibly equal) to a Remington - and always for less money... I've shot a few Savages over the years, and all of them shot very well - I wouldn't hesitate to buy one, even though I love my 700s(still have 3 of them) - in fact, I'll probably buy one in .308 sometime in the future, unless I can come close in price with an ADL in same...

The Remington is going to have a better stock, and an excellent, adjustable trigger - while any Savage with the AccuTrigger and a stock upgrade is going to be quite capable, too...

Out of your choices, I'd pick the 700 VLS 1st, the Savage BVSS 2nd - and wouldn't give the rest any consideration...


- georgestrings



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JohninVT
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Old Post January 05, 2005 13:37    Click Here to See the Profile for JohninVT   Click here to Send JohninVT a Private Message   Click Here to Email JohninVT     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #11

Don't forget CZ. They make a heck of a rifle.


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georgestrings
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Old Post January 05, 2005 13:40    Click Here to See the Profile for georgestrings   Click here to Send georgestrings a Private Message       Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #12

quote:
Originally posted by JohninVT
Don't forget CZ. They make a heck of a rifle.



Agreed there...


- georgestrings



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sslocal
Keeping my head down...

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Old Post January 05, 2005 17:11    Click Here to See the Profile for sslocal   Click here to Send sslocal a Private Message   Click Here to Email sslocal     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #13

Thanks guys. I am convinced that I would be happier with the Remington but I am only bugeted for the Savage. I will visit the GS this weekend and see what they have to offer.


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EMDII
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Old Post January 05, 2005 18:14    Click Here to See the Profile for EMDII   Click here to Send EMDII a Private Message   Click Here to Email EMDII     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #14

Savage.

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PBR Streetgang
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Old Post January 05, 2005 18:31    Click Here to See the Profile for PBR Streetgang   Click here to Send PBR Streetgang a Private Message   Click Here to Email PBR Streetgang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #15

My Savage FPLE 20" with a BSA scope is accurate at 600 yards with 20+ year old surplus ammo. I consistantly hit a 3" circle at this range. Was next to a guy shooting a very expensive gun with $1.00 a round ammo. What a blast!

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DeFens
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Old Post January 05, 2005 18:33    Click Here to See the Profile for DeFens   Click here to Send DeFens a Private Message   Click Here to Email DeFens     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #16

I've attended the Boomershoot and the associated clinic for the past two years, and will be there again this year. It is about the only real opportunity I have for long distance rifle shooting, and I really appreciate what Joe has done in creating this event.

I've successfully used two different rifles there. My bolt gun is a Remington Sendero Stainless Fluted in 7mm STW. It's mounted with an 8-20x56 Tasco Custom Shop, side focus scope. When I'm doing my job it slaps the heck out of 6 inch targets at the max range of the Boomershoot (700 yards). The disadvantage to this rifle is that it isn't compensated. For hunting purposes the recoil from a big magnum is no big dea. But if you plan to sit for a few hours and expend possibly 80-120 rounds of ammo, even the most recoil insensitive guy is going to get tired of being slapped around. I'm definitely considering putting an Accubrake on this beast.

The rifle that works even better than the Remington is my Springfield M1A National Match. It sports a Springfield 3rd Generation 4-14x scope. I don't find that the semi has any disadvantages in the accuracy department. If you are an accurate marksman at these ranges, you'll find that you tend to miss targets by an inch or two in windage - due to variances in calling the wind. The rifle can't help you there. The big advantage of the M1A is the soft recoil and self-loading capability. You don't have to change position to fire another shot if you've missed. .308 ammo is definitely cheaper than 7mm STW (even if reloading, which I do). And .308 has plenty of oomph left to detonate targets at the farthest distances.

My shooting partner uses an Armalite AR-10(T) with excellent results.

If you want to go with a bolt gun, I'd suggest buying the less expensive Savage, and spending your savings there on the best glass you can get. A 9x scope is insufficient. The 14x on my M1A is adequate, but the 20x really is superior. You are acquiring little brown cardboard tubes of maximum diameter of 8 inches, at 700 yards. Those are little targets, a long ways away.

You'll also need a good quality spotting scope for your partner and you to trade off on, and a laser rangefinder is a good investment. Joe has a lot of good information on his website at www.boomershoot.org.



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sslocal
Keeping my head down...

FALaholic # 7834

Old Post January 06, 2005 03:13    Click Here to See the Profile for sslocal   Click here to Send sslocal a Private Message   Click Here to Email sslocal     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #17

DeFens, you have provided more information than I had hoped for. I thank you for it sir. I have requested to attend the clinic as I have little experience shooting at extended ranges.
I also had the idea of getting the Savage, since so many here are enjoying one and spending more on the glass. It just seems like the right way to go.
My brother, who talked me into this has said that I should bring along a back-up rifle as well. Something about shooting up all the missed targets. can you cast a bit of light on this for me?



