german flecktarn flack vest

kychas · July 02, 2009, 19:02

I have bought 2 of these
vest and moved the inserts from second into the first. the tests show that they are of the IIA?level, what would the level be if it is doubled up?
I plan on getting some hard plates for it of the IIIA level but that may take some time.

lawdog · July 02, 2009, 19:39

This has been discussed numerous times. These vests are for flak, which is shrapnel. They do not stop ballistic projectiles. Do not use it as a bullet proof vest. You will spring a leak if shot while wearing it. They are not cheap alternatives to bullet proof vests.

gman · July 02, 2009, 20:00

Quote:

Originally posted by lawdog
This has been discussed numerous times. These vests are for flak, which is shrapnel. They do not stop ballistic projectiles. Do not use it as a bullet proof vest. You will spring a leak if shot while wearing it. They are not cheap alternatives to bullet proof vests.

Now that is an understatement if I ever saw one. LMAO!!

molonlabe texan · July 02, 2009, 20:09

Stop what you're doing and start over.

RG Coburn · July 02, 2009, 21:31

As Sham-Wow Vince sez..."they're made in Germany,everybody knows the Germans make great stuff...."

CactusCapt · July 02, 2009, 22:06

Good thing he didn't tangle with a German prostitute!!!

onebigelf · July 03, 2009, 08:07

I know that people have tested them and successfully stopped 9mm (some of the time), 40 S&W, and 45ACP. As others here have noted they are still not a bullet-proof vest. Better than wearing nothing? Sure. I have one and its comfortable. There is a site where you can order old kevlar panels for "testing" for about $25 and I plan on sewing a set into the inside of my flectarn as added insurance. I may add a plate carrier and plate at some point. It beats wearing a t-shirt, but don't think it makes you invincible. It's still not the equivalent of a real $300-$500 body armor set. Doesn't mean it's not worth doing if that what you can afford.

JMO

John

kychas · July 03, 2009, 08:26

I opened up a shoulder insert and counted 14 layers of Kevlar.
I am going to fire NATO/mil spec 9mm fmj at the shoulder insert and see if it is stoped today. I will try one layer then two.

Manedwolf · July 03, 2009, 08:39

Quote:

Originally posted by kychas
I opened up a shoulder insert and counted 14 layers of Kevlar.
I am going to fire NATO/mil spec 9mm fmj at the shoulder insert and see if it is stoped today. I will try one layer then two.

A bedspread MIGHT work as a parachute, too.

Why not just go to Galls and buy a real, new vest? I got a lightweight, extended coverage Level II with a plate carrier for $179!

Do it right, or don't do it. Why would you take a chance that something "might" work when it'll just get you killed? If you want to wear two heavy vests, just get IIIA with SAPI plates.

Artful · July 03, 2009, 09:02

Quote:

Originally posted by kychas
I opened up a shoulder insert and counted 14 layers of Kevlar.
I am going to fire NATO/mil spec 9mm fmj at the shoulder insert and see if it is stoped today. I will try one layer then two.

Here save your ammo
http://www.savvysurvivor.com/body_ar...stic_tests.htm

Quote:

"....Penetration on the vest here is not obvious but there are several exit points where bullets made it through the vest and would have injured the wearer (the vest was shot from the inside, so exit points are on the outside).

In the end, I have to consider the surplus German "Fleck" camo vests to be a bare minimum of ballistic protection which is probably equal (at best) to a level IIA or even as minimal as a level I vest. You sacrifice ballistic protection, but get a fairly high level of comfort, low cost, and of course some satisfaction on owning a military collectible.

Note, I became aware that this page has been viewed and referred to a number of times by people at a website (in German) apparently frequented by German military personnel. One person remarked (if my Babelfish translation is correct) that current policy in some German units is for troops to not wear the vest often and that they have tests which show that injuries caused by hits from a rifle may actually be made worse by the body armor. Their theory being that a normal FMJ bullet will deform and begin to tumble before exiting the vest and entering the body, therefore causing a more severe wound channel than what would be caused by a simpler in and out puncture wound common to a hit from a full power rifle shooting military FMJ ammo. I have not verified the validity of this claim, but it does sound worthy of mentioning.

For the survivalist who is looking to get at least some body armor protection on a tight budget, or who is looking to keep costs down on gear that remains in a cache and rarely used, the surplus German flack jackets remain a viable low cost option. They could, in theory, be layered under or over other protection and in a pinch can be worn under other clothing since they are thinner and more flexible than other armor. That trade-off is probably what the Germans had in mind when they issued this vest. That being a more comfortable albeit thinner vest provides more protection if it is worn than a costly and heavy vest that is left at the barracks. I would not recommend this vest, however, for serious professionals who go in harm's way as a matter of duty or intent...."

kychas · July 03, 2009, 22:55

I sacrificed two shoulder inserts (out of four) to see if a NATO 9mm fmj and a 7.62x25mm would penetrate two layers of the german flecktarn flak vest.

