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The FAL Files Forums  »  Weapons Discussion » Gunsmithing & Build It Yourself » Forster Clymer headspace gage gauge - how to deal with these differing sizes
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Topic: Forster Clymer headspace gage gauge - how to deal with these differing sizes
LarryLove
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FALaholic # 108

Old Post May 22, 2002 00:11    Click Here to See the Profile for LarryLove   Click here to Send LarryLove a Private Message   Click Here to Email LarryLove     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #1

I've searched the archives on this one, and now I'm thoroughly confused... Please help clarify this issue if you can.

Forster is ~.002 shorter than Clymer, the brand preferred for headspacing for 7.62 NATO. So, do I set headspace with the Forster guage per instruction, but SUBTRACT .002 from my pin gauge measurement to get the corresponding Clymer measurement? That is, just adding .002 of theorhetical chamber space to compensate for the shortness of the Forster gauge?

For example, I drop in my 1.630 Forster GO gauge, insert my .260 pin guage, and it closes. I drop in my Forster 1.634 NO-GO guage, and it doesn't close. Do I now Subtract that .002 from my .260 pin gauge measurement to make up for the Forster/Clymer difference to get .258??

Then, if I have this right, I select a .259 locking shoulder to account for the setback?

Hopefully I've phrased all this properly. Basically, I'd like to know if I have the right method for setting to 1.632 with Forster gauges. Thanks all.


Last edited by W.E.G. on September 27, 2002 at 22:27


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Bruce Allen
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Old Post May 22, 2002 00:21    Click Here to See the Profile for Bruce Allen   Click here to Send Bruce Allen a Private Message       Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #2

check this website at Brownells.
The have Forster guages in .001" increments that you can order individually.
Just order the ones you want like a 1.631 for NATO go and 1.636 for No go gauge.
If you get dealer price they are $15 each.

http://www.brownells.com/Product/index.asp



Last edited by Bruce Allen on May 22, 2002 at 00:24


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Snakeshot
Curio & Relic

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Old Post May 22, 2002 00:39    Click Here to See the Profile for Snakeshot   Click here to Send Snakeshot a Private Message   Click Here to Email Snakeshot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #3

Methinks people tend to way overcomplexify this issue.
0.002 is a large setback number

If you want 1.632 (what I like):
Easy close on go. (1.630)
No close on no go (1.634) Add .001 for setback, you are still tight and right.

Always check it after build for safety's sake.


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LarryLove
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FALaholic # 108

Old Post May 22, 2002 00:44    Click Here to See the Profile for LarryLove   Click here to Send LarryLove a Private Message   Click Here to Email LarryLove     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #4

Actually, I was using .001 as a setback measurement. .002 to account for the difference in the two gauges.

Bruce, thanks for the link, but all I see at Brownells are:
319-308-630 1.630 GO
319-308-634 1.634 NO GO
319-308-638 1.638 FIELD
http://www.brownells.com/Product/pr...43&CategoryID=0

I don't see any .001 increments available.



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LarryLove
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Old Post May 22, 2002 00:48    Click Here to See the Profile for LarryLove   Click here to Send LarryLove a Private Message   Click Here to Email LarryLove     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #5

quote:
Originally posted by Snakeshot

If you want 1.632 (what I like):
Easy close on go. (1.630)
No close on no go (1.634) Add .001 for setback, you are still tight and right.



That seems very simple compared to what I've read. Most everyone is hemming and hawing over the different specs for the gauges. This is quick and easy and works with the gauges I was getting bent-out-of-shave over because they weren't the proper spec.

When you say adding .001 for setback... did I have that right in my original post? That is, if your pin gauge reads (for example) .260, you would choose a .261 LS? Thanks.



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Snakeshot
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Old Post May 22, 2002 01:00    Click Here to See the Profile for Snakeshot   Click here to Send Snakeshot a Private Message   Click Here to Email Snakeshot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #6

LarryLove,
What is the nature of you receiver?
That is where the difference lies.


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Bruce Allen
Entrepreneur

FALaholic # 186

Old Post May 22, 2002 01:09    Click Here to See the Profile for Bruce Allen   Click here to Send Bruce Allen a Private Message       Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #7

Lets try this address:

http://www.brownells.com/Product/pr...64&CategoryID=0

That the correct address.