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firefuzz
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Old Post January 06, 2005 03:57    Click Here to See the Profile for firefuzz   Click here to Send firefuzz a Private Message   Click Here to Email firefuzz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #18

If your still on line you might check out this auction at gunbroker.com It ends

pretty quick. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vi...p?Item=27543456

Be a good rifle and you can upgrade the glass later.


Rob


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May your rifle always shoot straight, your mag never run dry, you always have one more round than you have adversaries, and your good mate always be there to watch your back.

I'm not anti-anything...but I am PRO Christian, PRO American, and I'm not ashamed of being white.


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dougjones31
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Old Post January 06, 2005 17:57    Click Here to See the Profile for dougjones31   Click here to Send dougjones31 a Private Message   Click Here to Email dougjones31     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #19

A HB FAL should work fine. Mount a scope on it and rock and roll!!!


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Randall
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Old Post January 06, 2005 18:17    Click Here to See the Profile for Randall   Click here to Send Randall a Private Message   Click Here to Email Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #20

If you buy a Savage F for FP series rifle, Bell and Carlson makes an excellent and beautiful pillar bedded synthetic stock for $100. Check out Cabelas. They have them in both short action (.308) and long action (.36-06, 7mm Mag, etc). It changes the whole look and feel of the rifle.


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DeFens
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Old Post January 06, 2005 19:55    Click Here to See the Profile for DeFens   Click here to Send DeFens a Private Message   Click Here to Email DeFens     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #21

quote:
Originally posted by sslocal
My brother, who talked me into this has said that I should bring along a back-up rifle as well. Something about shooting up all the missed targets. can you cast a bit of light on this for me?


Glad to help. The clinic is great - actually I like it better than the shoot in some ways. Gene Econ sets steel plates all the way out to max range, and it's easier to spot your hits on steel than it is on stuff that blows up.

If you stay around until after the event is over, I believe that Joe and his crew gather up the unexploded ordnance into piles here and there for disposal. They do that from a few yards away, often with a .223 or such. I don't really know if the public is invited to that or not, since I'm generally on my way back to Seattle shortly after lunchtime.

I do bring a backup rifle though (both the Remy and the Springer). Not for cleanup, but because it's a long way to drive and not be able to shoot anything if your primary breaks. If you choose a common caliber (.308) you might be able to find someone willing to lend you their backup if you have a failure, though. It's an incredibly friendly atmosphere out there.



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sslocal
Keeping my head down...

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Old Post January 08, 2005 23:16    Click Here to See the Profile for sslocal   Click here to Send sslocal a Private Message   Click Here to Email sslocal     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #22

Spent quite awhile in the shop this weekend talking about the various rifles that were out there. Ended up getting a Savage police type rifle. Now all I need to do is get a scope and rings.


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DeFens
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Old Post January 09, 2005 01:02    Click Here to See the Profile for DeFens   Click here to Send DeFens a Private Message   Click Here to Email DeFens     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #23

Excellent choice of rifles! I'll bet it will work great.

Take a look on SWFA's close out website at www.samplelist.com - right now there's a lightly used Leupold Vari-x III 6.5-20 with fine duplex reticle for $499. It's a $700 scope. Unfortunately, it's a gloss finish. That scope would work well for the Boomershoot, although it would be prefered if it had target type adjustments. They have a few other, better Leupold choices if you had more to spend.

If you are setting the rifle up for long range use only, you might consider buying one of the fixed 16x or 20x Super Sniper models from SWFA for $299. They should work very well at a budget price. Also, although you can easily drop a fortune on billet super duper rings from Badger, et. al., I've had no problems at all with the Leupold rings I use on my scopes.

You and your friend will probably want to get your entries in fairly soon. I think it's going to fill early this year, due to more publicity and one less day of shooting. I just received confirmation on my entry. When you get there, look me up. I have the M1a with the leopard frog paint job, and my buddy and I share a custom made green tent/shelter and home-made steel and plywood benchrest. I drive a Chevy Avalanche.



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sslocal
Keeping my head down...

FALaholic # 7834

Old Post January 09, 2005 23:52    Click Here to See the Profile for sslocal   Click here to Send sslocal a Private Message   Click Here to Email sslocal     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #24

Will do DeFens. I just now received my confirmation as well. Both of my brothers have there's and we will all meet up at the shoot. I have one hell of a drive to get there but what the hell.
I really like the idea of the fixed power 16X scope but I may have to wait a couple of weeks to scrape up some more cash. Soon as I can get it together I will post some results and pics.



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fal_762x51
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Old Post January 10, 2005 00:51    Click Here to See the Profile for fal_762x51   Click here to Send fal_762x51 a Private Message   Click Here to Email fal_762x51     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #25

What about a 1919a4 or a6? Its an heavy barrel and you could have an optical sight on it ! I was just kidding, but it would be cool.


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tk421
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Old Post January 10, 2005 04:16    Click Here to See the Profile for tk421   Click here to Send tk421 a Private Message       Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #26

Go with the Savage. For what they cost, they are really something. You might try PMing garybob and asking him about the Savage he got off of me and how he likes it.