First the 9mm, I folded the shoulder inserts in half so there were two layers of insert and shot it from about 10 feet and had a stack of news print behind. The bullet cut threw 4 layers of the 14 on one side and pushed the other 10 into the other side, the back of the second side had a protrusion but it was as round as a 25% of a ping pong ball.

I hit the shoulder insert two times and the other shot did not stop until it was almost threw the second side, but it was one inch off of the edge and the Kevlar was disrupted and was pulled apart, I believe that the Kevlar is unsafe if hit on the edge, because it is not stitched on the cut edge of the Kevlar layers that are making up the inserts.

The 7.62x25mm fmj from a CZ52 at about 10 feet with surplus ammo.
It cut threw the first layer of the insert like butter but was stopped with the second side. The bullet did push the Kevlar threw the back cover of the insert into the news print about one inch.

7.62x25mm are known to defeat the level IIa bullet proof vests.

molonlabe texan · July 04, 2009, 09:45

Quote:

Originally posted by molonlabe texan
Stop what you're doing and start over.

**WJ-Polish Guy** · July 07, 2009, 18:18

I use it as panel carrier. I`ve got spectra shield panels for it. Will do the job as well as any $300 rags around.

July 02, 2009, 19:02	#1
kychas Registered FALaholic #: 9429 Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: west ky Posts: 159	german flecktarn flack vest I have bought 2 of these vest and moved the inserts from second into the first. the tests show that they are of the IIA?level, what would the level be if it is doubled up? I plan on getting some hard plates for it of the IIIA level but that may take some time.

July 07, 2009, 18:18	#13
WJ-Polish Guy Polak 210 Contributor FALaholic #: 137 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 4,134	I use it as panel carrier. I`ve got spectra shield panels for it. Will do the job as well as any $300 rags around. __________________ Czapayev

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July 02, 2009, 19:39	#2
lawdog Registered FALaholic #: 7773 Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,197	This has been discussed numerous times. These vests are for flak, which is shrapnel. They do not stop ballistic projectiles. Do not use it as a bullet proof vest. You will spring a leak if shot while wearing it. They are not cheap alternatives to bullet proof vests.

July 02, 2009, 20:09	#4
molonlabe texan You asked for it to be Brought.. it was. FALaholic #: 31121 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: This ain't no party... Posts: 1,068	Stop what you're doing and start over.

July 02, 2009, 21:31	#5
RG Coburn Registered FALaholic #: 27406 Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 20,001	As Sham-Wow Vince sez..."they're made in Germany,everybody knows the Germans make great stuff...."

July 02, 2009, 22:06	#6
CactusCapt Registered FALaholic #: 6743 Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 707	Good thing he didn't tangle with a German prostitute!!!

July 03, 2009, 08:07	#7
onebigelf Registered FALaholic #: 32682 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: North Central Florida Posts: 695	I know that people have tested them and successfully stopped 9mm (some of the time), 40 S&W, and 45ACP. As others here have noted they are still not a bullet-proof vest. Better than wearing nothing? Sure. I have one and its comfortable. There is a site where you can order old kevlar panels for "testing" for about $25 and I plan on sewing a set into the inside of my flectarn as added insurance. I may add a plate carrier and plate at some point. It beats wearing a t-shirt, but don't think it makes you invincible. It's still not the equivalent of a real $300-$500 body armor set. Doesn't mean it's not worth doing if that what you can afford. JMO John

July 03, 2009, 08:26	#8
kychas Registered FALaholic #: 9429 Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: west ky Posts: 159	I opened up a shoulder insert and counted 14 layers of Kevlar. I am going to fire NATO/mil spec 9mm fmj at the shoulder insert and see if it is stoped today. I will try one layer then two.

July 03, 2009, 22:55	#11
kychas Registered FALaholic #: 9429 Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: west ky Posts: 159	I sacrificed two shoulder inserts (out of four) to see if a NATO 9mm fmj and a 7.62x25mm would penetrate two layers of the german flecktarn flak vest. First the 9mm, I folded the shoulder inserts in half so there were two layers of insert and shot it from about 10 feet and had a stack of news print behind. The bullet cut threw 4 layers of the 14 on one side and pushed the other 10 into the other side, the back of the second side had a protrusion but it was as round as a 25% of a ping pong ball. I hit the shoulder insert two times and the other shot did not stop until it was almost threw the second side, but it was one inch off of the edge and the Kevlar was disrupted and was pulled apart, I believe that the Kevlar is unsafe if hit on the edge, because it is not stitched on the cut edge of the Kevlar layers that are making up the inserts. The 7.62x25mm fmj from a CZ52 at about 10 feet with surplus ammo. It cut threw the first layer of the insert like butter but was stopped with the second side. The bullet did push the Kevlar threw the back cover of the insert into the news print about one inch. 7.62x25mm are known to defeat the level IIa bullet proof vests.