I forgot to add I got 3 forster gauges last week - the NATO go, no go and field gauge.
$45.
Had them in 3 or 4 days. I was impressed with the shipping spead and the product looks just fine.


Last edited by Bruce Allen on May 22, 2002 at 01:17


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LarryLove
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Old Post May 22, 2002 02:06    Click Here to See the Profile for LarryLove   Click here to Send LarryLove a Private Message   Click Here to Email LarryLove     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #8

quote:
Originally posted by Snakeshot
LarryLove,
What is the nature of you receiver?
That is where the difference lies.



Imbel, natch. Thus I'm not expecting too much setback.

What about my example calculations? Do have it right?


Last edited by LarryLove on May 22, 2002 at 02:09


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Snakeshot
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Old Post May 22, 2002 20:09    Click Here to See the Profile for Snakeshot   Click here to Send Snakeshot a Private Message   Click Here to Email Snakeshot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #9

Sounds good, LarrryLove.

Since it is an IMBEL, I wouldn't even worry about setback-it may, it may not.

Definitely check headspace after installing locking shoulder and again after break in.

1.632 may be tighter than some like, but it is quite safe and I believe it helps accuracy.


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LarryLove
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FALaholic # 108

Old Post May 23, 2002 03:53    Click Here to See the Profile for LarryLove   Click here to Send LarryLove a Private Message   Click Here to Email LarryLove     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #10

GP recommends 1.632, and believe it or not that's what I was trying to go for with my convoluted math in the initial post.

I gave up worrying about the differences in the gauges and bought the Forsters from Brownell's online. Thanks for smoothing out my confusion.



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Bandit
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Old Post May 23, 2002 05:00    Click Here to See the Profile for Bandit   Click here to Send Bandit a Private Message   Click Here to Email Bandit   Visit Bandit's homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #11

Unless I'm totally reading this thread wrong, Brownells does indeed offer the Clymer headspace gauges you seek:

http://www.brownells.com/Product/pr...17&CategoryID=0

However the "inexpensive" alternative would be the advice you have already received above: Forster 1.632 Match (Go) @ $22.50 and 1.634 (No-Go) @ $20.50 -VS- Clymer Go/No-Go gauges @ $30.00 Ea.

I've been searching to find the best deal on this stuff also since I too will need gauges for the two kits I plan to build. Sure wish I could get dealer price but since I can't, I think I'll go the Forster route.

Now... Where to find pin guages... any ideas??


Rick


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LarryLove
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FALaholic # 108

Old Post May 23, 2002 05:30    Click Here to See the Profile for LarryLove   Click here to Send LarryLove a Private Message   Click Here to Email LarryLove     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #12

quote:
Originally posted by Bandit

Now... Where to find pin guages... any ideas??

Rick



Rick,

I ordered mine online two nights ago from MSC and they arrived today.

Check out this thread,
Tells you everything you need to know. I ordered every other one, not all of them.

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/show...&referrerid=108

See the second post in the thread, by Phil. He lists all the part numbers. Go to the MSC website, punch in those numbers, and voila.


Last edited by LarryLove on May 23, 2002 at 05:32


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Bandit
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FALaholic # 6267

Old Post May 23, 2002 06:10    Click Here to See the Profile for Bandit   Click here to Send Bandit a Private Message   Click Here to Email Bandit   Visit Bandit's homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #13

SUPER!!!! Thanks for the link.. My search for "pin gauge" didn't bring up that thread, guess I shoulda used different variations on the spelling. Thanks for saving me some time!!! I'll be putting in my order for some tomorrow. Check that... They are on order NOW!!! Was super easy having the part numbers from the link you posted.

Thanks again,

Rick


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Last edited by Bandit on May 23, 2002 at 06:59


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Looney Tunes
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FALaholic # 4328

Old Post May 23, 2002 14:24    Click Here to See the Profile for Looney Tunes   Click here to Send Looney Tunes a Private Message   Click Here to Email Looney Tunes     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #14

i got my forster headspace gauges (gages?) at www.lockstock.com for $13.75 each plus reasonable shipping cost.

i found them under gunsmithing / forster with the description of
"Forster Headspace Gage for Rimless Calibers" in case this is helpful.