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splattermatic
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Old Post January 10, 2005 12:14    Click Here to See the Profile for splattermatic   Click here to Send splattermatic a Private Message       Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #27

if you want a straight 16 power scope, you can't go wrong here..

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...ssPageName=WDVW


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sslocal
Keeping my head down...

FALaholic # 7834

Old Post January 11, 2005 17:42    Click Here to See the Profile for sslocal   Click here to Send sslocal a Private Message   Click Here to Email sslocal     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #28

I had a talk with a fellow gun nut here at work. (He contributes to Guns and Ammo) He has opened my eyes to see beyond the match and to take into consideration what I will be doing with the rifle after its all over. For this reason I feel I need to get a variable type scope. Then of course its off to the range to figure out how it works and shoots.
Thanks again for all the help you guys have given me.

edit: for spelling



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sslocal
Keeping my head down...

FALaholic # 7834

Old Post February 14, 2005 22:57    Click Here to See the Profile for sslocal   Click here to Send sslocal a Private Message   Click Here to Email sslocal     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #29

**update with range report**
I finally got the chance to take out my new rifle and see if it works.
On the way to the Piru range here in the PRK it rained like a pig but cleared just before I got there. No wind to speak of and overcast. The range has targets out to 1000 yards but I won't be shooting that far this day.
It took about 20 rounds to sight the bugger in using milsurp port. Cleaning every round for the first few then every few rounds it would get a cleaning until about 40 rounds were ran through it.
After a few rounds the 200 yard gong became boring. so I went to the 300 yard gong. Still boring so out to the 400 yard gong. This needed a bit more skill but I was able to hit it every time still. So, out to the 600 yard ram. once I figured out how it all worked I was able to hit it almost every time. I tried the 700 yard manhole cover but by then my shoulder was begining to hurt. I didn't think there was much point in making myself flinch so I packed it up and went home.
All in all I ran 120 rounds through it and had a great time doing it. I just wish I had brought more guns with me.
I look forward to the boomer shoot and hope to be half as good as some of the other folks that will be there.



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Artful
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Old Post February 15, 2005 04:02    Click Here to See the Profile for Artful   Click here to Send Artful a Private Message   Click Here to Email Artful     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #30

Two words - Sissy Bag - take along a bag of lead shot and but it between you shoulder and the butt - I can shoot all day with my .375 Weatherby Mag like that - with out I'm flinching before the end of the second box of ammo.

Sounds like you got a winner, have fun and be safe.



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splattermatic
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Old Post February 15, 2005 04:45    Click Here to See the Profile for splattermatic   Click here to Send splattermatic a Private Message       Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #31

so fill us in on what you ended up getting for a scope...

sounds like you got a real shooter there..good job !!


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Jack2427
Member

FALaholic # 16435

Old Post February 15, 2005 14:46    Click Here to See the Profile for Jack2427   Click here to Send Jack2427 a Private Message       Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #32

Just a thought:

I do own 2 700s, both slightly improved (triggers), a 223 w/26" and a fluted 20" in 308. Both tactical rifles. Couldn't ask for better. I have a co-worker (currently working in sandland as LE/Security trainer) who has a Savage. For the money I have to admit that the Savage is great, the accutrigger is so good that it makes anyone look good with trigger work.

My choice for here is a DSA FAL medium countour w/ a 6X Weaver-a really rugged scope. It will not compete with either 700 or Savage on the range, but I can promise you that out to 800 meters I own anything I can see.
Too bad about the FAl trigger. It might not be too bad for the range if only I could get a good trigger pull.

If you can get the 700 go for it, but you will not be ashamed or handicapped by the Savage, you can just get more easily applied mods for the 700.


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sslocal
Keeping my head down...

FALaholic # 7834

Old Post February 15, 2005 18:01    Click Here to See the Profile for sslocal   Click here to Send sslocal a Private Message   Click Here to Email sslocal     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #33

I took a friend to the range with me. He was shooting a Rem. 700 heavy in .308. Very nice rifle with lots of custom work done to it. However it did not shoot any better than the Savage. It just looked better and worked smoother.
I was really torn in my choice of scope. I wanted a leopold but cash is a bit short. So I hunted around and found a closeout on BSA cateye scope. I picked up the 4-16x50mm unit mounted on Leopold rings and base. Mounted easy and zeroed nicely. It is a bit large but I am sure I won't be suffering.
Now I just need to practice, practice, practice.



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sslocal
Keeping my head down...

FALaholic # 7834

Old Post May 09, 2005 23:25    Click Here to See the Profile for sslocal   Click here to Send sslocal a Private Message   Click Here to Email sslocal     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #34

DeFens,
I looked for you at the shoot but could not remember the discription of yourself or your truck. You may remember me from the clinic. Maj. Econ called us the Haynes brothers?
In any event we had a great time and managed to hit stuff I did not think we could. Lots of folks and lots of booms. We hope to go next year with better ammo and a good idea of what to expect.



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