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Bandit
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FALaholic # 6267

Old Post May 23, 2002 22:05    Click Here to See the Profile for Bandit   Click here to Send Bandit a Private Message   Click Here to Email Bandit   Visit Bandit's homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #15

OUTSTANDING!!!! (He says, as he backflips through the forum) You just saved me about 15 bucks on Forster gauges(gages?)!! I knew I could rely on you guys to steer me in the right direction.

Muchos Gracias,

Rick


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Radio
10 Years on the Files

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Old Post May 23, 2002 23:24    Click Here to See the Profile for Radio   Click here to Send Radio a Private Message   Click Here to Email Radio     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #16

I agree, it's not as hard as many folks might worry it is. I'll try to cover as many bases for you here as I can think of.

1.630" Forster GO
1.630" Winchester .308 minimum
1.6315" NATO 7.62 minimum
1.632" Clymer GO
1.634" Forster NO-GO
1.636" Clymer NO-GO
1.638" Forster FIELD
1.638" Winchester .308 maximum
1.640" Clymer FIELD
1.640" NATO 7.62 maximum

Factoring in SETBACK will make your initial pin gage/sizing rod thickness GROW by .001" because the locking shoulder will move away from the chamber, "set back," and thus require a thicker gage/rod (or locking shoulder) to return to the same headspace dimension you started with.

(People who are smarter than me seem to think that introducing firing pressure into a just-assembled rifle, in addition to affecting the locking shoulder, also seats the threaded barrel into the receiver. It usually all adds up to about .001" anyway.)

* Your bolt closes with two-thumbs pressure on a .262" pin/rod
* To account for "setback" ADD .001"
* Correct pin/rod will now be .263"
* This is true regardless of which brand of headspace gauges you are using.

CLYMER GAUGES: Clymer GO is 1.632"; add the .001" for setback and you're done, the rifle's headspace is set at 1.632".
FORSTER GAUGES: Forster GO is 1.630"; in this case, add your .001" setback compensation THEN SUBTRACT .002" to set the rifle's headspace at 1.632".

If for some reason you want to resist conventional wisdom and set your rifle's headspace larger than 1.632", take the difference between your target figure and whatever gauge you're using and SUBTRACT from your nominal pin gage/sizing rod/locking shoulder reading, again after first ADDING .001" for setback.
EXAMPLE:
* Your bolt closes on two-thumbs pressure on a .260" pin/rod
* ADD .001" for setback, equals .261"
* You are using a Forster GO gauge, 1.630"
* You'd like a 1.634" headspace
* SUBTRACT .004" from .261", equals .257" locking shoulder.

Probably more people use the Forster set than the Clymer. What perhaps contributes to confusion is that +.001 -.002 = -.001, so builders are constantly trying to remember if that's PLUS .001 or MINUS .001 to get where they're trying to go. If you do it the long way, you'll always get it right. SETBACK GROWS THE LOCKING SHOULDER READING BY .001".

I didn't know about Lockstock back in "olden times;" I paid $16.95 each for my Forster gauges at Bushmaster. My Clymer gauge, of course, cost a lot more and I have yet to see a good deal on those.

--Radio

--------------------

"Very damaged. Zathras can never have anything nice." --Zathras, Babylon 5



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Bandit
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Old Post May 24, 2002 00:36    Click Here to See the Profile for Bandit   Click here to Send Bandit a Private Message   Click Here to Email Bandit   Visit Bandit's homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #17

Radio,

IMO your post is the easiest to understand (Even for my thick skull) I've seen on this topic. I printed it out for future references.

Thanks,

Rick


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Bandit's Home Gunsmithin'
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Last edited by Bandit on May 24, 2002 at 00:38


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LarryLove
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Old Post May 24, 2002 04:51    Click Here to See the Profile for LarryLove   Click here to Send LarryLove a Private Message   Click Here to Email LarryLove     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #18

Thanks Radio! Exactly the kind of details I was hoping for when starting this thread.


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Rebel X
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Old Post February 05, 2003 01:12    Click Here to See the Profile for Rebel X   Click here to Send Rebel X a Private Message       Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #19

Most excellent post !
Radio NAILED it



Last edited by Rebel X on February 05, 2003 at 01:15


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